Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,806 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,807,476
Pageviews Today: 2,370,474Threads Today: 489Posts Today: 9,350
03:27 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Menow
User ID: 793881
United States
10/15/2009 11:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Don't know if this jives with what Nancy has been saying but I'm sure you guys will tell me.

*****************************

Well, in that it's bullshit, yes, it fits right in with Nancy's writings.



Attribution?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12576


Somebody just posted it on the Zetatalk thread. I think they provided a link to the source.
Returner
User ID: 997
United States
10/15/2009 12:14 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Check:

www.dumbfuckbullshit.com/bullshit/morebullshit/idioticbullshi​t/crap123344.htm
George B

User ID: 758858
United States
10/15/2009 12:38 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Let me get back on track. Nancy has woven a web of her reality regarding what is really happening in our solar system. She has continually indicated that NASA is not telling the truth. For example:

“WHY NASA FAILS, THE FORCES AGAINST THEM

NASA's Missions

Why does NASA fail, so often, in its missions?
Consider that the mission is hardly what is stated to the public, but something entirely different.
Doing simple space exploration? Going to the Moon and Mars out of curiosity?
Hardly.
To discover why NASA fails, one must explore their REAL missions, which are to deny the alien presence, ie UFOs, and to support getting the elite to the Moon or to Mars to ride out the pole shift, and to snoop on Planet X and attempt to deflect Planet X from its trajectory, its passage past Earth, sure to cause a pole shift upon passage.
The cross currents of these true missions have put them into conflict with the Council of Worlds, and at times these mission statements have put NASA in conflict with itself.
In the words of the Zetas, this is the current NASA mess.”
[link to www.zetatalk.com]


My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book “Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA” by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 766491
United States
10/15/2009 01:05 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
For example:

“WHY NASA FAILS, THE FORCES AGAINST THEM

NASA's Missions

Why does NASA fail, so often, in its missions?
Consider that the mission is hardly what is stated to the public, but something entirely different.
Doing simple space exploration? Going to the Moon and Mars out of curiosity?
Hardly.
To discover why NASA fails, one must explore their REAL missions, which are to deny the alien presence, ie UFOs, and to support getting the elite to the Moon or to Mars to ride out the pole shift, and to snoop on Planet X and attempt to deflect Planet X from its trajectory, its passage past Earth, sure to cause a pole shift upon passage.
The cross currents of these true missions have put them into conflict with the Council of Worlds, and at times these mission statements have put NASA in conflict with itself.
In the words of the Zetas, this is the current NASA mess.”
[link to www.zetatalk.com]
 Quoting: George B

Well, there's your first problem. You're using ZetaTalk as your source. Nancy hasn't got the first clue about what goes on inside NASA. Getting the "elite" to the Moon and Mars? Why? Oh, yeah, to ride out a "pole shift" that didn't happen and isn't going to happen.

My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book "Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA" by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
 Quoting: George B

Richard Hoagland is entertaining...but I can't say for any certainty if there's any truth to any of his claims.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
United States
10/15/2009 01:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
 Quoting: George B


BINGO! Now you're getting it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 794600
United Kingdom
10/15/2009 01:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Let me get back on track. Nancy has woven a web of her reality regarding what is really happening in our solar system. She has continually indicated that NASA is not telling the truth. For example:

“WHY NASA FAILS, THE FORCES AGAINST THEM

NASA's Missions

Why does NASA fail, so often, in its missions?
Consider that the mission is hardly what is stated to the public, but something entirely different.
Doing simple space exploration? Going to the Moon and Mars out of curiosity?
Hardly.
To discover why NASA fails, one must explore their REAL missions, which are to deny the alien presence, ie UFOs, and to support getting the elite to the Moon or to Mars to ride out the pole shift, and to snoop on Planet X and attempt to deflect Planet X from its trajectory, its passage past Earth, sure to cause a pole shift upon passage.
The cross currents of these true missions have put them into conflict with the Council of Worlds, and at times these mission statements have put NASA in conflict with itself.
In the words of the Zetas, this is the current NASA mess.”
[link to www.zetatalk.com]


My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book “Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA” by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
 Quoting: George B


Don't confuse Nancy's bullshit with anything even remotely connected with reality.

Hoagland's stuff is almost as stupid as Nancy's.
JWD
User ID: 742074
Canada
10/15/2009 01:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Check:

www.dumbfuckbullshit.com/bullshit/morebullshit/idioticbullshi​t/crap123344.htm
 Quoting: Returner 997


;o)

Attribution when posting for all borrowed material is considered good form.

It also allows those reading to review the source material to make their own determination.

Unless of course, we are prepared to just accept on blind faith that it is all /crap123344.htm.

J.William Dell


PS:

In this particuliar case the link travels back to

Thread: Global Warming Shocking Video (Page 4)

and then to

Thread: The Truth About The Anunnaki Homeworld: Nibiru And It's Capitol "City of the One"

Original attribution - A.R. Bourdon

Menow
ThanX for the earlier clarification of your post.

JWD
Returner
User ID: 997
United States
10/15/2009 01:39 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap. Which falls right in line with all his Mars/geometry/alien civilizations claims, which are a ludicrous marriage of numerology and pure unadulterated horse shit.

And if NASA had *any* credible evidence of extraterrestrial vehicles, settlements, or technologies, they'd be talking long and loud about it. If a Mars rover uncovered half of what might be a Martian fossil, funding would no longer be an issue, and they know it.

Getting any 'insight' into the workings of NASA from the likes of Lieder and Hoagland is a bit like asking some batshit crazy astrologer about the chemical composition of Saturn's rings. the answer you get might be poetic as all Hell, but it's not going to be anything close to accurate.
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 659599
United States
10/15/2009 03:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap. Which falls right in line with all his Mars/geometry/alien civilizations claims, which are a ludicrous marriage of numerology and pure unadulterated horse shit.

And if NASA had *any* credible evidence of extraterrestrial vehicles, settlements, or technologies, they'd be talking long and loud about it. If a Mars rover uncovered half of what might be a Martian fossil, funding would no longer be an issue, and they know it.

Getting any 'insight' into the workings of NASA from the likes of Lieder and Hoagland is a bit like asking some batshit crazy astrologer about the chemical composition of Saturn's rings. the answer you get might be poetic as all Hell, but it's not going to be anything close to accurate.
 Quoting: Returner 997


>> if NASA had *any* credible evidence of extraterrestrial vehicles, settlements, or technologies, they'd be talking long and loud about it

l_aff_ass

_absurd
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
KeepingItReal

User ID: 553451
Canada
10/15/2009 03:47 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book “Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA” by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
 Quoting: George B


Well first I would ask you to examine the statement about how Richard Hoaglands work mimics what Nancy says. My observation would be that it is the other way around. Richard Hoagland has been around a lot longer than Nancy Lieder, and he is one of the sources Nancy has plagiarized to compile the body of what is known as ZetaTalk. Here is something you can try for yourself. Copy and paste entire paragraphs written by Nancy into Google. You may be surprised to find that the first google entry belongs to someone other than Nancy. I have caught her stealing the work of others several times, most recently when she was writing about a plane crash. I posted the evidence that her blurb is almost a word for word copy of an article written a full 7 days earlier and posted on the internet within hours of the crash.

Not to defend Richard Hoagland. I think he is as loony as they come. I don't disbelieve that there are black ops, but I think it's naive to think that Nasa as a whole is involved. These would probably be more in the realm of the Defense Department, the Armed Forces. I had a friend back in the 80s who was a top scientist at NASA. He was just a geeky scientist. I was in town and called him at work, he asked me to meet him there so we could have lunch. When I arrived, he met me and took me into his office. I didn't have to go through security and it looked like a pretty laid back place to work. There may be secret things going on there, but face it, they would be so secret that most of the employees wouldn't know anything about it. I would even bet that the black ops have done things that even Nasa scientists don't know about and that would make their work easier and transform the way they do things, but I don't buy into XFiles conspiracy theories where NASA is an evil cover for black ops. The guy I knew was interested in space research, he was a physicist, and he even talked freely about what he was working on at the time. No men in black followed us to lunch, but there was this gorgeous woman in black at the pub we ate at. Ah California girls LOL.

I think Hoagland entered into his line of work because there is money to be made. The XFiles was a great TV show, but it was only a show. That said, I would credit the X Files with stimulating the fervent interest in black ops, cover ups and alien disclosure in the general public.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Returner
User ID: 997
United States
10/15/2009 03:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, if you have evidence that suggests NASA is suppressing alien artifacts, please present it. In your own words please, not as a series of links to ZetaTalk or Hoagland's nonsense site or the like.

Not that you'll present any. It seems one-liners and graphic cut-n-pastes are the limits of your participation here.
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 659599
United States
10/15/2009 04:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, if you have evidence that suggests NASA is suppressing alien artifacts, please present it. In your own words please, not as a series of links to ZetaTalk or Hoagland's nonsense site or the like.

Not that you'll present any. It seems one-liners and graphic cut-n-pastes are the limits of your participation here.
 Quoting: Returner 997


It's not about "presenting evidence" - it's about taking seriously your assertion that NASA can't keep a secret, and that NASA employees would ignore their oaths, and/or non-disclosure agreements in massive numbers and blab to everyone everywhere about what they've seen, heard, read, or experienced; that compartmentalization is "myth"; that "disinformation" of any kind is never disseminated by either NASA, the defense establishment, or "any" arm of government, etc.

**THAT** is what I "laugh" at, and call TOTALLY ABSURD.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
KeepingItReal

User ID: 553451
Canada
10/15/2009 04:20 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, if you have evidence that suggests NASA is suppressing alien artifacts, please present it. In your own words please, not as a series of links to ZetaTalk or Hoagland's nonsense site or the like.

Not that you'll present any. It seems one-liners and graphic cut-n-pastes are the limits of your participation here.


It's not about "presenting evidence" - it's about taking seriously your assertion that NASA can't keep a secret, and that NASA employees would ignore their oaths, and/or non-disclosure agreements in massive numbers and blab to everyone everywhere about what they've seen, heard, read, or experienced; that compartmentalization is "myth"; that "disinformation" of any kind is never disseminated by either NASA, the defense establishment, or "any" arm of government, etc.

**THAT** is what I "laugh" at, and call TOTALLY ABSURD.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Returner
User ID: 997
United States
10/15/2009 04:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
LOL, Max, you never fail to amuse!

Non-disclosure agreements. Snork. Sorry, that was me spewing coffee all over my keyboard.


And as I predicted, you failed to produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your ludicrous claims.

Good trolling there son!
Returner
User ID: 997
United States
10/15/2009 04:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I think Max's thought processes must work like this:

He believes (never mind why, maybe Nancy told him) the Solar System is littered with derelict alien craft, alien structures, alien trash heaps, and, of course, aliens.

NASA has sent probes to various places in the Solar System. NASA probes failed to report any of the aforetomentioned aliens or their copious leavings.

Therefore, quoth Max, NASA is <drumroll> suppressing THE TRUTH! And as part of that suppression, they of course muzzle all their staff.

Why they don't operate entirely in secret is a subject for thought at a later date, apparently.

That about right, Max old sock?

WILD ASSERTION --> SILLY ASSUMPTION --> ARRIVE AT HIDDEN TRUTH.
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 06:13 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Let me get back on track. Nancy has woven a web of her reality regarding what is really happening in our solar system. She has continually indicated that NASA is not telling the truth. For example:

“WHY NASA FAILS, THE FORCES AGAINST THEM

NASA's Missions

Why does NASA fail, so often, in its missions?
Consider that the mission is hardly what is stated to the public, but something entirely different.
Doing simple space exploration? Going to the Moon and Mars out of curiosity?
Hardly.
To discover why NASA fails, one must explore their REAL missions, which are to deny the alien presence, ie UFOs, and to support getting the elite to the Moon or to Mars to ride out the pole shift, and to snoop on Planet X and attempt to deflect Planet X from its trajectory, its passage past Earth, sure to cause a pole shift upon passage.
The cross currents of these true missions have put them into conflict with the Council of Worlds, and at times these mission statements have put NASA in conflict with itself.
In the words of the Zetas, this is the current NASA mess.”
[link to www.zetatalk.com]


My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book “Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA” by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?
 Quoting: George B



Care to show me where I claimed to be a NASA insider? I simply said I was an aerospace professional. Never worked for NASA but been involved in a lot of NASA programs. Either you are a fool or a liar. Which is it?

As for the Hoagland questions:

1. He got some of the dates right, aside from that? Very little is reality as the world knows it.

2. Is there a public NASA space program? Of course. Is English not your native language?

Black programs? They have existed in the past, there is little reason to believe they do not exist now. But a black NASA program? No. Black military programs? In all probability, but since I have no need to know I can do no more than speculate.

3. Nope. Finding an ancient civilization would cause the NASA budget to soar. Why keep it secret? And don't give me that "people will panic" crap. There are how many TV shows, radio programs and literature saying the aliens are here and there seems to be a lack of panic.

4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.

Judging by his book sales he has failed miserably.

5. Probably. But just as good an explanation is that they are just conmen or idiots. Both fit the observed facts.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 06:15 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, if you have evidence that suggests NASA is suppressing alien artifacts, please present it. In your own words please, not as a series of links to ZetaTalk or Hoagland's nonsense site or the like.

Not that you'll present any. It seems one-liners and graphic cut-n-pastes are the limits of your participation here.


It's not about "presenting evidence" - it's about taking seriously your assertion that NASA can't keep a secret, and that NASA employees would ignore their oaths, and/or non-disclosure agreements in massive numbers and blab to everyone everywhere about what they've seen, heard, read, or experienced; that compartmentalization is "myth"; that "disinformation" of any kind is never disseminated by either NASA, the defense establishment, or "any" arm of government, etc.

**THAT** is what I "laugh" at, and call TOTALLY ABSURD.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***



Have any proof of that non disclosure agreement? Of course not, it is just another zetatwit lie that you swallowed now you want others to be as gullible as you.

Get a life, SockyMelferMax.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 795021
United Kingdom
10/15/2009 06:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max, if you have evidence that suggests NASA is suppressing alien artifacts, please present it. In your own words please, not as a series of links to ZetaTalk or Hoagland's nonsense site or the like.

Not that you'll present any. It seems one-liners and graphic cut-n-pastes are the limits of your participation here.


It's not about "presenting evidence" - it's about taking seriously your assertion that NASA can't keep a secret, and that NASA employees would ignore their oaths, and/or non-disclosure agreements in massive numbers and blab to everyone everywhere about what they've seen, heard, read, or experienced; that compartmentalization is "myth"; that "disinformation" of any kind is never disseminated by either NASA, the defense establishment, or "any" arm of government, etc.

**THAT** is what I "laugh" at, and call TOTALLY ABSURD.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


YOU always laugh at rational statements and give credence to bullshit like Nancy's, so it's pretty obvious where your allegiance lies.
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 08:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap.


He used to claim that he "addressed the UN and NASA" on Art
Bell's show until some of us on the afa-b usenet group did
some digging and discovered that all he really did was give
a talk to an after-hours recreational club in the cafeteria
at those facilities.

He used to crow about that Angstrom medal until it was
discovered that it wasn't all that legit either, and it
was given to him by a relative and not the organization
after he lied about being the one who came up with the
idea of life on Europa.




It's not about "presenting evidence"


It never is with Zetatalk. That's why astronomers can predict
all kinds of astronomical events and Nancy can't predict a
single one.




And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.


Max has never heard of people like James Hanson.




4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.


People like Max who believe that NASA was created by German
Nazi scientists are ignoring the work of great men like Robbert
Goddard. Just before he died he got a look at the insides of
a V-2 and saw how many of the components were copies of his
design!

They also ignore that the predecessor to NASA was created
about 90 years ago.
 Quoting: DrPostman



All good points.
Folks like Chris Kraft, Hugh Dryden and Max Faget did more for space engineering than Von Braun, but he was better at PR.

Odd how they forget about NACA, no?
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
George B

User ID: 758858
United States
10/15/2009 08:08 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Care to show me where I claimed to be a NASA insider? I simply said I was an aerospace professional. Never worked for NASA but been involved in a lot of NASA programs. Either you are a fool or a liar. Which is it?

Sorry to have insulted you . . . based on your several questions and statements last night I assumed you were very knowledgeable of NASA to include details of one of their Public Relations Departments also including how their leadership utilizes them. If this is not an individual with insider information . . . what is it?
I was actually trying to have someone with knowledge of NASA to comment on Hoagland’s work. People who have no working knowledge of NASA wonder if insiders think he has any status as a scientist, whistleblower, or whatever. Sorry to have upset you, that was not my intention.

Last Edited by George B on 10/15/2009 08:09 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 766491
United States
10/15/2009 08:10 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!


Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/15/2009 08:14 PM
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
George B

User ID: 758858
United States
10/15/2009 08:21 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
My question to ‘The Commentator’ a self admitted NASA insider is the following:
In the book “Dark Mission THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA” by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara there are many theories placed forward regarding NASA that mimic Nancy’s musings.
1. Is there anything that Hoagland has to say that a NASA insider would agree with?
2. Is there a public NASA and/or a Black NASA (military only space program)?
3. Is evidence of ET civilizations ancient or present being suppressed by NASA?
4. Is NASA dominated by power groups such as the old Nazi Scientists, Masonic Orders, etc.?
5. Are Hoagland and Bara nut cases with overactive imaginations?


Well first I would ask you to examine the statement about how Richard Hoaglands work mimics what Nancy says. My observation would be that it is the other way around. Richard Hoagland has been around a lot longer than Nancy Lieder, and he is one of the sources Nancy has plagiarized to compile the body of what is known as ZetaTalk. Here is something you can try for yourself. Copy and paste entire paragraphs written by Nancy into Google. You may be surprised to find that the first google entry belongs to someone other than Nancy. I have caught her stealing the work of others several times, most recently when she was writing about a plane crash. I posted the evidence that her blurb is almost a word for word copy of an article written a full 7 days earlier and posted on the internet within hours of the crash.

Not to defend Richard Hoagland. I think he is as loony as they come. I don't disbelieve that there are black ops, but I think it's naive to think that Nasa as a whole is involved. These would probably be more in the realm of the Defense Department, the Armed Forces. I had a friend back in the 80s who was a top scientist at NASA. He was just a geeky scientist. I was in town and called him at work, he asked me to meet him there so we could have lunch. When I arrived, he met me and took me into his office. I didn't have to go through security and it looked like a pretty laid back place to work. There may be secret things going on there, but face it, they would be so secret that most of the employees wouldn't know anything about it. I would even bet that the black ops have done things that even Nasa scientists don't know about and that would make their work easier and transform the way they do things, but I don't buy into XFiles conspiracy theories where NASA is an evil cover for black ops. The guy I knew was interested in space research, he was a physicist, and he even talked freely about what he was working on at the time. No men in black followed us to lunch, but there was this gorgeous woman in black at the pub we ate at. Ah California girls LOL.

I think Hoagland entered into his line of work because there is money to be made. The XFiles was a great TV show, but it was only a show. That said, I would credit the X Files with stimulating the fervent interest in black ops, cover ups and alien disclosure in the general public.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


Good comments and credible analysis . . .

To all debunkers: People are looking at much of the information coming from multiple and unending sources which confuse them because they are not physicists, astronomers, engineers, digital photographic specialists, etc. They are being bombarded with this stuff daily from almost every information source imaginable. They are confused and many times distressed. I am looking for credible, measured answers to meet the average persons understanding. Many people have stopped trusting their government and authority at many levels. Their jobs are at risk, the world that they knew is upside down and they need help understanding. I would like to help this process . . . I think you can help.

To help people understand one needs to address the claim or evidence that has been presented by the bunkers and much like you do every day on this thread. The only difference is one must attack the most obvious or credible evidence that the bunkers use. The evidence is best condensed within a matrix with the analysis and conclusion with the sources and authority for the debunking. If you number them then you can continually reference them and update them when new information comes up. See example below:

Evidence or Claim:
#1. Planet X is causing an increase in earthquakes
Analysis: Since 1950 the US Geologic Society has cataloged etc,
Conclusion: there is no evidence which establishes a trend over known historical periods
Sources & Authority: Dr. Whatever, University of XXXX

What do you think? . . . any comments.

Last Edited by George B on 10/15/2009 09:06 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 795099
United States
10/15/2009 08:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap.


He used to claim that he "addressed the UN and NASA" on Art
Bell's show until some of us on the afa-b usenet group did
some digging and discovered that all he really did was give
a talk to an after-hours recreational club in the cafeteria
at those facilities.

He used to crow about that Angstrom medal until it was
discovered that it wasn't all that legit either, and it
was given to him by a relative and not the organization
after he lied about being the one who came up with the
idea of life on Europa.




It's not about "presenting evidence"


It never is with Zetatalk. That's why astronomers can predict
all kinds of astronomical events and Nancy can't predict a
single one.




And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.


Max has never heard of people like James Hanson.




4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.


People like Max who believe that NASA was created by German
Nazi scientists are ignoring the work of great men like Robbert
Goddard. Just before he died he got a look at the insides of
a V-2 and saw how many of the components were copies of his
design!

They also ignore that the predecessor to NASA was created
about 90 years ago.



All good points.
Folks like Chris Kraft, Hugh Dryden and Max Faget did more for space engineering than Von Braun, but he was better at PR.

Odd how they forget about NACA, no?
 Quoting: The Commentator


"As immense as that game is, there is a bigger one: Control through fear. As Werner Von Braun related to Dr. Carol Rosin, his spokesperson for the last 4 years of his life, a maniacal machine - the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex - would go from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism (the stage we find ourselves at today) to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space."

[link to educate-yourself.org]
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 08:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap.


He used to claim that he "addressed the UN and NASA" on Art
Bell's show until some of us on the afa-b usenet group did
some digging and discovered that all he really did was give
a talk to an after-hours recreational club in the cafeteria
at those facilities.

He used to crow about that Angstrom medal until it was
discovered that it wasn't all that legit either, and it
was given to him by a relative and not the organization
after he lied about being the one who came up with the
idea of life on Europa.




It's not about "presenting evidence"


It never is with Zetatalk. That's why astronomers can predict
all kinds of astronomical events and Nancy can't predict a
single one.




And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.


Max has never heard of people like James Hanson.




4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.


People like Max who believe that NASA was created by German
Nazi scientists are ignoring the work of great men like Robbert
Goddard. Just before he died he got a look at the insides of
a V-2 and saw how many of the components were copies of his
design!

They also ignore that the predecessor to NASA was created
about 90 years ago.



All good points.
Folks like Chris Kraft, Hugh Dryden and Max Faget did more for space engineering than Von Braun, but he was better at PR.

Odd how they forget about NACA, no?


"As immense as that game is, there is a bigger one: Control through fear. As Werner Von Braun related to Dr. Carol Rosin, his spokesperson for the last 4 years of his life, a maniacal machine - the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex - would go from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism (the stage we find ourselves at today) to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space."

[link to educate-yourself.org]
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Odd that the Alabama Space and rocket Center, the keeper of the Von Braun papers and archives does not know a thing about this woman being anything but a minor PR flak.

Once again StinkySockyMaxiMelfy, you believe way too much with no evidence. But that never stopped a dedicated liar and shill like you, has it?
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 09:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you had time to personally supervise your PAOs then you clearly had very little real work to do, or very little coming out of the PAO office.


I didn't say that. I said I took responsibility for what was published. I had a team of the best experts on the subject review and advise me and if my direct review was required they advised me to participate directly. I am off to bed . . . if you have other comments I will see them later.



And "responsibility for what was published" means what, exactly, and how would you apply it to NASA or any other governmental body?


It means I was the man-in-charge. If anything went wrong within my organization I was held totally responsible . . . no one else. My boss/bosses accepted no excuses . . . this is a typical environment within the government agency I worked for and for many others I interacted with. The third rail for all of us was publicity . . . especially negative press, either through act or publication. If we were going to be fired for anything it would be for not handling the press and public relation properly. My assumption is NASA was run in a similar fashion. According to you. . . my assumption is wrong. I have no way to challenge your position because I have no insight into NASA except the way everyone else has, by observation from outside the organization.
 Quoting: George B



NASA comes from a different culture than the rest of the government: An engineering organization plopped down into the middle of a bunch of bureaucrats. NASA management, when it works properly (which is not all that often anymore, sadly) works quite well, and the PAO office is simply another overhead money sink.

Seriously, you need to get some better sources, if you believe conmen and idiots, Hoaxland being an example of both, you are going to be terribly mislead, which seems to be exactly what happened to you.

Best get your tail to a good library, kid.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
George B

User ID: 758858
United States
10/15/2009 09:18 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Seriously, you need to get some better sources, if you believe conmen and idiots, Hoaxland being an example of both, you are going to be terribly mislead, which seems to be exactly what happened to you.

Best get your tail to a good library, kid.
 Quoting: The Commentator

The point is most of us do not have the knowledge or background to debunk seemingly logical, well presented, and misleading information. If you want to try to fool me regarding, biology, medicine or law I can take you on. I don't even know were to start to debunk astronomy.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
KeepingItReal

User ID: 553451
Canada
10/15/2009 09:34 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
To all debunkers: People are looking at much of the information coming from multiple and unending sources which confuse them because they are not physicists, astronomers, engineers, digital photographic specialists, etc. They are being bombarded with this stuff daily from almost every information source imaginable. They are confused and many times distressed. I am looking for credible, measured answers to meet the average persons understanding. Many people have stopped trusting their government and authority at many levels. Their jobs are at risk, the world that they knew is upside down and they need help understanding. I would like to help this process . . . I think you can help.

 Quoting: George B


I think the best advice I can give is to consider why a given person makes information public. Are they trying to sell books, do they charge for people to attend conferences, courses, cds and videos? Believe me, I have seen the proliferation of doomsayers all my life, and we are still here, the stories are the same, maybe updated to agree with popular culture of our times (ie The Matrix, X Files, Star Trek and a million other movies, works of fiction and tv). The hoax of 2012 and the false attribution of this to the ancient Mayans has just made the doom festival more intense than in past decades.

There is good information out there, but I would stay clear of the new age sites. Read them, but take it all with a half a grain of salt. The true test of any information is does it stand up to scrutiny and questions? If, as in the case of Nancy Lieder, the person expounding the theories is unwilling or unable to answer hard questions, if they ban people that don't just believe and stroke their ego, it's pretty safe to say they are full of shit.

A lot of the claims these new age doomers make are easily debunked by simple science. This is why they invent parallel conspiracy theories to hide the inadequacies. The more convoluted the better, because it distracts from the glaring inconsistencies in the material itself.

Is there dark shit in the world? Of course there is, but the only way of exposing it is to seek truth and not get sidetracked by theories that cannot be substantiated. What good is it to replace one set of lies with another?

I would also caution about painting all scientists and astronomers with the same brush. They aren't as closed minded as some of these new age flakes would have you believe. If they were, space exploration would still be science fiction, many new ideas would never have seen the light of day. The computer you read this on would never have been invented. As was pointed out above, scientists are often forced to work in a sea of bureaucracy, they are mostly apolitical people, they live for their work, they are dedicated to their chosen field of interest. It isn't their fault that the paper pushers make them look bad.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 09:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Seriously, you need to get some better sources, if you believe conmen and idiots, Hoaxland being an example of both, you are going to be terribly mislead, which seems to be exactly what happened to you.

Best get your tail to a good library, kid.

The point is most of us do not have the knowledge or background to debunk seemingly logical, well presented, and misleading information. If you want to try to fool me regarding, biology, medicine or law I can take you on. I don't even know were to start to debunk astronomy.
 Quoting: George B



You start by getting a knowledge of elementary astronomy. Lots of good books out there. Sky & Telescope magazine is very good for the advanced amateur astronomer, Astronomy magazine is good for the beginner. Look up your local astronomy club and attend a function or two. Astronomers are very chatty folks, happy to help a beginner learn.

You may want a basic introduction to physics as well. Lots of good books on that subject too, but beware, if the book does not have basic math, it is a book not designed to teach any physics.

Good luck!
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 795099
United States
10/15/2009 09:51 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap.


He used to claim that he "addressed the UN and NASA" on Art
Bell's show until some of us on the afa-b usenet group did
some digging and discovered that all he really did was give
a talk to an after-hours recreational club in the cafeteria
at those facilities.

He used to crow about that Angstrom medal until it was
discovered that it wasn't all that legit either, and it
was given to him by a relative and not the organization
after he lied about being the one who came up with the
idea of life on Europa.




It's not about "presenting evidence"


It never is with Zetatalk. That's why astronomers can predict
all kinds of astronomical events and Nancy can't predict a
single one.




And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.


Max has never heard of people like James Hanson.




4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.


People like Max who believe that NASA was created by German
Nazi scientists are ignoring the work of great men like Robbert
Goddard. Just before he died he got a look at the insides of
a V-2 and saw how many of the components were copies of his
design!

They also ignore that the predecessor to NASA was created
about 90 years ago.



All good points.
Folks like Chris Kraft, Hugh Dryden and Max Faget did more for space engineering than Von Braun, but he was better at PR.

Odd how they forget about NACA, no?


"As immense as that game is, there is a bigger one: Control through fear. As Werner Von Braun related to Dr. Carol Rosin, his spokesperson for the last 4 years of his life, a maniacal machine - the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex - would go from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism (the stage we find ourselves at today) to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space."

[link to educate-yourself.org]


Odd that the Alabama Space and rocket Center, the keeper of the Von Braun papers and archives does not know a thing about this woman being anything but a minor PR flak.

Once again StinkySockyMaxiMelfy, you believe way too much with no evidence. But that never stopped a dedicated liar and shill like you, has it?
 Quoting: The Commentator

It's called a "cover up". You must never have heard of that term. Typical baboon.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
The Commentator

User ID: 587619
United States
10/15/2009 10:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hoagland is an opportunistic whack-job and a liar to boot. I know he claims to be a 'former NASA employee,' but that's crap.


He used to claim that he "addressed the UN and NASA" on Art
Bell's show until some of us on the afa-b usenet group did
some digging and discovered that all he really did was give
a talk to an after-hours recreational club in the cafeteria
at those facilities.

He used to crow about that Angstrom medal until it was
discovered that it wasn't all that legit either, and it
was given to him by a relative and not the organization
after he lied about being the one who came up with the
idea of life on Europa.




It's not about "presenting evidence"


It never is with Zetatalk. That's why astronomers can predict
all kinds of astronomical events and Nancy can't predict a
single one.




And how do you know that all NASA employees are under non disclosure agreements and oaths? Are you an insider, Max, or are you just repeating something somebody wrote on the internet? Please do tell.


Max has never heard of people like James Hanson.




4. The Germans are either very, very elderly or they are dead. Masons? Don't think so. But if you are both as paranoid, and ignorant as Hoagland this may appear to be reasonable, but it doesn't stand up to examination. But then Hoaxland has books to sell, that is how he makes his living so it is to his advantage to tell wild stories that appeal to the mindless masses.


People like Max who believe that NASA was created by German
Nazi scientists are ignoring the work of great men like Robbert
Goddard. Just before he died he got a look at the insides of
a V-2 and saw how many of the components were copies of his
design!

They also ignore that the predecessor to NASA was created
about 90 years ago.



All good points.
Folks like Chris Kraft, Hugh Dryden and Max Faget did more for space engineering than Von Braun, but he was better at PR.

Odd how they forget about NACA, no?


"As immense as that game is, there is a bigger one: Control through fear. As Werner Von Braun related to Dr. Carol Rosin, his spokesperson for the last 4 years of his life, a maniacal machine - the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex - would go from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism (the stage we find ourselves at today) to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space."

[link to educate-yourself.org]


Odd that the Alabama Space and rocket Center, the keeper of the Von Braun papers and archives does not know a thing about this woman being anything but a minor PR flak.

Once again StinkySockyMaxiMelfy, you believe way too much with no evidence. But that never stopped a dedicated liar and shill like you, has it?

It's called a "cover up". You must never have heard of that term. Typical baboon.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***



The fact, StinkySockyMaxiMelfy, that you are a liar, shill and zetadrool is the work of either a delusional or dishonest mind can't be covered up.

But apparently you like being a liar and a shill. A smelly sockpuppet too.

You really should raise your goals, boy, going through life as a stupid, lying shill is no way to live. Perhaps you could start with improving your mind. You could use a bag of doorknobs as a target, you will have to work hard to get that smart, but somehow I don't think you will.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!

News