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ZetaTalk is immensely popular!!!

It's ego all the way, and we are ALL susceptable. Zetatalk is a VERY crafty lure for the ego. I am firmly resolved to the opinion that "Zetas" are something beyond the simple consciousnes of little Nancy Lieder.


That just shows how gullible YOU are.

It's ego all the way, and we are ALL susceptable. Zetatalk is a VERY crafty lure for the ego. I am firmly resolved to the opinion that "Zetas" are something beyond the simple consciousnes of little Nancy Lieder.

Not really. That can be taken in a number of ways and I intend to leave it like that. I will say that I believe that Nancy is possessed by whatever "Zetas" is. That is not to necessarily imply the standard religious connotations.


Speak for yourself! I'm not susceptible!

I believe YOU are possessed by whatever "Zetas" is.

'Little Nancy Lieder's consciousness is more than capable of creating everything 'The Zetas' have said. It's all bullshit after all, exactly the sort of crap I would expect to be made up by a relatively uneducated Wisconsin woman.

I think you believe ZetaTalk is more significant than it is because you need to justify to yourself the amount of time you have spent 'debunking' it. Actually it's meaningless crap produced by a nutter. I see no reason to adopt your rather po-faced and arrogant attitude. You seem to be bordering on being as deluded as Lieder herself!

So "consciousness" has an "existence" outside of "matter"?

Is it a form of "energy"?

After all, electricity needs a "medium", but since it can travel through multiple conductors, nobody claims that electricity is simply a "byproduct" of any particular conductor.

Is "consciousness" a form of "energy" - and if so, would it conform to some of the same "laws" - such as conversation of energy (energy is neither created nor destroyed - simply conveyed and transformed)?


Yes, its energy IMO. It probably can transform to "matter" because there is no "matter", matter is just a concept of our human awareness sytem ... all we are aware of is nothing but a dream we are stuck in ... what is "really" out there, nobody knows.

but i believe real Zetas, yes.


Because your stupid, thats why ... you could as well join Scientology.


i "join" anything that has grain of truth, whatever it is. [and i believe many sources have IT].

scientology certainly does, as well as christianity, as well as science. but no one of these have the ultimate truth, it is dispersed in them, and mixed with misjudgements.

while ZetaTalk certainly doesnt have an ultimate truth, to my mind it is closest to it. its limitations are:
1-Zetas are only Zetas, they do not know everything;
2-putting it to words can somewhat distort the message (it is after all, Nancy's own understanding in choosing best words to describe these concepts).

and what do you mean "join"? i did not ever and probably will not ever join any organized group, religiuos gathering. unless it would be a group of ZetaTalk fans establishing a self-reliant community!

but i believe real Zetas, yes.


Because your stupid, thats why ... you could as well join Scientology.


i "join" anything that has grain of truth, whatever it is. [and i believe many sources have IT].

scientology certainly does, as well as christianity, as well as science. but no one of these have the ultimate truth, it is dispersed in them, and mixed with misjudgements.

while ZetaTalk certainly doesnt have an ultimate truth, to my mind it is closest to it. its limitations are:
1-Zetas are only Zetas, they do not know everything;
2-putting it to words can somewhat distort the message (it is after all, Nancy's own understanding in choosing best words to describe these concepts).

and what do you mean "join"? i did not ever and probably will not ever join any organized group, religiuos gathering. unless it would be a group of ZetaTalk fans establishing a self-reliant community!

Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???

Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???

Maybe some of this applies to ZetaTalk, or any other cult for that matter.

BTW, my first post, cheers all!

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.


WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

as
checked against zetatalk:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

no authoritarianism. fans decide what to believe or what actions to take, based on their own resolve. noone is forced to follow or not follow these advices. decision is up to YOU.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Live chat IS meant for questions. critical inquiry doe not equal violent disrupting.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

"unreasonable"?! now, who will tell us what is "reasonable" and what isnt? let it to people to decide what it is to them.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

?! noone is "abused", except by their own.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

blackmail attempts are classics. what group or individual has NO?

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

if particular individuals are not "good", they are not. they are far between, though.

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

many of the fans came to these same conclusions independently, as intuition or simple logic. zetas often agree with what questioning human says.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

(snip)

Agreed - ZetaTalk is still immensely popular!!!

what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.

what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.

It is only SAID to be "up to you". There is a clear system of judgement of and retribution against those who do not believe.

yeah!? what could she supposedly do to those "who dont believe"?!

NANCY/"Zetas" say what is "reasonable", hmm? THEY say that there is a MASSIVE government conspiracy to silence the message of Zetatalk. That is the very definition of a cult, you dolt! It uses the fear of persecution to solidify it's power over it's members. Get a CLUE!

how can you be so sure there is no such conspiracy? world history is a list of conspiracies, it is made of them

one can think whatever, but as for those former followers - it is their own choice and they are free to do what they will.
Of course it is, but that is DISAPPROVED OF by the group and its leader(s). Duh?

and so what? why should one care what is approved or disapproved by the group/leader?

Semantics. Anyone who questioned Nancy/"Zetas" veracity on TT-watch was summmerily attacked and branded as a "disrupter".

not without basis, im sure

9. The group/leader is always right.

many among the fans doubt or disagree with many aspects of the message.

But they are extremely reticent to SAY so. That has been utterly obvious for all these years. Those who say: "But Nancy... I don't see PX in the sky" are attacked for "not looking hard enough".

i say so. why should i challenge Nancy. i cherish what she does and says and disagreement about something doesnt mean i should fight her to death.

"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."

what's wrong with being a "COMMUNIST NATION"?

what, in truth, is cult-minded? i'll tell you - those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs - that's cult-mind.



You dislike science because you are too stupid to understand it.



i intended to write:

"those who take academic science, the whole immense architecture of canonic approved scientific beliefs, without critical thinking - that's cult-mind."

Browbeat them. It is emotional intimidation. She could tell them to "Go drown in the poleshift" as she certainly did say to someone. People are intimidated through the fear that they may be spiritually inadequate. They may fear that they will be sent to a water world to live life as an octopus, or don't you REMEMBER that that is the fate of those who are spiritually inferior and called "STS"?

I know that Nancy said *I* was a member of that conspiracy and I know that I am NOT any such thing.

Do you REALLY believe that the world's astronomers can be controlled into denying the existence of a large planet right in the inner Solar System, and that Earth is halted in orbit?? REALLY???????

if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.

to maintain justice!

Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???




Some have suggested that the universe is made up of three primary components that essentially are the same thing in different states of constant and eternal movement transformation and synthesis.

energy ==> matter ==> CONSICOUSNESS ==> energy ==> matter ...

Your thoughts???


I cant aswer this, my knowledge is much to small to answer. I believe all conciouss beings share a universal concioussness. We are like probes by wich the universe experiences itself.

Here a good documenary on that btw, ita about quantum physics/concioussness:

[link to video.google.de]

if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.



Again your expose yourself as a cult follower ... saying STS are "better" than the usual human.

You really learnt your lessens when your country still was indoctrinated by communism, little commie ?

Yet you call yourself an "atheist"? Wouldn't it be better to call yourself "spiritual" but not "religious"???

Yet you call yourself an "atheist"? Wouldn't it be better to call yourself "spiritual" but not "religious"???


Yes, I guess thats true.

With Atheism I mean that I dont believe in a superiour being ruling the universe.

I honestly believe quantum physics will reveal that everything is concioussness/energy. And I believe even the tinyest lifeforms contain a certain degree of concioussness.

Browbeat them. It is emotional intimidation. She could tell them to "Go drown in the poleshift" as she certainly did say to someone. People are intimidated through the fear that they may be spiritually inadequate. They may fear that they will be sent to a water world to live life as an octopus, or don't you REMEMBER that that is the fate of those who are spiritually inferior and called "STS"?

I know that Nancy said *I* was a member of that conspiracy and I know that I am NOT any such thing.

Do you REALLY believe that the world's astronomers can be controlled into denying the existence of a large planet right in the inner Solar System, and that Earth is halted in orbit?? REALLY???????


if someone is spiritually immature - they are spiritually immature. it is a reality and theres no pint in "protecting" them from letting them know it.

if someone doesnt believe that there are spiritual orientations or leave alone octpus water world awaiting for them, - then why fear it? no, really?...

those STS are not "spiritually inferior", but they violate basic principle of equality. by doing so, and violently, they automatically eject themselves from such treatment. iow, we should not tolerate those who undermine principle of tolerance, for example. simple as that, instant justice, karma. if they deny equal treatment to others, them we are not only justified but supposed to deny this to THEM, to maintain justice!

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.

yes, i believe a worldwide conspiracy is possible. not a theory of coverup but a fact of coverup.

So you agree that consciousness exists at the "micro" level, and you agree that consicousness "probably" exists at the "ultra" **MACRO** level in the sense that there is a "universal" consicousness. However, I suppose you would assert that such a "universal" consciousness has no sense of "self", and therefore is quite "incapable" ordering the universe beyond the individual human's level of intelligence - and that we are the "summit" of consicousness's universal expression???

Now that's some fine character display right there.

You come across already as a person of high principles. Nancy LIEDer could learn from your example. I am sure that she still holds to the fact that her Zeta rogue planet was imaged all those years ago. She seems so unwilling to acknowledge that her rogue planet was never actually imaged by your team as she claims. Nancy even seems to get quite "hostile" and "quick to denial" when it is brought up. I may have missed it but I am sure that Ms LIEDer now declares that you are part of the cover up.

Maybe some of this applies to ZetaTalk, or any other cult for that matter.

BTW, my first post, cheers all!

WARNING SIGNS
By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.
6. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
7. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
8. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.
3. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
4. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
5. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
6. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
7. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
8. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
9. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
10. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.

You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.