Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

I am content knowing that the horse named TLR hung himself with his own rope. Debunker self-destruction is truly a "thrill" to witness.

No the plural of 'anecdote' is information (or even fantasy) . . . that which is gathered many times before real data and scientific analysis can be accomplished. Almost without exception theory preceds proof.

Last Edited by George B on 06/03/2010 11:30 AM

No sense beating a dead horse . . . I will try a different approach.

Ok, I take your challenge . . . I will post the information as soon as I can. I'll see you then.

BTW, what happened to TLR? I missed something.

I didn't get your joke here, Menow. To me what you're saying IS a sexist remark. Because what you're saying is that MEN know about mechanical stuff while WOMEN don't. In reality smelling, knowing or experiencing have nothing to do with genitals.

And this wasn't your first sexist remark either. On page 573 you replied to Clare this way:



That's something only directed at women. Men don't need to hear that sort of stuff; men are not shamed because of their gender.

Clare:

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying NO planes hit the twin towers and NO plane hit the pentagon? Are you saying that ALL the witnesses who saw planes are lying or mistaken? Are you saying ALL the footage showing planes hitting the towers and flying low through the city are in some way fabricated?

There are three questions above and a simple yes or no will suffice for now, as I am simply trying to understand your position at this point.

Thanks

This is "purely" speculation on my part - but just recently the viewcount on this thread was SUBSTANTIALLY reduced by SHR - who reported that he suspected a script or utility was being used to increase the count. He said (to the effect) that this was equivalent to and in fact WAS a denial-of-service attack, even if the instigator had an inferior goal and didn't appreciate that this was in fact the "effect" of his (assuming a "he") "activities".

When Circuit Breaker decried the rather substantial reduction of the count, SHR countered that he should be THANKFUL the entire thread was not DELETED - an action he SERIOUSLY considered, but decided to back away from.

Ironically, TLR has NOT been seen since that incident, and more telling is the fact that a LOT of the "pet" smilies he used are no longer available. Like this one:



Which was his famous "dancing man".

So I "suspect" that his account was deleted, and he is currently banned from GLP.

But I not saying at all that this is the case.

Merely speculation ...

Bottom line - PLAY FAIR AND FOLLOW THE RULES.

Good for SHR!!

The Lone Stranger (now) will only be missed by the morons and selfish twerps that actually like his smilies. He's a cancer at GLP and will NOT be missed by many.

And, it is truly fitting that Circuit Breaker was crying in his corn flakes ... what a flake indeed!

Dr Postspam ... grow up already!

Indeed my friend!

FUNNY how close this widely derided prediction came to being totally TRUE!!!

So the passengers who were aboard all those 9/11 hijacked planes weren't really aboard the planes, and they've either been killed or moved into some sort of federal identity change program?

Am I understanding that assertion correctly, Clare?

Eyewitness accounts of the 757 crach into the Pentagon:

[link to 911research.wtc7.net]

There is extensive detailed information here.

The impossibility of Clare's flyover theory:

[link to 911research.wtc7.net]

More critique of Clare's flyover scenario and why it was impossible...

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

Clare please comment on the hundreds of eyewitness accounts at

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

that directly contradict your claim.

Eyewitness testamonies:

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

Wrong, Clare. Here are many eyewitnesses who all describe a PLANE. Are you claiming that they are ALL wrong in what they saw?

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

1. “I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first.”[44]

2. “Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close.”[45]

3. “I saw the plane that hit the Pentagon. It went behind some trees.”[46]

4. “[The plane] was coming down head first.”[47]

5. “We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway.”[48]

6. “It looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight.”[49]

7. “The aircraft crossed about 200 yards [should be more than 150 yards from the impact] in front of me.”[50]

8. “…in my car, sitting on a bridge, and saw the plane.”[51]

9. “I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area…I knew it was going to strike the building.”[52]

10. “I saw the plane.”[53]

11. “The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics [on the highway next to the Pentagon].”[54]

12. “They saw the plane dive down and level off… I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up.”[55]

13. “We had one guy who was standing, looking out the window [of the Pentagon] and saw the plane when it was coming in.”[56]

14. “We saw the shadow of a plane… We all said, ‘That plane is flying kind of close.’”[57]

15. “Dad, look [at] that plane!”[58]

16. “Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring.”[59]

17. “I could see the windows. I saw the entire plane.”[60]

18. “He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace.”[61]

19. “The plane approached the Pentagon.”[62]

20. “My people who did see it… described it as entering the building.”[63]

21. “(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target…the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong.”[64]

22. “I got on Interstate 395 and saw the plane come in. I didn’t see the actual impact, but 395 curves around the Pentagon, and I saw that plane coming in.”[65]

23. “I saw the plane.”[66]

24. “I was in my Jeep Cherokee, driving on Route 395 toward DC and listening to NPR. I saw the plane coming down.”[67]

25. “Fred Hey was driving by on Route 50 at that moment. “I can’t believe it! This plane is going down into the Pentagon!”[68]

26. “The plane came up I-395 also known as Shirley Hwy. (most likely used as a reference point.) The plane had been seen making a lazy pattern in the no fly zone over the White House and US Cap. Why the plane did not hit incoming traffic coming down the river from the north to Reagan Nat’l. is beyond me. Strangely, no one at the Reagan Tower noticed the aircraft. Andrews AFB radar should have also picked up the aircraft I would think. Nevertheless, the aircraft went southwest near Springfield and then veered left over Arlington and then put the nose down coming over Ft Myer.”[69]

27. “I saw it go overhead, the plane.”[70]

28. “The plane came over the top of us [over our car] and brushed the trees… and went right into the first and second floors.”[71]

29. “I saw it.”[72]

30. “What is that plane doing?” [73]

31. “Suddenly they saw the plane.”[74]

32. “I looked out the window to see an airplane.”[75]

33. “I actually pointed it out and said: ‘Look at this plane.”[76]

34. “I saw a plane coming what I thought was toward National Airport, which is very close. You see that all the time.”[77]

35. “My group (4 of us) was unaware of the happenings in New York but knew something was wrong when we saw the jet coming down the freeway…”[78]

36. “I saw it.”[79]

37. “The plane flew in front of us by about 200 ft at ground level.”[80]

38. “The plane approached low, flying ‘directly’ over him.”[81]

39. “I was right underneath the plane…I saw it.”[82]

40. “Looking up didn’t tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom.”[83]

41. “ saw a plane.”[84]

42. “[The plane] was coming straight into the wedge.”[85]

43. “I looked idly out my window to the left—and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.”[86]

44. “I looked out the window to the West just in time to see the belly of that aircraft and the tail section fly directly over my house… It was utterly sickening to see, knowing that this plane was going to crash.”[87]

45. “Wanda Ramey, a DPS master patrol officer, had had a bird’s eye view. Ramey stood at the Mall plaza booth when she saw a low-flying airplane.”[88]

46. “The plane came in at an incredibly steep angle with incredibly high speed.”[89]

47. “when out of the corner of my eye I saw the airplane.”[90]

48. “A plane flew over my house… [one mile away from the Pentagon].”[91]

49. “I had just passed the Pentagon and was near the Macy’s store in Crystal City when I noticed a plane making a sharp turn from north of the Pentagon. I had to look back at the road and then back to the plane as it sort of leveled off.”[92]

50. “Where the plane came in was really at the construction entrance…The plane’s left wing actually came in near the ground and the right wing was tilted up in the air. That right wing went directly over our trailer, so if that wing had not tilted up, it would have hit the trailer.”[93]

51. “I saw the plane not more than 200 feet over my head.”[94]

52. “[he saw] the tail of a plane.”[95]

53. “We saw the plane.”[96]

54. “The guy I was with looked up and said: ‘What the hell is that plane doing?”[97]

55. “I did see, myself a plane, about half hour ago, circling over the Capitol.”[98]

56. “I followed the plane down with my eyes.”[99]

57. “I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van.”[100]

58. “We saw a plane near the Pentagon.”[101]

59. “You don’t see planes on that side of the Pentagon, and that was my first thought. I thought, ‘What is he doing on that side of the Pentagon, It’s so strange.’ And then you could just see him descend and just keep descending lower and lower, until he was almost on top of Route 27 that runs alongside the Pentagon.”[102]

60. “I glanced up just at the point where the plane was going into the building.”[103]

61. “On the deck of his house about 1 mile away from the Pentagon and just west of I-395… I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened—that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C.”[104]

62. “He was in his car on nearby Interstate 395 when the plane hit the pentagon on Tuesday morning… ‘I was scanning the air…There wasn’t anything in the air, except for one airplane, and it looked like it was loitering over Georgetown, in a high, left-hand bank…That may have been the plane. I have never seen one on that (flight) pattern.’”[105]

63. “Just prior to the impact there were three firemen on the helipad at the Pentagon… they looked up and saw the plane coming over the Navy Annex building.”[106]

64. “About 10 minutes ago, there was a white jet circling overhead. Now, you generally don't see planes in the area over the White House. That is restricted air space. No reason to believe that this jet was there for any nefarious purposes, but the Secret Service was very concerned, pointing up at the jet in the sky.”[107]

Witnesses described the type of Plane:
“Commercial/Passenger Plane/Jetliner/Large Aircraft”
65. “There was a commercial plane coming in… ENSOR: So you believe it was a commercial airliner that was hitting the Pentagon? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes… coming down towards the side of the—of 395. And when it came down, it just missed 395 and went down below us… I did not see what kind of an airline.”[108]

66. “Engine 101 actually saw the jetliner.”[109]

67. “I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us.”[110]

68. “I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House.”[111]

69. “He saw the blur of a commercial jet… That is a big plane.”[112]

70. “Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon… I looked to the right of the train as we were coming into the station, and noticed a jet flying in real low, about a mid-sized passenger jet flying in. I know it was silver, that's the only thing I know.”[113]

71. “[Allen Cleveland’s Brother] said that he saw a jetliner.”[114]

72. “As we walked away, there were people on the road, because we were very close to the exit, and they were saying ‘Oh my god, did you see that? It was an airplane! It was an airplane!’ They kept saying it was a ‘big airplane.’”[115]

73. “He saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon.”[116]

74. “I looked back and saw a jet airliner.”[117]

75. “We were watching the airport through binoculars…The plane was a two-engine turbo prop that flew up the river from National…[118] then it turned back to the Pentagon.”[119]

76. “Kat Gaines, heading south on Route 110, approached the parking lots, saw a low-flying jetliner”[120]

77. “I saw a large airliner sized plane—roughly a 767 size airliner.”[121]

78. “I saw a plane going down—big plane, commercial airliner type going down full speed We were driving down from Columbia pike and it just flew right over us, full speed, But it was a big plane, maybe a 737—my husband said 747, but I’m not positive, I don’t know for sure. But it was big, definitely the kind of plane when you get on when you want to fly to L.A. or wherever.”[122]

79. “I saw this very, very large passenger jet.”[123]

80. “[Watching from an 8th floor high-rise:] At first, we thought it was the jets that sometimes fly overhead. However, it appeared to be a small commercial aircraft…”[124]

81. “Aydan Kizildrgli, saw the jetliner bank slightly.”[125]

82. “I looked in the rearview mirror to check the traffic and saw only a plane, flying very low. I followed it in my left outside mirror. I braked, looked out my left window and saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon…The aircraft, so close to the ground, was banked skillfully to the right, leveled off perpendicular to the Pentagon’s southwest side, then went full throttle directly toward the building.”[126]

83. “Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft.”[127]

84. “I looked over and saw this big silver plane.”[128]

85. “Alfred S. Regnery, saw (…) a jetliner…”

86. “His brother in-law also saw a jetliner.”[129]

87. “I was on the street driving, and then the plane went over the top of my car… It was a big aircraft just on its course.”[130]

88. “Walking back to his motorcycle he saw a commercial airliner coming from the direction of Henderson Hall the Marine Corps headquarters.”[131]

89. “Philip Sheuerman, exiting the freeway, turning into the parking lot, of the Pentagon saw a passenger plane.”[132]

90. “It was headed straight for the building. It made no sense. (…) A huge jet.”[133]

91. “I saw the jet just before it crashed. Something big and silver, nose down… Most not knowing what exactly was happening. I had more fear because I saw what happened.”[134]

92. “[He saw] a white 737 twin-engine plane with multicolored trim fly 50 feet over I-395 in a straight line.”[135]

93. “[he saw] what looked like a 747… I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van.”[136]

94. “he saw a…commercial airliner…There was no reason for a plane to come in that low, that fast” …The plane took ‘a flight path straight up 395.’”[137]

95. “I saw the plane hit the building on 9/11. It was a plane. It was big.”[138]

96. “I saw the tail of a large airliner… I saw a jumbo tail go by me along Route 395. It was like the rear end of the fuselage was riding on 395. I just saw the tail go whoosh right past me.”[139]

97. “I watched this—it looked like a commuter plane, twin-engine, come down from the south real low…it just dipped down and came down right over 395.”[140]

98. “It was an airliner coming straight up Columbia Pike… It was huge! It was silver. It was low—unbelievable! I could see the cockpit.”[141]

99. “As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner… screamed overhead.”[142]

100. “It was a commercial sized airliner. I’m not sure how big it was. A gentleman just said that he was sitting on 95—the plane flew very low over his car… and blew his windows out of the vehicle and he’s on interstate 395.”[143]

101. “It was a good size jet aircraft.”[144]

“American Airlines”
102. “It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly… it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight.”[145]

103. “There was a commercial airliner that said American airlines over the side of it.”[146]

104. “He saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner… we saw a plane coming toward us… It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. … At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level…”[147]

105. “I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on.[148] The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station…[149] about 4-5 car lengths in front of me… It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes.”[150]

106. “The plane flew over… He said he looked at it and saw American Airline insignia.”[151]

107. “About two minutes later one of my guys pointed to an American airlines airplane.”[152]

108. “I talked to a number of average people in route who said they saw the plane hovering over the Washington Mall Area at an altitude lower that the height of the Washington Monument…they reported to him they could clearly see the markings of an American airlines airliner.”[153]

109. “I saw this large American airlines passenger jet…”There was no doubt in my mind what I was watching. Not for a second. It was accelerating,”[154]

110. “He saw an American airlines jet swooping in, its wings wobbly, looking like it was going to slam right into the Pentagon.”[155]

111. “I saw a very low-flying American airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating.”[156]

112. “Father Stephen McGraw was driving…when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American airlines Flight 77…McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon…”[157]

113. “I looked out to the front and saw, coming straight down the road at us, a huge jet plane clearly with American airlines written on it, and it looked like it was coming in to hit us.”[158]

114. “The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB)[159]. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon… The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled… As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction.”[160]

115. “A silver, twin-engine American airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex… The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by…”[161]

116. “Then I looked up to my left and saw an American airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet.”[162]

117. “I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American airlines jet…It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I’d just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, that’s not going to make it to National Airport.”[163]

118. “It was an American airlines plane that came in and hit the Pentagon. I believe it was a 737—I could be mistaken, it might have been a 707—but it was definitely a commercial plane. I saw the plane coming down—it actually came up I-395 and it went over the rise and came in front of a bridge in which I was sitting [in traffic].”[164]

119. “He saw the airliner in the cloudless September sky American airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon… The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze. ‘I knew I was dead’ …He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away… I dove towards the ground and watched this great big engine from this beautiful airplane just vaporize… The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart.”[165]

120. “I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the ‘American airlines’ logo on the tail as it headed towards the building… I clearly saw the “AA” logo with the eagle in the middle…I don’t really remember the engine configuration, but it did have those turbine engines on the wing… It was definitely an American airlines jet… There is no doubt about that… When I got to work I checked it out.”[166]

121. “On my left, right above me—a little over. I see an American airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the tail… I could see the windows of the plane. I could see every detail of the plane. In my head I have ingrained forever this image of every detail of that plane. It was a silver plane, American airlines plane, and I recognized it immediately as a passenger plane.”[167]

122. “Then he caught the glint of silver out of the corner of his eye. He looked up to see a passenger plane with the trademark stainless-steel fuselage and stripes of American airlines… Time seemed to slip into slow motion as he watched the plane cross over Route 395, tip its left wing as it passed the Navy annex.”[168]

123. “On my way to work Sept. 11, I saw an American airlines jet come overhead… and, turning to look, saw my driver’s side window filled with the fuselage of the doomed airliner…I could see the passenger windows glide by. The plane looked as if it were coming in for a landing.”[169]

124. “Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car.”[170]

125. “I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American airlines jet, coming… I looked up and saw the underbelly of the jet as it gracefully banked… I saw a big silver plane and those double A’s… I knew it was an American Airlines passenger jet. I watched as it continued to dip from the sky, diving towards the Pentagon. There are some trees that are adjacent to 27 the road I was stuck on, so the jet went out of sight momentarily. Then I picked it up… I was surprised at how graceful and slow the banking of the jet appeared to be, and how quickly it accelerated after it had lined up the Pentagon.”[171]

126. “Her brother… of Virginia Beach, spotted the planes first…the American airlines jet.”[172]

127. “I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine plane.”[173]

128. “No doubt about it, it was an American Airlines.”[174]

129. “Motor 14, it was an American airlines plane, uh, headed eastbound over the Pike, possibly toward the Pentagon.” [Radio transmission tape released by the Arlington Police Department].”[175]

Maybe what all those witnesses saw was actually a large hawk which had been spray-painted silver and was flying at 400 MPH due to a steady El Nino tailwind.

Yeah. Hawk. Maybe an osprey. But certainly a raptor of some sort.

Mystery solved.

I’ve added Returner’s question to the three I previously introduced. Together we have the four following questions:

1) Are you saying NO planes hit the twin towers and NO plane hit the pentagon?

2) Are you saying that ALL the witnesses who saw planes are lying or mistaken?

3) Are you saying ALL the footage showing planes hitting the towers and flying low through the city are in some way fabricated?

4) So the passengers who were aboard all those 9/11 hijacked planes weren't really aboard the planes, and they've either been killed or moved into some sort of federal identity change program?

It is my current understanding that your answer to the above four questions is “YES” to all of them. Is this correct?

Witnesses who saw the PLANE hit the lamp poles, which Clare claims didn't happen:

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

1. “It was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down.”[387]

2. “He said the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire.”[388]

3. “Penny Elgas stopped as she saw a passenger jet descend, clip a light pole near her.”[389]

4. “The plane approached the Pentagon… clipping a light pole, a car antenna… It clipped a couple of light poles on the way in.”[390]

5. “Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts.”[391]

6. “[she saw] a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles.”[392]

7. “It hit some lampposts on the way in.”[393]

8. “[the [plane flew] over Ft Myer picking off trees and light poles near the helicopter pad next to building.”[394]

9. “[he watched the plane clip] the antenna of the vehicle immediately behind him. It also struck three light poles between him and the building.”[395]

10. “The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car.”[396]

11. “I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles.”[397]

12. “As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110.”[398]

13. “The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me.”[399]

14. “Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass.”[400]

15. “On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner’s wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away.”

16. “I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.”[401]

17. “It knocked over a few light poles in its way…”[402]

18. “[It] struck a light pole…The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle.”[403]

19. “There were light poles down.”[404]

20. “It turned and came around in front of the vehicle and it clipped one of these light poles…”[405]

21. “The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, knocking over light poles.”[406]

22. “I saw it clip a light pole.”[407]

Eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon, which Clare claims didn't happen:

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

1. “I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11… [It] slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon.”[414]

2. “I saw this plane right outside my window… Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon… It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon).” [415]

3. “It was coming down head first,” he said. “And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking.”[416]

4. “I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing…”[417]

5. “And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking.”[418]

6. “[The plane] impacted the side of the building.”[419]

7. “ saw the plane hit the Pentagon.”[420]

8. “Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building.”[421]

9. “This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it.”[422]

10. “I saw the plane hit and the fireball and explosion at the Pentagon.”[423]

11. “He realized he had a front-row seat to history, as the plane plowed into the Pentagon.”[424]

12. “I thought, ‘There’s no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,’ “Before he could process that thought, he saw “a huge mushroom cloud.”[425]

13. “He was in front of one of the blast-resistant windows [inside of the Pentagon as he saw the plane coming in to crash]…”[426]

14. “[The plane] nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring.”[427]

15. “[he saw the plane] strike the building. ‘It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion,’ he said later Tuesday. ‘I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running.’”[428]

16. “This plane was going to slam into the Pentagon. I steeled myself for the explosion.”[429]

17. “The airliner crashed into the Pentagon and exploded.”[430]

18. “He saw the plane approach and slam into the west side of the structure… it crashed into the building and burst into flames.”[431]

19. “The plane approached the Pentagon… slicing into the building, said Lee Evey.”[432]

20. “The plane hit the building.”[433]

21. “We thought it had been waved off and then it hit the building.”[434]

22. “When [the plane] made impact with the Pentagon initially he saw smoke, then flames.”[435]

23. “It seemed like [the plane] made impact just before the wedge.”[436]

24. “He impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo[copter], tower.”[437]

25. “What instantly followed was a large yellow fireball accompanied by an extremely bass sounding, deep thunderous boom.”[438]

26. “This plane is going down into the Pentagon!”[439]

27. “By the time I looked up, the plane was moving so fast all I saw was an explosion.”[440]

28. “The crash was exceptionally loud… It shook the building and knocked people down who were closer to the point of impact.”[441]

29. “I [saw] an airplane descend into the side of the Pentagon.”[442]

30. “[He saw the plane] strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation’s military.”[443]

31. “He watched as the plane plowed into the Pentagon.”[444]

32. “[We] watched it crash.”[445]

33. “I turned my head to the right and saw it crash into the Pentagon about 200 yards away.”[446]

34. “‘There was a big noise when it hit the building,’ said Oscar Martinez, who witnessed the attack.”[447]

35. “My first thought was just ‘No, no, no, no,’ because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash.”[448]

36. “I saw it crash into the building…My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing.”[449]

37. “I saw…this big silver plane run into the side of the Pentagon.”[450]

38. “The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground-shaking ‘whoomp’ as it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon.”[451]

39. “I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass.”[452]

40. “[He] saw a plane crash into the building.”[453]

41. “I saw it crash.”[454]

42. “it was an American airlines plane that came in and hit the Pentagon.”[455]

43. “I knew it was about to crash.”[456]

44. “The impact created a huge yellow and orange fireball, he added.”[457]

45. “I am sorry to rain on your parade, but I saw the plane hit the building. It did not hit the ground first… It did not hit the roof first… and yes, it did impact the Pentagon… There was none of this hitting-the-ground first crap I keep hearing…”[458]

46. “The Pentagon is about a mile and half distant in the center of the tableau. I was looking directly at it when the aircraft struck.”[459]

47. “I saw the airplane” a split second before it struck.”[460]

48. “I looked back at the road, and when I turned to look again, I felt and heard a terrible explosion. I looked back and saw flames shooting up and smoke starting to climb into the sky.”[461]

49. “[He saw the plane] seconds before it exploded into the building.”[462]

50. “[the plane was] aimed like a dart straight into it.”[463]

51. “The plane hit the Pentagon.”[464]

52. “I saw it hit the building.”[465]

53. “The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. My first thought was he’s not going to make it across the river to National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction.”[466]

54. “[he saw it] fly 50 feet over I-395 in a straight line, striking the side of the Pentagon.”[467]

55. “[it] plowed into the south side of the Pentagon.”[468]

56. “And then he just slammed into the Pentagon.”[469]

57. “I saw an American airlines jet come overhead and slam into the Pentagon.”[470]

58. “[the plane flew] fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon.”[471]

59. “It added power on its way in…The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.”[472]

60. “A few minutes later, Vaughn witnessed the craft’s impact.”[473]

61. “Wallace hadn’t gotten far when the plane hit. ‘I hadn’t even reached the back of the van when I felt the fireball. It slammed into the building just a couple hundred feet from him… Wallace switched on the truck’s radio. We have had a commercial carrier crash into the west side of the Pentagon at the heliport, Washington Boulevard side.”[474]

62. “They watched the jet approach and slam into the Pentagon.”[475]

63. “It hit the Pentagon.”[476]

64. “[I saw the plane] crash right into the Pentagon.”[477]

65. “The only intelligent thought that came into my head was, ‘Oh my God, they hit the pentagon.’”[478]

66. “They turned and ran, and at the point of impact were partially shielded by their fire truck from the flying debris of shrapnel and flames.”[479]

67. “It slammed right into the building.”[480]

68. “[I saw the plane] keep coming and then slam into the front of the building.”[481]

69. “Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon, sir.”[482]


“The plane ‘disappeared’ into the Pentagon”
70. “[The plane] came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon.”[483]

71. “The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building.”[484]

72. “Engine 101… saw the airliner plow into the northwest side of the Pentagon. The radio crackled, ‘Engine 101—emergency traffic, a plane has gone down into the Pentagon.’”[485]

73. “I just watched it hit the building. It exploded… I could actually hear the metal going through the building.”[486]

74. “I saw it fly right into the Pentagon… ‘It just was amazingly precise… It completely disappeared into the Pentagon.”[487]

75. The plane seemed to be floating as if it were a paper glider and I watched in horror as it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. [Note: this eyewitness claims he watched everything in ‘slow motion’ due to ‘adrenaline’]. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again—only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon…… I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building”[488]

76. “The next thing we saw, the airplane crashed into the Pentagon… [It] sucked in the airplane.”[489]

77. “My people who did see it enter the building described it as entering the building and then there being flames coming out immediately afterwards.”[490]

78. “[It went] inside the side of the Pentagon. Obviously, it was going in the Pentagon purposefully. I told my husband ‘he’s going into the Pentagon.’ We heard the direct hit—huge crash, saw this fireball, flame and smoke.” Reporter: ‘so you actually saw the plane impact the side of the building?’ [Isabel:] “Yes I did.”[491]

79. “I cannot understand how that plane hit where it did giving the direction the aircraft was taking at the time. As most know, the Pentagon lies at the bottom of two hills from the west with the east side being next to the river at 14th street bridge… The wings came off as if it went through an arch way leaving a hole in the side of the building it seems a little larger than the wide body of the aircraft. The entry point was so clean that the roof (shown in news photo) fell in on the wreckage.”[492]

80. “I saw it hit the pentagon. It happened so fast… it was in the air one moment and in the building the next…”[493]

81. “It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere… It was very sort of surreal.”[494]

82. “The plane vanished, absorbed by the building, and there was a slight pause. Then a huge fireball rose into the sky.”[495]

83. “The plane came in hard and level and was flown full throttle into the building, dead center mass, Maj. Leibner said. “The plane completely entered the building… The plane went into the building like a toy into a birthday cake…The aircraft went in between the second and third floors.”[496]

84. “I think I actually heard it accelerate—and then it disappeared and a cloud of smoke started billowing.”[497]

85. “It hit the pentagon. It happened so fast… it was in the air one moment and in the building the next… I still have a hard time believing it, but every time I look out the window, it seems to be more real than it did the time before.”[498]

86. “A groundskeeper who watched in horror as the plane crashed into the Pentagon… The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.”[499]

87. “We watched it go in. It struck the Pentagon, and there was no indication whatever that it was doing anything other than performing a direct attack on that building.”[500]

88. “The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon… the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building.”[501]

89. “The hijacked jet slammed into the Pentagon at a ferocious speed. But the Pentagon’s wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball. The people who built that wall should be proud. Its ability to withstand the initial impact of the jet probably saved thousands of lives.”[502]

90. “He also recalled seeing the tail of the plane as it entered the building, followed by a fireball that erupted upon the plane’s impact.”[503]

91. “The nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon. Still gripping the wheel, I could feel both the car and my heart jolt at the moment of impact. An instant inferno blazed about 125 yards from me. The plane, the wall and the victims disappeared under coal-black smoke, three-storey tall flames and intense heat.”[504]

92. “[It] headed for the Pentagon “at a frightening rate… just slicing into that building…”Then this thing just became part of the Pentagon… he saw the Pentagon “envelope” the plane.”[505]

93. “It was pretty horrible… he said of the noiseless images he carries inside him, of the jet vanishing in a cloud of smoke and dust… the memory starts to come back when he hears a particularly low-flying airliner heading into nearby Reagan National Airport.”[506]

94. “[It] crashed into the west side of the building…It happened so fast. One second I saw the plane and next it was gone.” Recalling those moments again, Ramey said it appeared the building sucked the plane up inside.”[507]

95. “It was headed straight for the building. It made no sense… A huge jet. Then it was gone. A massive hole in the side of the Pentagon gushed smoke. ‘Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts?’ That's the conversation I had with myself on the way to work… There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building.”[508]

96. “[it veered] sharply and then slice into the Pentagon… [he] watched the plane slide silently into the Pentagon ‘like a car entering a garage’ [note: witness was far from Pentagon causing a delay before the explosion could be heard].”[509]

97. “I glanced up just at the point where the plane was going into the building…I saw an indentation in the building and then it was just blown-up up—red, everything red.”[510]

98. “It was an American airlines jet. And I watched it go into the building. I saw the big ‘AA’ on the side…”[511]

99. “[The plane went] into the Pentagon.”[512]

100. “It ploughed right into the Pentagon.”[513]

Debris of the plane Clare claims didn't exist:

[link to arabesque911.blogspot.com]

1. “There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down… I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car.”[534]

2. “A fireball [exploded] into the air and scattering debris—including a tire rim suspected of belonging to the airplane - past his car.”[535]

3. “Penny Elgas built a patriotic box to preserve this piece of American Airlines Flight 77, the plane that crashed into the Pentagon… driving on a highway adjacent to the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, Penny Elgas stopped as she saw a passenger jet descend, clip a light pole near her, and then crash into the Pentagon. Arriving home, Elgas found this plane fragment in the back seat of her car (she theorizes that it dropped through the open sunroof). Feeling that it was her patriotic duty to preserve the fragment as a relic, she crafted a special box and lined it with red, white, and blue material.”[536]

4. “[Holding up a piece of debris during the interview:] It just landed by the car.”[537]

5. “Sitting only 300 meters away from the carnage… I saw little bits of silver falling from the sky.”[538]

6. “Then debris began falling over the cars.”[539]

7. “Bits of metal and concrete drifting down like confetti… pieces were flying out everywhere.”[540]

8. “[I saw] what looked like white confetti raining down everywhere.” He said it soon became apparent “that the ‘confetti’ was little bits of airplane, falling down after being flung high into the bright, blue sky.”[541]

9. “It looks like [a piece of] insulation—I was just standing here watching and all sorts of paper and debris… and insulation… [was] just flying down and landing on us over here… it was just amazing.”[542]

10. “You saw this debris go up in the air. I am watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, Oh my God, there is debris coming toward me! So my reaction was, I ducked into my passenger seat and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete bouncing off my car. And the next thing you know, I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine. But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through (the drivers) rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it… Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point and there was this huge piece of something—I mean it was big, it looked like a piece of an engine or something—in the road. And there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it… I got off an off-ramp beside the Pentagon and parked my car in the grass and started taking pictures. The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I could [see] this huge piece of a wheel on fire.”[543]

11. “The van protected him against burning metal that was flying around… There was debris falling down everywhere… Hot slices of aluminum were everywhere.”[544]

12. “Cars traveling nearby were…showered with rocks and other debris. Among the trash littering the road was a scorched green oxygen tank marked ‘Cabin air. Airline use.’ When the debris shower stopped, people began getting out of their cars.”[545]

“Pieces of aircraft debris”
1. “By afternoon, the investigation was underway. At one point, a column of 50 FBI officers walked shoulder-to-shoulder across the south grounds of the Pentagon, picking up debris and stuffing it into brown bags. The lawn was scattered with chunks of the airplane, some up to four feet across.”[546]

2. “The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn’t realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell´s work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal.”[547]

3. “She saw remnants of the airplane… There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane…It smelled like it was still burning.”[548]

4. “The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter ‘A,’ another with a ‘C’… This was a jet.”[549]

5. “He saw pieces of what appeared to be small aircraft on the ground.”[550]

6. “walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, you could see pieces of the plane.”[551]

7. “The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific.”[552]

8. “The plane peeled back as it entered, leaving pieces of the front of the plane near the outside of the building and pieces from the rear of the aircraft farther inside… There’s considerable evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. It’s just not very visible…The wing actually clipped that generator, and portions of it broke off… There are other parts of the plane that are scattered about outside the building. None of those parts are very large, however. You don’t see big pieces of the airplane sitting there extending up into the air. But there are many small pieces. And the few larger pieces there look like they are veins out of the aircraft engine. They’re circular.”[553]

9. “…I ran down the hill to the site and arrived there approximately 10 minutes after the explosion. I saw the piece that was near the heliport pad…I was able to get in close and make that image within fifteen minutes of the explosion because security had yet to shut off the area… That was the only piece of wreckage of any SIZE that I saw, but was by no means the ONLY piece… As I stepped onto the highway next to the triage area, I knelt down to tie my shoe and all over the highway were small pieces of aircraft skin, none bigger than a half-dollar. Anyone familiar with aircraft has seen the greenish primer paint that covers many interior metal surfaces—that is what these shards were covered with.”[554]

10. “There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.”[555]

11. ““You say you saw the nose gear of the plane inside of the Pentagon?” [John:] “They organized rescue teams and we all went in to see what we could do to help. I was working in an area where between the two rings [was] a large 10-diameter hole… burst through and there was nose gear on the deck.”[556]

12. “Reporter: ‘I’ve seen debris 20 feet from where we’re standing—have you seen debris also?’ Witness: Yes… it just seemed like parts of the landing carriage or possibly the engines.”[557]

13. “One of the aircraft’s engines somehow ricocheted out of the building and arched into the Pentagon’s mall parking area between the main building and the new loading dock facility”[558]

14. “You ask were the debris is… well it was in the building… I saw it everywhere… Have you ever seen photos of other aircraft accident photos…? There usually isn’t huge amounts of debris left…[559] how much did you see from the WTC…?”[560]

15. “I saw the remains of the engines in the North parking lot of the Pentagon as well as melted aluminum and other debris left from the aircraft.”[561]

16. “Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point and there was this huge piece of something - I mean it was big, it looked like a piece of an engine or something - in the road. And there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it…I could [see] this huge piece of a wheel.”[562]

17. “I saw the remains of the engines in the North parking lot of the Pentagon as well as melted aluminum and other debris left from the aircraft.”[563]

18. “I could see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building, very small pieces of the plane on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three feet long, it was silver and had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass. It appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane… and as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you can pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around.”[564]

19. “Traffic [was] moving again, which was now crunching over twisted metal Sucherman guessed was the skin of the plane… There was what appeared to be the outside covering of the jet strewn about.”[565]

20. “FBI evidence teams combing the area of impact along the building’s perimeter found parts of the fuselage from the Boeing 757, said Michael Tamillow, a battalion chief… for the Fairfax County, Virginia, Fire department. No large pieces apparently survived.”[566]

21. “A piece of twisted aircraft fuselage lay nearby.”[567]

22. “As I got out of the car and made my way towards the Pentagon I saw pieces of wreckage on the ground. Your natural instinct is to reach down and pick up the pieces and look at them. But I decided against it, because I knew that the wreckage was evidence… I didn’t see a significant amount of debris. I just remember two things about this. One was the piece of wreckage I described earlier and the instinct to pick it up. Then I remember at some point later in the morning seeing a guy holding a piece of wreckage next to his head with the Pentagon in the background smiling and having his picture taken. I can’t describe for you the rage I felt. I unleashed on the guy and told him that he had no business doing what he was doing and that this was evidence and he should have just left it where he found it.”[568]

23. “There are parts all over the place, they are all smaller than a US nickle because of the force of the crash.”[569]

24. “At one point, a column of 50 FBI officers walked shoulder-to-shoulder across the south grounds of the Pentagon, picking up debris and stuffing it into brown bags. The lawn was scattered with chunks of the airplane, some up to four feet across.”[570]

25. “There [are] parts of debris of [the] airplane scattered along the road here.”[571]

26. “She went inside the Pentagon crash site and saw parts of the plane that she recognized to be an American Airlines Boeing 757 that she was familiar with from her years of flying. She recognized part of a tail section bearing the A/A logo.”[572]

27. “She could not speak, but pointed to the far side of her car. He went around the other side of the car and saw that parts of the passenger side had been sheared off and that there was a piece of a plane’s landing gear on the ground nearby.”[573]

Jet fuel which Clare claims didn't exist:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

1. “The best, cutting edge burn doctor in the U.S. The doctor told him that had he not gone to Georgetown first, he probably would not have survived because of the jet fuel in his lungs.”[645]

2. “Once we did get inside, we were able to see the destruction for ourselves. It was extensive on the interior because of the inertia of the fire and fuel once the jet entered beyond the outer ring. The skin of the building doesn’t tell you squat about the damage.”[646]

3. “Jet fuel was on him and it irritated his eyes, but he didn't get burned.”[647]

4. “Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing.”[648]

5. “Fires from the plane’s 20,000 gallons of fuel melted windows into pools of liquid glass.”[649]

6. “Now fires were burning closer as deposits of jet fuel ignited. “You could hear them lighting off,” Henson said. “They would go ‘poof,’ kind of like when you light a furnace. You could hear these getting closer.”[650]

7. “Will Jarvis… knows what aviation fuel smells like. That smell was his only clue that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon.”[651]

8. “The first thing you smell is the burning. And then you can smell the aviation fuel.”[652]

9. “The firemen were appreciative, as the heat inside the building generated from the 8,500 gallons of jet fuel was, in their words, ‘unbelievable.’ It was reported that at least three of the fireman had to be given IV fluids due to the extreme heat.”[653]

10. “After the initial inferno was knocked down on Sept. 11, firefighters contended with flames and hot spots at the Pentagon, fed by jet fuel and mountains of rubble. ‘It’s just stubborn, very difficult to get to and very difficult to extinguish.’”[654]

11. “Then he smelled jet fuel and smoke. The putrid odor was seeping into the closet.” It was this odor that I can’t describe, but one that I’ll never forget, that’s for sure…”[655]

12. “I ran down the hallway and there was smoke everywhere. You could smell the jet fuel, it was unbearable.”[656]

13. “There was a hole in the building, and you could smell it in the air. It’s a beautiful day, but you can smell the burning concrete and burning jet fuel.”[657]

14. “As soon as Mr. Slater stepped outside, he saw and smelled something uncomfortably familiar. “I saw a mass of oily smoke and thought of the oil fields of Kuwait.”[658]

15. “His glasses remained on his face. They were smeared with something—unburned jet fuel, which Yates mistook for blood.”[659]

Now, Clare, with all of this eyewitness testamony, are you STILL claiming the there was no plane?

They always try to silence what they don't like!

In this case it's THE TRUTH!

Sore LOSER!!!!!!!

ZetaTalk R.I.P.

And 'SHR', if you look it up, is a friend of Nancy's, so it seems Nancy just didn't like how POPULAR this thread was, so got it 'knobbled'!

It's pretty obvious, since Anti-ZetaTalk has ALWAYS been immeasurably MORE POPULAR than Nancy's BULLSHIT!

But then GLP has always favoured the kOOks. Let's face it, they need all the help they can get!

Clare's "flyover theory":

[link to 911research.wtc7.net]

Conclusion
The Pentagon 'flyover theory' is the central premise of The PentaCon, despite the fact neither CIT nor any of its supporters has provided a detailed account of how the "magic trick" could have been accomplished. That theory isn't even remotely plausible when one considers the number of observers who would have had a clear view of the purported overflight, even if the maneuver were engineered to be as inconspicuous as possible. Given the topography of the Pentagon's immediate surroundings, with its vast parking lots, highways and access roads of at least six lanes on each of its sides, and highrise buildings starting 300 feet to the south, such an event would have been witnessed by hundreds at least, as an unmistakable sight of a commercial jetliner leaving a huge explosion, as if it had bombed the building. The thunderous sound of the explosion would have guaranteed that most of the people in a position to see the event would have turned their heads to see the explosion and the plane in close proximity. The same witnesses would have been riveted to the action as the plane departed from the scene, whether it made a spectacular banking turn to land at National Airport, or made an equally spectacular climb away from the Pentagon over the Potomac.

Had that happened, nothing could have silenced the hundreds of diverse witnesses who saw something so unmistakable and so utterly irreconcilable with the official story that the silver jetliner had hit the Pentagon. Had that happened, CIT would have more to work with than a few witnesses who recalled seeing the jetliner flying to the north instead of the south of the Citgo station.

This thread will remain a long-term testament to the FAILURE of ZetaTalk on GLP!

It has also never been explained by the "flyover" believers why the conspiritors would have taken such a chance of being seen and exposed in broad daylight right next to six lane highways with backed up traffic jams and thousands of people watching...especially with everyone on the lookout after the news of the previous event in NYC that morning.