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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 09:24 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If the Zetas know that Indonesia is sinking, why did they choose an American woman to put out the warning instead of someone capable of warning the Indonesians in their own language? Or do the Zetas only wish to save the few Indonesians that understand English and are privileged enough to have an internet connection? Sounds pretty sick to me! What did the Zetas do to warn the Japanese of the tragedy before it happened, in their language, or the Haitians or Chileans? It seems to me by that using Nancy as their only emissary they are selectively warning people based on their economic situation and their ability to speak English, while deliberately not warning the vast majority of the people affected by these disasters which they claim to know in advance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1038225


+1000000000000000000000

Not only do they choose to use some woman in Wisconsin...they also failed to put out a specific warning that the events mentioned were about to happen. There's no mention or warning of these events weeks or days prior to them happening.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


It's a GENERAL warning to mankind. GENERAL warnings require small general actions - like keeping a crescent wrench in your car. It's awareness of the hazards more than anything - not the date or the time.
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 09:29 AM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Lame Max...very lame. What you basically just said is that every prophet is just giving a general warning and urging people to be prepared...something everybody knows (or should know) to do as it is. I guess the big difference is that the false prophets put fear behind it in an effort to make money.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 04/24/2011 09:31 AM
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Menow
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04/24/2011 11:59 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Who in their right mind would pay the asking price for her book?

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: bob_909


So are Nancy's follwers still going to claim she can't be in it for the money?
 Quoting: Menow 1325407


She's makes a miniscule amount of money on them. I don't think she's even recovered the printing cost. It's hardly a best seller - thanks in no small part to the debunkers!
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Her sucess or lack of success in selling that book has no bearing on my question.
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 01:33 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Who in their right mind would pay the asking price for her book?

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: bob_909


So are Nancy's follwers still going to claim she can't be in it for the money?
 Quoting: Menow 1325407


She's makes a miniscule amount of money on them. I don't think she's even recovered the printing cost. It's hardly a best seller - thanks in no small part to the debunkers!
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Her sucess or lack of success in selling that book has no bearing on my question.
 Quoting: Menow 1325407


Sure it does. It reveals the "hierarchy of intent". No one disputes that at *some* level, making money is a GOAL. It has to be - how in the world would we be able to pay for anything? How would she eat? Pay taxes? Heat the house? Pay for bandwidth? Pay for the printing costs of those books?

So yea, at some level, making money is a "goal". No - the issue is, where is that goal in relation to other motivating factors???

You're asserting (an even stronger verb than "suggesting") that her PRIMARY motivation is personal financial gain. But where is the evidence of that?

For someone like J.Z. Knight or Elizabeth Claire Prophet, there is no shortage of evidence that financial gain was a primary - if not THE primary - goal of the organizations they led.

But where is the similar evidence for Nancy? She does not charge for the material she disseminates, ALL the material in her book is on her website. She charges little more than shipping and handling for her CD's that she creates herself one order at a time. Last I knew, she was selling only one or two a month. No one is going to get RICH doing that!

I can tell you why she's not successful - the ZetaTalk message is not directed towards "individual" salvation - unlike the other two mentioned above. She does not do individual readings of ANY kind. There is no "plan" she offers people other than Troubled Times where folks are expected to do THEIR OWN preparation without ANY kind of organizational assistance - again unlike the other two which are clearly more "cult-like" in the way they function, and offer "memberships" that require a high level of financial and material commitment. With ZetaTalk, there is nothing to JOIN.

You are as a much a member of any "ZetaCult" - as I am.

If her "primary" motivation is financial, then she's picked one of the WORST business models imaginable.

Which - contrary to debunker "assertions" - SUGGESTS that it is indeed ****NOT**** her PRIMARY motivation.
Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 02:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If her "primary" motivation is financial, then she's picked one of the WORST business models imaginable.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Tell that to L. Ron Hubbard, and successors.


Which - contrary to debunker "assertions" - SUGGESTS that it is indeed ****NOT**** her PRIMARY motivation.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


No.

It merely suggests she FAILED at it.
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 02:36 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Good point. There are similarities between scientology and Nancy's pseudo-religion. L Ron Hubbard was quite successful in making money, so it stands to reason that Nancy may very well have hoped to do the same. The difference is that L Ron Hubbard was there first to fill the void. It also didn't help that Nancy wasn't as good at packaging and selling her story as L Ron Hubbard was at his.
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**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 02:38 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If her "primary" motivation is financial, then she's picked one of the WORST business models imaginable.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Tell that to L. Ron Hubbard, and successors.


Which - contrary to debunker "assertions" - SUGGESTS that it is indeed ****NOT**** her PRIMARY motivation.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


No.

It merely suggests she FAILED at it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444


>> Tell that to L. Ron Hubbard, and successors.

WHAT are talking you about? Did you even READ my post? Someone suggested that some shills are actually software responses from the NSA. After reading that reply, I can almost believe it!

L. Ron Hubbard would fall into the J.Z. Knight, Elizabeth Claire Prophet bucket. Scientology is registered as a church, and has memberships that require increasing levels of financial, material, and social committment the deeper you get involved.

That is ***NOT*** the ZetaTalk model at all, AND NEVER HAS BEEN. Not from day one.

You're failing to make a distinction between ANY of them, when in fact the differences are MUCH greater than the similarities.

That response is the PUREST form of "disinformation" response I've seen you post to date. Congratulations on OUTING yourself 74444.

>> It merely suggests she FAILED at it.

That's like saying I've failed at ballet dancing - when in fact I've NEVER tried it. Nancy never even TRIED to build a "cult" the likes of the above mentioned, ESPECIALLY and including Scientology.

Now it has been said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time. That is true. But if I'm practicing tap dancing, there is no way I'm going to emerge a ballet dancer, no matter how hard I work at it.

In order to create a cult, you actually have to attempt activities designed to bring about that reality.

Nancy has NEVER engaged or pursued such "activities" that would logically in ANY way result in such an organization. Furthermore, her VERY WORDS peppered liberally throughout the ZetaTalk material (all free online) assert forcefully that she was NOT the scion of any "member" based organization.

Nice try SHILL.

virtass

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 04/24/2011 02:42 PM
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 02:57 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
That's like saying I've failed at ballet dancing - when in fact I've NEVER tried it. Nancy never even TRIED to build a "cult" the likes of the above mentioned, ESPECIALLY and including Scientology.

Now it has been said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time. That is true. But if I'm practicing tap dancing, there is no way I'm going to emerge a ballet dancer, no matter how hard I work at it.

In order to create a cult, you actually have to attempt activities designed to bring about that reality.

Nancy has NEVER engaged or pursued such "activities" that would logically in ANY way result in such an organization. Furthermore, her VERY WORDS peppered liberally throughout the ZetaTalk material (all free online) assert forcefully that she was NOT the scion of any "member" based organization.

Nice try SHILL.

 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Of course you'll say she never tried...you, honestly, have no idea because you weren't there from the beginning. You weren't in on all the meetings that took place. You really have no idea what her motivations were or would have been. L Ron Hubbard may not have had intentions of becoming wealthy...but he did, because he was successful at selling his story. Because of that, his fantasy morphed into what is now the "church" of Scientology. He could just as easily ended up like Nancy today had people not bought in to what he was selling. Had things gone differently for Nancy, I can almost guarantee that her fantasy would have morphed into something just like Scientology. The only reason you're saying what you did is because you're a proven shill of ZetaTalk and will do whatever it takes to defend it.


virtass

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 04/24/2011 03:04 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 03:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Don't you just love the people who take a few views at SOHO and freak out, thinking something is wrong with the sun?

Thread: OH NO!!! WHAT JUST HAPPENED TO THE SUN??!!!
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


Right.

NASA is part of the massive cover up except for those SOHO images of giant objects next to the sun that they constantly post to the internet.
Menow
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04/24/2011 03:04 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
You are as a much a member of any "ZetaCult" - as I am.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Absurd. A cult-member, by very definition, supports all pronouncements of the cult leader regardless of how wrong-headed they might be. This discribes YOU perfectly in your perpetual appologist stance. How can someone who speaks out against, say, the Catholic Church be deemed, thereby, a member of that church??

If her "primary" motivation is financial, then she's picked one of the WORST business models imaginable.

Which - contrary to debunker "assertions" - SUGGESTS that it is indeed ****NOT**** her PRIMARY motivation.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


The selling of a book which is demonstrably full of utter BS is highly suspect. Nancy has used the whole Zetatalk thing as a means of financial support for herself. She has used others both by way of $ donations and other forms to support HER PERSONAL AGENDA. Monies were taken in for specific projects which were never accomplished, yet the Money is gone. I'd say "you do the math", but you are incapable of any balanced inquiry where Nancy is concerned.

End of conversation.
Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 03:07 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It's a GENERAL warning to mankind. GENERAL warnings require small general actions - like keeping a crescent wrench in your car.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Now THAT'S funny!

"Oh my God, honey, the poles are shifting! Quick get the crescent wrench out of the trunk!"
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 03:09 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The selling of a book which is demonstrably full of utter BS is highly suspect. Nancy has used the whole Zetatalk thing as a means of financial support for herself. She has used others both by way of $ donations and other forms to support HER PERSONAL AGENDA. Monies were taken in for specific projects which were never accomplished, yet the Money is gone. I'd say "you do the math", but you are incapable of any balanced inquiry where Nancy is concerned.

End of conversation.
 Quoting: Menow 1325407


Menow has a point - money was collected for a large amateur radio station to include a large tower, antenna and transceiver that never came to pass. There were also questions by one of the Troubled Times board members as to the location of $13,000. Questions Nancy continually danced around. Lets also not forget how donate money was used to renovate her house - only a small portion of which was actually going to be used as an office for ZetaTalk.
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Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 03:11 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
What about that screenplay Nancy was peddling at one point? Was she planning to give that away to Hollywood?
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 03:13 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Another good point. If she was simply willing to give it away - why didn't anyone take her up on it and make a blockbuster movie out of it? Or better yet, why wasn't a low budget documentary made for TLC, The History Channel or Science Channel?

It seems to me that Nancy had every intention of being bigger and, dare I say - wealthier, off of ZetaTalk than she actually became.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 04/24/2011 03:15 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 03:16 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
One big reason why Nancy's cult is such a failure is that she is so nasty to potential believers.

How many times have you seen her say (more or less) "I'm not going to answer your question you idiot. Go read ZetaTalk."

If she were capable of keeping her sh** more or less together, maybe she could be selling books and be a talking head in Hysteria Channel shows like Patrick Geryl.
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 03:27 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The selling of a book which is demonstrably full of utter BS is highly suspect. Nancy has used the whole Zetatalk thing as a means of financial support for herself. She has used others both by way of $ donations and other forms to support HER PERSONAL AGENDA. Monies were taken in for specific projects which were never accomplished, yet the Money is gone. I'd say "you do the math", but you are incapable of any balanced inquiry where Nancy is concerned.

End of conversation.
 Quoting: Menow 1325407


Menow has a point - money was collected for a large amateur radio station to include a large tower, antenna and transceiver that never came to pass. There were also questions by one of the Troubled Times board members as to the location of $13,000. Questions Nancy continually danced around. Lets also not forget how donate money was used to renovate her house - only a small portion of which was actually going to be used as an office for ZetaTalk.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


>> Lets also not forget how donate money was used to renovate her house

????? Where is the EVIDENCE for this? I've BEEN to her house, and took a tour of it. The last time I was there was around 2007. There was NO, I repeat ***NO*** evidence of ANY renovations whatsoever. The place is a DUMP. No real maintenance has been done on the place in at least 30 - 40 years. People have commented how "frumpy" and unkept she appears in videos. Her house is NO DIFFERENT. Now it's not "filthy" in the sense of being unhealthy. She keeps it clean enough - there's no garbage laying around, and she sweeps the floor once in awhile. But beyond that - it has been allowed to deteriorate. She basically lives in her bedroom, bathroom, dining room (doubles as the kitchen, the actual kitchen is for all practical purposes abandoned as the plumbing is shot, and nothing was ever truly updated. The appliances were fifties vintage at best. We're talking about a CENTURY old farmhouse). Her office is the parlor/living room - and there is another small sitting room off the parlor. The dining room had a small table, refrigerator, hot plate and microwave. All cooking done via microwave and hotplate.

No garage or outbuildings - she was driving an eighties vintage Chrysler mini van.

Again - please provide EVIDENCE of said "rennovations".

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 04/24/2011 03:29 PM
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 03:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
One big reason why Nancy's cult is such a failure is that she is so nasty to potential believers.

How many times have you seen her say (more or less) "I'm not going to answer your question you idiot. Go read ZetaTalk."

If she were capable of keeping her sh** more or less together, maybe she could be selling books and be a talking head in Hysteria Channel shows like Patrick Geryl.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1167045


>> One big reason why Nancy's cult is such a failure is that she is so nasty to potential believers.

True enough. She doesn't like being "challenged". And now that she has retreated to the Ning, she has less of that "stress" in her life.

Hey - I fell victim to that myself. Why do you think 2007 is the last time I had any contact with her when she lives only a two hour drive from me?

Indeed, that "trait" has done more to impair her success than any other.

I won't deny that.
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 04:10 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
????? Where is the EVIDENCE for this? I've BEEN to her house, and took a tour of it. The last time I was there was around 2007. There was NO, I repeat ***NO*** evidence of ANY renovations whatsoever. The place is a DUMP. No real maintenance has been done on the place in at least 30 - 40 years. People have commented how "frumpy" and unkept she appears in videos. Her house is NO DIFFERENT. Now it's not "filthy" in the sense of being unhealthy. She keeps it clean enough - there's no garbage laying around, and she sweeps the floor once in awhile. But beyond that - it has been allowed to deteriorate. She basically lives in her bedroom, bathroom, dining room (doubles as the kitchen, the actual kitchen is for all practical purposes abandoned as the plumbing is shot, and nothing was ever truly updated. The appliances were fifties vintage at best. We're talking about a CENTURY old farmhouse). Her office is the parlor/living room - and there is another small sitting room off the parlor. The dining room had a small table, refrigerator, hot plate and microwave. All cooking done via microwave and hotplate.

No garage or outbuildings - she was driving an eighties vintage Chrysler mini van.

Again - please provide EVIDENCE of said "rennovations".
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


LOL!! Max is in damage control mode now. Anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows donated money was used to renovate her house.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 04:19 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
While researching the renovations to Nancy's house, I came across this:

[link to www.theweeklyconstitutional.com]

One of the funniest things you'll ever read. I like the part where she hints that Al Roker replaced Willard Scott on the Today Show because Willard knew about the cover up and was too emotional about it.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 04:20 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
????? Where is the EVIDENCE for this? I've BEEN to her house, and took a tour of it. The last time I was there was around 2007. There was NO, I repeat ***NO*** evidence of ANY renovations whatsoever. The place is a DUMP. No real maintenance has been done on the place in at least 30 - 40 years. People have commented how "frumpy" and unkept she appears in videos. Her house is NO DIFFERENT. Now it's not "filthy" in the sense of being unhealthy. She keeps it clean enough - there's no garbage laying around, and she sweeps the floor once in awhile. But beyond that - it has been allowed to deteriorate. She basically lives in her bedroom, bathroom, dining room (doubles as the kitchen, the actual kitchen is for all practical purposes abandoned as the plumbing is shot, and nothing was ever truly updated. The appliances were fifties vintage at best. We're talking about a CENTURY old farmhouse). Her office is the parlor/living room - and there is another small sitting room off the parlor. The dining room had a small table, refrigerator, hot plate and microwave. All cooking done via microwave and hotplate.

No garage or outbuildings - she was driving an eighties vintage Chrysler mini van.

Again - please provide EVIDENCE of said "renovations".
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


LOL!! Max is in damage control mode now. Anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows donated money was used to renovate her house.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


By renovations if you mean the chicken coup and fish pond in the basement - then yea, "renovations".

At most HUNDREDS were spent - not thousands.

Why can't you just accept that if the money "disappeared" it went toward, rice, beans, electricity, seeds, chicken wire, PVC pipe, natural gas, beef stew, coffee, telephone bill - you know, the things EVERYONE needs to SURVIVE??

Because the truth isn't very "impressive" is it???
Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 04:58 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If the Zetas know that Indonesia is sinking, why did they choose an American woman to put out the warning instead of someone capable of warning the Indonesians in their own language? Or do the Zetas only wish to save the few Indonesians that understand English and are privileged enough to have an internet connection? Sounds pretty sick to me! What did the Zetas do to warn the Japanese of the tragedy before it happened, in their language, or the Haitians or Chileans? It seems to me by that using Nancy as their only emissary they are selectively warning people based on their economic situation and their ability to speak English, while deliberately not warning the vast majority of the people affected by these disasters which they claim to know in advance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1038225


+1000000000000000000000

Not only do they choose to use some woman in Wisconsin...they also failed to put out a specific warning that the events mentioned were about to happen. There's no mention or warning of these events weeks or days prior to them happening.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


It's a GENERAL warning to mankind. GENERAL warnings require small general actions - like keeping a crescent wrench in your car. It's awareness of the hazards more than anything - not the date or the time.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Then what the fuck is the point? Why go to all the trouble of chipping Nancy. holding live english language info sessions and simulating the seasons if 99.99% of the world population (and I am being very generous) have never even heard of Nancy Lieder, less than 1/6th of the world population speaks English, and it's only a general warning to be prepared. Fuck these Zetas are assholes! They know that Indonesia, one of the most populous nations on earth is sinking, but they don't have an emissary to warn them unless they have access to the internet and speak English and somehow find zetatalk. They knew what was going to happen in Japan, but they didn't bother to warn them. I've seen people try asking questions and they get chewed out for not reading it for themselves, no sympathy that they may not speak English well enough to wade through the mountains of zetatalk material to find the answer to their question. Yes, the zetas in Nancy's disturbed mind are pretty nasty and now by Maxipads' own admission, they are really not telling us anything but a general warning to keep a bug out bag on hand and learn some survival skills. Good thing a few people in America prepared to keep safe from the disasters in faraway lands. Too bad the people that were actually affected had no warning from the zetas.
Circuit Breaker

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04/24/2011 05:20 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Then what the fuck is the point? Why go to all the trouble of chipping Nancy. holding live english language info sessions and simulating the seasons if 99.99% of the world population (and I am being very generous) have never even heard of Nancy Lieder, less than 1/6th of the world population speaks English, and it's only a general warning to be prepared. Fuck these Zetas are assholes! They know that Indonesia, one of the most populous nations on earth is sinking, but they don't have an emissary to warn them unless they have access to the internet and speak English and somehow find zetatalk. They knew what was going to happen in Japan, but they didn't bother to warn them. I've seen people try asking questions and they get chewed out for not reading it for themselves, no sympathy that they may not speak English well enough to wade through the mountains of zetatalk material to find the answer to their question. Yes, the zetas in Nancy's disturbed mind are pretty nasty and now by Maxipads' own admission, they are really not telling us anything but a general warning to keep a bug out bag on hand and learn some survival skills. Good thing a few people in America prepared to keep safe from the disasters in faraway lands. Too bad the people that were actually affected had no warning from the zetas.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1038225


Another +1000000000000! It's interesting watching Max, Nancy and all her followers justify the lack of real warnings...the biggest excuse being that everything is in the hands of man.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
KeepingItReal

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04/24/2011 05:27 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The dining room had a small table, refrigerator, hot plate and microwave. All cooking done via microwave and hotplate.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Wow, and she presumes to tell others how to prepare? A microwave and a hotplate. I would have thought she would have built an outdoor oven not just to prepare for when microwaves and hot plates won't work, but to look after her day to day needs. But now that you mention it, I can totally imagine her in a squalid little dining room cooking kd and organic carrots on a hot plate. So basically Max, you are telling us that she doesn't practice what she preaches. Why am I not surprised.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
**ZetaMax**

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
The dining room had a small table, refrigerator, hot plate and microwave. All cooking done via microwave and hotplate.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Wow, and she presumes to tell others how to prepare? A microwave and a hotplate. I would have thought she would have built an outdoor oven not just to prepare for when microwaves and hot plates won't work, but to look after her day to day needs. But now that you mention it, I can totally imagine her in a squalid little dining room cooking kd and organic carrots on a hot plate. So basically Max, you are telling us that she doesn't practice what she preaches. Why am I not surprised.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


What's to practice? She's 70, and in relatively poor health. She has a tiny pension and social security to get by on. Her son doesn't work, is reclusive and bipolar, and is supported on her meager earnings. She did tell me that she had at least one rather wealthy acquaintance/supporter that paid off her credit card once a month. I think the bill even went to him. She gave no other information on this "relationship", but assured me that was the reason she could function without other income. If true, he of course would see what was being charged, and she of course would always be living with the uncertainty of how long this lifeline would continue. If his generosity truly had no strings attached, then I'm sure she uses the card only for necessities - as I saw NO EVIDENCE of any kind of oppulant or excessive lifestyle. That said, everyone has furnaces go out, cars break down, unforeseen medical expenses, etc. The bandwidth to keep ZetaTalk functioning with several global mirrors is certainly hundreds a month.

Whoever this "angel" (or angels) is, was left to speculation. But - and I intimated this before - it also opens the possibility of a "psyop". The only problem I have with that notion though, is what's in it for Nancy? The lifestyle she "enjoys" hardly seems adequate compensation for all the "work" (updating the website and weekly chat and newsletter) - "such as it is".

On the other hand, being assured that her and Kurt's NEEDS will always be taken care of, would certainly work as compensation for scores of desperate people in this world - so perhaps it's not all that far-fetched.
KeepingItReal

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04/24/2011 06:18 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy once justified donations to her cause by saying that her homestead was going to be an example to others on how to live sustainably and in preparation for the pole shift. After all the times Max defended her, now he comes clean and says she is just a frumpy old bag lady taking care of a lazy and mentally ill adult son, living in an old house without plumbing and kitchen facilities on a pension and the charity of an anonymous sugar daddy. She writes a survival guide, but she lives in a house that by the sounds of it wouldn't withstand a wicked storm, let alone a pole shift and she has done nothing in preparation of her pole shift like get her son to build an alternate cooking facility and a storm cellar. You don't need money to do that. Some example for the rest of us! Max apparently doesn't see that his statements tend to confirm what we already knew about Nancy. She is no authority on anything. She is just another old abandoned woman desperately trying to feel important.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
bob_909

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04/24/2011 06:50 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It would appear that the non-profit is dying.

[link to www.zetatalk.com]
“Fear always springs from ignorance” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
ZetaMax NLI
User ID: 1355664
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04/24/2011 07:02 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
During my brief tour of Nancy's dilapidated house, I was surprised to discover Andrew, quite naked, masturbating in an upstairs bedroom.

Luser was in the next room doing awful things to the fresh corpse of a swine.

I asked to stay the weekend, but was shown the door after being forced to sign an NDA and submit to a thorough and unnecessarily spirited anal probe.
**ZetaMax**

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04/24/2011 07:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Nancy once justified donations to her cause by saying that her homestead was going to be an example to others on how to live sustainably and in preparation for the pole shift. After all the times Max defended her, now he comes clean and says she is just a frumpy old bag lady taking care of a lazy and mentally ill adult son, living in an old house without plumbing and kitchen facilities on a pension and the charity of an anonymous sugar daddy. She writes a survival guide, but she lives in a house that by the sounds of it wouldn't withstand a wicked storm, let alone a pole shift and she has done nothing in preparation of her pole shift like get her son to build an alternate cooking facility and a storm cellar. You don't need money to do that. Some example for the rest of us! Max apparently doesn't see that his statements tend to confirm what we already knew about Nancy. She is no authority on anything. She is just another old abandoned woman desperately trying to feel important.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal


I said the plumbing in the kitchen was suspect. I didn't say she didn't have any plumbing.

She tried - the effort failed. I'm sure you're not shocked. A self-sustaining homestead is a VERY difficult thing to pull off, even if funds are unlimited. It's almost impossible on a shoestring these days.
KeepingItReal

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04/24/2011 07:18 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yet she tells others how to prepare. And no, you don't need a lot of money to make cooking facilities if you have land. As usual you are spinning your own spin. Face it. Either you made that up about Nancy's house because you wanted us to feel sorry for her, or you told the truth for once and now have to cover your gaffe because it further exposes Nancy as a charlatan, and not a very good one at that. At least Max finally admits Nancy FAILED.

Last Edited by KeepingItReal on 04/24/2011 07:19 PM
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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04/24/2011 07:22 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If her "primary" motivation is financial, then she's picked one of the WORST business models imaginable.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Tell that to L. Ron Hubbard, and successors.


Which - contrary to debunker "assertions" - SUGGESTS that it is indeed ****NOT**** her PRIMARY motivation.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


No.

It merely suggests she FAILED at it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444


>> Tell that to L. Ron Hubbard, and successors.

WHAT are talking you about? Did you even READ my post? Someone suggested that some shills are actually software responses from the NSA. After reading that reply, I can almost believe it!
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Ad Hominem noted.

L. Ron Hubbard would fall into the J.Z. Knight, Elizabeth Claire Prophet bucket. Scientology is registered as a church, and has memberships that require increasing levels of financial, material, and social committment the deeper you get involved.

That is ***NOT*** the ZetaTalk model at all, AND NEVER HAS BEEN. Not from day one.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Precisely what model do you think Scientology fit into in, say, it's first year?

Now, compare that to Zetatalk in ITS infancy. I expect you'll find they were quite similar.

Now, imagine if Nancy's cult had *really* taken off. Say she had hundreds of thousands of followers in 2002. What do you imagine that would have looked like?

However, Nancy lacked the drive, luck, chutzpah, or charisma of Hubbard, and the people he collected around himself. But I suspect you'll find both cults eerily similar in their beginnings. Lieder's failed. Hubbard's did not.

You're failing to make a distinction between ANY of them, when in fact the differences are MUCH greater than the similarities.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


I have been asking for qualitative differences for *years.* Yet, I have never seen an adequate answer. Zetatalk fits nicely into the cult mold -- albeit, a failed one. It just never caught on THAT strongly, and continually failed whenever dates were involved, among other failures.


That response is the PUREST form of "disinformation" response I've seen you post to date. Congratulations on OUTING yourself 74444.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Ad hominem noted again. I find the comparisons between Zetatalk and Scientology striking -- as, obviously, do *you* given your strong reaction. That's quite interesting.


>> It merely suggests she FAILED at it.

That's like saying I've failed at ballet dancing - when in fact I've NEVER tried it. Nancy never even TRIED to build a "cult" the likes of the above mentioned, ESPECIALLY and including Scientology.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


I disagree. The Troubled Times, the chats, the control issues she continually has all point to the same sort of mindset. But, thankfully, she never had what it took for her cult to really take off. Scientology *did* take off. But the origins seems quite similar. Sorry that offends you so much, but there it is.

In order to create a cult, you actually have to attempt activities designed to bring about that reality.

Nancy has NEVER engaged or pursued such "activities" that would logically in ANY way result in such an organization.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


Except Troubled Times, Inc.

Furthermore, her VERY WORDS peppered liberally throughout the ZetaTalk material (all free online) assert forcefully that she was NOT the scion of any "member" based organization.
 Quoting: **ZetaMax**


I concede that she could merely be a figurehead in such an organization, with strings being pulled by someone else, but the result is the same. The Zetatalk message was built around the same ideas as MANY doomsday cults in history. It adopted many of the same 'thought contagions' as other, more successful religions. The fact that it largely failed is irrelevant.

Aaron Lynch, a writer who attempted modeling how beliefs spread through societies and populations, wrote:

Thought contagions resemble computer viruses in one key respect: they "program" for their own transmission. Such beliefs self-propagate by inducing evangelism, abundant child raising, and dropout prevention. Beliefs harnessing these human functions most effectively out-propagate the "weaker" variants. Evolving like life forms through natural selection, thought contagions vie for ever stronger influence in human lives.

The similarities to biological evolution even inspired Zoologist Richard Dawkins to coin the word "meme," rhyming with "dream," to denote a gene-like or virus-like unit of culture. Memes range from socially positive to outright destructive, much as microbes run the gamut from beneficial to harmful. Especially powerful in matters of religion, sexuality, reproductive issues, family life, and health, meme contagions reach deeply into our personal lives. An increasingly robust theory known as memetics can express this in mathematical and symbolic terms without biological metaphors. However, it does not take equations to see that memes exert major effects on the information health of society.

A classic example of thought contagion comes from Christianity, which has a large complex of memes motivating adherents to spread the faith. The idea that unbelievers go to hell moves believer to spread the faith to anyone they care about. This idea spreads faster in combination with various other beliefs. For example, the hell meme combined with a "love your neighbor" meme inspires adherents to convert more than just friends and family, indeed anyone yet unconverted. Memetic evolution does not "care" if it is mixing a negative idea like hell with a socially positive, beneficial meme like neighborly love. All that matters to memetic evolution is the result: more converts won per host per year than for the competing Pagan and Jewish beliefs.

Combining with a third belief that "the end is near" spreads even faster still, by telling adherents that the time is running out to "save" friends and loved ones. Many evangelical sects believe that the end is near, and they rank among the fastest growing varieties of Christianity in modern times. Taking the idea very seriously, they even name the time leading up to apocalypse with a proper noun: the End Times. Ancient Christians also thought that time was very quickly running out, and this belief helped Christianity out-propagate Paganism and Judaism. Initially, the idea served a purpose to those who viewed the end of time as better than Roman rule. That got the idea started and accepted by an early audience. From there, it took on a life of its own by urging believers to hurry their efforts to "save" others.

After Christianity spread across Europe, the apocalypse belief lost much of its contagion. The preaching it inspired would mostly reach those already converted and those who had heard but rejected the message. With persuadable adults scarce, the main avenue to spreading the faith became child raising. So memetic evolution tilted further toward the big family doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, which where already spreading in Roman times. Because the hell idea still moved people to pass the faith to their children, it never faded. And as generations grew up with no experience of early evangelism or failed doomsaying, fresh waves of doomsday fervor could again sweep the continent. Major outbreaks happened before the year 1000 and the year 1033, as documented by scholars at the Center for Millennial Studies. Lesser outbreaks focused on dates all the way up to the present. But the more memorable the apocalypse date, the longer people retained it and the more easily they spread it. This favored ideas of apocalypse on the century and on the millennium. The Biblical book of Revelation played a big part, by prophesying an End Times era of a thousand years. Just one little detail held beliefs in check: the world refused to end on schedule. So the apocalypse memes hardy enough to pass down over the generations asserted an imminent end, but without a definite date. This keeps some sense of urgency while preventing the dropouts that happen whenever a precisely scheduled doomsday does not happen.
 Quoting: Aaron Lynch


[link to www.loveblender.com]

Does that sound the least bit familiar to a certain group of individuals at a certain date in 2003?

I believe I understand your anger, ZM. I might point out, however, that you seem to be merely misdirecting it.

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