Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

Please try and keep on message Socky.

My erudition has left TLR *speechless*!!!



Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 11/17/2010 10:38 PM

It honestly does -- but this is likely not the thread to debate that.



Why don't you run for a local office, then? What's stopping you? Local politics is where the real decisions seem to be made, anyway.



You exaggerate. It doesn't take matrydom to change things. You can do it with your head, your hands, speaking, teaching, and learning. It's just that often those changes don't have the dramatic effects people want to see.

Streams carve out canyons. It just takes a long, long time.




If not you, who?




Then you aren't looking, or you are choosing a particularly dark set of shades to look through. I see miracles every day. I, personally, think it's a better time to be alive than any point in human history.

I mean, really, when would you have rather been alive? Name the century, and why.




Ahhh. Interesting. What would persuade you otherwise, then?



Maybe. I'll bail anyway, in your somewhat banal metaphor. And I will look at ways of slowly, but surely, fixing the "boat." And convincing a lot of other people to bail with their cups, as well.

How is your alternative of NOT bailing superior?



I think it's a fairly pointless possibility to address. Your either-or fallacy still stands above; as you somehow think those are the only two possibilities without addressing literally hundreds of others. But, I will indulge you, if only a bit.

You want a much, much scarier alternative to the scenarios you suggest? The one I believe might truly keep our elected leaders awake? The one the elite would NEVER want you to know or consider?

It's this:

They don't know any more than you do.

That's the big secret "they" don't want people to think about. That those in the so-called 'elite' are as clueless, blind, lost, surprised, and confused as the rest of the population. They do their best to control situations that are, by their very nature, uncontrollable, they try to shape the language and the debate, but they are as stuck on this roller coaster ride called life as any of the rest of us. The control you ascribe to certain individuals is an illuison at best. "They" still die from the diseases that claim the rest of us. "They" still die in accidents like the rest of us. "They" worry as much about their lives as we do about ours. "They" just aren't that different.

They have no more idea what the world will look like in a century than you do. Some might have access to a lot of interesting intel, but as we continually see, it doesn't seem to amount to much. They still blunder grandly, as do the rest of us -- except their blunders are national news.

I don't think there *are* any bunkers for the elite to hide in, because, frankly, I think none of them had the foresight, or wanted to go to such an expense that won't pay guaranteed dividends, to put such Noah's Arks together any more than *you* did. If they had, we'd have CASINOS in orbit, to keep the rich safe. We don't. None want to spend the money.

They DON'T know. They DON'T have a plan. They DON'T have secret information about the future of our species. Their attempts at manipulation FAIL. Your guess is as good as THEIR guess.

THAT'S terrifying, isn't it?

And with 6.5 billion people pulling in 6.5 billion different directions, it is quite hard to predict which way we, as a species, will go. But, again, we've been here before -- and we made it. We'll make it again, or we won't.

So I will continue, in my achingly small way, to make the difference I can to the people around me. I'll continue to discuss and learn and wonder, and hopefully encourage others to do the same. And, in doing so, live the best life I can with the knowledge, rules, and beliefs I have decided to adopt, and perhaps some of those rules, beliefs and knowledge will influence others positively.

Again, do you have a superior alternative? Certainly hoping an inbound planet will kill 5.4 billion of us isn't nearly as constructive...

You wish, Melfster!!

:Ha:

But - since they're a bunch of egotistical, self-absorbed, narcissistic, self-congratulatory maniacs, there's actually lots of reasons to think they just might.

So I still have hope for "change," but only as a sideline bystander. I have no desire to be a martyr. (Been there, done that - over-rated experience).


You exaggerate. It doesn't take matrydom to change things. You can do it with your head, your hands, speaking, teaching, and learning. It's just that often those changes don't have the dramatic effects people want to see.

Streams carve out canyons. It just takes a long, long time.



Yea - "it's up to me" ... LOL.


If not you, who?



I have zero "faith" in mankind's ultimate ability to solve it's own problems ... ZERO


A defeatist attitude, and illogical.


Nonsense. It's illogical to think that if David and Goliath had a rematch, that David would win "again". It's "illogical" to assume that the dude wrapped in duck tape is going to prevail against the gang kicking the shit out of him.

Yea - I have a defeatist attitude. I see nothing but DEFEAT all around me.


Then you aren't looking, or you are choosing a particularly dark set of shades to look through. I see miracles every day. I, personally, think it's a better time to be alive than any point in human history.

I mean, really, when would you have rather been alive? Name the century, and why.



OK, maybe "zero" is a bit of an exaggeration. Let's say I'm EXTREMELY PERSUADED that mankind does not have the ability to solve its own problems.


Ahhh. Interesting. What would persuade you otherwise, then?


At least I can call a SPADE A SPADE. "achingly small steps". That's like bailing a cup of water for every gallon that seeps in. Sorry, but with math like that, sinking is inevitable.


Maybe. I'll bail anyway, in your somewhat banal metaphor. And I will look at ways of slowly, but surely, fixing the "boat." And convincing a lot of other people to bail with their cups, as well.

How is your alternative of NOT bailing superior?


At this stage I see two likely outcomes - the year becomes 1984, the population is steered intentionally toward a cliff and run off it. The elite hide in their bunkers until 90% of the population has perished, and then reclaims the earth as essentially a SLAVE planet with a population around the 500,000,000 they listed on the Georgia Guidestones.


Funny how not SINGLE debunker addresses this possibility. VERY TELLING.


I think it's a fairly pointless possibility to address. Your either-or fallacy still stands above; as you somehow think those are the only two possibilities without addressing literally hundreds of others. But, I will indulge you, if only a bit.

You want a much, much scarier alternative to the scenarios you suggest? The one I believe might truly keep our elected leaders awake? The one the elite would NEVER want you to know or consider?

It's this:

They don't know any more than you do.

That's the big secret "they" don't want people to think about. That those in the so-called 'elite' are as clueless, blind, lost, surprised, and confused as the rest of the population. They do their best to control situations that are, by their very nature, uncontrollable, they try to shape the language and the debate, but they are as stuck on this roller coaster ride called life as any of the rest of us. The control you ascribe to certain individuals is an illuison at best. "They" still die from the diseases that claim the rest of us. "They" still die in accidents like the rest of us. "They" worry as much about their lives as we do about ours. "They" just aren't that different.

They have no more idea what the world will look like in a century than you do. Some might have access to a lot of interesting intel, but as we continually see, it doesn't seem to amount to much. They still blunder grandly, as do the rest of us -- except their blunders are national news.

I don't think there *are* any bunkers for the elite to hide in, because, frankly, I think none of them had the foresight, or wanted to go to such an expense that won't pay guaranteed dividends, to put such Noah's Arks together any more than *you* did. If they had, we'd have CASINOS in orbit, to keep the rich safe. We don't. None want to spend the money.

They DON'T know. They DON'T have a plan. They DON'T have secret information about the future of our species. Their attempts at manipulation FAIL. Your guess is as good as THEIR guess.

THAT'S terrifying, isn't it?

And with 6.5 billion people pulling in 6.5 billion different directions, it is quite hard to predict which way we, as a species, will go. But, again, we've been here before -- and we made it. We'll make it again, or we won't.

So I will continue, in my achingly small way, to make the difference I can to the people around me. I'll continue to discuss and learn and wonder, and hopefully encourage others to do the same. And, in doing so, live the best life I can with the knowledge, rules, and beliefs I have decided to adopt, and perhaps some of those rules, beliefs and knowledge will influence others positively.

Again, do you have a superior alternative? Certainly hoping an inbound planet will kill 5.4 billion of us isn't nearly as constructive...

I live in a small rural town. The mayor is a member of one of the wealthiest families in the area. He owns over half of downtown, tons of real estate in town and surrounding farmland. He said yes to a WalMart Super Center when the vast majority of residents wanted no part of it. His politics are dirty, his campaigns were all smear attacks against his opponents. Over half of the town's population is comprised of Mexican immigrants - the VAST majority illegals. Not only has NOTHING on a local level been done to stop this - it was in fact ENCOURAGED. Most of the registered voters are lower class and lower middle class. To win an election here, you'd have to weather the incumbants smear campaign that he would gladly spend tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on (some of it from WalMart). While fighting you, he would send the local code enforcement people to your home and business and harrass you that way. Politics is every bit as bad, and every bit as hazardous at the local level as it is at any other level.
There are some good people in local politics in this country, but they're in the minority - and the difference they're making is getting harder to identify. You seem to argue that the "only" hope a little guy has is to make a microscopic difference at the local level - whatever happened to the fiction that "anyone" can grow up to be "President?"

Oh - that's right ... IT'S FICTION.



Martin Luther King - and don't tell me you think he was taken out by a "lone" assassin. That argument doesn't hold water anymore.

There's a threshold of "effectiveness" - and anyone who passes that threshold will win themselves a date with a contracted "jackel".

Think Sonny Bono.



And every word now gets recorded, indexed, catalogued and made available for any agency to access in seconds. Have you even read 1984?



I'll agree with THAT one! Boy, you're really INSPIRING me now!!! This world needs DRAMATIC change, but you're essentially saying there's little chance of that happening.




Time's just about run out. We certainly don't have a "long, long time."



Not you either apparently - as you seem to think there's nothing too "concerning" to be too concerned about.



I see miracles everyday as well. Funny how your approach to "helping me" basically encompasses "lowering my sights".
Maybe, if more people saw the TRUE EXTENT of the disease, there "might" be hope - but with dudes like you WHITE WASHING everything, everyday, ALL THE TIME, the true extent is not appreciated by the casual observer. They're too busy "lowering thier sights," "counting thier blessings," and standing at intersections selling Tootsie Rolls for kids in wheel chairs. In the meantime, ROME BURNS.

But you know - you're right. It's pointless to look at the big picture. It's beyond my grasp, OUR grasp apparently.

"I *love* Big Brother".



OK, maybe "zero" is a bit of an exaggeration. Let's say I'm EXTREMELY PERSUADED that mankind does not have the ability to solve its own problems.


Ahhh. Interesting. What would persuade you otherwise, then?


At least I can call a SPADE A SPADE. "achingly small steps". That's like bailing a cup of water for every gallon that seeps in. Sorry, but with math like that, sinking is inevitable.


Maybe. I'll bail anyway, in your somewhat banal metaphor. And I will look at ways of slowly, but surely, fixing the "boat."
[/quotes]
"slowly"? - Welcome to FAIL.



NOW WE'RE TALKING!! But you're not doing that. Everything you type is aimed at calming not riling. At white-washing, not spot-lighting. You talk in platitudes, not specifics. You show no outrage at ANYTHING. You're just a happy, happy potted plant.

Isn't that wonderful?



Never said it was. I don't present an "alternative", nor advocate that anyone do anything I do or have done or not done I'm just "venting" while we still have the opportunity to do so without severe reprecussions. Though I see that changing VERY SOON now. In fact it's a good bet I've already dug most of my grave, just with the words I've written on this forum over the last three or so years. When "they" come to get me in the middle of the night in the not now distant future, I for one "won't be surprised".



Nonsense - The NSA doesn't know "more" than I do.

ABSURD on it's face.



So what you're saying is KNOWLEDGE really isn't POWER after all. That's a very interesting perspective, and one that would evoke much laughter in other settings.

No they have KNOWLEDGE and they have POWER. What I HOPE they lack is the wisdom to use it effectively enough to achieve their nefarious ends.

Oh - but you'd argue they have no "nefarious" ends. They're just ordinary folks like you and me.

Heh.



Oh contraire. I see tyranny growing BY THE DAY. And a lot more people do now as well. "Interesting intel" has made that possible.



I'll agree with you THERE. In fact, their "blundering" is about the ONLY hope we have left to avoid the final victory of "Big Brother". But so far I don't see too many missteps.



ROTFLMAO!! The evidence for MASSIVE underground installations all over the world is overwhelming. It's in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. As for the CASINOS in orbit, do you think the Rockefellers "gamble" at Casinos? Hell - they OWN the Casinos. And why do you think that if they had built Casinos in space, that we'd even know about them?



Yep - keep those sights LOW. And keep encouraging others to continue to lower thiers more and more and more.

Hey - it's WHAT YOU DO!! (Probably get paid for it too!)




Learn "what"? That there are no aliens, Big Brother, chemtrails etc, etc. And that lemon juice is an acid and zero is not divisible? Your "wonder" is very limited, very channeled ... VERY ***SAFE***.



It would be better than "1984".

(Have you read it? - or maybe it was mysteriously deleted off of you Kindle like it was for so many others)

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 11/18/2010 05:22 AM

Muahuahuhuahuuhauhhahhhhhhh!

That was a good one......perhaps you have to start to learn how to learn to learn, but as i already said i see littlch chnace of success even with vaild help from knowing staff......

and besides, be assured others do NOT neet your encouragement or example.

Still time to reconsider, didnt you learn from your recent dailure ? nearly two thirs of the time have gone since i knowinglly hold the ticking clock under your nose.

All the time you have been continuously woowooing and terrorizing the world with your utter bullshit. Do you relaay believe learning is an issue for you ?

Its insight what you are what you need !


Reminder for Nancy to think about a valid answer for her 2012 non-show since Nov 11, 2008.
737 days gone, 409 days to go until Nancys final failure (at 1.1.2012)
Nancy backpedalled first on July4th, 2009. ("Nancy-the Zetas made good use of the White lie,in May 2003. Could this work again in present time to confuse the TPTB??") -"SOZT This is within the realm of possibility. EOZT"
Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat July 4 (Page 5)
Nancy backpedalled second at July 18, 2009." As we have stated repeatedly, almost weekly, we will give NO indication of a timeline. "
Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat July 18 (Page 2)
Discussionthread about previous link ;-)
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Nancy backpedalled third at August 22, 2009. "NO time frame details can be relayed, period. But…... " (p 3), (White lie again) Nancytalk "this was admitted as entirely plausible in a recent chat. Check the chat archives", "Sattelite move whithin atmosphere" (somewhere),
Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat August 22 (Page 3)
Nancy backpedalled fourt at 5th Spt 09, SOZT ….It is still theoretically possible for a passage to cause nothing more than high tides and strong earthquakes…." EOZT, p3
Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat September 5 (Page 5)

So there's a slight shitstorm on the poleshift ning. A Norwegian guy posted a picture of a lens flare to the left of the sun. Nancy responded saying that Planet X should be to the right of the sun, but because the Earth is wobbling around it would appear to the left so the image is genuinely Nibiru.

Of course even the people on the ning realize that this is geometrically impossible, and some of them even tried to call her out on it in the comments. They're trying pretty hard not to get banhammered while doing it but I think the ning will be short a few members by the time the dust settles.

Starts here: [link to poleshift.ning.com]

Now Nancy is backpedaling furiously! the flare is in front of trees and quite obviously a lens flare. Woops, caught again!

Nah, the ning comments read backwards. She originally thought it was a lens flare but changed her mind.

Nancy will produce another thick layer of pure BS, but say it so dramatically and self-assured that none of them will dare to challenge it. It's all about the presentation. She could say anything, anything at all and most of them would quietly acquiesce.

Comment by Petra Faile 1 day ago

"Wow Bjorn no eyedoctor needed :) if Nancy say it is PX .IT IS ...NOW I hope I can see it also overhere for 4 years I'am waiting to see the red destroyer..I believed it from the start all the time !!and meet a lot of people who say Iám nuts there is no 12th planet second sun...so today Bjorn you made me very happy again to see the pic :)THX"

I love how the poster claims that it isn't an optical illusion because he saw it with his own two eyes. Come on! If there were really two suns in the sky like that...there wouldn't be a person on planet that wouldn't have noticed and be talking about it. Naturally, most of the idiots over at the ning don't think about these things (in fact, they just don't think) and tend to believe whatever queen Nancy tells them. Case in point...Petra posted "if Nancy says it is PX. IT IS." And Astrogal50's comment is hilarious. She says that one of the experts will respond but the only way to know for sure is to ask the "Zetas." LOL!! The stupid is truly strong over there.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 11/18/2010 06:54 AM

"if Nancy says it is PX. IT IS."

The funny thing is the forum threads read normally, it's only the blog entry comments that are backwards. Of course they look exactly the same in terms of visual style, so it's easy to forget which way it goes until you read the time and date stamps.

Zetatalk doesn't disrupt lives? Think again:

[link to poleshift.ning.com]

Comment by Petra Faile 2 hours ago

Hi Bjorn you find your way around here on the ning...no date is been given only that the 21-12-2012 is not right
and prepare yourself Bjorn...when the EU tsuanmi will take place your country will also have problems...
I move out Holland on 1-2-2011 to go to Spains highlands.....I have to leave my country Staying here is no option. greetz Petra

Irony of last name noted.

And she has a young son.
<grimaces>
The involvement of children in these delusions is my pet peeve. If I have helped to prevent the displacement of just one child during all these years then it is worth it.

Maybe "Petra" is not exactly what he seems?

Dang Menow - Holland is mostly UNDER sea level. No one needs PX to know that living there is RISKY.

Isn't it possible that some of the ning 'true believers' are just Nancy's sock-puppets? She's done that in the past, to make it appear as if people are taking her seriously.

I hope so. It's sad to think people might be uprooting their lives over PX drivel.

Firstly, thank you for, at last, CONVERSING in a civilized manner. I appreciate it.





Actually, it's not a fiction, though I certainly agree that the resources it takes to run for office can be very, very daunting now.

As for your local situation, that sounds pretty bad. However, there must be some people in your area who feel as you do, and disagree with the Mayor's decisions over Wal-mart. That's how you run against him. It doesn't matter whether, in the end, you win or lose, but his campaign is going to answer for his actions. And, if they are smearing you and harassing you using town resources to do it, you loudly proclaim that as well. If they are shooting at you, you know you're doing something right.

That's how you change things.





I am not saying martyrs can't change things -- they certainly do. But they aren't the *only* way to change things.

By the by, MLK's death, in the long run, seems to have helped his causes more than hurt them. Martyrs can't be silenced, yet supposedly the 'elite' just keep blithely ignoring that lesson.

And I never thought Sonny Bono was terribly effective, nor a threat, up to when he died. But, then again, I know little of his record.




A non-sequitur, but we can depart for a bit. Certainly, I've read 1984 -- and its warnings are important and prophetic. However, what Orwell didn't visualize is *everyone* having access to such media. Everyone having their own channel. There isn't a single entity in charge, much as you and Nancy Lieder would like to have us believe. The Internet truly has become the great equalizer in getting word out. Politicians words and actions are getting recorded, cataloged, and made available right along with everyone else's.

I have often felt that privacy was going to be the grand debate of this decade, but 9-11, unfortunately, put that debate well onto the back burner. However, the advocacy of privacy is slowly making a comeback and, in the meantime, the 'elite' are finding they have no more privacy than anyone else. Sauce for the goose, I suppose.



If the world needs dramatic change, I would such change is made up of a whole lot of little changes over time. And, again, those changes we can (and do!) make in our lives every day.

It sounds hippy. But it does work.



So, again, you don't think you should try? And, as an aside, every generation keeps stating that we don't have a long, long time. Yet, we do. So best to make the changes now, just in case the world continues to not end. Just a suggestion.




There are a *myriad* of things to be concerned with. From the macro problems of economics, division of wealth and labor, human effects of the environment, the politicization of science, to the micro problems of local budgets, education, misapplication of law enforcement -- to name but a few. But insisting those resources get allocated toward preparations for an inbound planet is silly, and a waste. In the meantime, speaking and writing about what I think does make a difference, however small. And those differences add up.





Taking a page from your book, the fact you avoided this question is very telling.





Firstly I, honestly, am not trying to help you -- I am trying to UNDERSTAND you, as well as others who follow and support Nancy Lieder (even though I have often thought, recently, that you only do so faciciously).

Secondly -- how is what I am advocating 'lowering your sights?' Why the value judgment? You seem to be arguing that nothing anyone can do will change anything, therefore I sure hope an astronomical catastrophe will come by and wipe out ninety percent of us. I am arguing that we all CAN change things, albeit in small ways that take time. And *I* am the defeatist?

There is no 'white washing.' There are tremedous problems facing us today. But to sit back and hope a cosmic event resets the game (and also conveniently leaves you as one of the survivors) is simply not constructive, nor realistic. And we seem to forget that EVERY generation faces tremendous problems.




No, it's not. But, to use another rather hippy colloquialism: think globally, act locally.




In the age of the Internet, *everyone* is Big Brother, in one way or another. Again, that's among the equalizers.




Again you avoid this question. Why?





Again, you seem to advocate no alternative. And, were we to really take the metaphor all the way: I am bailing, and trying to fix the boat: you are advocating drowning 90 percent of the passengers and smashing the boat up altogether, in the hopes of building a new one.

I vaguely disagree with the metaphor on its face, by the way. We should think of a new one.



Ad hominem noted. Riled people can accomplish positive htings, but that seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. Who would you rather have when a tornado is bearing down? THe person yelling and screaming, or the person calmly reasoning where the shelter is?

If such riling is not having the desired results -- and Nancy Lieder is an excellent example of this -- you should change that tactic. And I find it interesting that you would attack me on not spot-lighting, and talking in platitudes without specifics, when Nancy/Zetas do *exactly* the same thing. Why is that? Why the double standard?




It has its moments.






Hm. If you are just venting, then you really aren't looking for solutions to the problems other than waiting for Nancy's Armageddon.

And you call *me* a potted plant. Ironic.






Sure, individuals know more. People know more. The agency itself, however, conducts itself as if it doesn't. Herds of people do not act intelligently, yet we set up agencies in exactly those kinds of herds. Here we are, a decade after 9-11, with so many different departments of so many different agencies and groups of people that are all theoretically being part of our Nation's intelligence gathering network, so vast and complete that no good intelligence is actually being gathered, indexed, processed, or acted upon.




I am saying no such thing. Or course there is power in knowledge. But our government is made up of thousands of individuals, and the knowledge gets filtered, lost, found, moved, and lost again. Our government in marvellously inefficient -- though part of that is by the design of the fathers of the country.

Now, corporations are more efficient. They scare me quite a bit more than government -- particularly as I have LESS say in a Corporation and its actions. But even when they get into megalithic proportions, their effectiveness seems to become proportionally reduced. Perfect example: McMahon running for office. She far outspent her opponent, and still lost utterly.

So, in your worldview, who was the 'elite' in this race?



They have different ideas on how to achieve those ends. If you met those 'elite' when they were kids, you'd find they were just kids. They really do believe that their method is the way to make life better for everyone. I think many of them are wrong. But the ends they believe they are achieving aren't nefarious -- certainly not from their point of view. And, for me, I will have converstaions like this with those very people -- or, at least, people in the electorate that seem to support those 'nefarious' people -- and explain my point of view and try to understand theirs. And, in some cases, change a mind or two.

Do you believe that you've changed minds with your actions, ZM? Here on this thread, for example?





Yet interesting intel is being exposed by individuals about the elite, every day. If the 'elite' are really as all powerful as you, or others, seem to think, how is this possible? The 'elite' cannot be all-powerful and all-incompetent at the same time.





Oh, my GOODNESS, then, you aren't looking. The missteps happen daily, all throughout the system, and are all over the place hours later. Politicians, in the age of the cel-phone camera, can't mis-speak for an INSTANT. The trails of money in politics get exposed every day.





Cite the source, please. And, of course, I am not talking about the Cold-War era survive nuclear catastrophe ones. I'm talking about supposed underground cities that will hold hundreds of thousands for years. Look forward to your links. I expect they will be from sites as chock full of reliable information as GLP itself.



Uh, because we could SEE them? Because we'd see the telltale signs of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of pounds of materials in orbit to make such structures? It took ten years to build the ISS -- you are suggesting that LARGER structures in orbit could be launched, built in secret, and yet you couldn't see it from the ground?

You are ascribing magical powers to the elite, then. The 'elite' just aren't THAT 'elite.'



Again with the value judgment. What is "low" about the idea of doing what one can, however small, to make things better? While, again, you advocate no other constructive alternative?



Sigh. HAD to go back there, didn't you? And we were doing pretty well in the 'fallacious argument' department. Ad hominem noted.



How about learn that the Universe is a magnificent place, that single individuals can make small changes that can sometimes have transformitive positive consequence, that there is plenty of wonder to be had in what we can observe without resorting to the absurd, that there is no such thing as the mundane if you look at it right, and that the effect of a negative result in science is gloriously valuable.

Oh, and that zero isn't divisible.



If you remember, there was every sign that Ingsoc was headed for a fall in 1984. Such regimes have always fallen, in history -- again, part of that cyclical nature of things that you seem to disagree with. So you really think that it would be worth wiping out 90 percent of humanity to supposedly head off such a regime? What makes you think that the ten percent that were left wouldn't be organized into such a regime?



There was nothing mysterious about 1984 being deleted of Kindles. Do you know the story behind that? If so, why do you try to put a nefarious spin on it? The over-dramatization of such events is a huge part of the problem, and of the noise that gets spread about. But, then, you truly seem to enjoy the noise, rather than the music of reality and fact.

So perhaps, then, our differences are merely those of taste. I suppose that's possible.

Thank you, again, for your somewhat more civil tone.

Well at least you are back on message eh, Melfster!!

Remember, the "tipping point" was supposed to be "100 times worse than 9/11".

ROTFLMAO!

Sure.



He's crafty - and therefore is not entirely "unpopular". He strong-armed the downtown businesses into tuck-pointing and cleaning up their exteriors. He earned favors with other power brokers and as a result half the streets in town have been repaved with "stimulus" money. His intervention enabled the local Chevy dealer to remain open, and the ones in surrounding locales were forced to close. It'd be nice if all this was for "the collective good", but really, he's just a hugely ambitious "mini Boss Hog" who wants to turn our little slice of rural isolation into the next Bohemian water park resort destination (which would of course vastly increase the market value of his numerous real estate holdings). Not having a lot luck with that, but BOY is he trying!! He's not Hitler or Stalin - he's just VERY typical of those who enter politics more for personal gain, over any desire to serve the collective good.

Frankly, the reason I moved here was to land in a relatively stable locale where the politics were predictable and conservative, so I wouldn't have to worry too much about the immediate environment surrounding me. The community is pretty safe, the police and fire VERY responsive and still pretty friendly and easy going.

So far, I do not regret my decision to move here.

The point I'm making, is it would be counter-productive to spend all my time and energy to unseat him. He's not the "solution", but as far being the "problem", he's way down on the list of immediate "concerns".

One must choose their battles VERY carefully.




Bono was digging into the war-on-drugs stuff I believe (if not it was something similar). But whatever it was, it became clear to other players that he was determined, and not corruptible. His built in celebrity gave him more influence than your typical congressman. He was a big problem who was getting bigger and bigger.

Finding that line that marks maximum effectiveness, but keeps your blood flowing, is a very difficult balance master and maintain. Lots of martyrs tried to find it and failed. And lots of nobodies reigned themselves in too much, and their effectiveness largely evaporated.



You make a VERY good point. I will credit where it is do. Yes, no doubt the modern internet has been more of a setback than an aid to the "globalists".



Whoa! Now who's guilty of EXAGGERATION. It has made the playing field "more" level, but it's still not truly level. The big boys OWN the backbone, and can order it shut down in response to a national emergency at ANY time. Of course the drawback to that, is that most large corporations have built their communications around the current internet architecture, and so shutting it down is not "really" an option. But with large organizations off-shoring like never before, a day "could" come where the loss of the American backbone would be a "risk worth taking". But I'm not worried about the loss of the internet as an isolated occurence. If the internet goes down, it will because there are MUCH bigger problems to be worried about.

But again, I'll give you kudos for pointing this out. It wasn't that I was not "aware" of this reality, but perhaps it does indeed deserve more "weight" than I previously gave to it.



So what? - their words are PABLUM, vapid and substance-less. It simply becomes "recorded" pablum. Mostly worthless and a waste of disk space.

But that is what it's intended to be. The REAL conversations take place without cameras and microphones in attendance.





By DESIGN. From a cabal, globalist perspective, a "9-11 event" is so helpful to your cause, why wouldn't you stage it???



Only in response to IN-YOUR-FACE gross violations of it. I'm indeed encouraged by the push-back, but still pessimistic in that I don't think it's "enough". Time will shortly tell though.



Not true at all. Unless you consider Tom Cruise and Jennifer Anistan as members of the "elite". Information on the TRUE power brokers, the Rothschild's, Rockefellers, etc., is still just as difficult to obtain.



Perhaps - it's just not a very persuasive, motivating cajole. Not a speech likely to get a rousing response from others.



The current conditions are a factor of humanity's collective "maturity" - which is unfortunately not very high. There's no way to fix it or speed it up. The "elite" are galling to me for the reason that they see this immaturity as an opportunity to exploit and oppress, rather than as a opportunity to nurture. In itself, it is just another manifestation of "immaturity" - but a particularly noxious form of it that creates LOTS of excessive suffering - far more than is needed for growth. In fact, it often interferes with and retards or even arrests growth. Which is why I debate if "external intervention" really is called for. No doubt that part of Nancy's/Zeta's argument is compelling to me. The STS and STO stuff I still consider BRILLIANT - and while not necessarily her "invention", there are not a lot of treatments of this topic available, and ZetaTalk, for all its "faults", discusses this aspect with surprising lucidity and consistency.


There's plenty of evidence - both chronicled and referenced within Zetatalk, and outside of it to warrant concern about 2012 and potential earth changes. I've said before that Zetatalk may be a psy-op in itself - designed to throw inquiring minds off the scent. If so my participation with "it" - as well as in this thread - is my way of saying IT AINT WORKING!!!

We'll know for sure in January.