Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

i can. when i think if i was an entity in the higher (4) density, this is EXACTLY what i would have done - incarnate here, on this world, or similar.

and why did YOU choose to be here? since you dislike and reject this place, you didnt choose it, yourself. probably your Spirit Guide knows better what lessons do you need, youngster. (spiritually speaking)




so what the big deal? i dont think of school as something necessary. it is harmfull, in fact. what good is to be brainwashed by the dominant paradigm?

furthermore i think isolation from this sick society/civilization/system is a burning NECCESITY if we are to create equal, more just and generally more benign society.

I am an atheist of course, there is no great ruler in heaven ... but I think there can be concioussness without physical existence ... not souls, not ghosts ... but since 90% of our universe is "dark matter", which has been proven by science, I think there is a probability that concioussness can exist in this dark matter, whatever it is.

"its enough for me that he claims planet Earth is round and evolves around the Sun. I dont need to research him further to know he is full of crap gasworthy deceiver"

- said medieval "de-bunker" about Galileo.

Cant wait for 2012 when your whole house of cards falls together ... wonder if you will show up hers still, after NOTHING happened, no pole shift , no planet X and Nancy will tell all it was another white lie.

School is not brainwashing if you dont allow it ... without smart people who went to school to learn math and physics you would not be able to sit on a computer and read ZetaTalk.

Gallileo made claims he could PROVE without doubt ... Nancy cant prove shit .... Gllileos stuff worked ... and he would laugh his ass of if he would hear Nancys claims.

i dont care about 2012 any more than 2013 or 2024.
i dont think i can stand living in this sick system for long time. i will most likely "eject" myself from it, to walk the talk, and to popularize retreat from society, sooner or later.

Dunno if my english is good enough to get it right ... but if that means your about to go into the woods ... GO AHEAD ... but you cant read ZetaTalk then anymore, on a computer that smart people who went to school btw. invented.

You say "popularize", what my translator program says it means to "make popular to other people" ... sounds like you intend to make up another cult ?

Don't you love that? Whenever one of their predictions fails, they come back and say, "Well, it would have happened except all of this is in the hands of man so we can't really say for sure if something will happen or not."

heh!
he made these claims but they were ridiculed, rejected and brought consequences upon him before they were recognized.

dont you think they were not easily provable before they were **recognized**? then why they werent before? how did it happen that dominant paradigm (elites who preached it and masses who bought into it) ridiclued and persecuted smth that was easily provable?

It is getting old. Everyone knows the real reason she put the dog down thanks to the transcript and recording of the radio program. No matter how hard or how many times Nancy tries to say otherwise, nothing will change that fact. Why she continues to deny it is beyond me. If she had been smart, when the recording and transcript were presented, she would have simply owned up to what she did and simply admitted she made a mistake.

i dont need to read anything on the computer, i dont even need ZetaTalk. let me paraphrase: i dont need ZetaTalk to KNOW it, to know what it says.

i intend to make a community, a permanent settlement based on these values. a group of like-minds, volunteers. does that sound like cult? maybe, i dont care what you or anyone else calls it - it changes NOTHING.

That's the point I've tried to make in the past when either Nancy or her followers trot out weather events as "evidence" of "Planet X." Could it be evidence? Yes, if there were other things to add to it that supported the existence of some "rogue planet." But there simply isn't any and, as you said, there are other causes for weather events that need to be explored before one can simply proclaim the reason is because of some "rogue planet."

First, Gallileo lived in a time when 99% of the western civilization wasnt able to read. so the common man was not able to understand what he was talking about at all. He was ridiculed because TPTB feared a loss of their power (church ect.).

Nancy can not prove her claims in a scientific way and has been wrong all the time. She makes claims so vague that they fit enough news storys to make gullible people believe her. for example she says "there will be earthquakes due to Planet X" ... of course, there are earthquakes all the time. Then, when there is an earthquake she says "Zetas right again". Its the same way people like nostradamus worked, never predict something precise.It is as if I say "there will be rain" and when it rains a few days later I say "you seen, I am a prophet, I told you there will be rain".

To make me believe her claims she would have to predict something with 100% accuracy.

You remember Blossom Goodchild ? She did it wrong ... she claimed stuff to happen on a precise date and failed badly of course .... we did never hear from her again.

And every hurricane season since then has been mild. Based on what Nancy claimed, we should have been seeing Hurricane Katrina type storms every year by now.

And really, really funny!

Now where did you pluck this quote from or did you make it up?

Medieval period was before the birth of Galileo.

So you're going to start a commune? Let's see how long that lasts once one of you gets sick and needs to run back to civilization.

So "consciousness" has an "existence" outside of "matter"?

Is it a form of "energy"?

After all, electricity needs a "medium", but since it can travel through multiple conductors, nobody claims that electricity is simply a "byproduct" of any particular conductor.

Is "consciousness" a form of "energy" - and if so, would it conform to some of the same "laws" - such as conversation of energy (energy is neither created nor destroyed - simply conveyed and transformed)?

It's called a SCAM or like Nancy you just crave attention.

Maybe some of this applies to ZetaTalk, or any other cult for that matter.

BTW, my first post, cheers all!

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.
6. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
7. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
8. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.
3. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
4. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
5. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
6. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
7. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
8. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
9. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
10. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.

You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.

where did i get it? just look UP to the post i quoted and change it all to Galileo.

i assume, for the sake of simplicity that historic period untill it was accepted that Earth is one of the planets to be called dark Ages. matters not. you got it quite well what i mean.

Yes, that's right. I had forgotten about that one. Those various names came from random, spur of the moment inspiration or simply adding letters until I found an un-used nick to register. Actually, it was Yaaada, I believe. I just kept adding a's until it worked. "Howmo" came from "Howard Moore"... an identity I invented to try to avoid Nancy's(Clipper?) ban blitz on TT-watch long enough to get some good questions through the filter. I'll never forget where we pinned Nancy in a corner to the point where she abandoned her own forum. Good times!

Your apology is easily accepted and friendship welcomed.

Yes, "Howmo" was banned by "Obany"(Gerard) over and over again. What a hoot! Those were the days. It's too bad that IMO and Sarah Mac are not around these days. Maybe they have more of a "life" now than some of us!;O

More insipid baiting. Pathetic. Almost comical.

Something we pointed out to them. It wasn't the event itself that caused so much loss of life. It was the increased population on the coast.


Another excellent point. You don't know how many times we've tried to tell her followers that only to be called "shills" for simply suggesting it. We never said the tsunami wasn't the result of "Planet X." We simply pointed out that events similar to that have happened before so something needed to be presented to show that "Planet X" was the reason for this event...something that linked the two.


From my point of view, I think earthquake activity has remained fairly consistent. As you know, Nancy claimed there would be an exponential increase in earthquake activity. That simply isn't happening. I won't name names, but one person has argued that earthquakes are increasing...pointing to the increasing number of earthquakes below a 4 magnitude. However, it was pointed out to him that what he was really seeing was the direct result of a larger sensor network. Because of this, earthquakes that had, for years, gone undetected were now showing up. Naturally, to counter this, he claimed that had nothing to do with it...even though the USGS's own site stated the same thing. It has also been pointed out that if earthquakes were increasing, we wouldn't only be seeing an increase of magnitude 4 or lower quakes. There would also be an increase in larger magnitude quakes. Their explanation? The USGS is manipulating the data. One thing that's really funny about their earthquake claims is they point everyone to the USGS as "proof"...but when it's pointed out to them that they simply don't understand the data presented and that it doesn't support their claims, they then say that the USGS is part of the cover up. As an example, Nancy will look at the data and claim it shows some "global quake" when in reality what she's seeing is the same quake as detected by sensors around the world...not multiple quakes detected by the network.


You know, JW, as a former "supporter" it is really refreshing to hear you say this. It's exactly what we've been trying to tell her current followers for years! They can make claims that geologic and meteorologic events on Earth are the result of "Planet X" all they want. But, until they have a good, quality image of this "planet" all they have are claims. And considering this "planet" has been hanging out by the sun for over six years, getting a photo of it wouldn't be difficult.

Did you see where somebody brought up "Zetas" old magnitude prediction? That is one of the most clear-cut failed astronomical predictions. She ridiculed the question and refused to have "Zetas" answer it. Heh! I couldn't resist posting a response to that on her thread. Even though Nancy claims that PX was found at her coords, she CAN'T claim that it was imaged at mag 10-11 as "Zetas" predicted. It has alwasy been a thorn in her side. That's why there was no real response to the question again this week.

Yes, its energy IMO. It probably can transform to "matter" because there is no "matter", matter is just a concept of our human awareness sytem ... all we are aware of is nothing but a dream we are stuck in ... what is "really" out there, nobody knows.

Time for him? What do you mean? Do you mean there's still time for him to prove Nancy is wrong? We've done that over and over again.

Here we were having a good discussion and, once again, you prove you aren't interested in discussion. You're just plain shilly.

Best first post ever bro.

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

as
checked against zetatalk:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

no authoritarianism. fans decide what to believe or what actions to take, based on their own resolve. noone is forced to follow or not follow these advices. decision is up to YOU.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Live chat IS meant for questions. critical inquiry doe not equal violent disrupting.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

no donations from fans or anyone other than volunteer donations. zetatalk is on Nancy's budget. for example, i do not pay anything for it!

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

"unreasonable"?! now, who will tell us what is "reasonable" and what isnt? let it to people to decide what it is to them.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

?! noone is "abused", except by their own.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

blackmail attempts are classics. what group or individual has NO?

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

if particular individuals are not "good", they are not. they are far between, though.

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

many of the fans came to these same conclusions independently, as intuition or simple logic. zetas often agree with what questioning human says.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

zetatalk advice is EXTREMELY practical - get hand tools and start gardening!

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Nancy is Nancy, Zetas are Zetas, i am me, etc. noone is "blurred".

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

not always. it can be just foolish arrogance or deliberate disruption.

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

i will say for myself. english is not my native language. zetatalk is one of the things i read alot for many years now - no wonder i picked some "Nancy Lieder english" or even her style of speaking.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.

zetatalk **encourages** independent thought, critical thinking and individual choice.

6. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

as i said before, i (and sure about other fans) dont need ZetaTalk to decide on my actions.

7. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

people can decide to cooperate with whosever goals they choose. [and integrate anyones goals into their lives].

8. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

a person can decide to do all these, no? or it is not free to decide re this?

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

of course not.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

if people dont agree - they are obliged to maintain contact? whys that?!!


Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

judgement is a way to deal with reality. people constantly "judge" everything they encounter in life. add to that that people in fact ARE good or evil, motivation is what counts.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.

group leader has to disclose her personal budget and finances, from which the website is maintained? what for?

and more generally, why do i have to know about the personal finances of the person who maintains a website, which i read and lose no single cent for it? how does it constitute "group leader" at all?

3. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

certainly true about zetatalk!

4. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

watch how many are encouraged to assist on ZT live chats, me included.

5. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

Nancy/Zetas are not anyones parents to decide for people.

6. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

hehehe... How many do-gooders are blackmailed? you have your answer

7. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

one decides himself.

8. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

Nancy never crossed that line.

9. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

exactly what the whole ZetaTalk thrives to achieve!

10. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

check!

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

they refer to other sources who predict with accuracy.

Last Edited by andrew on 09/20/2009 11:45 AM

Perhaps...but that doesn't mean it's correct or even believed. We all know that you and User try to make popularity mean that people believe her, or that it means the information contained therein is correct. But it doesn't. In fact, I'd like to point out that her threads are popular, yes...but popular with "debunkers!" Ever since we largely abandoned her threads, they struggle to stay afloat. Which is one reason why you keep coming over here.