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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Anyway, Menow, seriously: they would see MORE of the Dark Side than we can. But not from all sides, such as Earth does of us.


You tried to use the fact that a person had never seen all sides of the Moon to prove it doesn't rotate. Then why doesn't the fact that someone HAS seen all sides of the Moon prove it DOES rotate?


Silly!
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


I see you are going to ignore my point.

Sigh. Why bother?

It doesn't revolve around its own axis, in diurnal motion around the Earth RELATIVE TO EARTH, its orbital centre axis. (Well, the barycentre, technically.)
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


There is no such thing as "in diurnal motion around the Earth RELATIVE TO EARTH, its orbital centre axis", so your answer is meaningless.

(snip repetition of related blather based on the same meaningless 'concept')

The Moon does not revolve diurnally relative to the Earth; thus it is not comparable with what the Earth or Venus do, relative to the Sun.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


There is no such thing as "revolve diurnally relative to the Earth", therefor you statement is meaningless.
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Here's what you said, which was in AGREEMENT with my point (and Nancy's) about "spin on its axis" in its own right, which is diurnal-type rotation ...


So are YOU claiming that the Moon has no diurnal rotation?


As I said, relative to the EARTH, which is the relevant frame of reference in order to compare the Earth's own motion relative to the Sun, or for that matter, any orbital body relative to what it orbits.




So you're claiming that because Earth has a diurnal rotation of about 365 turns during each of its orbits, and the Moon only has one, that therefor the Moon has NO diurnal rotation?

That is the only sense I can make out of your comparison.


No, hon. (No offense, btw; I feel I know you somehow.)

You are still talking of its orbiting the Sun. I am talking on the level of its orbit of the Earth. Which is a mind-experiment, since in fact it also orbits the Sun, as a system, with the Earth.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Of course I'm not talking of the Moon orbitig the Sun, since I spoke of ONE diurnal turn during its orbit! That relates to the Moon's orbit of EARTH, you insufferable loon!

(snip rest of blather based on your above false premise)
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:13 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The Moon first goes around the Earth, then around the Sun (in our understanding levels).
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Only in YOUR 'understanding level'. To everyone else, it is meaningless.

Around the Earth: no diurnal motion.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


You clearly don't understand the definition of 'diurnal motion', and are making on up.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Diurnal motion, the apparent motion of stars around the Earth
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:17 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And by the way, Menow, I still like you. Even if you don't want me to, or whatever. Why? Your spite and crudity of manner are clearly partly defensive, not merely offensice.

Plus, for all your not seeing meaning in my words, i.e., not parsing the layman's part of it and seeing the thought experiments I meant, you are good with words.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


The very BASIS of your argument is erroneous use of terms. without that, you would have been rendered mute pages ago.

Weird. But true. I think maybe when they roll out of you you are creative with them. But coming in, others' meanings are blocked from you, if it requires charitability -- expecially if you've already decided (*a priori* emotional decisions affecting mind) that the person has to be unknowledgeable or is a dopey person in general.

However, in peace, *ad astra, homo!* (To the stars, fellow!)
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


No, you simply have no idea what you are talking about. Period.
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Reply by P Gray 8 hours ago
Allright. Here's the concept. The position of the Earth with respect to whether Earth is stopped in it's orbit should be easy to determine. Consider the following:
1) dig a hole in your yard deep enough to be below the frost line, place a metal pipe in the hole and cement it in place.
2) permanently attach a space type telescope to the pole
3) at exactly a specific time at night, (example midnight) align the crosshairs of the scope on a star in a constellation, with the proviso that the constellation is in the plane of the ecliptic
4) tighten the devices on the scope on the scope that attach the scope to the pole
5) check the alignment of the crosshairs each night at exactly the same time (example: midnight)
6) it seems by math to me that if the Earth is travelling in its orbit around the sun, then the following must occur
7) the crosshairs will slowly move away from the star chosen
I wish someone would do this and hook it up to a webcam. We could all check it and see if the crosshairs stay on target.
8) I realize with the "wobble" there may be some variability, but with the Earth progressing in an orbit, the "drift" of the crosshairs will be unmistakeable, large, and consistent. There.....end of the orbit debate. Please someone take this challenge on.... let's see the results. Thanks


from the ning

It's there now - but I wouldn't like to make book on for how long- or how long Mr Grey is going to be around there either

`show nancy wrong- thats a bannin'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 763624


It won't matter, since nobody will do that experiment. If they do, it will be done sloppily enough so that they can still believe Nancy is right.
Catseye
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05/26/2010 12:26 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
delusion:

A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture (e.g., it is not an article of religious faith). When a false belief involves a value judgment, it is regarded as a delusion only when the judgment is so extreme as to defy credibility. Delusional conviction occurs on a continuum and can sometimes be inferred from an individual's behavior. It is often difficult to distinguish between a delusion and an overvalued idea (in which case the individual has an unreasonable belief or idea but does not hold it as firmly as is the case with a delusion). Delusions are subdivided according to their content. Some of the more common types are: bizarre; delusional jealousy; grandiose; delusion of reference; persecutory; somatic; thought broadcasting; thought insertion.
George B
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05/26/2010 12:36 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Excuse my asking . . . in all the discussion regarding rotation, etc. if it was mentioned I missed it . . . what is the theory to explain why our moon's rotation exactly matches the duration of the revolution around the earth. Does this one face shown to the earth by our moon exist anywhere in the solar system, etc? Thanks!
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:45 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by Chris Thomas Wakefield 11 hours ago
Oh yeah, I really feel it. This period of time is so extra hard, for me anyway, because it's the time when the banks are stable, food, equipment, seed tools are all readily available and yet we are only a year out from the poleshift: prime time to ready oneself. Yet, I can't, I cannot do it at this time. I'm assured that everything will be ok by my oversoul, but this just isn't enough. My dear friends, just won't hear the story about the poleshift. My kids still act like I'm a little nuts or deluded, I don't know which. So it feels like a pressure cooker, between a poleshift and plenty.
Chris Thomas.


These people have disrupted their children's lives behind this crap.
Menow
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05/26/2010 12:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by The Shadow 11 minutes ago
I put a lot of stock in all the predictions for significant events that were expected for this spring. In a sense, I sort of put my life on hold and held my breath. Sometimes you don't realize how tense you are until you relax for a moment and notice how stiff you've been holding yourself. That's how I feel right now.
George B
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05/26/2010 12:48 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's tidal locking. It's the norm for our solar system.
Eventually the Earth will become tidal locked to the Sun and only one side of our planet will get sunlight.
 Quoting: DrPostman


That is a rather disturbing thought . . . has any planet accomplished this feat . . . Mercury or others?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 12:56 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Excuse my asking . . . in all the discussion regarding rotation, etc. if it was mentioned I missed it . . . what is the theory to explain why our moon's rotation exactly matches the duration of the revolution around the earth. Does this one face shown to the earth by our moon exist anywhere in the solar system, etc? Thanks!
 Quoting: George B


Yes, it's called "tidal locking" and is extremely common. In fact, most other moons in the solar system exhibit the same behavior. It naturally happens over time when a less massive body is in orbit around a more massive body. The tidal forces induced in the less massive body tend to synchronize its rotation over time to match it's orbital period.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 12:58 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's tidal locking. It's the norm for our solar system.
Eventually the Earth will become tidal locked to the Sun and only one side of our planet will get sunlight.


That is a rather disturbing thought . . . has any planet accomplished this feat . . . Mercury or others?
 Quoting: George B


Mercury is locked into a 3:2 resonance with the sun. And the Earth and Venus are in a complex 13:8 tidal lock with each other.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 01:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by The Shadow 11 minutes ago
I put a lot of stock in all the predictions for significant events that were expected for this spring. In a sense, I sort of put my life on hold and held my breath. Sometimes you don't realize how tense you are until you relax for a moment and notice how stiff you've been holding yourself. That's how I feel right now.

 Quoting: Menow 935048


I'd rather not even know what's going on over there. It's depressing that there exist people so completely ignorant and divorced from reality that they will ruin the lives of their kids over some kook cult.
George B
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05/26/2010 01:01 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's tidal locking. It's the norm for our solar system.
Eventually the Earth will become tidal locked to the Sun and only one side of our planet will get sunlight.


That is a rather disturbing thought . . . has any planet accomplished this feat . . . Mercury or others?


Mercury is locked into a 3:2 resonance with the sun. And the Earth and Venus are in a complex 13:8 tidal lock with each other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Wow, any idea on the time needed for this sync to happen? Is it affected by proximity to the larger body, angular momentum, etc.?

Last Edited by George B on 05/26/2010 01:02 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 01:07 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's tidal locking. It's the norm for our solar system.
Eventually the Earth will become tidal locked to the Sun and only one side of our planet will get sunlight.


That is a rather disturbing thought . . . has any planet accomplished this feat . . . Mercury or others?


Mercury is locked into a 3:2 resonance with the sun. And the Earth and Venus are in a complex 13:8 tidal lock with each other.


Wow, any idea on the time needed for this sync to happen? Is it affected by proximity to the larger body, angular momentum, etc.?
 Quoting: George B


The mathematics of the time scale are at

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
George B
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by The Shadow 11 minutes ago
I put a lot of stock in all the predictions for significant events that were expected for this spring. In a sense, I sort of put my life on hold and held my breath. Sometimes you don't realize how tense you are until you relax for a moment and notice how stiff you've been holding yourself. That's how I feel right now.



I'd rather not even know what's going on over there. It's depressing that there exist people so completely ignorant and divorced from reality that they will ruin the lives of their kids over some kook cult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


While I don't disagree with what you said . . . there are many, many more sources of information regarding the "pending doom" . . . just watch the History and Discovery Channels almost any night of the week. It has become a feeding frenzy of the biggest and most disturbing doom possible.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Menow
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05/26/2010 01:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I have said, for a long time now, that this whole thing is an organized movement. Oranized on what level, I don't really know, but this PX(and other various doom) thing has been artificially pushed, IMO.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 01:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
While I don't disagree with what you said . . . there are many, many more sources of information regarding the "pending doom" . . . just watch the History and Discovery Channels almost any night of the week. It has become a feeding frenzy of the biggest and most disturbing doom possible.
 Quoting: George B



On the documentaries on asteroid collisions, yes, they are a part of earth's history and will no doubt happen again. The question isn't IF, but WHEN.

As for the docs on the various 2012 doomsday ideas, haven't you watched them all the way through when they show towards the end that there is no evidence to support any of it?
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 01:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Here is a good article on the 2012 foolishness.

[link to www.slate.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 01:18 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Here's another showing that there is absolutly nothing astronomically signficant about the year 2012.

[link to www.dartmouth.edu]
George B
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05/26/2010 01:22 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I have said, for a long time now, that this whole thing is an organized movement. Oranized on what level, I don't really know, but this PX(and other various doom) thing has been artificially pushed, IMO.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


That is my point exactly. There is an agenda and it is not just to make money and get viewers.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B
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05/26/2010 01:27 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
While I don't disagree with what you said . . . there are many, many more sources of information regarding the "pending doom" . . . just watch the History and Discovery Channels almost any night of the week. It has become a feeding frenzy of the biggest and most disturbing doom possible.



On the documentaries on asteroid collisions, yes, they are a part of earth's history and will no doubt happen again. The question isn't IF, but WHEN.

As for the docs on the various 2012 doomsday ideas, haven't you watched them all the way through when they show towards the end that there is no evidence to support any of it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


I have watched most of them and to the end. I have researched many of the sources for the information independently and have come to the conclusion that for each position there is a counter position. It rests with the observer. What is the preponderance of the evidence. Do you trust the sources, what does your heart and head tell you. My only conclusion is that there are agendas being played out. That is all I will conclude at this time. I also will conclude that many people are confused and yes many frightened especially younger people.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Setheory
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05/26/2010 01:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by Chris Thomas Wakefield 11 hours ago
Oh yeah, I really feel it. This period of time is so extra hard, for me anyway, because it's the time when the banks are stable, food, equipment, seed tools are all readily available and yet we are only a year out from the poleshift: prime time to ready oneself. Yet, I can't, I cannot do it at this time. I'm assured that everything will be ok by my oversoul, but this just isn't enough. My dear friends, just won't hear the story about the poleshift. My kids still act like I'm a little nuts or deluded, I don't know which. So it feels like a pressure cooker, between a poleshift and plenty.
Chris Thomas.


These people have disrupted their children's lives behind this crap.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


That is the bit that bothers me most. For me, it serves as the greatest incentive to get the real facts out there and help people understand them.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 02:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
While I don't disagree with what you said . . . there are many, many more sources of information regarding the "pending doom" . . . just watch the History and Discovery Channels almost any night of the week. It has become a feeding frenzy of the biggest and most disturbing doom possible.



On the documentaries on asteroid collisions, yes, they are a part of earth's history and will no doubt happen again. The question isn't IF, but WHEN.

As for the docs on the various 2012 doomsday ideas, haven't you watched them all the way through when they show towards the end that there is no evidence to support any of it?


I have watched most of them and to the end. I have researched many of the sources for the information independently and have come to the conclusion that for each position there is a counter position. It rests with the observer. What is the preponderance of the evidence. Do you trust the sources, what does your heart and head tell you. My only conclusion is that there are agendas being played out. That is all I will conclude at this time. I also will conclude that many people are confused and yes many frightened especially younger people.
 Quoting: George B


The two references I linked above will tell you a lot. Now, if you have some "evidence" that you think is worthy of discussion, please bring it forth along with your references for it.
George B
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05/26/2010 02:05 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by Chris Thomas Wakefield 11 hours ago
Oh yeah, I really feel it. This period of time is so extra hard, for me anyway, because it's the time when the banks are stable, food, equipment, seed tools are all readily available and yet we are only a year out from the poleshift: prime time to ready oneself. Yet, I can't, I cannot do it at this time. I'm assured that everything will be ok by my oversoul, but this just isn't enough. My dear friends, just won't hear the story about the poleshift. My kids still act like I'm a little nuts or deluded, I don't know which. So it feels like a pressure cooker, between a poleshift and plenty.
Chris Thomas.


These people have disrupted their children's lives behind this crap.


That is the bit that bothers me most. For me, it serves as the greatest incentive to get the real facts out there and help people understand them.
 Quoting: Setheory 869850


Every generation has faced great challenges, every generation felt that their generation could be the last. When I was just a child I thought the Atomic Bomb was the end of the world. It didn't happen. I thought the Communist would take over the world . .. it didn't happen. Now we are being bombarded with many different sources of Doom from Hollywood to the internet, to the TV. The difference now is that the economy is in the tank, education is failing, the family is under attack from many sources, and the religious institutions are failing. No one trusts the government at any level and Corporations are seen as the bane of society. I can't blame someone for thinking the end is just over the next hill. The thing is if one feels this way one should shield the children . . . that is proper parenting.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
From the Ning.

Reply by Chris Thomas Wakefield 11 hours ago
Oh yeah, I really feel it. This period of time is so extra hard, for me anyway, because it's the time when the banks are stable, food, equipment, seed tools are all readily available and yet we are only a year out from the poleshift: prime time to ready oneself. Yet, I can't, I cannot do it at this time. I'm assured that everything will be ok by my oversoul, but this just isn't enough. My dear friends, just won't hear the story about the poleshift. My kids still act like I'm a little nuts or deluded, I don't know which. So it feels like a pressure cooker, between a poleshift and plenty.
Chris Thomas.


These people have disrupted their children's lives behind this crap.


That is the bit that bothers me most. For me, it serves as the greatest incentive to get the real facts out there and help people understand them.


Every generation has faced great challenges, every generation felt that their generation could be the last. When I was just a child I thought the Atomic Bomb was the end of the world. It didn't happen. I thought the Communist would take over the world . .. it didn't happen. Now we are being bombarded with many different sources of Doom from Hollywood to the internet, to the TV. The difference now is that the economy is in the tank, education is failing, the family is under attack from many sources, and the religious institutions are failing. No one trusts the government at any level and Corporations are seen as the bane of society. I can't blame someone for thinking the end is just over the next hill. The thing is if one feels this way one should shield the children . . . that is proper parenting.
 Quoting: George B


EVERY generation has had its challenges. Can you name one in the last several centuries that hasn't? You have to get things in perspective. If you have shortsightedness and don't know history, then sure...you might be panicing. Just like those who think that earthquakes have increased, etc. They simply do not look at the historic record. That's exactly what Zetatalk breeds on...ignorance of science and history.
George B
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05/26/2010 02:38 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The two references I linked above will tell you a lot. Now, if you have some "evidence" that you think is worthy of discussion, please bring it forth along with your references for it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

The references you identified deal primarily with the Mayan Calendar issues. The debate over the conclusion based on the proper translation of the Mayan Codex and what does the end of a calendar mean is for anyone to debate. People will always make money selling their theories. The existence of Planet-X is in the same boat . . . it was theorized to possibly exist based on 100 year old theories about the perturbations of the orbits of the outer planets. Again Zecharia Sitchen with questionable credentials made a lot out of his translation of Sumerian clay tablets . . . again a money maker. There are other things to consider like the one below:
Not to mention those warnings listed in the Christian Bible etc. People do take their religion seriously.



Last Edited by George B on 05/26/2010 03:03 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Returner
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Watching people take this pole-shift nonsense seriously is truly saddening. Especially when you consider that just a bit of education would dispell any such ludicrous fears.

It's a shame.
George B
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05/26/2010 02:55 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Watching people take this pole-shift nonsense seriously is truly saddening. Especially when you consider that just a bit of education would dispell any such ludicrous fears.

It's a shame.
 Quoting: Returner 997


I think you overestimate the power of data "education" to dispel fears. It is like pouring water into a bucket with a hole in it. In this case the hole in the bucket is very large. Also people's emotions are involved. You can discuss logic and then show a person a couple of movies, two or three History and Discovery Channel episodes and throw in one or two sermons regarding the second coming of Christ and TILT.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

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All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The two references I linked above will tell you a lot. Now, if you have some "evidence" that you think is worthy of discussion, please bring it forth along with your references for it.

The referenced you identified deal primarily with the Mayan Calendar issues. The debate over the conclusion based on the proper translation of the Mayan Codex and what does the end of a calendar mean is for anyone to debate. People will always make money selling their theories. The existence of Planet-X is in the same boat . . . it was theorized to possibly exist based on 100 year old theories about the perturbations of the orbits of the outer planets. Again Zecharia Sitchen with questionable credentials made a lot out of his translation of Sumerian clay tablets . . . again a money maker. There are other things to consider like the one below:
Not to mention those warnings listed in the Christian Bible etc. People do take their religion seriously.


 Quoting: George B


Solar flares and their potential for damage have been known for decades. 2012 just happenes to be at the predicted height of the normal 11-year solar activity cycle, but this cycle has proven to be one of the quietest in recent memory with very few sunspots in evidence.


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