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It's not about sides. It's about factual information. How the fuck did they find the target buildings? I really don't get it.

when I realized that most of the posters were dumber than 8 year old cub scouts....

thats when I realized that anything they said could be easily understood by an eight year old- hence proving that most of them had sub eight year old intellects...

If I remember the reports correctly, the hijackers had flight training but the majority of it was for controlling the plane in flight and much less on landing. The instructors had questioned that these guys really only expressed interest in FLYING the planes, but not landing them. They could have learned how to program the autopilot for a destination and then took over at the last minute.

So again with the idea that they had visual contact with the target buildings when they took over the planes?

The NE US is a crowded place. I'm going from the perspective of do *I* think *I* could find my way to the WTC or Pentagon if turned loose in an aircraft miles from those locations? I doubt it. I suppose they had more planning than that implies, but still... things get pretty chaotic during a hijacking, I would imagine.

as an experiment- I tried to find the pentagon on google maps, using nothing more than washington as a starting point- it took me less than 45 seconds to find the pentagon in all of washington state

pictures, maps- I dare say that I could now find it inside of a couple of minutes and I havent even been outside of Oz .....

Sorry? I'm just going with a non-educated question about something I don't understand.

So maybe it was far easier than I imagined. Just wondering. I guess those targets were fairly outstanding once you find the general area.

it's actually quite funny in a sad way
I can acurately get my position down to a few metres anywhere on earth , given a map of the general (standard 1:11000 geo map) area and a compass and a look around

I can even tell my position on earth to a few dozen miles with nothing more than a watch, a string, two sticks and a magnet

with a cd and some lego and some shiny stuff- down to a few miles (or kilometres LOL) or less

menow

urban areas (esp from the air ) are way too easy- I could spot my old suburb 45 minutes from landing just from the look of the area into Sydney
I get the feeling that many of these `bunkers' haven't even flown in a plane at all

I often fly interstate- and I love both the area you can see at once- and the detail you can see

I often look down as I fly out of my home town and look at a 1/2hr drive road from town to town- and yet I can see details down to a car driving down that road- and if its a 4 door or a ute even!!

According to our 737 Instructor pilot . . . almost impossible. Are you a pilot or instructor pilot with thousands of flight hours in a high tech multi-engine aircraft?

Exerpts from:

[link to www.historycommons.org]

Having finished their flight training at Huffman Aviation and passed their commercial pilot license tests (see August 14-December 19, 2000), Mohamed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi spend December 29 and 30 at the SimCenter flight school at Opa-Locka Airport, near Miami. Saying they want to join an Egyptian airline and need experience in a large plane, they each pay $1,500 in cash and spend six hours, split over the two days, training in the school’s Boeing 727 simulator. Henry George, the school’s owner who trains them, describes their training as a “mini, mini introduction,” and they spend most of their time practicing maneuvers and turns. George later describes Atta and Alshehhi as “average pilots,” and says they are “quite ordinary.


However, “if the hijackers took over the controls at the last moment, that would indicate a minimum of 767-757 training"


The St. Petersburg Times reports that Atta and Alshehhi “would rent a plane from Huffman and be gone for days at a time, Pursell said. They could fly to 20 airports across the state and never be noticed.”


Nawaf Alhazmi purchases a World aeronautical chart covering the northeastern United States from a store in Phoenix, Arizona. In addition, he purchases a National Geographic road atlas, a Unique Media map of the United States, and a Unique Media map of New York City. He also purchases flight deck videos around this time (see November 5, 2000-June 20, 2001


Hani Hanjour rents an aircraft from Caldwell Flight Academy in New Jersey and flies to Montgomery Airpark in Maryland. The route he takes means that he flies near to Washington. He is accompanied by another man the 9/11 Commission will suggest is Nawaf Alhazmi, whose credit card is used to pay for the aircraft rental, as well as fuel in Maryland.


On November 25, 2007, the London Times publishes an article about Luai Sakra, an al-Qaeda leader imprisoned in Turkey who allegedly was also a CIA informant before 9/11 (see September 10, 2001). The Times reports, “According to Sakra, [9/11 hijacker] Nawaf Alhazmi was a veteran operative who went on to pilot the plane that hit the Pentagon [Flight 77]. Although this is at odds with the official account, which says the plane was flown by another hijacker, it is plausible and might answer one of the mysteries of 9/11,” namely, why the FBI claims Hani Hanjour was the pilot of that plane, when many reports suggest Hanjour was a bad pilot. [London Times, 11/25/2007] Although none of the official accounts such as the 9/11 Commission report claim that Alhazmi was a pilot, there is considerable evidence to suggest that he was:
In December 1999, Alhazmi was taught how to use a computer flight simulator program while in an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan (see Early December 1999).
On April 4, 2000, Alhazmi took one day’s worth of flying lessons, and his instructor later claims he did quite well and was already almost capable of taking off and landing on his own (see April 4, 2000).
One month later, he took a second one day flying lesson, however his instructor will later call him “dumb” and unskilled (see May 5 and 10, 2000).
Near the end of 2000, he told two unconnected associates that he was in Arizona and learning to fly with Hanjour (see (December 2000-January 2001)).
On March 19, 2001, he bought flight deck videos for Boeing 747s and a Boeing 777 (see November 5, 2000-June 20, 2001).
On March 23, 2001, he bought an aeronautical chart covering the northeastern US (see March 23, 2001).
In July 2001, he and Hanjour appear to have rented an aircraft together in New Jersey. Alhazmi’s credit card was used to pay for the aircraft rental, as well as fuel in Maryland (a072001haninawafflight).
Neighbors will later claim that just days before the 9/11 attacks, Alhazmi was practicing flying on a computer flight simulator program. [KGTV 10 (San Diego), 9/14/2001]
In 2002, al-Qaeda associate Ramzi bin al-Shibh will claim in an interview several months before his arrest that Alhazmi was one of the 9/11 pilots.

Remember how clear a morning 9/11/01 was?

Even though I normally can't land successfully in Flight Simulator software, I can dive into just about any building I choose.

I have little flying experience, that's for sure, and I admit that. It just seems mysterious from the outside, like the inside of an engine before you ever rebuild one. Then you pull the head and go... "oh yeah... pistons... I should have known...!"

The clarity of the sky is not an issue with placing the aircraft on a coarse which would result in striking the buildings . . . controlling the aircraft on its way to the targets is the real issue. Sorry guys I have to run.

acording to my `pet' qantas 747 pilot- who I know personally- it would be easy for him- and `fairly easy' even for anyone with any flight training at all to do (I have asked him this before BTW)

so if it comes down to some `guy on the net' or a guy I have met, had a bbq at his house and patted his dog- who just happens to fly 747's (and quite a few other airframes as well) as a captain with thousands of hours experience

well I am afraid your 737 instructor comes in a sad second (esp as my pilot has crossed swords with the `pilots for truth' mob on quite a few occaisons...)

I know which one I trust...

Try it at 530 miles per hour after making a banked turn of some significant degrees.

Where is Clare?

Not that I'm not fascinated by the current discussion, but you guys have hairy legs.

If I were a member of the hijacking team, I certainly would have left one of the pilots alive and had him fly the plane until it was close to the destination. Remember, before 9/11 most hijackings were about “demands” and often resulted in most of the passengers and crew surviving the ordeal. The last thing you would tell the passengers and crew was that they were on a suicide mission…there is no upside in that.

I'm in the mining game over here - and do a LOT of flying... (all on the company card LOL)

next time you fly- get a window seat...

esp if you are like me and take off from a local airport so you know the surrounding area

you will see yourself going wow- there's... and look thats .... and theres ...


the `couldnt hit a city if you gave me a torch and both hands' idiots obviously havent even flown at all- or if they have they didnt bother to look out the window....


the detail you can see is just.... indescribable...

You made a nice statement but how can you prove it? I know youtube is not the best source of info; but give me something besides your word. BTW, I have never seen anyone debunk these clips. I will admit I have not looked real hard but I would never-the-less love to see someone take them on.

I wonder who first brought up this idea that they waited until one of them looked out the window and went - look its wtc1/wtc/pentagon and then it was a big rush to take over the plane before it went too far away..


these guys DID have basic visual flight liscences- so they knew enough to be able to plot a course (pretty much from takeoff onwards) as long as they knew that they were flying towards nyc/wdc as long as they could remember the basic landmarks on a map...or had one with them- all they needed then was a window seat

Actually I wish some of these idiots had been in charge of flying a plane or four into bits of american countryside...

IMHO- not one of them would be able to hit the broadside of a barn....



(quite frankly- if they walked forwards- the truth would hit them on the arse...)

see I dont have to prove it to YOU

but I HAVE proved it to ME

so if you said something that he showed was wrong

then IMHO- everything you said (from then on and earlier) would be put into the `look REALLY carefully at this guys EVERY word...'

and if something I then knew from personal experience was true or not

well then ... someones talkin, and someone's walkin..


thats the problem with b.s.- someone will ALWAYS call you on it sooner or later- they dont `have ' to prove it to you- but when it makes them go `WTF??' this clown doesnt know shitte...

you have lost

Well my friend I guess we are at a standstill . . . I believe the clips as much as I believe your friend's opinion. Always liked the spirit of Australians . . . usually honest and to the point. Not a lot of BS. BTW what time is it there?

Last Edited by George B on 06/04/2010 03:17 PM

Here's a question Nancy can WORK with! It contains basic lack of understanding of how the Moon/sky works, so she can 'explain' the crap out of it!

Reply by Jose Luis Garcia 37 minutes ago
Thank you Nancy, but I wonder why it didn't change before now if its been happening since 2004. I go to bed at the same time every night and the moon was always shining in my window when I got into bed. The change is only recent.

Not finding these buildings would've been rather stupid.

It isn't as if they move around.

Planes have GPS, so you know where you are.
You have a map, so you know where your target is.
Plot a course.
Dial the autopilot.
Look out the window.

Even I could do that.

Navigation is a lot easier in the air then on the ground where you can't always see landmarks, and can't always go in a straight line.

So, is that something they would have learned to do in the flight training they took?

I mean, if *I* was sitting in that cockpit, would I know how do 'dial the autopilot'? No.

You wouldn't be able to fly from Airfield A to Airfield B without that skill.


I'm sure it is in the manual. ;)

It's where the cockpit videos come in.
They no doubt knew where the main instruments are, and how to use them.

Pilots have to learn and train so much because they have too be able to deal with contingencies.
Just flying isn't that hard.

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 06/04/2010 03:58 PM

I thought they only learned basic skills in/for small planes.