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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 04:33 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Hey, ZM -- was my answer earlier complete enough for you?
***ZetaMaX***

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11/14/2010 08:18 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Now that the specified time has passed I'm sure Max will whine
about waiting until it's the very end of the day in the last
time zone of the planet. And then the setup for January's fail
begins.
 Quoting: DrPostman


The time hasn't passed - we got just under 90 minutes to go.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMaX***

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11/14/2010 08:44 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So even the time got changed from 6:50EST to 9:50EST. wrotfl2

Still won't help. All the equivocating in the world won't.
 Quoting: DrPostman

lol The time was 6:50PST PACIFIC STANDARD TIME. It has always been Pacific time you DOOFUS!!!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
***ZetaMaX***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So even the time got changed from 6:50EST to 9:50EST. wrotfl2

Still won't help. All the equivocating in the world won't.
 Quoting: DrPostman

EXACTLY ONE HOUR TO GO!!!!!!!

sfan
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
andrew

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11/14/2010 09:10 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
science is quite a leap of faith too - you didnt verify all those experiments made for all those hundreds of years to know is it true for yourself, didnt you? and not many people did [:)]


No, science is not a leap of faith. Do you know why? Because tests have been done, data has been collected and theories were made based upon that data. Then, others observed, tested and verified the results. If the results were the same, a conclusion was formed based upon all that data. I don't need to repeat the experiments made for hundreds of years because they were already done...by others and it was documented.

Welcome to fail Andrew.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


with science you give credit to those men, who you suppose to be in a position to know better, and you trust them, you believe what they say.

"science' is what these men agree among themselves is truth and then tell us.

science, along with any philosophical system and any religion, is a way to grasp Universe. surely, some of these worldviews are false (based on false premises), but they are basically the same thing - a basic belief about the nature of reality.

science is very narrow-sighted and 'grounded'. it has always reasoned on the basis of FALSE premise - that what we know is all that exists (=we know everything). it is totally UNSCIENTIFIC approach. In that Science is no different from any religion. plain and simple, science is a belief system, the same as any other, only in this case scientific belief system.
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
science is quite a leap of faith too - you didnt verify all those experiments made for all those hundreds of years to know is it true for yourself, didnt you? and not many people did [:)]

No, science is not a leap of faith. Do you know why? Because tests have been done, data has been collected and theories were made based upon that data. Then, others observed, tested and verified the results. If the results were the same, a conclusion was formed based upon all that data. I don't need to repeat the experiments made for hundreds of years because they were already done...by others and it was documented.

Welcome to fail Andrew.

Andrew just doesn't see how this proves that Zetatalk is his
religion. He's no different than the creationists who claim
that the Earth is only 6,000 years old:

scicreat
 Quoting: DrPostman


wrong.
scientific method is:

phenomena -> theory -> facts

humans observe world around them, make assumptions what it might be and how and why, and then verify through experience or research.
andrew

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11/14/2010 09:27 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
scicreat

The creationists make that exact same argument too. "I believe in God and you believe in science! They're both belief and belief is faith, so you can't say that one is better than the other."

Of course faith isn't simply belief, it's strong belief even in the absence of evidence. That's a majorly important difference.
 Quoting: Marquis


and right you are - science and religion (and philosophic systems) differ in method, otherwise it is basically the same - worldview system.

science is experimental method
religion is "blind faith", revelation/dogma
philosophy is speculative (theorizing, pondering)

in this light i would define ZetaTalk as a "philosophical system", like Buddism, or Confucianism, or Taoism.

it is a set of beliefs (basic assumptions) about the nature of reality, world (Universe), about what it is and how and why; what is the place of human in all of this and how it determines what our daily life would be.

- that definition would CERTAINLY apply to Buddism, Taosism or Confucianism.

the philosophical system (worldview) derives pronciples by which adherents guide their lives. it defines basic assumptions and "declared values".

and, in truth, in that everyone is a creator of his own worldview, a system of assumptions about the world,
everyone is creating his own personal philosophical system.
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I've noticed that not one debunker has responded to my concerns about living in the last days of a failed robber-baron society. So tell me seven-four-fours, do you think this status quo can continue indefinitely, or even much longer???


IMHO, there is no such thing as a status quo. Nothing lasts indefinitely. So the question is vaguely meaningless.

Do I think the age of American hegemony is over? Likely, yes. Historically, 'empires' rise and fall like the tide. My best guess is that there will be a brief time, in which the reins return to Europe, followed quite quickly by the economic powerhouses of China and India. A century after that? Who knows?

However, America won't quite be a second-world country. We still largely have the world's food, and I think bio-tech will be the next big thing to happen. Agriculture will still be our big export, but change in ways we can barely imagine. I think kelp, and perhaps yeast, will be bio-engineered to do all sorts of amazing things, and we'll lead that race for quite awhile.

Natural disasters will occur -- they always occur. Economies will continue their cyclical cycles, and people will try to do their best to predict chaotic systems. Human affairs will continue to be the definition of a tempest in a teapot. But the species will muddle along.

Will there be a huge, 90 percent population-wiping event? I tend to doubt it, although such things are possible. But it seems in our nature to *always* think it is the end-times, *always* think our little dramas are unlike anything that has happened before, and that *this* set of problems, surely, is the insurmountable set.

And then we surmount them, or learn to live with them, and continue to muddle along.

I expect that cycle will continue. I hope that answers your question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444


yeah, typical reaction - just "saddle" some cycle and you are a master of life! you know what to expect, everything predictable, repeatable, expectable. the wiser. everything that is left - lay plans into the future according to this "scientific" insider knowledge.

too bad, because it is all based on extrapolation - assumption that general conditions will continue into the future.

(that is status quo, btw)

cycles are a thing of human psychology - an expectation of better times. it will get better, economic upswing is around the corner, the deeper we fall the steeper rise will follow... SOON!

it is also based on a "compensation theory" - one awaits just "compensation" for every misfortune from some higher "providence" - "It cant happen to me! I was a good guy!". so, "compensation" awaits out there, around the corner
***ZetaMaX***

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11/14/2010 10:01 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
... technical difficulties

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 11/14/2010 10:24 AM
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 10:11 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
yeah, typical reaction - just "saddle" some cycle and you are a master of life! you know what to expect, everything predictable, repeatable, expectable. the wiser. everything that is left - lay plans into the future according to this "scientific" insider knowledge.

too bad, because it is all based on extrapolation - assumption that general conditions will continue into the future.

(that is status quo, btw)

cycles are a thing of human psychology - an expectation of better times. it will get better, economic upswing is around the corner, the deeper we fall the steeper rise will follow... SOON!

it is also based on a "compensation theory" - one awaits just "compensation" for every misfortune from some higher "providence" - "It cant happen to me! I was a good guy!". so, "compensation" awaits out there, around the corner
 Quoting: andrew


Blathering again.

Andrew, admit it. You're one of Nancy's tru believers who has latched onto the tail end of her religion, yes it's a religion.

It has a set dogma and casts out those who don't believe.
andrew

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11/14/2010 10:17 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Moon is Tilting!

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]
andrew

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11/14/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
****41 EARTHQUAKES + 4.0 MAG. ALREADY TODAY.....WTF!!!****

Thread: ****41 EARTHQUAKES + 4.0 MAG. ALREADY TODAY.....WTF!!!****

[link to www.iris.edu]

[link to poleshift.ning.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 11:18 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: andrew


So?

Have you ever bothered to dig through the earthquake lists to see if this has happened before in one day? I bet not because you have no scientific curiosity and believe whatever fits within your rather limited understanding of any scientific subject.

Given time (I have a project to finish for one of my clients), I could find multiple days in the earthquake database where there were over 40 4+ magnitude earthquakes in one day. You, on the other hand, are too damn lazy to do any research on your own - just like the rest of you comrades on poleshift.ning.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 11:21 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: andrew


Quick statistic for you Andrew:

Roughly 14,000 4+ magnitude earthquakes each year - that works out to be 38 per day!
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 12:10 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So even the time got changed from 6:50EST to 9:50EST. :wrotfl2:

Still won't help. All the equivocating in the world won't.

EXACTLY ONE HOUR TO GO!!!!!!!

sfan
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


That's funny...what happened to that apology post you had up earlier this morning Max? It was up around 10:00 am (EST) but is now gone.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
yeah, typical reaction - just "saddle" some cycle and you are a master of life! you know what to expect, everything predictable, repeatable, expectable. the wiser. everything that is left - lay plans into the future according to this "scientific" insider knowledge.
 Quoting: andrew


What are you talking about? No one has the capability to be life's master -- whatever that really means. And not *everything* is repeatable or expectable (is that a word?), but many things are.

As I have said before, here: there are many, many things we do not know. But that doesn't mean we don't know *anything.*

too bad, because it is all based on extrapolation - assumption that general conditions will continue into the future.
 Quoting: andrew


Oh? What conditions are those? My assumption is that gravity will continue to perform as predicted, tomorrow. I expect that condition will continue.

(that is status quo, btw)
 Quoting: andrew


So, in approximately 5 billion years, when the Sun reaches the end of its lifespan, what is the status quo, THEN? Does it differ from the status quo NOW? Then how is it a status quo?

cycles are a thing of human psychology - an expectation of better times. it will get better, economic upswing is around the corner, the deeper we fall the steeper rise will follow... SOON!
 Quoting: andrew


Better or worse is a value judgment that I do not make. But things do change. We know, from mathematics if not several other disciplines, that there are patterns that repeat -- even purely natural, non-mammade patterns. Our ability to come as far as we have relies on that innate pattern-seeking ability, even though, many times, we perceive it wrong. But science, properly applied, helps us separate the illusionary patterns with those the do, in fact, exist.

Pendulums swing. It's what they do. So it is with cycles of nature.

it is also based on a "compensation theory" - one awaits just "compensation" for every misfortune from some higher "providence" - "It cant happen to me! I was a good guy!". so, "compensation" awaits out there, around the corner
 Quoting: andrew


How are you getting anything like this out of my post? I don't understand how this applies to my post in the least.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So even the time got changed from 6:50EST to 9:50EST. :wrotfl2:

Still won't help. All the equivocating in the world won't.

EXACTLY ONE HOUR TO GO!!!!!!!

sfan


That's funny...what happened to that apology post you had up earlier this morning Max? It was up around 10:00 am (EST) but is now gone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1164021


Pity. I would have liked to see it.
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
phenomena -> theory -> facts
humans observe world around them, make assumptions what it might be and how and why, and then verify through experience or research.
Quoting: andrew

Not really:
"Systematic apporach of observation, hypothesis formation,
hypothesis testing and hypothesis evaluation that forms the
basis for modern science"
[link to www2.estrellamountain.edu]

So when has Zetatalk EVER been tested, let alone falsified?
 Quoting: DrPostman



"Systematic apporach of observation, = phenomena


hypothesis formation, = theory


hypothesis testing and hypothesis evaluation = facts


that forms the
basis for modern science"
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
hypothesis testing and hypothesis evaluation = facts


 Quoting: andrew


Which is blatantly absent from zetatalk.
andrew

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notion of Falsifiability is pure crap.

we cant prove or disprove something WE DONT KNOW!

we have to LEARN first.

falsifiablity equals to saying that only what we know exists in reality and everything else does not.

"ancient metaphysical and unfalsifiable idea of the existence of atoms has led to corresponding falsifiable modern theories."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by andrew on 11/14/2010 01:33 PM
andrew

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"
Contemporary philosophers
Many contemporary philosophers of science and analytic philosophers are strongly critical of Popper's philosophy of science[citation needed] . Popper's mistrust of inductive reasoning has led to claims that he misrepresents scientific practice. Among the professional philosophers of science, the Popperian view has never been seriously preferred to probabilistic induction, which is the mainstream account of scientific reasoning.[3] Adherents of Popper speak with disrespect of "professional philosophy", for example

W. W. Bartley:

Sir Karl Popper is not really a participant in the contemporary professional philosophical dialogue; quite the contrary, he has ruined that dialogue. If he is on the right track, then the majority of professional philosophers the world over have wasted or are wasting their intellectual careers. The gulf between Popper's way of doing philosophy and that of the bulk of contemporary professional philosophers is as great as that between astronomy and astrology.[4]

Rafe Champion:

Popper's ideas have failed to convince the majority of professional philosophers because his theory of conjectural knowledge does not even pretend to provide positively justified foundations of belief. Nobody else does better, but they keep trying, like chemists still in search of the Philosopher's Stone or physicists trying to build perpetual motion machines.[5]

and David Miller:

What distinguishes science from all other human endeavours is that the accounts of the world that our best, mature sciences deliver are strongly supported by evidence and this evidence gives us the strongest reason to believe them.’ That anyway is what is said at the beginning of the advertisement for a recent conference on induction at a celebrated seat of learning in the UK. It shows how much critical rationalists still have to do to make known the message of Logik der Forschung concerning what empirical evidence is able to do and what it does.[6]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
andrew

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"Kuhn argued that scientists work within a conceptual paradigm that strongly influences the way in which they see data. Scientists will go to great length to defend their paradigm against falsification, by the addition of ad hoc hypotheses to existing theories."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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11/14/2010 01:54 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
... technical difficulties
 Quoting: ***ZetaMaX***


rofl ........but there will be nothing "technical" with what is about to follow from the Melfster!!

tlr101
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2010 01:56 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
****41 EARTHQUAKES + 4.0 MAG. ALREADY TODAY.....WTF!!!****

Thread: ****41 EARTHQUAKES + 4.0 MAG. ALREADY TODAY.....WTF!!!****

[link to www.iris.edu]


 Quoting: andrew



Told you they'd go to earthquakes.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So where the hell is BridgetMax?

MEGA FAIL.
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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11/14/2010 02:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
That's funny...what happened to that apology post you had up earlier this morning Max? It was up around 10:00 am (EST) but is now gone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1164021


Well Melfy had better get his act together and "man up" with a sincere and appropriately worded APOLOGY to ALL our thread contributors.

You know Melfy in regards to that NOW FAILED TIPPING POINT CRAP prediction.

Loneranger

Last Edited by The Lone Ranger on 11/14/2010 02:04 PM
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger (OP)

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11/14/2010 02:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
 Quoting: andrew


Andrew you freaken MORON!!

There is NOTHING "WTF" about that at all.

lol4me Stick to wanking yourself you zidiot......because you SUCK at DOOM fear mongering!!

Mexcited
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
hypothesis testing and hypothesis evaluation = facts



 Quoting: andrew


Utterly false.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
So even the time got changed from 6:50EST to 9:50EST. :wrotfl2:

Still won't help. All the equivocating in the world won't.

EXACTLY ONE HOUR TO GO!!!!!!!

sfan


That's funny...what happened to that apology post you had up earlier this morning Max? It was up around 10:00 am (EST) but is now gone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1164021


Can you paraphrase it?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
"
Contemporary philosophers
Many contemporary philosophers of science and analytic philosophers are strongly critical of Popper's philosophy of science[citation needed] . Popper's mistrust of inductive reasoning has led to claims that he misrepresents scientific practice. Among the professional philosophers of science, the Popperian view has never been seriously preferred to probabilistic induction, which is the mainstream account of scientific reasoning.[3] Adherents of Popper speak with disrespect of "professional philosophy", for example

W. W. Bartley:

Sir Karl Popper is not really a participant in the contemporary professional philosophical dialogue; quite the contrary, he has ruined that dialogue. If he is on the right track, then the majority of professional philosophers the world over have wasted or are wasting their intellectual careers. The gulf between Popper's way of doing philosophy and that of the bulk of contemporary professional philosophers is as great as that between astronomy and astrology.[4]

Rafe Champion:

Popper's ideas have failed to convince the majority of professional philosophers because his theory of conjectural knowledge does not even pretend to provide positively justified foundations of belief. Nobody else does better, but they keep trying, like chemists still in search of the Philosopher's Stone or physicists trying to build perpetual motion machines.[5]

and David Miller:

What distinguishes science from all other human endeavours is that the accounts of the world that our best, mature sciences deliver are strongly supported by evidence and this evidence gives us the strongest reason to believe them.’ That anyway is what is said at the beginning of the advertisement for a recent conference on induction at a celebrated seat of learning in the UK. It shows how much critical rationalists still have to do to make known the message of Logik der Forschung concerning what empirical evidence is able to do and what it does.[6]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: andrew


Now you're quoting philosophers?

You probably don't even understand what they're talking about - when it comes to philosophy, there are literally thousands of explanations for a single subject and, usually, not one of them agree.

Face it Andrew...no matter how much crap you quote you'll never convince intelligent and educated people like my fellow debunkers that what you believe in zetatalk has any correlation with realiity. Zetatalk = fantasy and science = fact.

I have come to the conclusion after reading through zetatalk, poleshift.ning and earthchanges.ning that not one of your fellow true believers has the capability to think critically or put together a logical train of thought. Not one of you have the ability to do research - not one of you have the cognitive or analytical abilities. You're all poor students and can't see beyond what Nancy say is the truth.

News