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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
George B

User ID: 976283
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05/26/2010 03:53 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The general PX thing has been coming through "channelled" sources for almost 25 years in my personal experience via knowing people who "channel". Don't even start with the 'all channelling is fake' argument. I'm tired of that discussion. If you haven't personally known people who "channel"(whatever that is) for 20+ years, then you are arguing without direct personal experience. The people I have known who were "channelling" stuff about that were definately not intentionally faking the phenomenon. It is something more than simply fake.

That's all I care to say about it.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


Fascinating . . . you would accept evidence produced by Remote Viewing as valid over scientists who say Planet-X is utter nonsense?

Last Edited by George B on 05/26/2010 03:58 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
mclarek
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05/26/2010 03:57 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WHEN NANCY SAID IT DOESN'T SPIN ON ITS AXIS SHE MEANT IT DOESN'T REVOLVE AS IT ORBITS THE EARTH, though in orbiting the Sun together, it does in fact spin on its axis, and she didn't realize that.


Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.

No they don't.


Of course they do. References were provided.


No I don't mean them the same.


You don't get to redefine well-understood technical terms to suit you.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


I meant I don't mean them the same as YOU CLAIMED I DID.
I was using them in YOUR JARGON WAY, the specialized way. NOW YOU understand ME for a change.

Oh, and now that they're being used YOUR way you should understand what's meant, no?

The tidal lock leaves the Moon NOT REVOLVING as it ROTATES around Earth, from that order of view.

But relative to the Sun, the Moon rotates on its axis AND moves around the Sun in orbit.

Good. Anything more, and you're being ornary.

Rotation does (in terms of total movement) mean a vector, a summary of points around ANOTHER AXIS.

It's the other axis which defines the motion direction.

So, you get the Moon doesn't show different faces TO US? RIGHT? But it does TO THE SUN? RIGHT?

But the Earth shows different faces to the Sun AND the centre of the Galaxy? And would, even if, like the Moon, it were tidally locked with the Sun and not REVOLVING as it ROTATED around the Sun?

I am here using your terms. You get it or you're being obstreporous and not actually trying to end this with understanding.

Clearly I understand each body's vector movement around the other, in terms of the geometry of it, and orders of magnitude distinctions. I leave this now.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 03:59 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Rotation and revolution

While revolution is often used as a synonym for rotation, in many fields, particularly astronomy and related fields, revolution, often referred to as orbital revolution for clarity, is used when one body moves around another while rotation is used to mean the movement around an axis. Moons revolve around their planet, planets revolve about their star (such as the Earth around the Sun); and stars slowly revolve about their galaxial center.


Wo while in informal usage of the words, some people refer to them interchangeably, ASTRONOMERS in particular have very different definitions of them as explained above so that there is no confusion of the two different motions. You seem to have trouble with that concept. Since we're talking about an astronomical subject here, please use the definitions given in the example above.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The tidal lock leaves the Moon NOT REVOLVING as it ROTATES around Earth, from that order of view.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


You have it exactly backwards.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:02 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.
 Quoting: Menow 935048


Not exactly:

"They have specific meanings in astronomy. Revolve usually means to orbit around. The earth revolves around the sun, and completes one revolution in one year. So an orbit describes how a planet revolves around its sun. The turning of a planet on its axis is called rotation. The earth's rotation causes night and day. Orbit means the path or trajectory of a revolving body around another - a moon about a planet or that planet about the sun. To rotate means to spin around on an axis, like a top. "
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:02 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, noted astronomer and regular columnist to 'Cat Fancy,' wrote:

"Clearly I understand each body's vector movement around the other, in terms of the geometry of it, and orders of magnitude distinctions."

The word 'clearly' is listed as in critical condition, and is not expected to live through the night. Doctors at Grammar General report the word's injuries are alomst certainly fatal.
George B

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05/26/2010 04:03 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It rests with those who know the science. By the way, this 'science' of which I speak is not apposed to some sort of "feeling" type of assessment. It is opposed to the alleged "science" spouted by those who only THINK they are citing valid evidence.


Oh, you mean like East Anglia Univeristy and climate gate.


Only vaguely familiar, but probably.
 Quoting: Menow 935048



Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WHEN NANCY SAID IT DOESN'T SPIN ON ITS AXIS SHE MEANT IT DOESN'T REVOLVE AS IT ORBITS THE EARTH, though in orbiting the Sun together, it does in fact spin on its axis, and she didn't realize that.


Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.

No they don't. No I don't mean them the same.

I changed to your technical use of "revolve", many posts ago. And have been using "rotate" to mean total orbital positions around another axis.

Revolve is therefore the name (as you wished) for any turn on its axis EVEN RELATIVE TO ALL FORWARD MOTION NOT CONSIDERED ... if mere TIME is considered.

Venus has this. Earth has this. Relative to the Sun, they Revolve.

The Moon does not have this, relative to the Earth.

You know this. Why keep on with it, saying I am being meaningless.

I have made adjustments to your jargon usage. Now you adjust to seeing what I'm talking of.


Clare, again, you have it ass backwards.

An object ROTATES or SPINS about its own axis when that axis is internal to the object. An object REVOLVES around or ORBITS another object or axis when that axis is outside of the object. The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon.

PLEASE look up these terms and learn just a little before continuing to make a complete fool of yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Cripes.

Fine, I misread the Wikipedia sentence on how astronomers use the terms, versus common parlance, in my haste to reply to Menow's superciliousness.

Reverse the words. (Which are interchangeable in common speech anyway.)

Now you see I UNDERSTAND THE MOTIONS from the DESCRIPTIONS I give.

Anyway, the only reason the Moon ROTATES ON ITS AXIS as you all were so proud of knowing, is from the SUN's PERSPECTIVE. Relative to the Earth it' only REVOLUTION around the Earth.

Okay?

Having gotten the terms interchanged does not change how much I know and I have been saying the following all along, again and again (but if I'd used the term "independent" people here would have said I was claiming it doesn't all happen in the same body! they are so full of themselves so want to make trouble, but since you said it I'll quote you):

"The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon."


So,

Good. Are we done here.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It rests with those who know the science. By the way, this 'science' of which I speak is not apposed to some sort of "feeling" type of assessment. It is opposed to the alleged "science" spouted by those who only THINK they are citing valid evidence.


Oh, you mean like East Anglia Univeristy and climate gate.


Only vaguely familiar, but probably.



 Quoting: George B

bsflag
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05/26/2010 04:04 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, direct question for you; you have a spaceship sitting on the equator of the moon and you're launching it into lunar orbit. If you launch your spaceship from the moon's surface into lunar orbit, does it require more delta-V (and therefore, fuel) to launch due west than to launch due east? Yes or no?
astrobanner2
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05/26/2010 04:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


THAT would be absolutely correct.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:06 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


True: it WAS an argument about semantics at the end here -- but also there was confusion in sme of these people's minds because the ROTATION around its axis that the Moon exhibits is MERELY from a 2nd-order perspective (the Sun).

Also, re. PX: I hope your fact is right. One way or another, we might have preparations for massive grid problems to do. (Massive electrical prob's would lead to other problems than mere electrical conveyance, but whole other orders of magnitude: unrest, inability to get gas to do other things, food storage and death.)

Amish, anyone? Just to be sure!
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Having gotten the terms interchanged does not change how much I know and I have been saying the following all along, again and again (but if I'd used the term "independent" people here would have said I was claiming it doesn't all happen in the same body! they are so full of themselves so want to make trouble, but since you said it I'll quote you):

"The two motions are INDEPENDENT and can be analyzed seperately even when OCCURING AT THE SAME TIME as is the case with the moon."
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Quite correct. This is known as the Principle of Superposition.

So,

Good. Are we done here.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


As soon as you acknowledge that the moon rotates on its own axis, as will be proven by someone standing on its north pole looking up at the stars.
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05/26/2010 04:09 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, direct question for you; you have a spaceship sitting on the equator of the moon and you're launching it into lunar orbit. If you launch your spaceship from the moon's surface into lunar orbit, does it require more delta-V (and therefore, fuel) to launch due west than to launch due east? Yes or no?
 Quoting: Astronut

bump for clare.
astrobanner2
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05/26/2010 04:09 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
All this argument about semantics does not alter the FACT that Nancy's Planet X is a figment of her imagination.


True: it WAS an argument about semantics at the end here -- but also there was confusion in sme of these people's minds because the ROTATION around its axis that the Moon exhibits is MERELY from a 2nd-order perspective (the Sun).


 Quoting: mclarek 981736



Nope. It would be clear for anyone observing from anyplace on the moon itself as well, or for anywhere else in the universe for that matter. Thus, the moon rotates on its own axis BY DEFINITION.
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:10 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"...at the end here..."

The argument isn't over, Clare dear -- you're still wrong, and no amount of word-mangling will change that.
mclarek
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05/26/2010 04:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
[Youtube vid on Climategate]

bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


Nope.

These were real leaks, and enough people knew of it to scuttle the carbon tax idea. Plants an animals thrive in high-carbon and slightly warmer conditions.

And this whole Maurice Strong/Rothschild Bank carbon tax and derivatives "carbon credit" scam is what it is.

Gore stands to make hundreds of billions.

(And yep, direct testimony has come out that making the Rothschild Bank a World Bank was the plan from the late 1980s on in the meetings) ...

What kind of world do you think you're living in? Unpressured? Safe?

Geez.
Setheory
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05/26/2010 04:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The tidal lock leaves the Moon NOT REVOLVING as it ROTATES around Earth, from that order of view.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


putin
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05/26/2010 04:12 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!


You have also been asked dozens of times now (but have evaded answering each time) what an observer would see if he stood on the north pole of the moon and looked straight up...what would the star field appear to do? This is a very simple question. Why do you avoid it at all costs?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013


Clare, please answer this.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She's avoiding it because it proves her wrong as does Nut's Rocket question.
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05/26/2010 04:14 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, please answer this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 558013

Like Nancy, Clare does not answer or even acknowledge any questions that Clare does not like.
astrobanner2
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She's avoiding it because it proves her wrong as does Nut's Rocket question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982559

Bingo.
astrobanner2
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05/26/2010 04:16 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The whole argument has been "does the moon rotate around its own axis". When you are standing on the north pole of the moon, you are standing on this axis.

Now, Clare, what would you see if you looked straight up while standing on the axis of the moon? What would the star field appear to do?
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:20 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, this really isn't a very difficult question. Come on...you can do it.
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
C'mon, Clare -- answer the question. You can do it in ten words or less, even.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2010 04:26 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I think we have our answer.

Good day, all.
Menow
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05/26/2010 04:27 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
As far as I can tell, Clare is trying to play the "I'm-just-a-silly-girl-so-you-have-to-let-me-use-the-wrong-t​erms-and-pretend-they-are-right-'cause-I-don't-know-any-bette​r" card.

Teehee...
Returner
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05/26/2010 04:29 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Looks that way, Menow.

Guess 'she' decided that wouldn't work when posting as Volar.
Menow
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05/26/2010 04:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well, since "revolve" and "orbit" mean the same thing, your statement is meaningless.


Not exactly:

"They have specific meanings in astronomy. Revolve usually means to orbit around. The earth revolves around the sun, and completes one revolution in one year. So an orbit describes how a planet revolves around its sun. The turning of a planet on its axis is called rotation. The earth's rotation causes night and day. Orbit means the path or trajectory of a revolving body around another - a moon about a planet or that planet about the sun. To rotate means to spin around on an axis, like a top. "
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982310


Technically, yes, but in terms of Clare's dilemma of terminology that is beyond the needs of the situation.

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