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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
mclarek
User ID: 981736
Canada
05/28/2010 06:54 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Just for tears, a Torontonian local newspaper.


Translation: "I don't have a link to anything."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Oh now that's a laugh and a half! Good one!

For once an objection that isn't, "You can't believe everything on the Internet!" ROTFL

Translation: a reporter did their job. And so did an editor.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 06:57 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now, if I told you that Paul Hellyer says there are aliens, even if he's wrong, would you laugh at the source?
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Yes.

Or Lt. Corso ...
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Yes again.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 06:58 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Just for tears, a Torontonian local newspaper.


Translation: "I don't have a link to anything."

Oh now that's a laugh and a half! Good one!

For once an objection that isn't, "You can't believe everything on the Internet!" ROTFL

Translation: a reporter did their job. And so did an editor.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736



So what's this Colonel's name?

Or is that only something that can be perceived from a sine-wave shaped orbit around the Sun?
mclarek
User ID: 981736
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05/28/2010 07:03 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now, if I told you that Paul Hellyer says there are aliens, even if he's wrong, would you laugh at the source?

Yes.

Or Lt. Corso ...


Yes again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583


At the SOURCE?
Then that is unfair.

At the CLAIM? Maybe not.

For as I said, it's hard to be objective on the alien question. I find that so, anyway.

But, chemtrails are not on that level. As I said. Have a good day.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 07:05 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But, chemtrails are not on that level. As I said. Have a good day.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Translation: "I don't even know the name of the alleged Canadian Colonel I was referring to."
mclarek
User ID: 981736
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05/28/2010 07:11 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So what's this Colonel's name?

Or is that only something that can be perceived from a sine-wave shaped orbit around the Sun?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

For the latter you don't deserve an answer by your own standards: I should laugh at you as a source of a question.

Interesting how, like so many, you expect better treatment than you give, it seems.

Good thing for you that others are not -- as you currently are, anyway -- in this way.

As to the former, I'll try to find it. I kept the article somewhere. I just read it. It should be around.

I'll try to find it for you, for tomorrow, if you like. If I get a chance.

I've been up all night so I'm going to bed. Ciao.
mclarek
User ID: 981736
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05/28/2010 07:21 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But, chemtrails are not on that level. As I said. Have a good day.


Translation: "I don't even know the name of the alleged Canadian Colonel I was referring to."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Like I would know the name! LOL. Yah, photographic memory. :P

That's stooopid. Unless a person has a specific reason to remember a factoid like that, it would be unnatural to remember. Are you a 'tard?

Like most people, I remember relevant context. Only with more familiarity with a name or other such detail, would a person without photographic memory remember. What kind of person are you, to mock such a thing?

Or are you so quick to ridicule, that you cannot get to the learning part of life?

AAANNNYYway ... I'll find it for you if you think the name more important than the report. Of course, the fellow could have been misinformed, or misreported, or the whole story a lie (a plant for "propaganda" -- though to what end that would be, I cannot imagine, in this case: what would they be covering up?).

But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>

Nice day out. Enjoy. Gonna catch some zzzs and then do stuff.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 07:22 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>
 Quoting: mclarek 981736



No, it's not.
mclarek
User ID: 981736
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05/28/2010 07:28 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>



No, it's not.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Then what is this report -- name recalled or not? And the British admission of flights to experiment with chemicals and germs on their people -- and the telling fact they wouldn't say if it's CONTINUING, not that it wasn't happening ever?

Yikes.

Bfn.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 07:32 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
This is what you wrote;

Re. Chemtrails: a Canadian air force colonel just came out to say we don't have the planes for the spraying, so we ask Americans in. (Who are being used by others, one presumes.)
 Quoting: mclarek 981736



You can't answer any questions about this claim because you don't know what you are talking about.

You just admitted as much.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 07:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>



No, it's not.

Then what is this report -- name recalled or not?
 Quoting: mclarek 981736



WHAT REPORT?

There's nothing other than your claim.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 969583
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05/28/2010 07:42 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And everything you've brought up other than this "Canadian Air Force Colonel" has been discussed to death on the chemtrail threads.

Use the search engine and read up on it yourself if you're really interested in "deep research" into the skeptical argument.

Which I doubt you are.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 07:49 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
At this rate we'll hit 600 pages by tomorrow arvo, and 1000 in a fortnight LOL

(admittedly 99% is 2 posts a page by clunk filled with technobabble)

She just cant admit that in every viewpoint apart from the earth's surface - it rotates (even there it shows slight rotation back and forth i.e. libration)

Even from the earth's viewpoint (as Astronut pointed out) it has measurable physical effects showing its rotation ie launch tragectories)

funnily enough I had to look up the correct spelling of libration and this is what came up
[link to en.wikipedia.org]


this bit (about 1/3 way down the first page) is interesting (well to everyone but clunk)

`Libration in latitude results from the Moon's axis of rotation being slightly inclined to the normal to the plane of its orbit around Earth. Its origin is analogous to how the seasons arise from Earth's revolution about the Sun. The Moon's orbit is inclined to the ecliptic plane by slightly more than 5°. Because the Sun illuminates the Moon, and both the Sun and Earth are in the ecliptic plane, the Moon is sometimes illuminated from above and sometimes from below that plane, allowing us to see some of the lunar surface beyond the poles.'
Menow
User ID: 935048
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05/28/2010 10:04 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"Or does it break its tidal lock and start to, relative to Earth? ANYBODY KNOW?"


Idiot.

Tidal "lock" is not like a padlock, Clare-bear.

Why does one have to post the exact same thing to you over and over and over again? Funny, only a troll requires that kind of repetition, as that is the GOAL!

If the Moon's orbit of Earth slowed by 50% to once in 56 days we would immediately begin seeing all sides of it over two weeks because its 'lack of rotation' is only REFERENCE FRAME phenomenon, not a REAL, PHYSICAL ONE.

Tidal "lock" is not like a padlock, Clare-bear. There is nothing to "break".

The Moon ***IS*** ROTATING and it would be apparent when looking from Earth if it were at ANY OTHER RATE than a match to its orbit. The Moon doesn't have to STOP orbiting Earth for it to "start rotating" because it is ROTATING NOW and would still be if its Earth-orbit ceased!

Stop trolling this inane nonsense.

Fini.
Menow
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05/28/2010 10:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
At this rate we'll hit 600 pages by tomorrow arvo, and 1000 in a fortnight LOL

(admittedly 99% is 2 posts a page by clunk filled with technobabble)

She just cant admit that in every viewpoint apart from the earth's surface - it rotates (even there it shows slight rotation back and forth i.e. libration)

Even from the earth's viewpoint (as Astronut pointed out) it has measurable physical effects showing its rotation ie launch tragectories)

funnily enough I had to look up the correct spelling of libration and this is what came up
[link to en.wikipedia.org]


this bit (about 1/3 way down the first page) is interesting (well to everyone but clunk)

`Libration in latitude results from the Moon's axis of rotation being slightly inclined to the normal to the plane of its orbit around Earth. Its origin is analogous to how the seasons arise from Earth's revolution about the Sun. The Moon's orbit is inclined to the ecliptic plane by slightly more than 5°. Because the Sun illuminates the Moon, and both the Sun and Earth are in the ecliptic plane, the Moon is sometimes illuminated from above and sometimes from below that plane, allowing us to see some of the lunar surface beyond the poles.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 763624



Exactly. According to the "no-rotationalists", what we see is the reality of the Lunar orbit... In other words, the Moon is sitting out there, sort-of 'rocking' back and forth in space. I wonder what energy source causes that?!

Heh.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:12 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare, can you find ANY references that agree with your warped sense of reality about the moon? ANY at all?


I'll ask this again at the risk of being ignored as so many of my questions and thought experiments have been by Clare.


I have not ignored ANY THOUGHT EXPERIMENTS -- I may have missed some. I have taken all your baiting and replied again and again.

I am talking of turns and directions (which are like forces, but geometric) to account for all total motion seen; and I am talking of viewpoint at which they are seen. You are talking of total forces on the body.

Different.

So you do YOUR work and I'll just leave you to it. Sick of the attitudes here.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


So, where are your references that back up what you claim?
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Or are you so quick to ridicule, that you cannot get to the learning part of life?

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


It's obvious you have not got to that part yet.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:15 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>



No, it's not.

Then what is this report -- name recalled or not? And the British admission of flights to experiment with chemicals and germs on their people -- and the telling fact they wouldn't say if it's CONTINUING, not that it wasn't happening ever?

Yikes.

Bfn.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


It's BULLSHIT, like the other crap you believe. You've proved yourself stupid and gullible by supporting Nancy's drivel, so there's obviously no limit to your credulity or naivety.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:15 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
As you know, angular momentum is the tendency of an object which is rotating to keep rotating.

What I am talking of it total turns relative to each axis.

If you eliminate its forward direction turns around the Sun, you get the E-M system stopped but the Moon still revolving and the Earth still rotating.

If you stop the Moon revolving, you have no more turns to account for ...

DO YOU GET THAT?

So, it is not in the same degree a rotating body as the Earth or Venus are around their axial centre, the Sun.

 Quoting: mclarek 981736


This is completely wrong. The moon is rotating on its own axis NO MATTER WHAT THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE DOES. This rotation has simply been adjusted by tidal action over eons to match its orbital period around the earth.

As was said last night, if everything else in the solar system except the moon suddenly disappeared, the moon would continue to rotate on its own axis as referenced by the rest of the universe. It has its own angular momentum that simply cannot disappear.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:19 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If I am dealing with one side or another, I try to be on side with what they have to say. In the end, we learn the most that way.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


In that case, why are you so painfully ignorant?
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:20 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Otherwise, it would in fact be still facing the Earth.

Anybody?


Not baiting, Menow.
Asking for what you would see.

Hm?
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


How many times were you asked about what you would see if your were standing on the north pole of the moon looking up at the stars? You evaded answering it probably a dozen times. Still haven't as far as I remember.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:24 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
... useless words

so you are saying `it rotates' then
forget the word salad (which nobody except you seems to think is impressing us on your `massive intellect')

thank you- you finally admit that if you stand on the moons axis point- you can clearly see that the starfield rotates around you- hence the moon rotates


I said this on day 2 when I realized what viewpoint you were talking of and the forces you were talking of.

What I am asking of YOUR useless words, since you missed the point entirely long ago ...

is, if all other motions stopped, would the angular momentum of the Moon break its tidal lock with the Earth and start to rotate then -- truly rotate RELATIVE TO EARTH?


 Quoting: mclarek 981736


YES!!!! The moon has angular momentum of its own and will continue to rotate relative to the rest of the universe even if other motions were stopped seperately.
Returner
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05/28/2010 10:24 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
That's why I asked her to look up Doradus. It's a Lunar pole star. If you set up a fixed camera on a tripod in the Moon's southern hemisphere and aimed it at Doradus and did a time exposure, you'd see Doradus as a point and the rest of the stars as arcs.

Which proves the Moon rotates, and it doesn't make any damned difference what the rest of the Solar System is doing.

But she'll ignore this...again.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:25 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Did you ever think Clare is the Bait and you are the Fish. She wiggles her fins and pops a bubble and all of you rush to see it rise to the surface, hypnotized by your inability to ignore her allure.


Absolutely. Clare is a troll.


And a very useless one at that!!


Still on this "Clare is a troll" thing? It's a waste of a line of thought to think so. Lol.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


But you WOULD say that, if you were a troll, which you certainly SEEM to be.

You refuse to listen, or try to learn. You are ONLY interested in endlessly obfuscating and twisting language in order to muddy the waters and try to get somebody to admit that there might be some grain of truth in Nancy's bullshit.

Well, it won't happen! Because nobody, except you, is stupid enough to think that.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:31 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Minus the Earth-orbit revolution, NO ROTATION relative to the Sun, just revolution around it.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Completely WRONG! If the Earth vanished right now the Moon would continue to rotate on its own axis and orbit the Sun.

Seriously Clare, don't you ever feel even slightly inclined to wonder why EVERYONE except you thinks you are completely wrong?

Try LEARNING. You are always saying how great it is....so why don't you DO IT for once?

Determinedly not learning is classic troll behaviour.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So, would the Moon break its tidal lock if also held in place relative to the Earth and then rotate in place?
 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Yes, it would. You and Nancy seem to give way too much credit to the term tidal "lock"...the "lock" is not at all strong. It was achieved over many millions of years and is simply a delicate balance of rotational and orbital speed. If one were to somehow attach a rocket to the surface of the moon and add some amount of additional rotational speed to it so that we would begin to see all sides of it over time, once the rocket burned out, it would eventually settle back into "tidal lock" due to tidal forces raised. Just as the moon itself raises weak forces in the earth due to the ocean tides and tides in the surface that tend to slow the earth's rotation over time. Both the earth and moon are in free rotation with a very weak tendancy to synchronize their rotation speed over long periods of time, as would be ANY two bodies in close proximity. The tendancy is weak, but it has billions of years over which to work and achieve the "lock" that you seem to think is somehow strong. The word "lock" in this conotation simply means synchronization.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:37 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So, would the Moon break its tidal lock if also held in place relative to the Earth and then rotate in place?

Yes, it would. You and Nancy seem to give way too much credit to the term tidal "lock"...the "lock" is not at all strong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 587930


That's typical of Nancy. She will pick some scientific term she has found on the web, then mangle it to mean what she wants in order to incorporate it into her ridiculous cosmology. Clare does very similar stuff, in fact I have rarely seen somebody with a more incoherent writing style, she uses words in completely the wrong way, then wonders why she is so confused! Her mind obviously is full of words for which she has completely wrong associations! Probably a lost cause! She needs a reboot!
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Or the simple fact that contrails don't leave cloudy trails more than a few dozen seconds?


 Quoting: mclarek 981736


Not true. Check with any astronomy club and you will find that the length of time that contrails stay visible is a direct measure of the amount of humidity in the atmosphere at that level, or the ability of the atmosphere at that level to hold moisture. That is a perfect indicator for how transparent the sky will be that night.

The length of time that contrails stay together is completely dependent on the moisture content of the atmosphere. On dry days, they disappear quickly. On humid days, they linger longer...sometimes many minutes. Because they simply ARE WATER VAPOR.
Menow
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05/28/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Otherwise, it would in fact be still facing the Earth.

Anybody?


Not baiting, Menow.
Asking for what you would see.

Hm?


How many times were you asked about what you would see if your were standing on the north pole of the moon looking up at the stars? You evaded answering it probably a dozen times. Still haven't as far as I remember.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 587930


She finally admited that the Moon rotates relative to the stars, but still equivocates with some nonsense about the specific relationship with Earth.
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2010 10:43 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But, chemtrails are not on that level. As I said. Have a good day.


Translation: "I don't even know the name of the alleged Canadian Colonel I was referring to."

Like I would know the name! LOL. Yah, photographic memory. :P

That's stooopid. Unless a person has a specific reason to remember a factoid like that, it would be unnatural to remember. Are you a 'tard?

Like most people, I remember relevant context. Only with more familiarity with a name or other such detail, would a person without photographic memory remember. What kind of person are you, to mock such a thing?

Or are you so quick to ridicule, that you cannot get to the learning part of life?

AAANNNYYway ... I'll find it for you if you think the name more important than the report. Of course, the fellow could have been misinformed, or misreported, or the whole story a lie (a plant for "propaganda" -- though to what end that would be, I cannot imagine, in this case: what would they be covering up?).

But it was reported. Like a lot in the chemtrail issue -- it's there if you look. <shrug>

Nice day out. Enjoy. Gonna catch some zzzs and then do stuff.
 Quoting: mclarek 981736



Clare, its obvious that you have an agenda and tend to believe everthing you hear that conforms or appears to support your agenda, no matter how factual or not it is. If you're going to make ridiculous claims (i.e. chemtrails) then at least do yourself the favor of providing references, or be prepared to have your claims rejected as nonsense.

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