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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
mclarek
User ID: 986233
Canada
06/13/2010 03:38 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
To Skinny Puppy, DrPostman (if involved) and George B:

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people on GLP so quickly turn to personal attacks and insults to make a point. Is everyone hyperactive and needs ritalin? Clare you have taken some real nasty remarks and you have been generally nice in return . . . speaks well for your character.
 Quoting: George B


Yah, thanks. Now supposedly there's a warning about "question campaigns".

I don't know what they meant but anyway, because others wanted to slam me I replied for days.

Now we're on PX again (and related issues) but occasionally the other topics get referred to by someone who is still insisting they are normal hypothetical thinkers when they clearly can't adjust their hypothesis to fit the circumstances: intelligence ops make things un-normal. :)

This is true, too, if PX is here. There would be all kinds of cover-up.

Lastly, I have had to reply in long posts today, so probably whoever Skinny Puppy is was called in by DrPostman.

The irony! Because these posts were mostly on PX stuff: SOHO imagery and Electromagnetism in the Earth as CHARGE on the Earth, as it might be affected if a PX were here.

People asked me massively detailed Q&A style posts in the last day (Astronut and others) and from 2 days ago (74444) -- and were slamming me for not getting back to them -- Astronut AND 74444 and others.

What irony!

Oh well. I tried to get onto PX again a long time ago.

But others were so upset at what I said when I defended myself against a stupid slander of several major events that were conspiracies ... that it took days.

We are now on PX-related topics again -- except for the odd segue of return of the other topics. So do consider that, please. TY
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 763624
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06/13/2010 03:52 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
To Skinny Puppy, DrPostman (if involved) and George B:

snip

Yah, thanks. Now supposedly there's a warning about "question campaigns".

snip

Lastly, I have had to reply in long posts today, so probably whoever Skinny Puppy is was called in by DrPostman.

snip
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


She's not the brightest spark around is she???

(A senior mod doesn't need to call in an unregistered user to issue warnings clunk....)
Shows how observant she really is LOL
mclarek
User ID: 986233
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06/13/2010 03:56 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
She's not the brightest spark around is she???

(A senior mod doesn't need to call in an unregistered user to issue warnings clunk....)
Shows how observant she really is LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 763624



I don't know mods and seniors and stuff. I thought DrPostman was a mod. He is, then! But how do you tell if someone's registered?

I don't know this site inside out. I've only known of it for 4 months. :)
mclarek
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06/13/2010 04:04 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people on GLP so quickly turn to personal attacks and insults to make a point. Is everyone hyperactive and needs ritalin? Clare you have taken some real nasty remarks and you have been generally nice in return . . . speaks well for your character.

Are you ignoring where Clare has done a fair share of name
calling?

And I see that she's decided to try to invoke the bogus
claim that any astronomers died in that cable car accident.
Not a single one of them was an astronomer. They were all
workers who lived locally. Unless, of course, Clare would
like to offer the name of JUST ONE astronomer who died in
that cable car crash in France in 1999.
 Quoting: DrPostman



Hi. Um let's get real: my name-calling was BACK and pretty moderate, tyvm.

And I always retracted for decency wherever possible.

I didn't sit there and insult and bait. I replied with force but not nastiness of intent --- a bit of normal fatigue or impatience or nasty back. This is normal and flexibly honest, not what was being done to me.


As to all my claims -- they are what I've run into -- but sometimes I mis-read, of course. I do try to correct if I'm wrong for sure, of course.

As to the claim about the astronomers:
You are right. I found the article and it says it was staff. THANKS! Good-o. (Not that they died. For THEY did -- !)

Here's the link.

[link to www.independent.co.uk]

cool2
mclarek
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06/13/2010 04:05 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Good night/ good day all.

:)

xo ;)
mclarek
User ID: 986233
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06/13/2010 04:12 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
LMFAO! Not that I agree with them, but that's a far cry from claiming asteroid impacts don't happen.

I am not saying there is the idea we've NEVER been hit;

That's what you were saying. You've now changed horses.

It is the FEAR OF CATASTROPHE of which I am speaking.

Which doesn't exist. If anything, astronomers are promising it and have been for quite a while.
 Quoting: Astronut


This stuff, Astronut, is picky but looks true.

I was expressing myself in shorthand and though you're right to question what I meant, I do not "fail" or whatever when conversing and getting an idea out incompletely enough that it seems contradictory.

Also, astronomers DIDN'T USED TO SAY things hit us and caused global disaster. They have begun to -- but it took a lot of pressure from geologists and THOSE were not okay with the idea either .. etc.

There is a history to this suppression of global catastrophes (at one point taking a partly justified, partly unjustifed anti-Bible bent ... but they "threw the Mammoths out with the Floodwater", as I once titled an University essay).
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 08:34 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Clare does type the way she talks. She talks a lot and constantly, unable to shut up for a moment. Unable to talk about one issue but changing the issues constantly. And so there's more talk by mclarek, never ending, unless Planet X shows up and kills her. So there will be neverending talk by mclarek unless there's another way to kill the troll.

As to the rest: there is a difference between exactitude of analysis where possible, and losing the point of the analysis.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Yes there is a difference, but you can't make a point in your overall analysis if your analysis isn't based on exactitude in details. When your details that you use as presumptions, are wrong, your whole analysis is wrong.

Many people here do think in a myopic manner: to suggest that the Colaios "have memorials" when the whole point is they DIDN'T ... and now DO …
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


And how do you know, Clare, that the info wasn't brought into the site used by your dear & trustworthy ”sources” from elsewhere, for instance another website? You've got one screenshot by September Clues website, but you have no proof of that info not having existed anywhere before.

September Clues is using CNN website as ”the original source of the death reports” (in their Vicsim Report), which is false. CNN is in no way the original firsthand source. September Clues is making similar mistakes all the way and that's how they can represent all their lies as ”fact”. You believing their lies or misrepresentations is not research or proper analysis. You are simply wrong.

It is not mere unfamiliarity however which makes people here sugest a news article can trump fakery of a photo in importance, even if a person ultimaley turns up!

And it is not mere unfamiliarity with the site which makes the notion bloom for someone -- who then suggests that Sept. Clues must be the liers, when all their work shows they link to their sources and where the SOURCES CHANGE to cover their asses they cover that too.

A small familiarity with their work would show that the notion SC is faking is the opposite of the situation.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


That September Clues is faking should be obvious for anyone with brain. Clare doesn't even consider that possibility. I suspect that no amount of evidence will change that firm belief in their trustworthiness.

The Twin Towers the Orange and September Clues:
[link to video.google.com]

Using secondary sources is not acceptable scientific research.

But even so, the clarity of the mass of evidence of fakery which takes a shrt while to see, would show you you were more likely dealing with an intelligence op than a Sept. Clues attack on victims.

So ... then, these "miopic" persons here would be thrown back on how to explain the Colaio non-memorials until now (new and back dated as they are now)?

So who is losing themself in "miopia"? So many here! I see the forest for the trees and can give relative weight to evidence and not produce inadequate articles to "prove there's no fakery" -- just because I want a victim to be real.

I can think of how a victim could be real AND there be fakes, and some reasons why.

Plus, I can recognize the basic fakery and DETAILS of it, if I NEED to. But that's not my purpose once that's done: it is thinking on the totality! So, yes, I have both capacities carefully developed and therefore am not likely to misuse them.

If you stay on the big you may miss a changing featrue of detail; if you stay on the detail you may refuse to switch everything around in order.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Not only does September Clues use secondary sources but they twist them too to maintain their sad hoax.

In the end of the Vicsim Report (PDF-file 4,67 MB [link to www.septemberclues.info] ) researcher by the name of Hoi Polloi says that: ”There are absolutely no assurances I can give you that I am a real person anymore – none, especially, that couldn’t be exploited by the simulation operators to come up with creative solutions to their numerous and deserved tribulations. As such, I give you 1 lie and 3 facts, in no particular order and leave you to sort it out: I have a BFA in comic book art from the Minneapolis College of Art and Design, a school which causes students to go into debt up to their eye-balls. The art world is being cajoled and abused by bad artists and corporations. I am nothing but a robotic automaton funded by MIT and the Merry Christmas Institute to defend against the discovery of alien beings who eat children on Halloween night. My name is Maxeem Konrardy and I am 26 years old.
Always do your homework, even if it’s turned in late. Love, hoi.polloi”

Maxeem Konrardy is a cartoonist AND a 9/11 CT-loon (easily verified with Google). Clare trusts a cartoonist in optical, technical and physical matters as well as a ”trustworthy researcher”.

It is the latter paragraph which sums up the tendency here on this thread of some people.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Sure this is all ”just detail” for Clare who supposedly is seeing ”the bigger picture”.

Clare, you haven't even started to see the bigger picture of fakes, frauds, charlatans, hoaxers, con artists and like. You haven't a clue about media, optics, frauds, and how those can be used to create fakes. You don't see the bigger picture. You've been hoaxed with details.

I have a very good grasp of the big and small re. the fakery issues. You don't: a news article doesn't undo fakery even if the people were real. There's something going on and most are likely to be in fact blated numbers for WAR.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You don't grasp these fakery issues at all, Clare. You're so easily duped it's almost unbelievable.

I am being exact when I can and ALSO working through the hypothetical possibilities and necessities which flow from the relative BREADTH of each feature's merits.
.................................
But ... to be exact and perhaps a bit unkind back for all the nastiness you've spewed at me over these pages ... it's "myopia" except in Italian and so on, so it's listed as "miopia" in one dictionary which redirects to myopia.

And the plural of "minutia" is "minutiae". (Fem. singular/fem. plural)
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You're being exact when you can? So you're being exact when pointing out the typos of others but you still can't write Wainio's name correctly!
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 946069
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06/13/2010 09:43 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yet another nail in Nancy's "Earth halted in it's orbit"
nonsense is Retrograde Motion. Today we have the Astronomy
Pic Of The Day a time-lapse series for Mars showing the most
recent retrograde motion of the planet:
[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]

Images like that would be impossible if the earth were not
continuing in it's orbit.
 Quoting: DrPostman


What are you talking about? Don't you remember? The "Zetas" are making everything appear normal. They're absolute gods!
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
dung beetle
User ID: 814500
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06/13/2010 09:53 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yet another nail in Nancy's "Earth halted in it's orbit"
nonsense is Retrograde Motion. Today we have the Astronomy
Pic Of The Day a time-lapse series for Mars showing the most
recent retrograde motion of the planet:
[link to antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov]

Images like that would be impossible if the earth were not
continuing in it's orbit.


What are you talking about? Don't you remember? The "Zetas" are making everything appear normal. They're absolute gods!
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker

we are gods!!!....

get with the program.....

come on...big guy....u ought to know that us gods have the right to alter future, past, and present events to suit our needs....learn from the best....
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 09:54 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
2nd, nobody handled the Colaios. They sent the CURRENT MEMORIALS ... which were not there in 2009. In 2009 there was ONE message each, from the same "Desiree" and it was from 2003.

One mention.
Back in 2003.

 Quoting: mclarek 986233


And by the way, I figure out this bit of misinformation you've been spouting over and over.

You and your September Clueless friends are mixing up two separate memorial pages.

The one with the lone entries from "Desiree" is from CNN and IS STILL ONLINE:
[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.cnn.com]

On the other hand you have the Legacy.com national obituary listing with pages and pages of tributes from family, friends and co-workers most of whom left their full names and location:


[link to www.legacy.com]
[link to www.legacy.com]


So much for your bullshit about the memorial page being altered after the fact.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 10:14 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You and your September Clueless friends are mixing up two separate memorial pages.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583


I take that back. It's not a mistake, they deliberately twisted the truth about this in their material. After looking at their material again I see they mention the legacy.com site but still use screen shots of the CNN pages to back up their bullshit claim.
Menow
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06/13/2010 10:31 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Console yourself away, Astronut. You didn't even realize you have to do a PROPORTIONAL DISTANCE test if you're going to test the fakery.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233



You mean YOU do, dear. It's YOUR whacky conspiracy theory!
George B

User ID: 976283
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06/13/2010 10:35 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people on GLP so quickly turn to personal attacks and insults to make a point. Is everyone hyperactive and needs ritalin? Clare you have taken some real nasty remarks and you have been generally nice in return . . . speaks well for your character.

Are you ignoring where Clare has done a fair share of name
calling?

And I see that she's decided to try to invoke the bogus
claim that any astronomers died in that cable car accident.
Not a single one of them was an astronomer. They were all
workers who lived locally. Unless, of course, Clare would
like to offer the name of JUST ONE astronomer who died in
that cable car crash in France in 1999.
 Quoting: DrPostman

I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Menow
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06/13/2010 10:40 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
just MIGHT


 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Then again, you just might be a nut.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 10:41 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!
 Quoting: George B


Tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims.
Menow
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06/13/2010 10:54 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But as to the rest: NANCY DIDN'T LEAVE OUT THE PROBLEM AREA TO VENUS'S TOPSIDE RIGHT. She showed in the video AND her pages that there was a whole-area movement, not just Venus.

That much she DID do.


 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Nancy MISREPRESENTED the content and meaning of the images, like she ALWAYS does. This is how she has built Zetatalk... on falsehood at a time, for 15 years.
Menow
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06/13/2010 10:55 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Dear Astronut -- or anyone else:

My Windows says it doesn't recognize .FTS file extensions and when I searched the Web from that page, the options seem to require searching my registry and downloading software to read it.

Any advice? I don't want to just click and download possibly suspicious software.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


You have to open it with the software Astronaut linked you to, you insufferable boob.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 11:01 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people on GLP so quickly turn to personal attacks and insults to make a point. Is everyone hyperactive and needs ritalin? Clare you have taken some real nasty remarks and you have been generally nice in return . . . speaks well for your character.

Are you ignoring where Clare has done a fair share of name
calling?

And I see that she's decided to try to invoke the bogus
claim that any astronomers died in that cable car accident.
Not a single one of them was an astronomer. They were all
workers who lived locally. Unless, of course, Clare would
like to offer the name of JUST ONE astronomer who died in
that cable car crash in France in 1999.
 Quoting: DrPostman


Not a one an astronomer or scientist:

[link to www.zetasquawk.com]
Menow
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06/13/2010 11:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And Astronut--another thing she's doing is probing for pertinent technical jargon to make herself look like she knows what she's talking about in the future when trying to sell this crap to the uninformed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583


Yes. Clare has been picking up 'jargon' and then sprinkling it liberally into her posts. She usually uses it wrong, but it makes her SEEM to know what she is talking about, to the uninitiated. That is CLASSIC Nancy Lieder M.O.
Menow
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06/13/2010 11:04 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And Astronut--another thing she's doing is probing for pertinent technical jargon to make herself look like she knows what she's talking about in the future when trying to sell this crap to the uninformed.

She should never have tried to take on Astronut. He knows his
stuff and she's tripping all over herself trying not to look
ignorant with her replies to him.

No. His experiment was inconclusive AND HE KNOWS IT.

Notice the SILENCE FROM HIM ON THAT ISSUE SINCE I BROUGHT IT UP.

I keep raising it and he keeps ignoring it -- just saying I should do the test. :) But I would do a DIFFERENT test, a real one, if I had the equipment handy.

:O)
 Quoting: mclarek 986233



No, you said you don't NEED to do that experiment because you just KNOW the answers already.
Menow
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06/13/2010 11:12 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
if we would see it if it were directly near or in front of the Sun, if it were hidden in a dust cloud that our AMATEUR telescopes -- good as they are -- might not distinguish it from solar effects near the Sun. Just wondering. Not being stupid; just don't know.
 Quoting: mclarek 986233


Yes, you're being stupid. You claim to be logical, but think a planet might be able to hide in a dust cloud.

Get a grip, Clare.
Menow
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06/13/2010 11:17 AM
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As to the claim about the astronomers:
You are right. I found the article and it says it was staff. THANKS! Good-o. (Not that they died. For THEY did -- !)

Here's the link.

[link to www.independent.co.uk]

cool2
 Quoting: mclarek 986233



Yes. And 99% of what people think they 'know' about the PX story is exactly like that... false stories, mostly started by Nancy Lieder, and repeated over and over again as if they were factual.
George B

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06/13/2010 02:28 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!


Tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 969583

Let's just say in your wildest imagination that Clare is proven to be correct . . . is she then still a bane to the 9/11 victims and family?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 908953
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06/13/2010 02:37 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!


Tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims.

Let's just say in your wildest imagination that Clare is proven to be correct . . . is she then still a bane to the 9/11 victims and family?
 Quoting: George B

But she isn't correct. She doesn't even understand what she is looking at. Several posters here have infinitely more experience with images than Clare, but she doesn't sit back and learn from them. Instead she baits them and tries to pass herself off as more knowledgeable. She didn't even know what GIMP is. ROFLMAO. Her sources are youtube videos (hint: most of what gets posted on youtube is sensationalist crap, serious videomakers avoid youtube like the clap, there are other ways to get your video out on the net). She also relies on the likes of Lear, Hoaxland, and many others that have zero credibility.

I am really tired of scrolling past her ignorant and arrogant diatribes. She is a troll.
George B

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06/13/2010 02:58 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!


Tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims.

Let's just say in your wildest imagination that Clare is proven to be correct . . . is she then still a bane to the 9/11 victims and family?

But she isn't correct. She doesn't even understand what she is looking at. Several posters here have infinitely more experience with images than Clare, but she doesn't sit back and learn from them. Instead she baits them and tries to pass herself off as more knowledgeable. She didn't even know what GIMP is. ROFLMAO. Her sources are youtube videos (hint: most of what gets posted on youtube is sensationalist crap, serious videomakers avoid youtube like the clap, there are other ways to get your video out on the net). She also relies on the likes of Lear, Hoaxland, and many others that have zero credibility.

I am really tired of scrolling past her ignorant and arrogant diatribes. She is a troll.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953

BTW . . . Are you MakingItReal? I know she can be a pain but many on the Threads are . . . I will admit she is unique in her energy and tenacity . . .
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
KeepingItReal

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06/13/2010 04:19 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Haha. Yeah, it's me. Keep forgetting to log in.

Zetasquawk is back online:
[link to www.zetasquawk.com]
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
mclarek
User ID: 986233
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06/13/2010 04:40 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not only does September Clues use secondary sources but they twist them too to maintain their sad hoax.

In the end of the Vicsim Report (PDF-file 4,67 MB [link to www.septemberclues.info] ) researcher by the name of Hoi Polloi says that: ”There are absolutely no assurances I can give you that I am a real person anymore – none, especially, that couldn’t be exploited by the simulation operators to come up with creative solutions to their numerous and deserved tribulations. As such, I give you 1 lie and 3 facts, in no particular order and leave you to sort it out: I have a BFA in comic book art from the Minneapolis College of Art and Design, a school which causes students to go into debt up to their eye-balls. The art world is being cajoled and abused by bad artists and corporations. I am nothing but a robotic automaton funded by MIT and the Merry Christmas Institute to defend against the discovery of alien beings who eat children on Halloween night. My name is Maxeem Konrardy and I am 26 years old.
Always do your homework, even if it’s turned in late. Love, hoi.polloi”

Maxeem Konrardy is a cartoonist AND a 9/11 CT-loon (easily verified with Google). Clare trusts a cartoonist in optical, technical and physical matters as well as a ”trustworthy researcher”.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001905


What you suggest is "getting the details right" is allowing you to lose the forest for the trees AGAIN.

I have much experience sifting through people's work on alternative sites/books/videos. What you find is people mis-speak, they make mistakes, they come from everywhere, they make spurious claims and then make excellent claims -- and on the latter, they

YOU call that loony. I call it REAL. Real people are a MIX. A mixed bag. There are people who go out and collect rocks all day, being wild-eyes and back-road types who are the area's kook, but boy they do know stuff. It's mixed with all kinds of odds and sodds, but they know stuff.

And sometimes those "loons" come up with great insights, even if they are not the ones to develop them.

So: that the woman is a cartoonist has nothing to do with anything. That she knows of many, or has even "fallen for" some mistaken CTs, is irrelevant.

The issue is the work.

Now, OF COURSE she cannot prove a given instance of the names. We are looking at PATTERNS here: too many sections of human-manipulated symmetric name-patterns.

Also, they may or may not have used mass photo Sim programs on the victim photos; if they did not, it does not matter. The insight, to present IT correctly, dear "get the details right" person, is that there was some kind of manipulation and mass creation of personages.

Some photos may have been done in a morph program. Those FDNY guys (black and white) sure seem to have been.

But most fakes -- Wainio and Beamer, for example -- which are pasty heads, would have been photoshopped instead.

You STILL are not getting your details right in suggesting that details have no CONTEXT.

At least in suggesting that Sept Clues must have been uncareful where they pull things from, you are actually admitting that the fakes are fakes: they look wrong on many levels.

But think of this, for your details: Even if Sept Clues got a few which were from odd places and wrong, or CNN got some from wrong places, DON'T YOU THINK SOME OF THESE FAKES WOULD BE DECRIED BY THE FAMILIES AND FRIENDS?

Same with the idea that Sept Clues might conclude incorrectly a given set looked suspicious and it could have been a very weird pair of people who did look similar, or two photos which weren't exact duplicates which looked to Sept Clues like duplicates. I am sure there are a couple of these in there. I have thought so of about 3 myself.

But the bulk are OBVIOUS or are DEFINITE AND OBVIOUS BUT ONLY WHEN YOU REALLY COMPARE AND KNOW SOMETHING.

This cannot be a mass of co-incidence NOR can it be some of these are okay: some are DEFINITELY not okay: Wainio's portraits are flips/cut-outs.

The context of the work by Sept Clues is a mass intelligence op; it also is a database of video which is NOW CHANGED AS WELL.

I repeat for you: you are NOT handling the details to suggest that the Colaio screen shot came from another Website. The context is clear: Sept Clues put up the link at the time -- and I saw it a year ago (which now links to the changed page).

You are also wrong to say that Sept Clues is "wrong" because they "use secondhand information".

The information for the TV fakery videos CAME OFF THE NEWS AGENCIES' OWN WEBSITE and the original memorial DVDs. Besides, don't you REMEMBER some of those clips?


Nice try. Your cross-examination fails. The Colaios were back-dated with new memorials and the massive number of Wainio freezes (one more, possibly two even presented here from sites) show clear forgery.

If they simply were from people's manipulation Websites, instead of various memorial sites, you might have a point.

There's also the fact that Wainio, etc. etc. etc. could be real people who were framed after death to stand for about a thousand low-grade simulation/name creation/photo manipulation frauds.


It is the latter paragraph which sums up the tendency here on this thread of some people.

Sure this is all ”just detail” for Clare who supposedly is seeing ”the bigger picture”.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001905


You misrepresent what "the bigger picture" means.

It means many things at different points: sometimes it means the low likelihood of well-inentioned researchers to fake evidence themselves; sometimes it means knowing what KINDS of mistakes could creep in, and how often, versus saying "mistakes could be made". Sometimes it's knowing some other context, such as the names coding. Sometimes it's knowing about other aspects of intelligence and 9.11 or knowing about how to remember always to work through every aspect of every hypothesis.

Then you know what a PATTERN is: you won't know which exact persons are fakes/real in some cases, but you know there are too many highly likely visual fakes -- and a few definite characters who have several fake photos.

Clare, you haven't even started to see the bigger picture of fakes, frauds, charlatans, hoaxers, con artists and like. You haven't a clue about media, optics, frauds, and how those can be used to create fakes. You don't see the bigger picture. You've been hoaxed with details.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001905


IRONIC! HA HA! No. The "details" now you say I've been taken in with are the very details one needs to have to prove the "bigger picture of ..."

It is the detailed thinking which I am questioning in your approach: that if 1 out of 100 photos might have been a mistake, or if someone COULD create a lying screen shot of the Colaios (interesting idea) and fool Sept Clues, that's it.

Except they LINKED to the page at CNN. So, logically and reasonably, the page must have PROVEN their point at the time. You'd THINK?!!! And now it doesn't -- because, like the video official archives, they have been CHANGED.

If there's one thing no-one's maligned Sept Clues for, it's MAKING UP VIDEO.

The only claim is that they get it "secondhand" but this is debunker disinfo or misinfo at least: the second hand is THE OFFICIAL ARCHIVES.


I have a very good grasp of the big and small re. the fakery issues. You don't: a news article doesn't undo fakery even if the people were real. There's something going on and most are likely to be in fact blated numbers for WAR.


You don't grasp these fakery issues at all, Clare. You're so easily duped it's almost unbelievable.[/quote

You are so duped by your inability to recognize RELATIVE MERIT OF DATA -- fakery being present means NEW HYPOTHESIS about the events of the day.

I am being exact when I can and ALSO working through the hypothetical possibilities and necessities which flow from the relative BREADTH of each feature's merits.
.................................
But ... to be exact and perhaps a bit unkind back for all the nastiness you've spewed at me over these pages ... it's "myopia" except in Italian and so on, so it's listed as "miopia" in one dictionary which redirects to myopia.

And the plural of "minutia" is "minutiae". (Fem. singular/fem. plural)


You're being exact when you can? So you're being exact when pointing out the typos of others but you still can't write Wainio's name correctly!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001905


No, I started to type it exactly since you pointed it out.
Besides, I was making an emotional point with Menow.

But this remains your INSIGNIFICANT DETAIL mind talking:
Wainio or Wanio is insignificant to this CONTEXT. If we were dealing with the family in a letter, we'd try to get it right. (Even then, there are lots of letters with wrong names printed.)

But we are discussing a different and important point: we are questioning their validity. It's like insisting a firefighter pronounce your name correctly if they think there's a fire and have got to save you.

It's picayune and is EXACTLY what I meant about your mode of thinking.

I DO know the details AND the context in general, reworkable terms.

YOUR idea of details is the insignificant kind, by and large, such as what the writer on code does for her spare time, or if she's into conspiracy knowing -- for which you call her a loon, but you would be wrong even if she IS a loon. There are many people who know that any group action with negative consequences but which is hushed up is a conspiracy and this has gotten worse and more common ... so you are wrong to think a person a loon for being into how they've been lied to.

Sometimes they are right.

Also, YOUR idea of context is the insignificant kind: that Sept Clues gets their info from CNN so that means it's second hand ... for God's sake, man -- I'm serious, really really really! -- think of what you mean there!

If CNN is getting wrong or manipulated photos, then WHY AREN'T FAMILIES CORRECTING THEM?

Your argument falls apart and does nothing to smear Sept Clues.

There was fakery on 9/11.
Just get over it.
mclarek
User ID: 986233
Canada
06/13/2010 04:49 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I know she has responded a bit . . . but really she has taken a lot more abuse than she has handed out!


Tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims.


Let's just say in your wildest imagination that Clare is proven to be correct . . . is she then still a bane to the 9/11 victims and family?


But she isn't correct. She doesn't even understand what she is looking at. Several posters here have infinitely more experience with images than Clare, but she doesn't sit back and learn from them. Instead she baits them and tries to pass herself off as more knowledgeable. She didn't even know what GIMP is. ROFLMAO. Her sources are youtube videos (hint: most of what gets posted on youtube is sensationalist crap, serious videomakers avoid youtube like the clap, there are other ways to get your video out on the net). She also relies on the likes of Lear, Hoaxland, and many others that have zero credibility.

I am really tired of scrolling past her ignorant and arrogant diatribes. She is a troll.


BTW . . . Are you MakingItReal? I know she can be a pain but many on the Threads are . . . I will admit she is unique in her energy and tenacity . . .
 Quoting: George B


Well, I see a bit of a discussion. Note that KeepingIt Real didn't answer George's question.

As to "having infinitely more xperience with images" this is not the point because the images are clearly faked of Wainio: no-one's disputed this point except one who said you could "have the same photo shoot" (that was Astronut).

6 freeze-faces and NOT the same photo shoot? No.

And there are way too many. Sorry, KeepingItReal, get real.

Now do answer the question: is a D.A. or private reearcher being "awful" to "innocents" if there is even a slight suspicion of them? Should we not question the operation?

Do, however, understand the hypothesis first, please: real families could be used to spring for keeping the mass of others untouchable by framing real families with fake photos to confuse researchers.

Not only that, Astronut has not done the key test on the parallax ... and it would have to be done on every video just to make sure we'd tested the whole body of evidence -- like testing the whole crime scene, just in case something turns up. On the other hand, one fake at all, in the case of "live TV" shows fakery was being used.

(And Astronut didn't -- seem to? -- realize one can derive viewpoint from moving images, and that each layer will relate to another, and all should match -- but if you test each one separately for its movement in relation to the next, and all viewpoints do not match in sequence, you know it's a fake).

As to George, thanks for the kudos, George. Sorry you find me occasionally annoying. What other way would a REAL person, i.e., one who has real responses to things, be?

:)
Circuit Breaker

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06/13/2010 05:13 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Haha. Yeah, it's me. Keep forgetting to log in.

Zetasquawk is back online:
[link to www.zetasquawk.com]
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


I hope, for Nancy's sake, that she has one heck of a good excuse...I mean "white lie"...made up to explain why "Planet X" failed to show up before 2012.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2010 05:33 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Except they LINKED to the page at CNN. So, logically and reasonably, the page must have PROVEN their point at the time. You'd THINK?!!! And now it doesn't -- because, like the video official archives, they have been CHANGED.

 Quoting: mclarek 986233




No, they HAVEN'T changed.

Here they are, still online, appearing just as they do in the September Clueless material:

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.cnn.com]

It's the Legacy.com pages that have all the entries from friends and family and always did.