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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Circuit Breaker

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08/03/2009 08:53 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What WON'T you do to convince yourself Nancy is right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 658394


You got that right. When evidence was presented showing that Earth isn't "halted in orbit," Max came up with "screened memories" in an effort to make Nancy look right.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
The Commentator

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08/04/2009 01:31 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What WON'T you do to convince yourself Nancy is right?


You got that right. When evidence was presented showing that Earth isn't "halted in orbit," Max came up with "screened memories" in an effort to make Nancy look right.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker



You know, and I know the only reason Melfy is here is for the attention. Shun the asshole and he is deprived for his reason to be here, he can can rot with the rest of the vile mouthed, brain dead bunkers with his liar LIEDer.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2009 01:37 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE!?!?!?!?!?!?!
shill
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2009 02:46 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Posted for posterity....

PR
Would you consider airing your view of Nancy's story? given that you knew her from a different viewpoint, I am interested in how you see the message and it's changes over the years.

I will understand if you decline 'tho.
Quoting: Prof_Rabbit


In response to your request;

From 1995 to May 15, 2003, Nancy Leider predicted that on or about the date of May 15, 2003 the planet known as Niburu would re-enter our solar system and cause havoc to earth. She further stated that the information she was providing was given to her telepathically by an alien species known as the Zeta and the arrival of Niburu would validate the Zeta existance.With the Y2K predictions also occurring during that time, many were of a disposition to believe her or at least retain an element of doubt until May 15, 2003.

My relationship with Nancy Leider has been solely based on the Internet, never having met her. The story she has woven appears to be based to a great degree on the works of Zechariah Sitchen, Velikovsky and others.

To recap that time period;
Around the year 2000 sky coordinates were provided for the location of Niburu from Nancy Lieder/Zeta. In September 2002, Steve Havas rented time on a telescope and began imaging the coordinates. In the first images, something was found on the images at the exact coordinates. This got my and others interest. From September 2002 to March 2003 telescope imaging was used tracking the coordinates given by Nancy Leider and an ongoing debate began over those images.

My direct involvement on this issue of Nancy Leider and Niburu involved review of those images, an attempted debate on the Sci.Astro forum, and the presentation to Sci.Astro of a statement of claim stating that the arrival of Niburu on May 15,2003 was evidence for the existence of the zeta.
[link to groups.google.com]
[link to groups.google.com]

During the time I was working on the telescope images on the basis of my experience with photo imaging, not astronomy. From September 2002 to February 2003, anomalies appeared on the imaging which could be plotted on a star map.

After February there was no conclusive evidence from the imaging, which should be expected if a planet was moving closer into our solar system. In March 2003 telescope imaging was discontinued. In March / April 2003, Nancy Leider stated that the planet could be seen with binoculars or small telescopes. Many images from around the world were posted to show its arrival. Some of these were hoaxes and some were unknowns. By April 2003, the planet was alleged to be near the sun, which brought out even more photos consisting of lens flare from cameras or sunlight on cloud formations.

Although 2002 and early 2003 saw an uptick in solar and geological activity, from March to May 2003, no conclusive evidence of an incoming planet was apparent.

May 15 2003 came and went and on May 21 2003 I posted to Sci.Astro forum stating that the statement of claim was rejected due to the non arrival of Niburu.
[link to groups.google.com]
[link to groups.google.com]

With the no show of Niburu in May 2003, most rejected her claim and moved on to other things. Myself included. Whereas before May 15, 2003 the possibility existed, after May 15, 2003 no credibility in this claim remains.

To explain the failed prediction, Nancy Leider stated the whole episode was a "white lie" to confuse the powers that be. With the introduction of the "white lie" to retrieve her predictive credibility some continued to believe. Nancy Leider has continued stating the planet passage is imminent and attempts to convince others of her validity.

In conclusion;

I have watched these past six years since 2003 and continue to observe the ongoing debate surrounding Niburu. Looking back and attempting to make sense of what this lady is up to defies ready explanation. Because of the lack of evidence for her initial statements, and the failure of her prediction, one can only presume that the individual is suffering from some disorder or trying to retain notoriety on the Internet.

In my opinion, the theories of Sitchen, Hapgood and Velikovsky deserve further study; the theories of Nancy Leider do not.

My regrets in this whole episode are first that I played a small part in a deception that has affected many. And secondly, some of my comments during the debate in 2002/2003 were unkind especially when dealing with IM Openminded. Up until that time I considered myself rational and correct in things that I had undertaken but found it was possible to become emotional and wrong, providing me with both a humbling and, in retrospect, a necessary experience for me. I now have relearned to approach issues from a more balanced point of view.

Moving on from this experience, I have been able to regain a level of balance and evolve my believe structure on rational facts rather than emotional arguments.

I now approach all new claims made on the Internet or elsewhere with healthy scepticism based on evidence and facts, and I encourage others to do the same.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


This is worth bookmarking to post on her chats. If posted, please refrain from any further posting or responding. Her followers need to know her history.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 719433

DONE.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17230
Germany
08/04/2009 02:48 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

:_absurd:
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Since Nancy has time now ZetaMelfey as well can spent more time again to post silly gifs...
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 737106
New Zealand
08/04/2009 03:00 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE!?!?!?!?!?!?!
shill
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 741478


Appears that you have taken the wrong exit ramp Sparky!!
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 737106
New Zealand
08/04/2009 03:06 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

_absurd

Since Nancy has time now ZetaMelfey as well can spent more time again to post silly gifs...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17230


After going through Ms LIEDer's latest "chat" thread offerings it is quite obvious to say that her zetacult has finally died a pathetic death.

:excited:
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17230
Germany
08/04/2009 08:35 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

:_absurd:

Since Nancy has time now ZetaMelfey as well can spent more time again to post silly gifs...


After going through Ms LIEDer's latest "chat" thread offerings it is quite obvious to say that her zetacult has finally died a pathetic death.

:excited:
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger

It is indeed extraordinary how much the zetacrap has sunk down into un-attention just by the simple method of avoiding their threads...

Debunkers boycott at its best!

Debunkers to mods!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

User ID: 737106
New Zealand
08/04/2009 09:40 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It is indeed extraordinary how much the zetacrap has sunk down into un-attention just by the simple method of avoiding their threads...

Debunkers boycott at its best!

Debunkers to mods!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17230


:boycott1: .......and yes it was sooooo easy to achieve!!
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 659599
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08/04/2009 09:45 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

_absurd


Max, did you actually make the statement about someone being a direct decendent of Moses? You're kidding, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 705842

I guess you didn't watch the posted YouTube clips - did you?
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Menow
User ID: 405501
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08/04/2009 09:50 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Posted for posterity....

PR
Would you consider airing your view of Nancy's story? given that you knew her from a different viewpoint, I am interested in how you see the message and it's changes over the years.

I will understand if you decline 'tho.
Quoting: Prof_Rabbit


In response to your request;
(snip)


Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
 Quoting: Prof_Rabbit


WOAH! You located Dell??? How? Excuse me if I have missed something.
Menow
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08/04/2009 09:54 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What is the date of that JW Dell statement? There needs to be one on there.
Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
08/04/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Posted for posterity....


To recap that time period;
Around the year 2000 sky coordinates were provided for the location of Niburu from Nancy Lieder/Zeta. In September 2002, Steve Havas rented time on a telescope and began imaging the coordinates. In the first images, something was found on the images at the exact coordinates. This got my and others interest. From September 2002 to March 2003 telescope imaging was used tracking the coordinates given by Nancy Leider and an ongoing debate began over those images.
(snip)

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
 Quoting: Prof_Rabbit



Dell is STILL trying to save face. One of Nancy's ploys was to say that you have to "look around" the given coordinates for some vague reason. The bits of fluff and imaging artifacts she called her planet were NOT found at her exact coords... AND, the same type of bits she picked out could be found about anywhere you looked in the images. Hot Pixels, X-ray hits and simple image noise were all chosen by Nancy and "Zetas" as her planet.

Heh.
J.William Dell

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08/04/2009 11:08 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What is the date of that JW Dell statement? There needs to be one on there.
 Quoting: Menow 405501


Date witten was August 2nd 2009 and original post exists at
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Posted for posterity....
Dell is STILL trying to save face.....
 Quoting: Menow 405501


At this point, saving face is meaningless.The debate ended long ago.


[/quote:Menow 405501]
WOAH! You located Dell??? How? Excuse me if I have missed something.


Were you looking for me??? ;o)

The request for comment was made in another thread and the response to Prof. Rabbit was provided publicly rather than privately in hopes that it may be a positive benefit to some.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2009 01:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Thanks, Dell.

If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not: lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there? Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up? I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.

I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2009 01:24 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2009 02:16 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Everyone is living in the past. A plausible reason was given why the crustal shift did not happen then in 2003

The US if they had won the Irag War which they didn't. I would have realized it was a failed prediction and was the reason given for the 2003 no show and is wrong. But guess what..The US did not win anything through it all and continues to operate on only three wheels instead of four

I know the Debunkeres are looking for anything that would show that Planet X does not exist and have found some consolidation in William's post.I wish the Debunkers well in their continuing quest to stop Zetatalk.

If the Earth was normal as for say the last 200 years, today then I am not stupid and can easily point out that nothing that Nancy has said in ZetaTalk is true at all. But I can't do that. the Debunkers won't even admit a simple thing that the Sun is no longer yellow anymore

Even after scores of GLP'ers can see that this statement is false the Debunkers continue to portray a Yellow Sun is not a White Sun

With that in mind and other easy to see signs that the Debunkers care to say is false .I know it kills their credibility fast and drives people every week over to Nancy's chat thread to look for answers

Nancy is not worried, like the Debunkers are

Good luck William and the rest of the Debunker camp

I posted this so you know William's post was read
Free Store

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08/04/2009 02:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Timed Out...
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 612979
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08/04/2009 02:35 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Everyone is living in the past. A plausible reason was given why the crustal shift did not happen then in 2003
 Quoting: Free Store

No plausible reason was ever given. It was simply an excuse to cover up a failed prediction and I can prove it with one a statement taken directly from ZetaTalk:

""As explained on Gentile last evening, but repeated here as many will not be able to hear this streaming audio, we have given the dates out because the US and Indonesian governments can no longer succeed with their plans. We had held the date close, to put these governments in the same position the common man they planned to murder are in, so that rotation stoppage would happen suddenly and prevent a smooth blockading of the city dwellers. As Nancy has been able to be interviewed in the US, the message of these plans replayed around the world, cooperation by the military or locale police in such blockades are unlikely to happen. Given such orders, they would object, refuse, allow escape, as they know the true agenda. Thus, the number of people injured by withholding the date outnumbered the number that would be murdered, the balance scale tipped."
ZetaTalk: Dates, Why Now?

Read that first sentence again. It clearly states the "Zetas" gave out the dates because the U.S. and Indonesian governments would not succeed with their plans...which means they would be unable to enact Martial Law and enslave any survivors. All because their warnings had gotten out thanks to Nancy. And then the statement clearly says that the military and local police would not cooperate. They would allow people to flee. So, we’re left with the following question - why would there need to be a "white lie?" The "Zetas" just said the "balance scale tipped" and withholding the date would harm more than those it would help. It's obvious to everyone (except you, User and Max) that the "white lie" is nothing but an excuse.


The US if they had won the Irag War which they didn't.
 Quoting: Free Store

You need to come out of your bunker more often. Is Saddam still in control? No. In fact, he's dead. A new government has been put in place. There are still problems to be worked out, but overall the objectives of the U.S. have been met. None of this should have happened in the first place according to the "Zetas"...in fact, they said the invasion wouldn't even be allowed and that they would stop it. What happened? Did they get lost?

I would have realized it was a failed prediction and was the reason given for the 2003 no show and is wrong.
 Quoting: Free Store

Yet, here we are...six years later and you're still waiting for "Planet X" to show up. And you won't realize these predictions failed and Nancy is wrong even when 2012 comes and goes without even so much as a hint of your "rogue planet."

I know the Debunkeres are looking for anything that would show that Planet X does not exist...
 Quoting: Free Store

WRONG! Caught lying again. We're looking for something that shows "Planet X" does exist. This is something you have failed to do every year since 2003.

...and have found some consolidation in William's post.I wish the Debunkers well in their continuing quest to stop Zetatalk.
 Quoting: Free Store

First of all, "debunkers" aren't out to stop ZetaTalk. We simply ask that you provide evidence to show that any of it is real. This is something that Nancy, User, ZetaMax and you have failed to do time and time again. Second, I don't take consolation in Dell's statement. Why should I? However, it doesn't help you or Nancy when a member of her own imaging team comes forward and states point blank that Nancy is wrong. We wish you well in your attempts to ignore Nancy's mounting failures. And we wish you well in your weak attempts to discredit "debunkers." Too bad for you that you haven't even come close to doing so.

If the Earth was normal as for say the last 200 years, today then I am not stupid and can easily point out that nothing that Nancy has said in ZetaTalk is true at all. But I can't do that. the Debunkers won't even admit a simple thing that the Sun is no longer yellow anymore
 Quoting: Free Store

What are you using as a baseline or comparison to say that Earth hasn't been "normal for 200 years?" Exactly what is "normal?" Can you explain? I doubt it...we can't even get you to show us that the sun isn't yellow....meanwhile, I and others provided several photos that show it is. Here are some examples:

[link to image07.webshots.com]
[link to upload.wikimedia.org] (also note no sign of "Planet X" hoovering anywhere nearby)
[link to thebluetwin.files.wordpress.com]

As you can see, the sun is clearly yellow in those photos. The only person having a problem admitting anything is you - you couldn't even admit that you were wrong when "Planet X" failed to show up in September 2007 as you said it would.

Even after scores of GLP'ers can see that this statement is false the Debunkers continue to portray a Yellow Sun is not a White Sun
 Quoting: Free Store

Sure, they could see that the sun was white...if it were true. See the photos above. And here are some from the 70s:

[link to static.panoramio.com] (taken in 1975)
[link to img2.allposters.com] (taken in 1976)
[link to www.michaelwaynejones.com] (taken in 1977)
[link to static.panoramio.com] (taken in 1978)

As you can see, sunsets today look no different than sunsets 30 years ago. Now, care to present some evidence showing the sun is different? I thought not.

With that in mind and other easy to see signs that the Debunkers care to say is false .
 Quoting: Free Store

Such as? You keep saying the moon isn't in the right place...and yet you can't tell us where it should be. Nor have you bothered to document any of your claims and prove that the moon's position is incorrect. Meanwhile, loads of evidence has been presented to show the moon is exactly where it should be...such as the eclipse on July 22.

I know it kills their credibility fast and drives people every week over to Nancy's chat thread to look for answers
 Quoting: Free Store

It does? Please explain and be specific. As demonstrated above, it is you that lacks any credibility to begin with.

Nancy is not worried, like the Debunkers are
 Quoting: Free Store

Of course she isn't. She knows you'll buy whatever lie she has to come up with to explain why "Planet X" didn't show up when 2012 rolls around. And why are "debunkers" worried? Please explain...be specific and provide evidence to back up that statement.

Good luck William and the rest of the Debunker camp
 Quoting: Free Store

Thanks...although it's you that needs the luck. And perhaps some professional help.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 08/04/2009 07:09 PM
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
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08/04/2009 02:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well stated.

BTW, the sun obviously has NOT changed in color over the years. If it had, then film emulsions would have had to change to make up for the difference in the color temperature of outdoor lighting. Any photographer can tell that this hasn't changed.
J.William Dell

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08/04/2009 04:31 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!


Last Edited by J.William on 08/04/2009 04:39 PM
J.William Dell

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08/04/2009 04:34 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.



I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.


I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
***ZetaMax***

User ID: 742349
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08/04/2009 06:52 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.



I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.


I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
 Quoting: J.William Dell


Soon
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 658394
United States
08/04/2009 07:01 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.



I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.


I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


Soon
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***



So 'soon' you, too, will admit that you were wrong, Zetamax? Very well, I'll look forward to seeing your defintion of 'soon.' Hopefully it isn't the same as Nancy's defintion of 'soon', which is 'never.'
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 612979
United States
08/04/2009 07:11 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Soon
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Soon what? Soon you'll be admitting you were wrong as well and then buy Hap that steak dinner?
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
88145
User ID: 705842
United States
08/04/2009 07:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.



I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.


I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


Soon
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Max, if you have half he character of Dell, I'll be surprised. But I've been surprised before, so hope reigns eternal. Both you and User have committed to admitting your errors if px doesn't show up by the end of 2011. I hope you live up to your promise and that it also comes with an apology for all the names you've called us debunkers of Nancy's foolishness.
Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
08/04/2009 07:21 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What is the date of that JW Dell statement? There needs to be one on there.


Date witten was August 2nd 2009 and original post exists at
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]


Posted for posterity....
Dell is STILL trying to save face.....


At this point, saving face is meaningless.The debate ended long ago.


[/quote:Menow 405501]
WOAH! You located Dell??? How? Excuse me if I have missed something.


Were you looking for me??? ;o)

The request for comment was made in another thread and the response to Prof. Rabbit was provided publicly rather than privately in hopes that it may be a positive benefit to some.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
 Quoting: J.William Dell


I have wondered what had become of you and what your current opinion would be. I'm sure it will be of positive benefit for those who will accept what it means. Thanks for giving it.

The "saving face" point I raised was about your statement that something was found right at Nancy's coords. Such was NOT the case and played an important role in her ability to perpetuate her hoax. "objects" were found NEAR to her coordinates. However, they were, for the most part NOT OBJECTS AT ALL. There was one known asteroid, but the specks of fluff she pointed out were mainly things like hot pixels, etc, preserved in the final stack by summing the images instead of using a method which would eliminate such flaws in the individual images. Any chance you will agree with this at this time?
Menow
User ID: 405501
United States
08/04/2009 07:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Everyone is living in the past. A plausible reason was given why the crustal shift did not happen then in 2003
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 143685


Except that it isn't plausible at all. It requires one to believe that the world's astronomers, NASA, the world's governments, etc, etc, etc, could not determine the location and trajectory of a large planet right in the inner Solar System and were reading Zetatalk for that information. HAR! How can you believe such a thing?

Second... what is your explanation for what Dell admitted in the past, and is now reconfirming, that Nancy's planet WAS NOT found at her sky coordinates, as she continues to claim as her anchor prediction?

(snip)
thread sucks
User ID: 737652
United States
08/04/2009 07:30 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
bsflag bsflag bsflag








s226 s226 :5:






This post is poop rofl





Good bye antibs
88145
User ID: 705842
United States
08/04/2009 07:32 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
One never sums images when stacking astronomical data. That only enhances noise and makes hot pixels brighter. The proper procedure is a min/max excluded algorithm, or a sigma-clipped average algorithm that deletes data that is not correlated from frame to frame.

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