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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 908953
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06/19/2010 09:23 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Don't you love it when someone butts into a conversation, tries to change the subject, insults people, and when you ask them to leave you alone, they whine that you are bullying them. ROFLMAO. Ignore the pathetic self important troll.
mclarek

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06/19/2010 10:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Don't you love it when someone butts into a conversation, tries to change the subject, insults people, and when you ask them to leave you alone, they whine that you are bullying them. ROFLMAO. Ignore the pathetic self important troll.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908953



YOU ARE A BULLY, and you know it. I have no reason to "leave you alone" [the thread] since it's a public thread. Poor you. Who's whining with no reason?

You have nothing worthwhile to say ever on any topic in which I've participated. If you started to read, think or participate besides being INANE at me, then maybe you wouldn't feel so put upon.

Sheesh.
KeepingItReal

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06/19/2010 10:18 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Gee the ning is really hard to get around in! I wanted to ask Nancy why starchild Obama is dragging his feet in the gulf, but I burned my email last week. It won't let me post. Haha.

I guess she still has mod powers here? I wouldn't be surprised if she comes back here when the ning disintegrates under the heavy hand. Even to the people who obviously adore her she can be very rude.

Glad to hear Dr. Postman has been promoted!

Hey TLR, if you are out there, email Dr. Postman so you can join us again.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2010 10:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
from the ning, earth stoppage thread
I would assume the gravity will lessen when the world stops rotating. I would have to assume it would take days before we'd lose it entirely. Clouds would still spin as it circles the earth, but will evently evaporate or whatever. The turmoil, that's a good question! I can think of many because things would start rising and accidents will happen.
 Quoting:


umm....
WHAT???
KeepingItReal

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06/19/2010 10:25 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
from the ning, earth stoppage thread
I would assume the gravity will lessen when the world stops rotating. I would have to assume it would take days before we'd lose it entirely. Clouds would still spin as it circles the earth, but will evently evaporate or whatever. The turmoil, that's a good question! I can think of many because things would start rising and accidents will happen.

umm....
WHAT???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 763624

There is some funny shit over there. I can't help hoping some debunker is having some fun because it's scary to think there are people this dumb out there.

Of course Zetas continue to let Nancy down. I mean, they should be able to tell when a poster is laying a trap and decline the question, but they don't. She has fallen in my trap more than a few times, and I know that other debunkers have done the same too. The kite incident comes to mind. HAHAHA
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

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06/19/2010 11:47 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I also feel she is more a victim of her visions and of smoothing out the edges -- giving the "Zetas are beyond you" excuse to so many items. I don't feel she is a lying cheat, not willfully; this means she gets angry at abusive tones coming at her, and responds with some. Her mistake, though, is in not trusting ANY science to tell us about the world.

{>:-)
 Quoting: mclarek 1004307


So Clare where do you think she gets her insights. . . if you had to guess? Is someone messing with her head (CIA, etc.) . . . does she have a brain tumor . . . demonic influence . . . ET misinformation . . . indigestion?


By the way (typing the Tricey there made me remember): There was an experiment done with regular fish and plants in aquaria and terreria where the psi of the water/air were increased and under those conditions, all the animals and plants grew to massive proportions. So, if the GRAVITY WERE DIFFERENT on Earth, the animals/plants/insects could grow as we see they did in paleontological times.

 Quoting: mclarek 1004307

Sounds like the creationist's group in Glenrose Texas . . . do you have any other information on the experiment?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 12:47 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you change our tilt, the ecliptic's position moves with it.

 Quoting: mclarek


Only in so much as the position of everything from your point of view changes. That's like stating that turning you car alters the position of the building next to you. Sure, it does, from your point of view, but the building's address remains the same.

So you sound like an idiot with that in your .sig, Clare. The ecliptic is determined by the zone the planets orbit the Sun in, and not by the tilt of said planets. Neptune is in the ecliptic, after all, but its poles are WAY off... and Earth's tilting wouldn't change that zone except where we perceived it in the sky. And if that happened, the pole star would no longer have its unique orbiting characteristics, now, would it? You can't tilt the Earth from normal and have the pole star remain the pole star.

Sorry.....I just thought all that needed saying. I will now join the Clare Moratorium.
mclarek

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06/20/2010 01:44 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I also feel she is more a victim of her visions and of smoothing out the edges -- giving the "Zetas are beyond you" excuse to so many items. I don't feel she is a lying cheat, not willfully; this means she gets angry at abusive tones coming at her, and responds with some. Her mistake, though, is in not trusting ANY science to tell us about the world.

{>:-)


So Clare where do you think she gets her insights. . . if you had to guess? Is someone messing with her head (CIA, etc.) . . . does she have a brain tumor . . . demonic influence . . . ET misinformation . . . indigestion?
 Quoting: George B


Indigestion? :) Like Scrooge's idea as to why HE was having visions? Ha ha ha.

I don't know what to think about it. I sway back and forth on it. But ... to be as fair as possible to her, in case there is something to what she says (since that is the only thing we can do, as we don't really know the full truth here), I have worked out these thoughts:

There are other people who have predicted similar world maps and disaster for around this period. And there are many who have very interesting claims about alien contact, not all of them so extensive and prima facie implausible as hers; but it's theoretically possible she is in contact with ETs.

If it is actually possible and if she were in fact, I would guess she gets information and misinformation (mistakes) and disinformation (to render her claims even more implausible than simple ET contact would be).


By the way (typing the Tricey there made me remember): There was an experiment done with regular fish and plants in aquaria and terreria where the psi of the water/air were increased and under those conditions, all the animals and plants grew to massive proportions. So, if the GRAVITY WERE DIFFERENT on Earth, the animals/plants/insects could grow as we see they did in paleontological times.


Sounds like the creationist's group in Glenrose Texas . . . do you have any other information on the experiment?
 Quoting: George B


It might have been. I don't recall at this moment; but in fairness to that idea ...

I know that, all along, some of the most outspoken proponents of even scientific catastrophism in the West have often been those who were obsessed with the main mythic source of our culture: the Bible and its Noitic Flood.

Having said that, their reasons for looking into the material do not mean that the material itself is flawed, or that they cannot discover things.

And there are NON-Biblical Creationists who also know of these things; the most noteworthy being Cuvier & Velikovsky -- and, in his nightmares of truth about the Mammoth preservation, Darwin.

Cuvier was translated by what the English then called "Scriptural Geologists", those who believed science would only confirm the Bible in some broad sense. It prejudiced the already frightened Charles Lyell (traumatized by childhood catastrophe), who was Charles Darwin's intellectual mentor. They dismissed Cuvier's work on the bone beds and on the old stories of the world. To the detriment of the full evidence.

I find it fascinating that anyone could reproduce a different (effective) gravity and that the animals would naturally grow like that. In our current gravity, the biggest dinosaurs, for instance, would have to never bite their tongue or get a leaf cut on their foot, or the pressure to keep their blood going (above 42 feet, I think it is, there is no pressure a pump can get, unless there are steel pipes to keep the bottom from bursting). Something like that. I forget those details; the friend who was the engineer and told me of this is now dead.

So I find it fascinating we had metre-wide insects, 3-metre-long frogs, etc., too.

:)
mclarek

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06/20/2010 01:46 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If you change our tilt, the ecliptic's position moves with it.



Only in so much as the position of everything from your point of view changes. That's like stating that turning you car alters the position of the building next to you. Sure, it does, from your point of view, but the building's address remains the same.

So you sound like an idiot with that in your .sig, Clare. The ecliptic is determined by the zone the planets orbit the Sun in, and not by the tilt of said planets. Neptune is in the ecliptic, after all, but its poles are WAY off... and Earth's tilting wouldn't change that zone except where we perceived it in the sky. And if that happened, the pole star would no longer have its unique orbiting characteristics, now, would it? You can't tilt the Earth from normal and have the pole star remain the pole star.

Sorry.....I just thought all that needed saying. I will now join the Clare Moratorium.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718434


Yes, as I said, the ecliptic changes position if we have the wrong tiltand the Sun (if we were stopped) would rise only in the same constellation every day.

My signature makes more sense than the creator of the idea to malign me with a senseless signature. So it stays until I tire of it.
mclarek

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06/20/2010 01:50 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So Clare where do you think she gets her insights. . . if you had to guess? Is someone messing with her head (CIA, etc.)
 Quoting: George B


By the way, it's crossed my mind that she's a victim of human manipultion, in toto, or in parte.

Hope not, though. That's particularly cruel and probably for no good; whereas, at least if it's positive ETs, maybe it's for good in the end, whatever occurs.
mclarek

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06/20/2010 02:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The ecliptic is determined by the zone the planets orbit the Sun in, and not by the tilt of said planets. [...] You can't tilt the Earth from normal and have the pole star remain the pole star.

Sorry.....I just thought all that needed saying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718434


By the way, of course the whole stellarium would move with the ecliptic. The fact you thought it hadn't been said means you didn't read what I said.

However, Menow kept insisting that bringing up the ecliptic and tilt in one breath was silly; but he was being silly, since getting the ecliptic to progress it's one of the reasons the putative Zetas would have to tilt us.

But Nancy doesn't seem to realize that, from stoppage, the Sun would still always rise in the same constellation, but at the wrong time of day :) In other words, timing would be off. It would be in Aries, say, all year. Which means there would be no Sun in the wrong times.

In a stopped Earth, one could adjust the tilt into a wobble, for the correct constellations to rise along the current ecliptic, OR to tilt it in the same directional arc, for the correct durations of seasons of a stopped Sun-Earth relationship, but you could not get BOTH, because the Sun would be in the same constellation.

:)
mclarek

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06/20/2010 02:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But Nancy doesn't seem to realize that, from stoppage, the Sun would still always rise in the same constellation, but at the wrong time of day :) In other words, timing would be off. It would be in Aries, say, all year. Which means there would be no Sun in the wrong times.
 Quoting: mclarek


Sorry. That sentence was unclear.

What I meant to say was:


"But Nancy doesn't seem to realize that, from stoppage, but with tilt for the seasons corrected, the Sun would always rise in the same constellation. :) In other words, timing would be off. It would be in Aries, say, all year.

If, however, you adjusted for the constellation progression, the Sun would be below the horizon in the opposite time of day for part of the year. In other words, our seasonal clock would suddenly be pushed off kilter."

How?

The Sun would rise, say, in Aries but then stay there and the Zetas would make Pisces rise (with no Sun in it, and so on), so Spring would lead to winter (as if it were autumn). AND we'd notice the Sun hadn't advanced.

Nancy's point on this is all so bonkers and unscientific that it's silly.

But, it could happen NEAR A POLE SHIFT, to which we have not approached yet. If her statements are disinfo from the Zetas, then they may be saying it's happened already but it hasn't yet. That's the only way to salvage her position on this one, if one wanted to.
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 02:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Sorry, but are you actually stating the plain of the ecliptic will change if the tilt of the earth changes?
mclarek

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06/20/2010 02:28 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Sorry, but are you actually stating the plain of the ecliptic will change if the tilt of the earth changes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1006388


The plane through the constellations? No. The place it "cuts" the earth, yes.

It's part of winter-summer.
mclarek

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06/20/2010 02:49 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Somehow all my signatures are gone.

So: to make sure the a-- from Oz sees:

***************************************
To debunker AC 763624:

Your signature makes you sound stupid and bullying over nothing.


So, note that I'm right:

If you change our tilt, the ecliptic's position moves with it.

And ...

Hani Hanjour couldn't fly, said his flight instructor. Start there.
**************************************
mclarek

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06/20/2010 02:50 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh. They're back.

:)

I guess when you undo your signature it goes off all your posts.
mclarek

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06/20/2010 04:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I've taken them off again now.

Cool. Now I know about that feature!
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 05:13 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Sorry, but are you actually stating the plain of the ecliptic will change if the tilt of the earth changes?


The plane through the constellations? No. The place it "cuts" the earth, yes.

It's part of winter-summer.
 Quoting: mclarek

So what you are saying is the intersection of the ecliptic with the earth will be different if the axial tilt of the earth were to be changed for any reason?
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 06:17 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: KeepingItReal

Welcome back KIR ... how's it going ?
George B
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06/20/2010 10:17 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
{>:-)


So Clare where do you think she gets her insights. . . if you had to guess? Is someone messing with her head (CIA, etc.) . . . does she have a brain tumor . . . demonic influence . . . ET misinformation . . . indigestion?

Indigestion? :) Like Scrooge's idea as to why HE was having visions? Ha ha ha.

There are other people who have predicted similar world maps and disaster for around this period. And there are many who have very interesting claims about alien contact, not all of them so extensive and prima facie implausible as hers; but it's theoretically possible she is in contact with ETs.
:)
 Quoting: mclarek

Clare, I think the key here is most if not all the predicted maps predate her predictions . . .
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Catseye

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06/20/2010 10:40 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Finally got around to filling out a profile, but I can't subscribe yet, it's not that easy being outside the US.



What's with all the bragging about predictions? It says on zetatalk:

" . . . we point to our predictions, so very on target, made years before they manifested."

But the predictions listed after this brag are vague, like weather irregularities, sickness will slightly increase, new illnesses, tornadoes in areas that do not experience such tornadoes, weather confusing crops, panic will take over stock market, oceans will continue to become more erratic and finally, the visibility of Planet X exactly when and where they said.

They're all fuzzy, imprecise predictions! So what exactly is "on target"? And there are all kinds of Planet X sightings listed on the site. I could probably send one in about this country and get it listed.

If anything, the GLP guy's thread who said " in 9 days we will experience something so catastrophic . . . " (or something to that effect) - now this would be closer to being "on target" than just saying "things are going to get worse". Maybe things weren't so rosy a couple hundred years ago because communication was slow and nobody put it all together. Do things get worse or do they just get documented better? Guess it doesn't matter if it's a "vague" prediction.

And how is it that the "passage" (with pole shift and rotation stoppage) has not occurred even though Planet X, the supposed cause, is here? And why does she think governments are waiting for her dated predictions with bated breath? I thought the White Lie was supposed to mess them up, but she also says they have everything all figured out and just aren't telling us.


crazy
Forgive your enemies, it messes with their heads.
Catseye

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh wow, I almost didn't notice the title change!


chuckle
Forgive your enemies, it messes with their heads.
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 10:45 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Oh wow, I almost didn't notice the title change!


chuckle
 Quoting: Catseye


Yep, I think the battle against ZetaTalk can be considered well and truly won!

rockon
KeepingItReal

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06/20/2010 01:56 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Welcome back KIR ... how's it going ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1009284

Doing ok, thanks. Went to Mexico thinking I would retire there, but things happen and I'm back north. At least I missed the Olympics and got to spend some time on the pristine beaches of the gulf coast of the Yucatan. I didn't know at the time that the coast might not look the same next time.

I noticed the thread name change. It is kind of fitting, since clunk has completely hijacked the thread. That should tweak her self importance. She said she wouldn't respond to clunk, so we can hope she will abandon this thread. I wouldn't hold my breath though. She started some threads and they aren't going very well. Nobody is paying much attention, and the votes say it all. At least here she gets negative attention. She will apparently take whatever attention she can get.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 03:23 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I don't like the new thread title.

Why give her any satisfaction?
Anonymous Coward
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06/20/2010 03:29 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hi, Nancy.

What are your recommendations for the safe locations in Bulgaria...


Reply by Nancy Lieder on June 13, 2010 at 2:16pm

Where your small country is not directly addressed, the entire area AROUND it is. Bulgaria is smaller than the state of Wisconsin, side to side, more like a county here in Wisconsin. We don't detail every small state in the USA either.
 Quoting: Nancy Lieder and friends


"Bulgaria? How the hell would the Zetas know about Bulgaria? Here, check out what we said about Turkey. Close enough for government work."

[link to poleshift.ning.com]
Menow
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06/20/2010 07:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You're simply baiting. In fact, the ecliptic is not affected, in the least, but Earth's axial tilt. Apparently you think it is, or are trolling with that inanity. I have no further use for any discussion of it with you. You are either an idiot or a troll, or both.


No, the CONSTELLATIONS ALONG the arbitrary line of the former ecliptic would remain the same. But we would have a new ecliptic.
The ecliptic is defined as the points our tilt requires the Sun to rise in, over the year; and would be different if our tilt were different.

Those constellations would still be there ("heh", and the line through them ("heh"), which we currently call the ecliptic ... along with all other lines through all other points in the celesial "sphere" of our view. ("Heh.")

But we'd have a new ECLIPTIC>

It means, literally that the Sun progressively ECLIPSES that set of points (line) in the star-view. That is, that line through those stars (the constellations which WE define as important for that natural reason), over the year, get ECLIPSED at Sunrise.

Heh.

Indeed.
 Quoting: mclarek 1004307


Another absurd word-salad from Clare.

Earth's axial tilt and any allgeded change in that tilt has absolutely NO effect on the ecliptic.
Menow
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06/20/2010 07:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
back on topic- Menow- I didn't know you actually knew some of those people

I only read the posted newpaper articles etc- that little escapade ended up costing them tens of thousands of dollars- did any of them end up with criminal records over it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 763624


I don't know. I tried to follow up on that. I couldn't find out what happened in the end. I left a message on the only contact I could find with the people I knew and got no response. It wasn't an email addy. I tried to follow up with the newspaper which had the article about it, but didn't get anywhere with that either.

I just hit a dead-end on it.
Menow
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06/20/2010 07:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Menow, you cannot dissemble and wiggle out with the following, using sophistry (as you tend to do):


Since I never even GAVE an explanation or description of the ecliptic, it is rather telling that you are claiming my 'version' is stupid.

Heh. Wot a maroon!

Oh, you revealed what you DIDN'T think it was ...

that it has direct relationship to the tilt.

So you thought it was just a band of constellations the Sun followed -- without the tilt relating.

Here's one of your statements -- "heh":


No... I really have no idea how Clare was connecting the 'tilt' with the ecliptic. It made no sense at all.

How about ...

If we have a different tilt, we have a different ecliptic.
 Quoting: mclarek 1004307


No, we don't. It would be in a different altitude, etc, in our sky, of course, but duh... I never said otherwise.

Where you might have to look to FIND the ecliptic in our sky under a different axial tilt does not mean it's a different ecliptic. It's exactly the same celestial plane as it would have been before.

The ecliptic is NOT defined by the angle at which we FIND it when looking from Earth's surface.
Menow
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06/20/2010 08:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
a) Yes, the constellations are above the horizon MERELY BECAUSE OF TILT progressing over the year in relation to the Sun.
 Quoting: mclarek 1004307



But you said THIS, Clare:

The reason the constelations appear above or below the ecliptic is only due to the tilt.
Quoting: mclarek 1004307

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