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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Setheory
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05/18/2010 02:05 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Is this for real ???

[link to poleshift.ning.com]



I just visited the poleshift site linked above. Have you folks read the first two rules of the site?

1. No debunking and disruption. Debunking and disruption will lead to a ban.
2. The existence of Planet X and ZetaTalk are not debatable.


Are you kdding me? This is like saying no logic allowed. It is a plea for bunk.

<shaking head>

Wow! This explains Nancy's move!


That was Nancy's original intent at the old TT-watch. She just called it 'disruption' there. It means you cannot question anything she says. It's just a little more blatantly stated on the ning.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


Yea, I know what it means.

I am going to feed you a bunch of sheet. All of the clear evidence that disproves my sheet is not allowed to be mentioned. My sheet is not debatable…you must believe my sheet even though it is not in any way logical or supported by scientific principles.

This screams of CULT.

It just amazes me how people can say “OK, I’m good with that”. I mean it truly does amaze me because I can in NO way relate to this type of mindset. This is what I find so interesting about this phenomenon…people literally throwing out logic and “real life” in exchange for what? This “exchange for what” is what I find so interesting and hard to understand. I understand what they are trading reality for and I just don’t see the attraction of it. I do feel bad for these people…I truly do, because there has to be some type of clinical affliction involved. I suppose it has to be fulfilling some need, but look at what you are giving up. Basically, you are sacrificing sanity.

I hope we were able to help at least some of the individuals who were vulnerable to this type of trap by confronting her claims with facts and logic. Personally, I would rather have her preaching here where we have the freedom to debate her claims and introduce the facts that so clearly show she is wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I've been reluctant to link to that Poleshift Ning.

In my experience, linking to or even writing the name of websites that engage in discussing certain specific allegations about Godlikeproductions results in a an automatic ban here.

Is this ning getting a pass because of Nancy's involvement?

If so, why has she been involved in discussions bashing GLP over there if she's a mod here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Because she's an old angry bat.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now? You've just ruined their lives!! lol
 Quoting: MegaMontana on Ning
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:20 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[link to www.youtube.com]
Menow
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05/18/2010 02:22 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now? You've just ruined their lives!! lol

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 949157


I think there will be a bunch of them thinking... "hmm.. I wonder what any of those debunker people would have said about this latest bit from Nancy?'
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 949157

Today we party !!! To bad The Lone Ranger is not here right now to enjoy the debunkers final success !!

Debunkers win again !
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I agree. The fact is that anyone who has drank the koolaid enough to follow her over to that site is beyond help and would not listen to reason anyway.

I say we celebrate the debunker victory!
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
rofl

[link to poleshift.ning.com]


Another Crack In The Cover-Up!

A debunking site, www.zetasquawk.com, has "gone out of business." Here is the story.

A while back, we heard that this known debunking website was stating that Zetatalk.com was misusing the word "trimester," a weak attempt to impugn the Zetatalk message (i.e., if they can't even speak English correctly, would you trust them with science?) Weak is too strong of a word actually, more like a last desperate attempt grasping at straws. Here is a screen shot: ZQ1.doc

A rebuttal was posted here [link to poleshift.ning.com] Read the blog part first (not the comments, yet).

Then a known debunker rejoined this group for the express purpose of addressing the rebuttal. As you can see, his priority was to argue the definition of the word trimester rather than help forward the purpose of this ning. He was, of course, suspended. Unfortunately, content is deleted when a member is suspended, so there are gaps in the comments. I posted what he said as the last (latest) comment so you can see

After his suspension, he thought he got the last word in by posting his rebuttal on that website. Here is a screen shot: ZQ2.doc

Now, go back to the debunking-the-debunkers blog and read the next to the last comment (the one with all the links proving three four-month divisions of a year are now in public usage as "trimesters," which was posted after the zetasquawk comment personally directed at me. Sorry, Greco, but that's the way it is.

It is now a month later, and the ever-vigilant Gerard discovered some good news. After reviewing it, I found some shocking (that it was publicized) news. Thus, Gerard and I, besides ROFLOCAO*, are pleased to announce that zetasquawk.com has been closed down, with the reason being stated as:

"UNFORTUNATELY, GOVERNMENT FUNDING WAS PULLED FOR THIS PROJECT"!!!!!!!!!!!!

a statement you can see directly on that website at www.zetasquawk.com now, if you hurry, or on this screen shot: ZQ3.doc

ZETAS RIGHT AGAIN!!!!!!!

And on May 15th, Nancy got some Zetatalk on it (see below in the Comments), and there is a new screenshot: ZQ4.doc in which the message has changed...corroborating someone is having fun at the funders' expense.

*rolling on the floor laughing our collective ... off :-D Hey, no coarse words, this is a family website!
 Quoting: Cheryl @ ning


Guess they are in for a shock when it back online. Those tards don't even realize when someone is playing a joke on them.
CharlieFrost nli
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05/18/2010 02:40 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I say we celebrate the debunker victory!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Right on !!!!


[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 02:48 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You gotta read this one fellas ... Cheryls try to justify the Zetards use of trimester ... it ends up in the claim we got it wrong and if we din't even get that right then all our debunking is worthles ... rofl ... they even banned a dude because he knew what a trimestre means ... read the comments, too.


[link to poleshift.ning.com]

Because the retards over there can roam free it is much more entertaining than Nancy here ... theres nothing more funny than a tard in his natural habitat.
Menow
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05/18/2010 02:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
BTW, nancy if you read this:

You may delete my 2 accounts over at the ning:

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

[link to poleshift.ning.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."
 Quoting: Menow 935048


Good job Menow ... did you link some of Nancys stuff to him ? I am sure he would laugh his ass off.
mclarek
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05/18/2010 03:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I do have a niggle of interest that some people say we are a LITTLE bit off: enough that shadows are a bit variable from year to year -- which to be open minded, I don't discount as absolutely having to be wrong, for very little change would have to occur for that to be slightly off.


Why are you ignoring my post from last night where I demonstrate that even a few arc-seconds of change in the NCP would be immediately obvious since all photographic telescopes on the planet would then have to adjust their rotational axes...and most are set in concrete?

The FACT is that the earth's rotational axis is extremely stable on a scale that could possibly be noticed. Note that the Chandler wobble is measured in milli-arcseconds...less than one millionth of one degree. Do you think that this is detectable by eye?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 795135


Did not see your post, I guess.

I have replied to others' comments on this -- I never said I believe in it AND I said I was only being honest in an extreme sense: that I don't TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, as a human who might be wrong even about the obvious, know.

This is called philosophical doubt. It does not mean I DON'T know in the ordinary sense; it means I always know I might be wrong in spite of everything, on things they think they know.

Ultimately, we never know anything ACTUALLY -- except, as Descartes said, that we are thinking. :)

But this is a very fine, fine point; not what you thought I meant.

And on a lower level of knowing, I also don't PERSONALLY have a sextant and pendulum and so on. If you read my posts about philosophical understanding, you'd know I didn't mean I don't "know" in the ordinary sense! I mean I am being RADICALLY questioning of myself and encouraging others to try it -- not because I don't "know" in the ordinary sense that we are not stopped. I keep saying it is not my belief/ or that I know that.

But philosophically speaking, we only ever have STRONG BELIEF, not KNOWING ... and it's important to remember ...

ONLY because most of the time we do know ... but sometimes we NEED such radical openness to discover a fact we didn't know.

Best wishes,
Clare
mclarek
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05/18/2010 03:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
AC:
If those yowosa people would be sincerely trying to save humans from doom&gloom they would not sell their stuff. This is the oldest trick in the book and that kind of racket is around for thousands of years now.

Dr.
Marshall Masters (the guy who controls Yowusa) has done this
crap before, as part of the Millennium Group trying to scare
people about Comet Lee. He's an old pro at selling things
through fear:
[link to www.2012hoax.org]
[link to yowcrooks.wordpress.com]
[link to www.skepdic.com]


Here somone just posted another example:

Thread: Survive PX, solar flares, nukes, 2012, ect. in luxury comfort. $50,000

By far the most "professional" i've seen by now. Smart thing, they don't even put out the end of the world hoaxes themself, they just refer to the plenty that are already around.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974006


I have said that the Yowusa people have flaws, but REGARDING THESE PHOTOS they make some GOOD POINTS, which the overall mistakes they make are irrelevant for.

Many of you are good at dismissing: but that is not the same thing as truly addressing ... and possibly defeating ... an argument.

If you really listen to the ANALYSIS of the South Pole Telescope images -- JUST IN CASE THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT'S VALID -- so you LEARN what the points are around the issue -- and so you can truly say you did not take your impressions too far -- and so you can know that the debunkers you listened to didn't miss something OR be paid agents (such things do exist and are worth considering) -- and so you can truly feel HONEST about your TOTAL deep knowledge, even of a subject you start off thinking is nuts, or have heard many nutty versions thereof ...

Then you will be a real jury of the ideas.

You may not wish to trust the mafia member on the witness stand -- but if the testimony has key items which dovetail with important facts of the case (even if the testimony is comingled with lies, and you also have an emotional distaste for mafia because your family was murdered by them)... you still must listen openly enough.

AND hear the cross-examination (your debunker sites) ...

But sometimes the prosecution is in fact the right perspective, no matter what your distaste for the witness AND what the cross-examiner says.

You must be open to the argument. Or you have not handled it honestly.

Clare
Menow
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05/18/2010 03:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."


Good job Menow ... did you link some of Nancys stuff to him ? I am sure he would laugh his ass off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974408


No. I didn't want to go into it.
mclarek
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05/18/2010 03:18 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."


Good job Menow ... did you link some of Nancys stuff to him ? I am sure he would laugh his ass off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974408


Thank you!

I can see that barring radical philosophical doubt, there was no anomaly in that photo. I don't believe in the "wobble" of Nancy.
AstronutModerator
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05/18/2010 03:18 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."
 Quoting: Menow 935048

That makes a lot of sense. We knew there wasn't supposed to be any bright nebulae in that area so it had to be some foreign object or light. The position of polaris with respect to earth's rotational axis is right where it should be in that image though (even when compared against an image freestore was touting as showing it had changed), so it proves the debunkers were right again!
polenochan

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 05/18/2010 03:20 PM
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Did not see your post, I guess.

I have replied to others' comments on this -- I never said I believe in it AND I said I was only being honest in an extreme sense: that I don't TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, as a human who might be wrong even about the obvious, know.

This is called philosophical doubt. It does not mean I DON'T know in the ordinary sense; it means I always know I might be wrong in spite of everything, on things they think they know.

Ultimately, we never know anything ACTUALLY -- except, as Descartes said, that we are thinking. :)

But this is a very fine, fine point; not what you thought I meant.

And on a lower level of knowing, I also don't PERSONALLY have a sextant and pendulum and so on. If you read my posts about philosophical understanding, you'd know I didn't mean I don't "know" in the ordinary sense! I mean I am being RADICALLY questioning of myself and encouraging others to try it -- not because I don't "know" in the ordinary sense that we are not stopped. I keep saying it is not my belief/ or that I know that.

But philosophically speaking, we only ever have STRONG BELIEF, not KNOWING ... and it's important to remember ...

ONLY because most of the time we do know ... but sometimes we NEED such radical openness to discover a fact we didn't know.

Best wishes,
Clare
 Quoting: mclarek 971744


No idea what you are babbling now about openess , philosophy and whatnot ... looks like this is your excuse for not having hard facts at all.

It is pretty simple:
Planet X is supposed to be a huge object that exists in the physical world and it's supposed to be in our solar-system since 2003 (Nancy said so). This means that it has to have physical effects on the rest of the solar system and our planet earth. If this claim would be true there would be hard evidence (plenty of it, undeniable by nobody on this planet, not even NASA, everyone would recognize it). There is no room for philosophical discussions about this topic, it's all about hard physical evidence.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I do have a niggle of interest that some people say we are a LITTLE bit off: enough that shadows are a bit variable from year to year -- which to be open minded, I don't discount as absolutely having to be wrong, for very little change would have to occur for that to be slightly off.


Why are you ignoring my post from last night where I demonstrate that even a few arc-seconds of change in the NCP would be immediately obvious since all photographic telescopes on the planet would then have to adjust their rotational axes...and most are set in concrete?

The FACT is that the earth's rotational axis is extremely stable on a scale that could possibly be noticed. Note that the Chandler wobble is measured in milli-arcseconds...less than one millionth of one degree. Do you think that this is detectable by eye?


Did not see your post, I guess.

I have replied to others' comments on this -- I never said I believe in it AND I said I was only being honest in an extreme sense: that I don't TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, as a human who might be wrong even about the obvious, know.

This is called philosophical doubt. It does not mean I DON'T know in the ordinary sense; it means I always know I might be wrong in spite of everything, on things they think they know.

Ultimately, we never know anything ACTUALLY -- except, as Descartes said, that we are thinking. :)

But this is a very fine, fine point; not what you thought I meant.

And on a lower level of knowing, I also don't PERSONALLY have a sextant and pendulum and so on. If you read my posts about philosophical understanding, you'd know I didn't mean I don't "know" in the ordinary sense! I mean I am being RADICALLY questioning of myself and encouraging others to try it -- not because I don't "know" in the ordinary sense that we are not stopped. I keep saying it is not my belief/ or that I know that.

But philosophically speaking, we only ever have STRONG BELIEF, not KNOWING ... and it's important to remember ...

ONLY because most of the time we do know ... but sometimes we NEED such radical openness to discover a fact we didn't know.

Best wishes,
Clare
 Quoting: mclarek 971744


Can you possibly interpret that in plain English? That's the biggest bunch of meaningless gobbledy-gook I've ever seen!
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:20 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."

That makes a lot of sense. We knew there wasn't supposed to be any bright nebulae in that area so it had to be some foreign object or light. The position of polaris with respect to earth's rotational axis is right where it should be in that image though (even when compared against an image freestore was touting as showing it had changed), so it proves the debunkers were right again!
:polenochan:
 Quoting: Astronut



Good job! What is the second photo from?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:23 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you really listen to the ANALYSIS of the South Pole Telescope images -- JUST IN CASE THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT'S VALID --
 Quoting: mclarek 971744



Again...the South Pole Telescope is NOT a visual scope. It's a sub-millimeter RADIOtelescope.
Menow
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05/18/2010 03:24 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you really listen to the ANALYSIS of the South Pole Telescope images

Clare
 Quoting: mclarek 971744


I wonder.. why do you believe those images even originated from the SPT?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:25 PM
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This is called philosophical doubt.
 Quoting: mclarek 971744


Clare, we are discussing what is supposed to be a physical object with physical properties and physical effects. Of what use is it to natter on about "philosophical doubt"? Either px exists and can be detected and measured as any other object in the universe can, or it does not. It's really as simple as that.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Good job Menow ... did you link some of Nancys stuff to him ? I am sure he would laugh his ass off.


No. I didn't want to go into it.
 Quoting: Menow 935048

I understand well .. it would be a bit embarrasing to mention Zetatalk to someone who knows a bit about astronomy. He might think you believe that crap , too.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
No idea what you are babbling now about openess , philosophy and whatnot ... looks like this is your excuse for not having hard facts at all.

It is pretty simple:
Planet X is supposed to be a huge object that exists in the physical world and it's supposed to be in our solar-system since 2003 (Nancy said so). This means that it has to have physical effects on the rest of the solar system and our planet earth. If this claim would be true there would be hard evidence (plenty of it, undeniable by nobody on this planet, not even NASA, everyone would recognize it). There is no room for philosophical discussions about this topic, it's all about hard physical evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974408



+1
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:29 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Can I join in on this cutting-edge discussion? I enjoy talking to myself as much as the next.
Menow
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05/18/2010 03:30 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."

That makes a lot of sense. We knew there wasn't supposed to be any bright nebulae in that area so it had to be some foreign object or light. The position of polaris with respect to earth's rotational axis is right where it should be in that image though (even when compared against an image freestore was touting as showing it had changed), so it proves the debunkers were right again!
:polenochan:
 Quoting: Astronut


Hey. Glad you showed up. I forgot where you had posted that comparrison. I'm guessing the LED reflected off of fingers reaching to operate the camera, or just something accidentally passing in front of the lens during the exposure.

Anyway, I had tracked down the guy, but had never actually contacted him until the image was brought up again by Clare. Team, effort on these things... doncha know!
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 03:36 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you really listen to the ANALYSIS of the South Pole Telescope images -- JUST IN CASE THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT'S VALID --
 Quoting: mclarek 971744


Specifically what "South Pole Telescope images" are you referring to?

You are aware of what that telescope actually is?

Or does your solipsism prevent even acknowledging that?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 04:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Can I join in on this cutting-edge discussion? I enjoy talking to myself as much as the next.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 767101


Sure thing.

How about Einstein-Hapgood? Don't think we've done that for a while.

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