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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
mclarek
User ID: 986233
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05/31/2010 03:03 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I've heard about this theory but never paid much attention and never interacted with anyone who believed anything like this.

This is as wacky as ZetaTalk.

[...] It took Fetzer 2 years to face it, but now he says he just can't believe how he didn't accept *some* (the hey) evidence sooner: just emotional resistance, on that stuff.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233

To fix my typo first: I meant not "(the hey)" but "(the KEY)" evidence.

As to never hearing of it deeply before, well, <shrug>

It's not so wacky.

As to being like ZT, it's not. This is rather commonplace testable.

It's just that people want SOME part of 9/11 to hang on to.

It would be like saying Oswald didn't even shoot. (He didn't.) -- By the way, there's a new witness who died but left her testament to Marrs, and she said she always feared for her life so not to release it until fter her death, but Oswald was with her the WHOLE TIME downstairs. He wasn't JUST there up to 5 min's before, and within 90 seconds after, which was formerly known. Nope. He was there downstairs waiting for a phone call. (Probably a set-up, to keep him there, on the premises.)

Welcome to reality. It has a lot of fakes; more and moreso, too. Not everything is, but much more than is "nice". Hey, I think even ONE mass-death arrangement, or key political eath is bad enough, don't you?

Sadly, Jones and Bermas don't handle the issues of the fakery or lack of planes. They ridicule it and say they've looked into it, but their comments show they haven't fully. They don't understand the key issue of parallax problems, and have not followed it enough to know there had to be fakery AND no planes. Plus, they didn't like one guy they met -- an eccentric person -- who believed in the lack of planes. And they have been harping on about him ever since, and the idea that "it's kooky".

Well, I knew Costella's key work on the Z film. So I looked into video fakery, and from that, also lack of planes. I didn't look into it because I'd "believe anything" out of hand. I may make mistakes -- and I do find weird things intriguing -- but I followed it because I do know some things about optics and I already followed Costella's work to the bitter end.

(Jack White cried at the end of his own presentation on the photo and film fakery of JFK, at the Duluth 2003 conference. Mistakes or not in some of his work on the case, he's done much for it, and I feel, like him and many others, this stuff is no laughing matter of mere "high strangeness". So yah, moving forward: no planes. Sorry.)

John Lear's signed an affidavit and come on to Fetzer's show several times to discuss it.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 03:16 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So yah, moving forward: no planes. Sorry.)

 Quoting: mclarek 986233
mclarek
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05/31/2010 03:19 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Would you use planes? No. Would they? No. War games: blips, a flyover at the Pentagon, cannisters of jet fuel or similar, in the floors of the WTC, and so on. The rest was video fakery and passenger list (after the fact) fakery.

There is some suggestion a flight ("93") was blown up over the water in Pennsylvania. Some people said there was debris as far as 8 miles away from the bulldozed light scratch in the earth at the "crash site".

But the buildings were destroyed in NYC, and people died. That much happened, out of the gov't story.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 03:23 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So yah, moving forward: no planes. Sorry.)


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583


Your point?

It's not like the planes are "theoretically removed" and it's a nutty idea; there are reasons to know this and that it's easier anyway, to have done it this way.

I thought it's just a "weird idea" first, but it's not just a notion.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 03:35 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I will ask again, Clare. What does this all have to do with the subject of this thread? You could start one of your own and talk about whatever you like. Why do you insist on derailing this one? I guess the only thing we can do is ignore you until you stay on topic or disappear like Luser and Maxipads.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 03:48 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I will ask again, Clare. What does this all have to do with the subject of this thread? You could start one of your own and talk about whatever you like.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953


If she thinks this discussion is uncivil, she'd be in for a rude awakening going into the big GLP swimming pool with this "no plane" crap:


Thread: VIDEO PROOF!!! NO "PLANES" USED ON 911 - TIME TO AWAKE!!!
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:05 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Manual F-Stops with honking bi gloves from chest, with no viewfinder and pefect exposures! HA HA HA
It was a sloppy sham, the Hollywodd part of this.
If they went, fine. But the photos are a studio set-up.

The simple fact is that you haven't seen ALL the mission
photos, only the ones that NASA thought were pretty enough
to publish. They modified the cameras for the astronauts
and you can't even bring yourself to admit that you were
wrong on that. Reality420 has you pegged to a T.
 Quoting: DrPostman


Whaaa? The fact that some were deliberately bad doesn't mean the best were POSSIBLE.

Sure, in a normal roll, there will be good and bad, but get over the fact that some are impossible, were prepared. The best were planned and INTERSPERSED as if it was one roll.

The idea that there are "just some good ones" doesn't handle the key evidence. Nice hypothesis, though. I'd prefer if it were so.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:06 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I will ask again, Clare. What does this all have to do with the subject of this thread? You could start one of your own and talk about whatever you like.


If she thinks this discussion is uncivil, she'd be in for a rude awakening going into the big GLP swimming pool with this "no plane" crap:


Thread: VIDEO PROOF!!! NO "PLANES" USED ON 911 - TIME TO AWAKE!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Oh ha ha ha.

Crap? Have you read what I posted? Surely facts are not your forte.

The fact that people wish to slam people for facts is NOT my problem; it's theirs.

Account for the facts any other way -- all the facts, in their relationships.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I will ask again, Clare. What does this all have to do with the subject of this thread? You could start one of your own and talk about whatever you like. Why do you insist on derailing this one? I guess the only thing we can do is ignore you until you stay on topic or disappear like Luser and Maxipads.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953

Someone else brought this up, as an accusation. I answered with the actual facts of the case. Most people don't know them. They think the "idea" is too crazy; but if there's support, it's not crazy. In fact, it makes more sense than planes, which are unwieldy and messy.

<shrug>

It's not impossible, not even implausible -- just not "pleasant". What other parts of 9/11 do you hang onto like a teddy bear?

Really, there's nothing to hold onto.
Silver_Wolfen
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05/31/2010 04:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It definitly won't be choice 4 When Zetatalk "chat" retires from GLP. Nancys Planet x prediction failed in 2003 yet they're still here and have plenty of followers.


By what stretch can you call a rancid sockpuppet, an attack slug and the village idiot "plenty of followers."

Clearly you know a definition of the word "plenty" I was previously unaware of.


Hey bro.

Now let's watch and witness the silly rancid sockpuppet, the attack slug and the village idiot.....go crazy bump ing the zetababble shit threads. Their delusional rantings between each other should be fun to behold.

:lol4me: Actually it might be worth a good long laugh I reckon.



Right you are, gonna be comedy GOLD! Want to bet they turn on each other?
 Quoting: The Commentator


They won't be turning on each other, because Nancy tells them what to think. They share one brain between the three of them and it's all to feed her ego! Truth is without her they are nothing and would fade into obscurity. Their site is filled with people who practically worship the Zeta messages.

Her Highness the Chosen Emissary of the Zetas.

I wonder how she explains away the fact that her precious Zetas let her believe that px was coming in 2003 as she maxed out her credit cards. And then claimed a little white lie.

Yeppers, a lot of respect and love in that house , lol. abduct
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 04:17 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Whatever Clare. I don't care about your pseudo facts, and you don't care if you are derailing this thread. You are like that neighbour that invites himself to your party and then demands to be the center of attention. I will ignore you from here on. Your grasp on reason and fact is right up there with Freestore's.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 04:21 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Have you read what I posted? Surely facts are not your forte.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233

lmao

Sorry, but that's really funny!

At this point I'm half expecting the "holograms generated by shapeshifting reptilians" theory to pop up here.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:22 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
George B: The F-117A was "acknowledged" and revealed to the world in November 1988.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

DrPostman: George, [...]

I'm pretty sure that if I dug a little further I could
find articles for you about stealth aircraft from Aviation
Week or Popular Mechanics from back before Panama.
 Quoting: DrPostman


Some things, like Lewinsky for Clinton, are leaked, even promoted (for various reasons).

Some things are not leaked, or rather, only noticed by those looking already ... for quite a while.
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 04:23 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Whatever Clare. I don't care about your pseudo facts, and you don't care if you are derailing this thread. You are like that neighbour that invites himself to your party and then demands to be the center of attention. I will ignore you from here on. Your grasp on reason and fact is right up there with Freestore's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953



It proberly is freestore or one of his idiotic muppet friends.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:26 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Have you read what I posted? Surely facts are not your forte.

lmao

Sorry, but that's really funny!

At this point I'm half expecting the "holograms generated by shapeshifting reptilians" theory to pop up here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Nope.

What's your issue with the facts of parallax fakery, black box flyover at the Pentagon, SSNs still active, no physical parts (except a couple of plants, some of them identifiable from the wrong planes), and so on?

I know, when I first heard of it I thought it was just people having a wild deam with the whole 9/11 myth -- taking it too far -- but there is good evidence AND it's actually easier for the perps.

It was mostly computer blips and war games hijacked for the day. So, why have planes that could miss and be messier? There was no oil cleanup at the Pentagon, no massive parts -- no parts known at all -- in the tower wreckage, and nothing in the bulldozed cartoon-cutout 15-20 foot deep central "hole" at Shanksville.

It was smoke and mirrors. It's EASIER to do that.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:29 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Whatever Clare. I don't care about your pseudo facts, and you don't care if you are derailing this thread. You are like that neighbour that invites himself to your party and then demands to be the center of attention. I will ignore you from here on. Your grasp on reason and fact is right up there with Freestore's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953

Read the facts, AC.

They are not pseudo.

Read John Lear's affidavit -- he even went to court with it.

NO PLANES NEEDED/ none used. What's so scary to you about that? Think militarily. EASIER/CHEAPER/SURE THING.

Why do you need planes? Just to make the masses happier?

Think strategically and like the lazy Dr Strangeloves.
THE DOOM

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05/31/2010 04:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy is fucking GONE!!

Just drop it now will ya's??

For fucks sake,,its dragged on LONG enough...and we have REAL fucking DOOM lurking now..not some imaginary planet that inspires people to eat dogs to deal with now.

FUK...just let it DIE!
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 04:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What's your issue with the facts of parallax fakery, black box flyover at the Pentagon, SSNs still active, no physical parts (except a couple of plants, some of them identifiable from the wrong planes), and so on?

 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Let's see.

For starters:

[link to www.msnbc.msn.com]

"The Justice Department will hold a two-hour briefing for family members who lost relatives on the four planes that were hijacked on Sept. 11, 2001, NBC News has learned. The meeting, to be held June 4 in Princeton, N.J., is sure to be emotional for the 100-plus family members who plan to attend. The meeting will be closed to the media.

Prosecutors will play audio recordings of phone calls between individuals on the planes and family members or co-workers on the ground — recordings that have never aired anywhere before. For example, NBC has learned that the Justice Department will play a tape that an American Airlines official made on 9/11 that is a blow-by-blow account of the final words of Amy Sweeney, a flight attendant on Flight 11. Sweeney is reknowned for having calmly called her co-workers on 9/11 and providing the seat locations for Mohammed Atta and the other hijackers, physical descriptions of the terrorists, and what she said appeared to be a bomb on board the plane.

The Justice Department also intends to play an audiotape of a conversation between Betty Ong, a flight attendant on American Airlines Flight 11 that crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center, and Nydia Gonzalez, an American Airlines reservation manager. The commission investigating the attacks played 4-½ minutes of the tape at a hearing in January, but the Justice Department intends to play the entire 23-minute tape at the closed briefing, according to 9/11 family members."
Silver_Wolfen
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05/31/2010 04:41 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I called attention to the fact that "Zetas" say the effects of PX are a natural event and not to be interfered with, but 'they' are are interfereing like crazy. Just one more of the many, many contradictions.


"They" mean they will not interfere with it to STOP IT, as people keep asking -- whereas they are interfering to keep things calm as long as possible and give us a chance to prepare, supposedly.




Nonsense. 'They' are interfering with the NATURAL effects of PX on Earth (allegedly). the whole tilting, wobbling, orbit-stopping (allegedly) is PART of the whole 'pole shift' scenario.
 Quoting: Menow 441617



She claims they have the technology and wherewithal to create the illusion of normalcy in our seasons to give the common man/woman a chance to prepare and awaken to the reality of px. Yet the oil spill which will kill lord knows how many ecosystems as it spreads from the gulf coast to other oceans depending on how severe the hurricane season will be. And that they state is in the hands of man because they cannot intervene. Sounds like bs to me bsflag

Am I the only one who thinks it strange that all those recaps of alien abductions which are reported as perpetrated by Zeta Recticuli grays? Just like Nancy's all wonderful service to other Zetas isn't that rather strange? Can we say Jekyll and Hyde? I mean do they come with some kind of label disclaimer that says "We didn't do it, that was my evil twin"! STO and STS rather convenient labels for the Zeta stories aren't they ? abduct
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:49 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953


In deference to your feeling -- and that's all it is, at root --

When Fetzer asked Lear if there was one thing about the Pentagon not having a plane which he would bring up, what would it be?, Lear said: I'll give you three:

April Gallop, April Gallop, April Gallop.

She was 40 feet from the "huge plane" inside the Pentagon and she said she smelled only cordite, no jet fuel.


She refused to "unremember" her experience, when visited in the hospital by "suits".

Others, too, smelled only cordite.

She was interviewed by A Jones, by the way: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EcpiPL6kw4

And this is no pseudo fact. As I hope you can appreciate. Maybe one fact, instead of them all, won't send you screaming.

Of course, there's more, as Lear outlined (and others, too). By the way, for this most distinguished civilian US pilot, and son of the Lear Jet designer, there's NO WIKIPEDIA PAGE, because when he started exposing the lack of planes on 9/11, they took him OFF, rather than have people respecting his other accomplishments easily link to the info.

Other "woo woo" ideas get coverage, but a key person saying there's real evidence? Nope. Off Spookipedia (i.e., Wikipedia in a few key controlled situations).
mclarek
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05/31/2010 04:51 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She claims they have the technology and wherewithal to create the illusion of normalcy in our seasons to give the common man/woman a chance to prepare and awaken to the reality of px. Yet the oil spill which will kill lord knows how many ecosystems as it spreads from the gulf coast to other oceans depending on how severe the hurricane season will be. And that they state is in the hands of man because they cannot intervene. Sounds like bs to me
 Quoting: Silver_Wolfen 987377


This sounds like B.S. to me, too. I think the idea very weird.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 05:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What's your issue with the facts of parallax fakery, black box flyover at the Pentagon, SSNs still active, no physical parts (except a couple of plants, some of them identifiable from the wrong planes), and so on?



Let's see.

For starters:

[link to www.msnbc.msn.com]

"The Justice Department will hold a two-hour briefing for family members who lost relatives on the four planes that were hijacked on Sept. 11, 2001, NBC News has learned. [...]
Prosecutors will play audio recordings of phone calls between individuals on the planes and family members or co-workers on the ground — recordings that have never aired anywhere before.[...]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583


I didn't snip b/c I didn't read what you posted. I snipped simply for brevity.

ALL voice recordings can be faked. And in this case, they HAVE to be. There were no plane wreckages AND there were video parallax problems. There were no parts (except identifiable plants, and few of those), the trajectories don't work, and the "93" calls were not possible at that time.

There was no jet fuel at the Pentagon or Shanksville. Usually, it's a mini ecological disaster when a plane hits.

And the planes would have bounced off the 14 floors of steel re-inforced concrete in NYC. The engines may have gone through if they hit right. The rest of a plane ... into that? Nope. Yet the "holes" were like Wile E. Coyote into a wall: nice wing tip cut-outs over 14 floors, perfect.

So bad was the fake impression that one of the guys who was involved in making the fake TV vids said, "It looks just like a Hollywood special effect, but this time it's real," to cut your brain off at the pass: make you think that if you realized it does look like that, well, that's just what you're supposed to think it is NOT.

So, these tapes have to be fake. They have excellent voice fakery available now.

However, it is possible they got voice samples from those about to die, to help the impostering. "We who are about to die speak to you!" More likely, it'll be crackly enough that people won't be able to tell. And anyway, most of those who disappeared were linked to gov't work. Funny, that. So maybe they have actual voice samples.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 05:08 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Prosecutors will play audio recordings of phone calls between individuals on the planes and family members or co-workers on the ground — recordings that have never aired anywhere before. For example, NBC has learned that the Justice Department will play a tape that an American Airlines official made on 9/11 that is a blow-by-blow account of the final words of Amy Sweeney, a flight attendant on Flight 11. Sweeney is reknowned for having calmly called her co-workers on 9/11 and providing the seat locations for Mohammed Atta and the other hijackers, physical descriptions of the terrorists, and what she said appeared to be a bomb on board the plane.

The Justice Department also intends to play an audiotape of a conversation between Betty Ong, a flight attendant on American Airlines Flight 11 that crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center, and Nydia Gonzalez, an American Airlines reservation manager. The commission investigating the attacks played 4-½ minutes of the tape at a hearing in January, but the Justice Department intends to play the entire 23-minute tape at the closed briefing, according to 9/11 family members."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

By the way, note: one of these isn't even faked as a tape: it seems to be just an account taped that day.

By the way, most probably thought they were on a drill. Hence, Sweeney's calm call, if it was such.
mclarek
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05/31/2010 05:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
'Night, all. (Or rather, Mornin'!)
Menow
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05/31/2010 09:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
To all those who want me gone, I'm gone.


Best wishes,
Me
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


!?
Anonymous Coward
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05/31/2010 09:22 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
By the way, from your last post, Returner, the spelling is "ad nauseam". It's accusative (an ending for when the noun is a direct object or with certain prepositions, such as "ad" here). It's a feminine noun of a common type, not accusative neuter or masculine; the latter ends in -um for nouns which are of a certain type.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233 replying to Reality420 on pg 586

Clare, you can't even tell the difference between Returner and Reality420 and yet you claim to be speaking of facts. Actual facts are not what you present. What you generally present is just sloppy work as can be seen in many cases like this example of confusing two posters.
Menow
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05/31/2010 09:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Answered several times, by several people. The Moon's orbit is not at any special "level", so stop repeating that nonsense. The Moon possesses angular momentum which would certainly not dissappear if its Earth-orbit was halted.



I meant to say that the Moon's *rotation* is not at any special 'level'. It is simply rotating. Nothing less, nothing more.

You are being illucid. Of course it's rotating; but in synch with our position (in tidal lock with us).
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You are now in the position of explaining tidal lock to those whom have repeatedly explained it to YOU?

So, imagine the E-M system stopped and you see revolution around the Earth, not only from the Earth but from other points.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You just said exactly nothing.

The revolution is an illusion (one level, one relative motion) but in fact over space the Moon is seen rotating and NOT revolving around the Earth.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


I guess you're talking about some special thought exercise now, but who can tell?

Which point of view is "true", Menow?
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


The Moon's rotation is seen from space, but understood from Earth if one understands that it is orbiting Earth. Not rocket science, so to speak.

Physically, the rotation might be said to be truer; but relativity-wise, both are.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


To your warped, over-amped view of the world, perhaps.

And since the angular momentum won't cease, which is right, if the Moon were halted, then FROM WHAT RELATIVITY POINT OF VIEW would it be rotating?
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


What is a "RELATIVITY POINT OF VIEW"? You're inventing nonsense terms again and trying to cram reality into them.
It ain't workin'.

Would the Earth see it? Likely not.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Of course it would. What would keep Earth from 'seeing' the Moon rotating in the sky?

Its tidal lock would not just cease, right?
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Of course it would.

So how about from the Sun? Nope. But it would still be rotating relative to the Galaxy. So yes, it would still conserve momentum.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You're saying that the Moon with its Solar orbit halted would not seem to rotate from the Sun? That's just silly.
YOU are silly, overall, Clare.
Menow
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05/31/2010 09:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
April Gallop, April Gallop, April Gallop.

She was 40 feet from the "huge plane" inside the Pentagon and she said she smelled only cordite, no jet fuel.

 Quoting: mclarek 986233


So now the average office-worker knows what cordite smells like?
George B

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05/31/2010 10:04 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
April Gallop, April Gallop, April Gallop.

She was 40 feet from the "huge plane" inside the Pentagon and she said she smelled only cordite, no jet fuel.



So now the average office-worker knows what cordite smells like?
 Quoting: Menow 441617

Many, many workers at the Pentagon are very familiar with the smell of cordite. Even the office workers.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Menow
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05/31/2010 10:14 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
April Gallop, April Gallop, April Gallop.

She was 40 feet from the "huge plane" inside the Pentagon and she said she smelled only cordite, no jet fuel.



So now the average office-worker knows what cordite smells like?

Many, many workers at the Pentagon are very familiar with the smell of cordite. Even the office workers.
 Quoting: George B


And you can tell the relative altitude of planes from thousands of feet below them, and also the atmospheric conditions in which each is flying.

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