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Posted for posterity....

PR
Would you consider airing your view of Nancy's story? given that you knew her from a different viewpoint, I am interested in how you see the message and it's changes over the years.

I will understand if you decline 'tho.
Quoting: Prof_Rabbit


In response to your request;

From 1995 to May 15, 2003, Nancy Leider predicted that on or about the date of May 15, 2003 the planet known as Niburu would re-enter our solar system and cause havoc to earth. She further stated that the information she was providing was given to her telepathically by an alien species known as the Zeta and the arrival of Niburu would validate the Zeta existance.With the Y2K predictions also occurring during that time, many were of a disposition to believe her or at least retain an element of doubt until May 15, 2003.

My relationship with Nancy Leider has been solely based on the Internet, never having met her. The story she has woven appears to be based to a great degree on the works of Zechariah Sitchen, Velikovsky and others.

To recap that time period;
Around the year 2000 sky coordinates were provided for the location of Niburu from Nancy Lieder/Zeta. In September 2002, Steve Havas rented time on a telescope and began imaging the coordinates. In the first images, something was found on the images at the exact coordinates. This got my and others interest. From September 2002 to March 2003 telescope imaging was used tracking the coordinates given by Nancy Leider and an ongoing debate began over those images.

My direct involvement on this issue of Nancy Leider and Niburu involved review of those images, an attempted debate on the Sci.Astro forum, and the presentation to Sci.Astro of a statement of claim stating that the arrival of Niburu on May 15,2003 was evidence for the existence of the zeta.
[link to groups.google.com]
[link to groups.google.com]

During the time I was working on the telescope images on the basis of my experience with photo imaging, not astronomy. From September 2002 to February 2003, anomalies appeared on the imaging which could be plotted on a star map.

After February there was no conclusive evidence from the imaging, which should be expected if a planet was moving closer into our solar system. In March 2003 telescope imaging was discontinued. In March / April 2003, Nancy Leider stated that the planet could be seen with binoculars or small telescopes. Many images from around the world were posted to show its arrival. Some of these were hoaxes and some were unknowns. By April 2003, the planet was alleged to be near the sun, which brought out even more photos consisting of lens flare from cameras or sunlight on cloud formations.

Although 2002 and early 2003 saw an uptick in solar and geological activity, from March to May 2003, no conclusive evidence of an incoming planet was apparent.

May 15 2003 came and went and on May 21 2003 I posted to Sci.Astro forum stating that the statement of claim was rejected due to the non arrival of Niburu.
[link to groups.google.com]
[link to groups.google.com]

With the no show of Niburu in May 2003, most rejected her claim and moved on to other things. Myself included. Whereas before May 15, 2003 the possibility existed, after May 15, 2003 no credibility in this claim remains.

To explain the failed prediction, Nancy Leider stated the whole episode was a "white lie" to confuse the powers that be. With the introduction of the "white lie" to retrieve her predictive credibility some continued to believe. Nancy Leider has continued stating the planet passage is imminent and attempts to convince others of her validity.

In conclusion;

I have watched these past six years since 2003 and continue to observe the ongoing debate surrounding Niburu. Looking back and attempting to make sense of what this lady is up to defies ready explanation. Because of the lack of evidence for her initial statements, and the failure of her prediction, one can only presume that the individual is suffering from some disorder or trying to retain notoriety on the Internet.

In my opinion, the theories of Sitchen, Hapgood and Velikovsky deserve further study; the theories of Nancy Leider do not.

My regrets in this whole episode are first that I played a small part in a deception that has affected many. And secondly, some of my comments during the debate in 2002/2003 were unkind especially when dealing with IM Openminded. Up until that time I considered myself rational and correct in things that I had undertaken but found it was possible to become emotional and wrong, providing me with both a humbling and, in retrospect, a necessary experience for me. I now have relearned to approach issues from a more balanced point of view.

Moving on from this experience, I have been able to regain a level of balance and evolve my believe structure on rational facts rather than emotional arguments.

I now approach all new claims made on the Internet or elsewhere with healthy scepticism based on evidence and facts, and I encourage others to do the same.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


This is worth bookmarking to post on her chats. If posted, please refrain from any further posting or responding. Her followers need to know her history.

They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

:_absurd:

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE!?!?!?!?!?!?!

They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.



Since Nancy has time now ZetaMelfey as well can spent more time again to post silly gifs...

They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.

:_absurd:

Since Nancy has time now ZetaMelfey as well can spent more time again to post silly gifs...


After going through Ms LIEDer's latest "chat" thread offerings it is quite obvious to say that her zetacult has finally died a pathetic death.

:excited:

It is indeed extraordinary how much the zetacrap has sunk down into un-attention just by the simple method of avoiding their threads...

Debunkers boycott at its best!

Debunkers to mods!

They'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that Nancy is right.




Max, did you actually make the statement about someone being a direct decendent of Moses? You're kidding, right?

Posted for posterity....

PR
Would you consider airing your view of Nancy's story? given that you knew her from a different viewpoint, I am interested in how you see the message and it's changes over the years.

I will understand if you decline 'tho.
Quoting: Prof_Rabbit


In response to your request;
(snip)


Kindest Regards
J.William Dell

Posted for posterity....


To recap that time period;
Around the year 2000 sky coordinates were provided for the location of Niburu from Nancy Lieder/Zeta. In September 2002, Steve Havas rented time on a telescope and began imaging the coordinates. In the first images, something was found on the images at the exact coordinates. This got my and others interest. From September 2002 to March 2003 telescope imaging was used tracking the coordinates given by Nancy Leider and an ongoing debate began over those images.
(snip)

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell

What is the date of that JW Dell statement? There needs to be one on there.

Posted for posterity....
Dell is STILL trying to save face.....

Everyone is living in the past. A plausible reason was given why the crustal shift did not happen then in 2003

The US if they had won the Irag War which they didn't.

I would have realized it was a failed prediction and was the reason given for the 2003 no show and is wrong.

I know the Debunkeres are looking for anything that would show that Planet X does not exist...

...and have found some consolidation in William's post.I wish the Debunkers well in their continuing quest to stop Zetatalk.

If the Earth was normal as for say the last 200 years, today then I am not stupid and can easily point out that nothing that Nancy has said in ZetaTalk is true at all. But I can't do that. the Debunkers won't even admit a simple thing that the Sun is no longer yellow anymore

Even after scores of GLP'ers can see that this statement is false the Debunkers continue to portray a Yellow Sun is not a White Sun

With that in mind and other easy to see signs that the Debunkers care to say is false .

I know it kills their credibility fast and drives people every week over to Nancy's chat thread to look for answers

Nancy is not worried, like the Debunkers are

Good luck William and the rest of the Debunker camp

Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.


I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.

I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell

Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.


I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.

I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


Soon

Soon

Try this again....
Thanks, Dell.
First, my answers should be considered in the context that we were in a time of a new,unknown and rapidly growing wonder called the World Wide Web. Up until that point, information was extremely difficult and expensive to get.With the advent of the Internet, information became
available in copious amounts for free to those that wanted to search.


If I might ask: I have wondered what is it about the Zetatalk idea that makes it 'catchy.' It isn't a matter of intelligence whether one tends to believe ZT or not:lots of very intelligent people will have beliefs that are outlandish to the mainstream.

There was enough truth wrapped among the glitter to spark an interest. The theories of Sitchen, Hapgood, and Velikovsky all provide alternate possibilities to our past human and geologic history when compared to what is presently accepted. ZT has wrapped in those alternatives and others. As well, the possibility of proving the existance of extraterrestrial life forms is something I was looking for.

Having someone provide information about a future verifiable event to prove the alien informant’s existance was of interest. From there, its a matter of being drawn into a position on the subject over time (in my case,about 5 years) and reinforcing that believe structure by seeking evidence to support the new personal paradigm and rejecting non-supporting evidence.


What do you think was the quality of the ZT ideas that led you to believe it, rather than other similar ideas out there?

The whole premise of ZT was the arrival of Niburu on or about May 15 2003 to prove the existance of grey aliens. From 1995 to May 2003 that message never wavered.To me, because of the tie in to the above mentioned scholars and the ZT premise, it had more credibility than the Sheldon Nidles,Daniel Min, Lightworkers and others populating the web.It had a date for completion.
My tipping point to "true believer" was when the telescope images were taken in Sept/Oct 2002 and I became actively involved.


Likewise, how did you maintain the self control necessary to break free of the ZT idea once PX didn't show up?

Having a definitive end date for the prediction of incoming planet/proof of alien existance provided a trigger and opportunity to remove myself from the paradigm.
My presenting of a "statement of claim" and "rejection of claim" on Sci.Astro formed a part of that trigger. Having loyal friends was also a factor.


I think that takes a very rare quality in a person, a very rare strength, and you should be quite pleased with yourself for possessing it.
I am glad you are well. Please answer if you have the time.


I thank you for your kind words.



Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719433
8/4/2009 1:24 PM
Dell, if that's you, then my hat's off to you. Admitting that one is wrong is one of the better qualities of a person with character. Many of the present day px crowd could learn from you.

I am who I say I am and thank you for your kind words as well.

Admitting one is wrong is not as hard as it might seem, and if you are wrong, admitting it is the honourable thing to do.
Whether admitting to being wrong publicly or not, dealing with the aftermath of being wrong is the greater challenge for the individual.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell


Soon

What is the date of that JW Dell statement? There needs to be one on there.


Date witten was August 2nd 2009 and original post exists at
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]


Posted for posterity....
Dell is STILL trying to save face.....


At this point, saving face is meaningless.The debate ended long ago.


[/quote:Menow 405501]
WOAH! You located Dell??? How? Excuse me if I have missed something.


Were you looking for me??? ;o)

The request for comment was made in another thread and the response to Prof. Rabbit was provided publicly rather than privately in hopes that it may be a positive benefit to some.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell

Everyone is living in the past. A plausible reason was given why the crustal shift did not happen then in 2003

I have wondered what had become of you and what your current opinion would be. I'm sure it will be of positive benefit for those who will accept what it means. Thanks for giving it.

The "saving face" point I raised was about your statement that something was found right at Nancy's coords. Such was NOT the case and played an important role in her ability to perpetuate her hoax. "objects" were found NEAR to her coordinates. However, they were, for the most part NOT OBJECTS AT ALL. There was one known asteroid, but the specks of fluff she pointed out were mainly things like hot pixels, etc, preserved in the final stack by summing the images instead of using a method which would eliminate such flaws in the individual images.


Any chance you will agree with this at this time?