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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

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10/21/2009 12:20 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Remember the Zetan response in 2007?



The Zetan Federation Denies Nancy Lieder Contact
10-3-2007

I have a message from the Zetan Federation concerning claims made by the Earth human Nancy Lieder.

"The Zetan Federation disavows and refutes all claims made by the human called Nancy Lieder. Neither the Zetan Federation, nor any citizen of Zeta, has ever contacted Nancy Lieder nor authorized her to speak on our behalf.

The Zetan Federation requests that Nancy Lieder cease all claims of being our spokesperson on planet Earth or anywhere in the cosmos.

The Zetan Federation has a strict non-interference policy as regards planet Earth. If we did engage in any Earth contact, or had a message we wanted to share with the people of planet Earth, we would not engage in a procedure involving a bio-genetic transplant of Zetan bio-material into a human brain as claimed by Nancy Lieder. Nor does the Zetan Federation engage in a genetic hybrid program anywhere in the cosmos, as Nancy Lieder has claimed.

The Zetan Federation does not perform terra forming on planet Earth. In no way does the Zetan Federation have any involvement with Earth geophysical events such as volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, and weather phenomena.

The Zetan Federation does not engage in planet Earth timeline information and predictions. Our non-interference policy prohibits all Zetans from involvement in all Earth politics, governments, religions, belief systems, science, technology, communications, and social interactions."
-----------------------------------------------------


Zetan Federation Responds To Nancy Lieder
10-7-2007

Nancy Lieder, your response to the Zetan Federation message is unacceptable. You would have these humans believe that you are the voice of the Zetans when you and the world have been advised that the Zetan Federation has never made contact with you --- until now.

By your unacceptable response to our message we do now make contact with you through this internet mode of communication. This is the one and only time that we will acknowledge you directly, and never again will you be personally addressed. The Zetans do not engage in the false utterances you insist source from us. Your egocentric behavior, in our name, must cease and our reputation restored.

The Zetan Federation absolutely objects to your misuse of our existence. We are an ancient race with ancient and honorable associations to planet Earth. You have subjected the honor of our ancient heritage to the worst sort of dishonor, by your false claims of representing us as the source of pronouncements that no Zetan would ever engage in or declare.

We refuse to be defined or defiled by you.

Earth communications have progressed to the stage where Zetan technology is able to integrate our communications through your internet. We never have, nor shall we ever, integrate our communications through the brain of a human as you have claimed we did to you. Such an idea is repugnant to us and a violation of our technology standards of morals and excellence.

When the Zetans speak, our words are not for the few or the self proclaimed elite. There is no human agent who holds court on our behalf. Our words are free to all who wish to know them. The Zetan Federation has preserved the history and heritage of planet Earth, and there will come a day when we gift this knowledge back to the descendants of our friends and kin from the long ago of Earth's past. That was our pledge then and this is our pledge now.

Know this to all, that when the Zetan Federation gifts back the knowledge of the ages to the inhabitants of planet Earth, this will be done by us in person on Earth. We will come without allegiance to any country, government, religion, or belief system. We will come to extend our friendship to a united Earth, and a pathway back to the world from whence your ancestors originated. Before this time shall come to pass, let no one on Earth claim authority over the Zetans or the knowledge of the Zetans.
 Quoting: Prof_Rabbit

Wow! That was good writing . . . very imaginative! Good Satire!
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: [email protected]"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
***ZetaMax***

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10/21/2009 01:52 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I have a law degree, and am a 9-11 Survivor, having been inside Tower One on 9-11.


Debunked already, ad nauseum, get some new material.

_absurd


You are a FAKE!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799300

A "fake" what??? I am a non-believing fence-sitter - so I guess that would make me a "fake believer" if that is that you are driving at!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
KeepingItReal

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10/21/2009 01:53 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
No, you are just a pathetic troll, Max.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 01:59 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I am a non-believing fence-sitter
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


I don't believe you are a fence-sitter either.
Returner
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10/21/2009 02:15 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Max writes (while giggling, probably):

"I am a non-believing fence-sitter"

Max, you really should stop saying that. We all know precisely what you are (one of us knows a Hell of a lot more than that, too).
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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10/21/2009 02:49 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Well you go live life through a wire while I live life in nature.
 Quoting: Free Store


yes_sir I believe Mr FrEaKy is trying to convey that he is one of them special folk......

.....yeah he's special alright!!

A wcass SPECIAL!! that is.

Last Edited by The Lone Ranger on 10/21/2009 02:51 PM
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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10/21/2009 02:55 PM
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You are a FAKE!

A "fake" what??? I am a non-believing fence-sitter - so I guess that would make me a "fake believer" if that is that you are driving at!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


They're on to you, Melfy.

I've yet to dish the dirt out on you, Melfster, and already the people are realising that above all else....***YOU ARE A FAKE***.

Your disguise is waning sockpuppet .

Jekel_Hyde
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 03:05 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I have a law degree, and am a 9-11 Survivor, having been inside Tower One on 9-11.


Debunked already, ad nauseum, get some new material.

:_absurd:


You are a FAKE!

A "fake" what??? I am a non-believing fence-sitter - so I guess that would make me a "fake believer" if that is that you are driving at!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


You are NOT who you pretend to be!
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 03:06 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Remember the Zetan response in 2007?


Know this to all, that when the Zetan Federation gifts back the knowledge of the ages to the inhabitants of planet Earth, this will be done by us in person on Earth. We will come without allegiance to any country, government, religion, or belief system. We will come to extend our friendship to a united Earth, and a pathway back to the world from whence your ancestors originated. Before this time shall come to pass, let no one on Earth claim authority over the Zetans or the knowledge of the Zetans.

Wow! That was good writing . . . very imaginative! Good Satire!
 Quoting: George B


It's more believable than Nancy's crap.
J.William Dell

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10/21/2009 03:26 PM
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A request for assistance from the astro-physical persuaded people on this thread from a terrestrial on-looker.

I would ask that someone shed some light on these questions for me by providing some knowledgable answers.
No trick questions ;o)

I'm trying to get a handle on the reasons why the planets are in their specific locations, or the general theory thereof.

We have gas giants, large planets, and small rocks in our solar system.

What factors are in play to place them where they are now?

Is the ecliptic plane and most planets relative adherence to it caused by a gravitational or magnetic force?

Hypothetically, if we were to change the size/mass of one planet (use Earth as an example), what effect could that have on its orbit and location (distance from Sun) in the solar system?

What effects could a larger planet Earth have on the other planets in this theoretical system?

Appreciate any responses.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
The Commentator

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10/21/2009 04:45 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
A request for assistance from the astro-physical persuaded people on this thread from a terrestrial on-looker.

I would ask that someone shed some light on these questions for me by providing some knowledgable answers.
No trick questions ;o)

I'm trying to get a handle on the reasons why the planets are in their specific locations, or the general theory thereof.

We have gas giants, large planets, and small rocks in our solar system.

What factors are in play to place them where they are now?

Is the ecliptic plane and most planets relative adherence to it caused by a gravitational or magnetic force?

Hypothetically, if we were to change the size/mass of one planet (use Earth as an example), what effect could that have on its orbit and location (distance from Sun) in the solar system?

What effects could a larger planet Earth have on the other planets in this theoretical system?

Appreciate any responses.

Kindest Regards
J.William Dell
 Quoting: J.William Dell



Planetary formation is a hotly debated topic. Thus far there is no generally accepted model to explain how solar system members, that is gas giants, rocky worlds and the like, get distributed. Nice question, no easy answer.
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
Returner
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10/21/2009 04:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
We'll need to study a number of other star systems with planets before we get a good idea of what shapes a planetary system.

I have an idea planets are always arranged according to some nonsense phrase, like the one we use for our own Solar System:

"My Very Educated Mother Just Sent Us Nine Pizzas"

And YES Pluto is still a damned planet.

So the first thing we need to do is meet the inhabitants of other star systems, learn their languages, and figure out what their phrases are.

Wow, that's almost worthy of a ZetaTalk entry!
KeepingItReal

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10/21/2009 04:57 PM

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
That's the difference between science and psuedoscience new age crap. When answers are not known, science admits it, theories and hypothesis are put forward, tested and debated. This is how new knowledge occurs. If something previously thought to be true is disproved, science takes the lessons learned and uses it to advance knowledge.

On the other hand, had you asked Nancy or any of the other "special" people on this forum, they would have come back with a whole lot of self important gibberish, from a "higher" source. Then when people who use their grey matter start pointing out what's wrong with the gibberish, they get branded as rigid science lovers who think they know it all. Very ironic.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 06:03 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Forteana and mainstream scienceSome skeptics and critics have frequently called Fort credulous and naïve, a charge his supporters deny strongly. Over and over again in his writing, Fort rams home a few basic points that were decades ahead of mainstream scientific acceptance, and that are frequently forgotten in discussions of the history and philosophy of science:
• Fort often notes that the boundaries between science and pseudoscience are "fuzzy": the boundary lines are not very well defined, and they might change over time.
• Fort also points out that whereas facts are objective, how facts are interpreted depends on who is doing the interpreting and in what context.
• Fort insisted that there is a strong sociological influence on what is considered "acceptable" or "damned" (see strong program in the sociology of scientific knowledge).
• Though he never used the term "magical thinking", Fort offered many arguments and observations that are similar to the concept: he argued that most (if not all) people (including scientists) are at least occasionally guilty of irrational and "non scientific" thinking.
• Fort points out the problem of underdetermination: that the same data can sometimes be explained by more than one theory.
• Similarly, writer John Michell notes that "Fort gave several humorous instances of the same experiment yielding two different results, each one gratifying the experimenter."[8] Fort noted that if controlled experiments – a pillar of the scientific method – could produce such widely varying results depending on who conducted them, then the scientific method itself might be open to doubt, or at least to a degree of scrutiny rarely brought to bear. Since Fort's death, scientists have recognized the "experimenter effect", the tendency for experiments to tend to validate given preconceptions. Robert Rosenthal has conducted pioneering research on this and related subjects.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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10/21/2009 06:36 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Forteana and mainstream scienceSome skeptics and critics have frequently called Fort credulous and naïve, a charge his supporters deny strongly. Over and over again in his writing, Fort rams home a few basic points that were decades ahead of mainstream scientific acceptance, and that are frequently forgotten in discussions of the history and philosophy of science:
• Fort often notes that the boundaries between science and pseudoscience are "fuzzy": the boundary lines are not very well defined, and they might change over time.
• Fort also points out that whereas facts are objective, how facts are interpreted depends on who is doing the interpreting and in what context.
• Fort insisted that there is a strong sociological influence on what is considered "acceptable" or "damned" (see strong program in the sociology of scientific knowledge).
• Though he never used the term "magical thinking", Fort offered many arguments and observations that are similar to the concept: he argued that most (if not all) people (including scientists) are at least occasionally guilty of irrational and "non scientific" thinking.
• Fort points out the problem of underdetermination: that the same data can sometimes be explained by more than one theory.
• Similarly, writer John Michell notes that "Fort gave several humorous instances of the same experiment yielding two different results, each one gratifying the experimenter."[8] Fort noted that if controlled experiments – a pillar of the scientific method – could produce such widely varying results depending on who conducted them, then the scientific method itself might be open to doubt, or at least to a degree of scrutiny rarely brought to bear. Since Fort's death, scientists have recognized the "experimenter effect", the tendency for experiments to tend to validate given preconceptions. Robert Rosenthal has conducted pioneering research on this and related subjects.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758858

Scientists are people too.
Hence Feynman's warning:

"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Anonymous Coward
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Scientists are people too.
Hence Feynman's warning:

"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

I totally agree. The point is science can be used to support agendas that the consumer does not understand and thus can be manipulated and can be fooled. Especially those individuals who want to believe something very hard.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Scientists are people too.
Hence Feynman's warning:

"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman

I totally agree. The point is science can be used to support agendas that the consumer does not understand and thus can be manipulated and can be fooled. Especially those individuals who want to believe something very hard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758858


That's why you should never take anyone's word and educate yourself whenever possible. That way you will be less vulnerable to predatory kOOks like Nancy.

Science itself cannot be held responsible for its misuse. It remains a method not a dogma. Science simply provides us with a set of mental tools for analysing and verifying data and theories. It has proven itself immensely and uniquely successful.
Anonymous Coward
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The theories and conclusions Fort presented often came from what he called "the orthodox conventionality of Science". On nearly every page, Fort's works have reports of odd events which were originally printed in respected mainstream newspapers or scientific journals such as Scientific American, The Times, Nature and Science. Time and again, Fort noted, that while some phenomena related in these and other sources were enthusiastically accepted and promoted by scientists, just as often, inexplicable or unusual reports were ignored, or were effectively swept under the rug. And repeatedly, Fort reclaimed such data from under the rug, and brought them out, as he wrote, "for an airing". So long as any evidence is ignored – however bizarre or unlikely the evidence might seem – Fort insisted that scientists' claims to thoroughness and objectivity were questionable.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Science itself cannot be held responsible for its misuse. It remains a method not a dogma. Science simply provides us with a set of mental tools for analysing and verifying data and theories. It has proven itself immensely and uniquely successful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799544

I disagree . . .Science has an obligation to police its misuse. Otherwise I agree with your statement.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 06:56 PM
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Science itself cannot be held responsible for its misuse. It remains a method not a dogma. Science simply provides us with a set of mental tools for analysing and verifying data and theories. It has proven itself immensely and uniquely successful.

I disagree . . .Science has an obligation to police its misuse. Otherwise I agree with your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758858


No it doesn't. Science is a METHOD. It is not a person or organization.
Anonymous Coward
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"Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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Science itself cannot be held responsible for its misuse. It remains a method not a dogma. Science simply provides us with a set of mental tools for analysing and verifying data and theories. It has proven itself immensely and uniquely successful.

I disagree . . .Science has an obligation to police its misuse. Otherwise I agree with your statement.


No it doesn't. Science is a METHOD. It is not a person or organization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799554

Science should have no ethics or morals clause?

[link to legacy.lclark.edu]

HONESTY IN SCIENCE
We live in a world where ethical dilemmas abound, and where people with good lawyers
can get away with, well, murder. Even scientists, a group of people once regarded as
beyond reproach, are being accused of data fabrication, plagiarism, and the like. This
appendix is intended to be a guide to navigating some of the ethical dilemmas you might
encounter in this course.
Data Fabrication
Anonymous Coward
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"Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799554

The data must be collected as valid observations with honesty and integrity and without bias . . . or it is worthless!
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 07:19 PM
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Teilhard and Piltdown Man

Time July 28, 1980

[link to www.clarku.edu]

In 1912, near Piltdown, England, an amatuer fossil hunter named Charles Dawson "found" the first of two skulls with a human-like cranium and an apelilke jaw. The find was hailed as the missing link between man and ape; for years Piltdown man occupied a prominent place in paleontology. Finally in 1953 he was unmasked: the remains were nothing more than a fabrication of modern human and ape bone doctored to give them the look of antiquity.
Anonymous Coward
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Hwang Woo-suk (Korean: 황우석, born 29 January 1953)[1] is a South Korean veterinarian researcher. He was a professor of theriogenology and biotechnology at Seoul National University (dismissed on March 20, 2006) who became infamous for fabricating a series of experiments, which appeared in high profile journals, in the field of stem cell research. Until November 2005, he was considered one of the pioneering experts in the field of stem cell research, best known for two articles published in the journal Science in 2004 and 2005 where he fraudulently reported to have succeeded in creating human embryonic stem cells by cloning. Both papers were later editorially retracted after they were found to contain a large amount of fabricated data. He has admitted to various charges of fraud.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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Science should have no ethics or morals clause?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758858

SCIENTISTS (and scientific organisations) should.

Science is a method, a tool. Methods don't have ethics.
A tool like a hammer. You can use it to drive in nails or to smash skulls.
If somebody smashes a skull with a hammer, HE DOESN'T GET TO BLAME THE HAMMER.
book
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 07:39 PM
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Science should have no ethics or morals clause?
SCIENTISTS (and scientific organisations) should.

Science is a method, a tool. Methods don't have ethics.
A tool like a hammer. You can use it to drive in nails or to smash skulls.
If somebody smashes a skull with a hammer, HE DOESN'T GET TO BLAME THE HAMMER.
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Correct! However, a soldier makes the moral decision for his gun and the SCIENTIST makes the moral decisions for SCIENCE through the honesty, neutrality and accuracy of his observations and methods. You cannot separate the SCIENCE from the SCIENTIST. One does not function without the other.
KeepingItReal

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10/21/2009 07:46 PM

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Science should have no ethics or morals clause?
SCIENTISTS (and scientific organisations) should.

Science is a method, a tool. Methods don't have ethics.
A tool like a hammer. You can use it to drive in nails or to smash skulls.
If somebody smashes a skull with a hammer, HE DOESN'T GET TO BLAME THE HAMMER.
book

Correct! However, a soldier makes the moral decision for his gun and the SCIENTIST makes the moral decisions for SCIENCE through the honesty, neutrality and accuracy of his observations and methods. You cannot separate the SCIENCE from the SCIENTIST. One does not function without the other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758858

You are forgetting who funds scientists in their research. The people with the cash are the ones that decide what gets funded, they have an agenda and they don't spend money to advance science. They invest so that they can justify their agenda using scientific research. They have the power to use the research any way they see fit, they even suppress it or twist the results if it is in their interest to do so because they have paid for it. This is a source of frustration for a lot of scientists, but research doesn't fund itself. You are fooling yourself if you don't thing every other profession and occupation is the same. In one way or another, we are all forced to go along with things we don't agree with, because we need to feed our families.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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In the case of Dr Albert Steinschneider, two decades and tens of millions of research dollars were lost trying to find the elusive link between infant sleep apnea, that Steinschneider said he had observed and recorded in his laboratory and claimed was a precursor of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). The cover was blown in 1994, 22 years after Steinschneider's 1972 Pediatrics paper claiming such an association,[24] when Waneta Hoyt, the mother of the patients in the paper, was arrested, indicted and convicted on 5 counts of second degree manslaughter for the smothering deaths of her five children.[25] While that in itself was bad enough, the paper, presumably written as an attempt in trying to save infants' lives, ironically was ultimately used as a defense in cases where parents were suspected in multiple deaths of their own children in cases of Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The 1972 Pediatrics' paper was cited by 404 papers in the interim and is still listed on Pubmed without comment.[26]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Science should have no ethics or morals clause?


You are forgetting who funds scientists in their research. The people with the cash are the ones that decide what gets funded, they have an agenda and they don't spend money to advance science. They invest so that they can justify their agenda using scientific research. They have the power to use the research any way they see fit, they even suppress it or twist the results if it is in their interest to do so because they have paid for it. This is a source of frustration for a lot of scientists, but research doesn't fund itself. You are fooling yourself if you don't thing every other profession and occupation is the same. In one way or another, we are all forced to go along with things we don't agree with, because we need to feed our families.
 Quoting: KeepingItReal

I totally and completely agree with everything you said above. My point is: inappropriate influence can and does affect SCIENCE and SCIENTISTS. Unfortunately, this may occur more than we wish to admit.





GLP