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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
AstronutModerator
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh... I was able to track down the originator of that Polaris image that Clare was going on about. Freestore was also trying to use it to support Nancy. The guy doesn't know if he still has the original, but I asked for a copy if he can find it. One question is cleared up by this comment of his, however:

"The red is light leakage from the LED light metering system."

That makes a lot of sense. We knew there wasn't supposed to be any bright nebulae in that area so it had to be some foreign object or light. The position of polaris with respect to earth's rotational axis is right where it should be in that image though (even when compared against an image freestore was touting as showing it had changed), so it proves the debunkers were right again!
polenochan



Good job! What is the second photo from?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

Here's a copy of the original:
[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]
Freestore pulled it up as a "comparison" which showed star trails around the NCP in a much wider field, so naturally at first glance it looks like polaris didn't trail at all while the other stars did. All I did was take that image and resize it to fit the image scale of the "red picture" and rotated it till all the stars matched. As you can see, they matched just fine. In fact, because he happened to chose two photos with somewhat similar exposure times, even the lengths of the trails is similar. That just makes it all the more obvious that the pole hasn't "shifted."
astrobanner2
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now?

Today we party !!! To bad The Lone Ranger is not here right now to enjoy the debunkers final success !!

Debunkers win again !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974395



Why am I thinking of the Wizard of OZ film?...boots sticking out from under a house…midgets singing….
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hey. Glad you showed up. I forgot where you had posted that comparrison.
 Quoting: Menow 935048

Thanks! I should probably upload it to photobucket so that anyone can reference it without an enhanced account.
Anyway, I had tracked down the guy, but had never actually contacted him until the image was brought up again by Clare. Team, effort on these things... doncha know!
 Quoting: Menow

Absolutely!
astrobanner2
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You obviously don't realize how many amateur astronomers photograph the sun on a regular basis. Here are a few thousand photographs taken by users of Corondao solar telescopes...

[link to www.coronadofilters.com]

No px in sight.

I was thinking about to get one of these (if I ever have that kind of money to spare) ... I more would like a telescope to watch planets and stuff, but light pollution here is to big to do something useful with it.


Not really. The major planets are so bright that they can be seen even in major light pollution. With a GOTO telescope, the brighter planets can even be seen in broad daylight. Now, deep sky stuff is another matter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

I do almost all my observing under very light polluted skies (6 or 7 on the Bortle scale), just a shade darker than downtown orlando and with street lights all around. By eye deep sky objects are basically impossible. By astrovid camera you can detect pretty much all the Messier objects and even make some degree of "structure" on some of the brighter galaxies. Globular clusters and small planetary nebulae still look fantastic as well. Here's an example video with a globular cluster, some galaxies, and a planetary nebula.
[link to www.ustream.tv]
If you're willing to drop the extra $150 you can get a decent integrating video camera which will show you at least as much from a light polluted area as you'd see by eye from a dark sky location. The catch is that you need GOTO and good tracking capability to make it work.

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 05/18/2010 04:40 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now?

Today we party !!! To bad The Lone Ranger is not here right now to enjoy the debunkers final success !!

Debunkers win again !



Why am I thinking of the Wizard of OZ film?...boots sticking out from under a house…midgets singing….
 Quoting: Setheory 869850


I already thought of starting a thread called: "Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead!"...

I don't guess I will, tho...
Anonymous Coward
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Why am I thinking of the Wizard of OZ film?...boots sticking out from under a house…
 Quoting: Setheory 869850


He will be back ... he's the Zeterminator.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.
Anonymous Coward
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We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882391

scared
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We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882391


Yeah, it would be interesting to monitor what goes on over there, but it would lead her/them to believe there is more support than there actually is.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882391


Nancy's page hits have always been dismal, apart from May 2003!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy will retreat from this thread and declare victory for running.
Setheory
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05/18/2010 06:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.


Yeah, it would be interesting to monitor what goes on over there, but it would lead her/them to believe there is more support than there actually is.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


I think it is unfortunate because there are some folks on that site that have some genuine questions due to a certain lack of knowledge (yes, I’m being nice). A “for instance” from said site:

“I saw this question posted but no answer is given. I live in Friendswood, Texas so this will tell you the geographic area of this. For several months I have been seeing this very bright star In the heavens. North southwest. Could someone tell me what this is? It seems so low and so bright. I know all who live in this area see it.My directions probably are bad but I know it is seen and has been seen for a long time now. Everyone I ask tell me it is just a star or a planet. I dont know about that. I also see the red star (?) which I have been told is a UFO on fire. I dont know about that.”

I know it is somewhat funny…UFO on fire and such. However, there are really people out there whose lack of understanding makes them vulnerable to these beliefs, not to mention the ZetaTalk material. I think many of us have a sincere desire to educate those who genuinely have questions about these things and this is the unfortunate bit. They are on their own at “said site” and unfortunately the rules ensure their indoctrination.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 06:15 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
We'll see if Nancy comes back when her page hits are dismal.


Yeah, it would be interesting to monitor what goes on over there, but it would lead her/them to believe there is more support than there actually is.


I think it is unfortunate because there are some folks on that site that have some genuine questions due to a certain lack of knowledge (yes, I’m being nice). A “for instance” from said site:

“I saw this question posted but no answer is given. I live in Friendswood, Texas so this will tell you the geographic area of this. For several months I have been seeing this very bright star In the heavens. North southwest. Could someone tell me what this is? It seems so low and so bright. I know all who live in this area see it.My directions probably are bad but I know it is seen and has been seen for a long time now. Everyone I ask tell me it is just a star or a planet. I dont know about that. I also see the red star (?) which I have been told is a UFO on fire. I dont know about that.”

I know it is somewhat funny…UFO on fire and such. However, there are really people out there whose lack of understanding makes them vulnerable to these beliefs, not to mention the ZetaTalk material. I think many of us have a sincere desire to educate those who genuinely have questions about these things and this is the unfortunate bit. They are on their own at “said site” and unfortunately the rules ensure their indoctrination.
 Quoting: Setheory 869850


I see your point. Dont know what to think about it. On the one hand you're right. On the other hand I can't feel for someone even thinking about asking Nancy anything after reading a few pages of zetatalk.com. As long as these people are alone I don'thave a problem if they fall for Nancy. But then I see people with family over there who probably indoctrinate their children about that crap. Like he for example:

Great!!!
This thing has started a big discussion on the credibility of zetatalk again in my family, they remain still in denial and set nancy as the evil liar, but when I asked them why government would found a debunker site against "hot air", they did no anwser ;-)
I hope the coming changes will open a lot more minds, as they finally realize the zetatalk saga is real.
Greetz
 Quoting: Co S


It's in their thread about Zetaswquak being down.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: DrPostman


Whats your opinion about Nancy going over to the ning with her chat Dr. ? I for one welcome it a lot.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy is no longer doing the weekly ZetaChat on GLP, will she still be a mod?
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2010 06:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy is no longer doing the weekly ZetaChat on GLP, will she still be a mod?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 973304

Probably yes I guess. She is a good friend with the website owner. I doubt she will post much though ... maybe a little update if she made a new video or something. For the next weeks she will post a pinned thread on saturday so people who don't know yet will find their way to the ning.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy couldn't take the heat. Now, she can just pontificate all she wants to her brain-dead sheep without anyone bringing up those pesky facts that prove her wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

Well, that will only work for so long. Eventually, her die hard followers will start to wonder why "Planet X" continues to be a no show. People will generally only buy bullshit for so long before they realize they've been had.

In actuality, her moving to that ning thing really changes nothing. We can every easily copy and paste her bogus claims here and debunk it because you know that at least a few of her shills will remain here. Some of them can't help themselves and some of them are here under orders.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 05/18/2010 06:54 PM
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I just visited the poleshift site linked above. Have you folks read the first two rules of the site?

1. No debunking and disruption. Debunking and disruption will lead to a ban.
2. The existence of Planet X and ZetaTalk are not debatable.


Are you kdding me? This is like saying no logic allowed. It is a plea for bunk.

<shaking head>

Wow! This explains Nancy's move!
 Quoting: Setheory 869850

Yep, basically it means you either believe everything Nancy tells you or you're out.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
mclarek
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05/18/2010 06:44 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
For those who are not so keen to think they know everything about what they know, I will say this one final time:

Things may all be a dream. Barring that, let's say they aren't.

If we know things about the world, something is or it isn't.

But how do we know what we know about it? Could we be fooled by our own tests? Of course we could.

Normally, we are not: pendulums and so on are good tests and necessary, and so we know.

But a radical philosophical doubt admits even then that we are human, and perhaps something else is fooling us, or our instruments were flawed, etc.

Normally, this is not necessary to think. What I test for (or use my senses to know) is there; I know it.

But AS AN EXTREMELY STRONG BELIEF, not absolute knowing, technically speaking.

Now under what circumstances does this become important? Very rarely, in fact. Most of the time, that extremely strong belief is basically KNOWING.

But once in a while, being aware that we live with EXTREMELY STRONG SCIENTIFIC BELIEF, not knowing, is important to remember:

for once in a while, admitting that we don't know what we know perfectly, allows something we would not have questioned to be questioned and turn out to be different.

I admit it's rare when such radical questioning is useful, in ordinary circumstances (as with the rather clear case showing we are not stopped in rotation -- but technically speaking we know nothing ever for certain though); but it is important to admit it to oneself, just in case something absolutely unthought-of is trying to get across to you and you DID miss some aspect of knowing.

Such as in the case of the South Pole Telescope and Vatican purported photos of PX ...

They may be fake or real, but no-one has properly handled all the issues raised about them by the pro-PX crowd. No, your debunking sites didn't.

So, in being less sure to start with, i.e., remembering you are human and could be wrong even where it's unlikely, you might find an interesting set of issues. And if any among you want to see if there is any evidence for PX and where it might be -- minus the stopped-Earth or wobbly-Earth of Nancy -- you will want to doubt your positon enough to look hard at the arguments about these photos and the SOHO photos.

The debunkers do not have complete answers here. I have checked.

By the way, on philosophical doubt, even radical doubt:

This is not rambling; it is explication (laying out/unfolding) of the necessary principles upon which our deepest insights come.

And when I say I know and agree with you about the non-stoppage of the Earth, and then say that TECHNICALLY I don't know ... it is this radical honest doubt which I am appealing to, not ordinary doubt, and stupid ignorance of the points made showing that the Earth isn't stopped.

And also when I cover the openness you require to look into the questions of the PHOTO ANALYSIS -- and not rely only on debunking sites which do NOT cover all aspects of those photos -- I am saying that if you could go to the level where even what you know to be true is humbly your deep belief (scientific belief) to the point of knowing, then you can come back and surely less strenuously be able to question the photos more honestly.

No-one has handled the photo evidence here thus far in these pages. Someone should take the time and effort, and not rely whole-hog on the debunker sites. They have not handled all objections.

Good luck. Have fun. Question ... and let's see if anyone can FULLY argue about the many points raised by these photos.

Clare
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now? You've just ruined their lives!! lol
 Quoting: MegaMontana

Not hardly. As long as Nancy continues to spew bogus claims, I will continue to point out how and why she is wrong. The only ones who will end up with ruined lives are those who believed her and wasted a lot of time and money on something that never happened.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now?

Today we party !!! To bad The Lone Ranger is not here right now to enjoy the debunkers final success !!

Debunkers win again !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974395


You called?
mclarek
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05/18/2010 06:54 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I just visited the poleshift site linked above. Have you folks read the first two rules of the site?

1. No debunking and disruption. Debunking and disruption will lead to a ban.
2. The existence of Planet X and ZetaTalk are not debatable.


Are you kdding me? This is like saying no logic allowed. It is a plea for bunk.

<shaking head>

Wow! This explains Nancy's move!

Yep, basically it means you either believe everything Nancy tells you or you're out.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


I think she believes it is known to be true, and so wants to move the discussion on to other aspects: aspects of preparation and so on (action).

You want to be philosophically doubtful here and she does not.

But you are not doubtful of your own position, which is therefore not mere doubt in PX, and search for the truth.

I want you to be philosophically doubtful enough, though, to look at your own self-styled "questions" and ask if you really are always asking ALL questions; or if your doubt of her points is in fact cloaking over-confidence in an anti-position. This would mean you are in fact convinced before you start lookin, that PX is not so. I submit there are some possible suggestions of PX in these images, which need to be handled fully.

Clare
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If Nancy is no longer doing the weekly ZetaChat on GLP, will she still be a mod?

Probably yes I guess. She is a good friend with the website owner. I doubt she will post much though ... maybe a little update if she made a new video or something. For the next weeks she will post a pinned thread on saturday so people who don't know yet will find their way to the ning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 889663


Oh... I think she'll hit GLP with all her new releases, as usual. I don't know that she will be allowed to totally pimp the ning from here. Remains to be seen what the relationship will be.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You called?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974609

?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You want to be philosophically doubtful here and she does not.
 Quoting: mclarek 971744

No, we are scientifically doubtful.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What are people like Menow, Circuit Breaker, Dr. Postspam, and the robot Lone Ranger going to do with their time now? You've just ruined their lives!! lol

Not hardly. As long as Nancy continues to spew bogus claims, I will continue to point out how and why she is wrong. The only ones who will end up with ruined lives are those who believed her and wasted a lot of time and money on something that never happened.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


Yes this is totally correct, CB.

And I even have examples of the reality of people's lives being "ruined" due to their "belief" in the zetacult. Quite sad indeed.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You called?

?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974395


It is I.
Circuit Breaker

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And just isn't the cult like following of ZetaTalk. How many people have died while following other doomsday style cults?
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
mclarek
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05/18/2010 07:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And on a lower level of knowing, I also don't PERSONALLY have a sextant and pendulum and so on.

Make one of your own and do your own observing:

 Quoting: DrPostman


Thank you! I believe you though. I "know" that the pendulums are normal. It was only admitting that we are all human, and even where we know, we MIGHT not know, that I was pointing out.

Einstein's work "corrected" Newton's ... but Newton's was fine and most things we come to see as "hints of Einstein's" were "just within a margin of error" -- until Einstein said, no, there's a whole bigger determinative structure of thought and reality going on here.

So I am saying that we never for sure can say we know, even when we do. This is an abject humility, NOT a dismissal of what you and I normally mean by knowing.

In ordinary terms, yes, I know there's no stoppage.
But radically speaking, I know I MIGHT be wrong, and so could all our perceptions.

That's all.

It keeps one humble; and in these circumstances, it's not important probably; but it keeps one's mind and humility limber ... for about other aspects of the PX claims it is important. Such as the images.

If you really listen to the ANALYSIS of the South Pole Telescope images -- JUST IN CASE THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT'S VALID --

And that's just the point! There are no "images" because
it isn't an optical scope. It measures the heat signaturs
from the earliest time of our universe. It's purpose isn't
to look for anything nearby. And anything South of the
Equator can see the same thing as the SPT does, it's just
that the humidity is so low that those heat images can be
seen better. Paranal in Chili would be able to view anything
that the SPT could. At one point Masters tried to claim
that the South Pole was the only location you could view
PX until it was pointed out to him how stupid that is.

Again...the South Pole Telescope is NOT a visual scope. It's a sub-millimeter RADIOtelescope.

You try telling them that and all they can do is lala
 Quoting: DrPostman


This in fact shows you have not done your research into the claims.

They talk of how it's false-colour.

They discuss the resultant COLOURED AND VISUAL images.

:)

The Vatican one I think was optical. But maybe not, I don't remember. Been a while since I looked into that issue.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare
 Quoting: mclarek 971744

You do realize that Nibirushock2012 admitted that he pulled a hoax, do you ?

[link to yowcrooks.wordpress.com]

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