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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The tidal lock leaves the Moon NOT REVOLVING as it ROTATES around Earth, from that order of view.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


You have it exactly backwards.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:02 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


Not exactly:

"They have specific meanings in astronomy. Revolve usually means to orbit around. The earth revolves around the sun, and completes one revolution in one year. So an orbit describes how a planet revolves around its sun. The turning of a planet on its axis is called rotation. The earth's rotation causes night and day. Orbit means the path or trajectory of a revolving body around another - a moon about a planet or that planet about the sun. To rotate means to spin around on an axis, like a top. "
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:02 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, noted astronomer and regular columnist to 'Cat Fancy,' wrote:

"Clearly I understand each body's vector movement around the other, in terms of the geometry of it, and orders of magnitude distinctions."

The word 'clearly' is listed as in critical condition, and is not expected to live through the night. Doctors at Grammar General report the word's injuries are alomst certainly fatal.
George B
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05/26/2010 04:03 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It rests with those who know the science. By the way, this 'science' of which I speak is not apposed to some sort of "feeling" type of assessment. It is opposed to the alleged "science" spouted by those who only THINK they are citing valid evidence.


Oh, you mean like East Anglia Univeristy and climate gate.


Only vaguely familiar, but probably.
 Quoting: Menow 935048



Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WHEN NANCY SAID IT DOESN'T SPIN ON ITS AXIS SHE MEANT IT DOESN'T REVOLVE AS IT ORBITS THE EARTH, though in orbiting the Sun together, it does in fact spin on its axis, and she didn't realize that.


Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.

No they don't. No I don't mean them the same.

I changed to your technical use of "revolve", many posts ago. And have been using "rotate" to mean total orbital positions around another axis.

Revolve is therefore the name (as you wished) for any turn on its axis EVEN RELATIVE TO ALL FORWARD MOTION NOT CONSIDERED ... if mere TIME is considered.

Venus has this. Earth has this. Relative to the Sun, they Revolve.

The Moon does not have this, relative to the Earth.

You know this. Why keep on with it, saying I am being meaningless.

I have made adjustments to your jargon usage. Now you adjust to seeing what I'm talking of.


Clare, again, you have it ass backwards.

An object ROTATES or SPINS about its own axis when that axis is internal to the object. An object REVOLVES around or ORBITS another object or axis when that axis is outside of the object. The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon.

PLEASE look up these terms and learn just a little before continuing to make a complete fool of yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Cripes.

Fine, I misread the Wikipedia sentence on how astronomers use the terms, versus common parlance, in my haste to reply to Menow's superciliousness.

Reverse the words. (Which are interchangeable in common speech anyway.)

Now you see I UNDERSTAND THE MOTIONS from the DESCRIPTIONS I give.

Anyway, the only reason the Moon ROTATES ON ITS AXIS as you all were so proud of knowing, is from the SUN's PERSPECTIVE. Relative to the Earth it' only REVOLUTION around the Earth.

Okay?

Having gotten the terms interchanged does not change how much I know and I have been saying the following all along, again and again (but if I'd used the term "independent" people here would have said I was claiming it doesn't all happen in the same body! they are so full of themselves so want to make trouble, but since you said it I'll quote you):

"The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon."


So,

Good. Are we done here.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It rests with those who know the science. By the way, this 'science' of which I speak is not apposed to some sort of "feeling" type of assessment. It is opposed to the alleged "science" spouted by those who only THINK they are citing valid evidence.


Oh, you mean like East Anglia Univeristy and climate gate.


Only vaguely familiar, but probably.



 Quoting: George B

bsflag
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, direct question for you; you have a spaceship sitting on the equator of the moon and you're launching it into lunar orbit. If you launch your spaceship from the moon's surface into lunar orbit, does it require more delta-V (and therefore, fuel) to launch due west than to launch due east? Yes or no?
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


THAT would be absolutely correct.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:06 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


True: it WAS an argument about semantics at the end here -- but also there was confusion in sme of these people's minds because the ROTATION around its axis that the Moon exhibits is MERELY from a 2nd-order perspective (the Sun).

Also, re. PX: I hope your fact is right. One way or another, we might have preparations for massive grid problems to do. (Massive electrical prob's would lead to other problems than mere electrical conveyance, but whole other orders of magnitude: unrest, inability to get gas to do other things, food storage and death.)

Amish, anyone? Just to be sure!
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Having gotten the terms interchanged does not change how much I know and I have been saying the following all along, again and again (but if I'd used the term "independent" people here would have said I was claiming it doesn't all happen in the same body! they are so full of themselves so want to make trouble, but since you said it I'll quote you):

"The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon."
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Quite correct. This is known as the Principle of Superposition.

So,

Good. Are we done here.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


As soon as you acknowledge that the moon rotates on its own axis, as will be proven by someone standing on its north pole looking up at the stars.
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05/26/2010 04:09 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, direct question for you; you have a spaceship sitting on the equator of the moon and you're launching it into lunar orbit. If you launch your spaceship from the moon's surface into lunar orbit, does it require more delta-V (and therefore, fuel) to launch due west than to launch due east? Yes or no?
 Quoting: Astronut

bump for clare.
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Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.


True: it WAS an argument about semantics at the end here -- but also there was confusion in sme of these people's minds because the ROTATION around its axis that the Moon exhibits is MERELY from a 2nd-order perspective (the Sun).


 Quoting: mclarek 981736



Nope. It would be clear for anyone observing from anyplace on the moon itself as well, or for anywhere else in the universe for that matter. Thus, the moon rotates on its own axis BY DEFINITION.
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:10 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"...at the end here..."

The argument isn't over, Clare dear -- you're still wrong, and no amount of word-mangling will change that.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[Youtube vid on Climategate]

bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


Nope.

These were real leaks, and enough people knew of it to scuttle the carbon tax idea. Plants an animals thrive in high-carbon and slightly warmer conditions.

And this whole Maurice Strong/Rothschild Bank carbon tax and derivatives "carbon credit" scam is what it is.

Gore stands to make hundreds of billions.

(And yep, direct testimony has come out that making the Rothschild Bank a World Bank was the plan from the late 1980s on in the meetings) ...

What kind of world do you think you're living in? Unpressured? Safe?

Geez.
Setheory
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05/26/2010 04:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The tidal lock leaves the Moon NOT REVOLVING as it ROTATES around Earth, from that order of view.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


putin
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!


You have also been asked dozens of times now (but have evaded answering each time) what an observer would see if he stood on the north pole of the moon and looked straight up...what would the star field appear to do? This is a very simple question. Why do you avoid it at all costs?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Clare, please answer this.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She's avoiding it because it proves her wrong as does Nut's Rocket question.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, please answer this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

Like Nancy, Clare does not answer or even acknowledge any questions that Clare does not like.
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She's avoiding it because it proves her wrong as does Nut's Rocket question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982559

Bingo.
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Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:16 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The whole argument has been "does the moon rotate around its own axis". When you are standing on the north pole of the moon, you are standing on this axis.

Now, Clare, what would you see if you looked straight up while standing on the axis of the moon? What would the star field appear to do?
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:20 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, this really isn't a very difficult question. Come on...you can do it.
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
C'mon, Clare -- answer the question. You can do it in ten words or less, even.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:26 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I think we have our answer.

Good day, all.
Menow
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05/26/2010 04:27 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
As far as I can tell, Clare is trying to play the "I'm-just-a-silly-girl-so-you-have-to-let-me-use-the-wrong-t​erms-and-pretend-they-are-right-'cause-I-don't-know-any-bette​r" card.

Teehee...
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:29 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Looks that way, Menow.

Guess 'she' decided that wouldn't work when posting as Volar.
Menow
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05/26/2010 04:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.


Not exactly:

"They have specific meanings in astronomy. Revolve usually means to orbit around. The earth revolves around the sun, and completes one revolution in one year. So an orbit describes how a planet revolves around its sun. The turning of a planet on its axis is called rotation. The earth's rotation causes night and day. Orbit means the path or trajectory of a revolving body around another - a moon about a planet or that planet about the sun. To rotate means to spin around on an axis, like a top. "
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


Technically, yes, but in terms of Clare's dilemma of terminology that is beyond the needs of the situation.
Catseye
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05/26/2010 04:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
There is no confusion, you are just ignoring the currently accepted definitions of "revolve" and "rotate" and using them interchangeably. You won't find an article of any substance that states "the moon rotates around the earth" - it's just not the correct definition of the word "rotate". And you certainly aren't going to convince anyone here that "rotate" has a newer, broader definition than it always has.


You said:



Catseye and 74444.

"The fact is, the Moon's primary orbit is around Earth. It does not revolve ("spin" on its axis), it merely rotates around Earth. The Earth revolves, while it goes around the Sun, as does Venus (backwards)."

But you have already admitted that the moon does, in fact, rotate on its axis. And if the earth revolves around the sun, as does Venus, how is this different than the moon around the earth? I mean, how is the moon "rotating" around the earth, but the earth's is "revolving" around the sun? These words are not interchangeable. It's like black vs white.


and you also said:

"From the Sun, it does show different faces, giving it phases, because it spins on its axis ("revolves") RELATIVE TO THE SUN (giving phases, not true diurnal motion, which would be relative to the Earth, not the Sun, if the Earth were a sun)."


For Christ's sake, Clare! Spins on its axis IS NOT "revolve"! Let's just say for the sake of argument that rotate means revolve here. Okay. You said spins on its axis relative to the sun. But that is what we compare everything to! The sun! That's what years and days are all about, a body's movement in relation to the sun! So you just said the moon spins on its axis! Whether you want to call it rotation or revolution is a matter of stubbornness, but you just admitted to what we've been saying all along! You just don't like the currently established and accepted definitions of these astronomical terms!

If you go back about a million and a half pages, to 525, you'll see how you've been giving in ever so slightly here and there to save face:







see final paragraph:




It clarifies, even further, that you think you are intellectually superior to the rest of us. We know where the alleged 'confusion' lies with this Moon thing. We have been around and around with it. But here YOU come, thinking that you need to 'explain' it to us... Truth is, YOU have a lot of deficits in understanding in these matters and stubborn refusal to learn, as you have already demonstrated by your dodging many of the specific points addressed to you.

By the way... what in the world is "self-axis spinning" in the above context, since you are here to inform and clarify?


I may or may not be intellectually superior in nature. I have no idea if I am. I do know I stick to well worked out stadnards of hypothesis and logic-standards, so that if I fail to be logical, I correct myself.

I did about Polaris.

And I was elucidating the need to fill out the whole hypothesis, as well as its parts, in order to do justice to even a crazy idea. Some ideas have seemed crazy and were not.

As to the final point, it was my own way to express spinning on its own axis in a north-south self-referential way, as the Earth does. This, the moon does not do. It has a ROTATION but not a spin on its own axis.
 Quoting: mclarek 971744
Menow
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05/26/2010 04:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now you see I UNDERSTAND THE MOTIONS from the DESCRIPTIONS I give.


 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Virtually NOTHING is understandable from the descriptions you give.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:36 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Amish, anyone?
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


My point was that most PXers aren't going to be as prepared as the Amish.

It's a lot of fantasy which I'm sure in many cases does not extend much beyond putting together the "bug out" kit.

For that matter, many of the Amish aren't as prepared for major disaster as people think. Just because they aren't personally driving automobiles doesn't mean they aren't involved in the petroleum based economy.


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