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its almost like he wants to be the maximum zetababbler- almost like he's wanting (desperately) to be like the maximum zetababbler `nancy LIEder' for some reason...

almost like he's related to her in some way

and has been pushed aside by others in some way...

You don't even know what the word means or the level of expertise we actually have. Amateur is not an insult to us, in fact in our field it generally denotes someone who is highly skilled at astronomy because they love it, not because they're paid to do it. Passion is a powerful driver.

There's a good reason I'm an amateur astronomer like so many others; we have completely free reign over what it is we want to do within astronomy. One night we can be tracking satellites, the next we can be measuring variable stars, we can pick and choose our specific interests to our hearts' content. Professional astronomers have to seek funding for specific projects and then stick to those projects through to completion, generally remaining in a specific area of the field for their entire lives.

Wow, it's truly epic how wrong you are. Come to the annual chiefland or texas star party some time and educate yourself pal.

How many objects have you tracked in cis-lunar space? 0. How many have myself and others tracked? Do you know? No, you do not. It illustrates the point that we're far more skilled than you give us credit for.

You arrogantly assume that. It's exciting to most amateur astronomers.

By the time the shuttle flew, amateur astronomy was already well developed and highly advanced. The shuttle itself was tracked by amateurs from the start of the program right up until the bitter end. Even the classified satellites it launched were tracked. Even during Apollo though, amateurs had all kinds of advanced equipment that enabled them to track satellites even in cis-lunar space.

Last Edited by Astromut on 08/03/2012 02:22 PM

>> Come to the annual chiefland or texas star party some time and educate yourself pal.

80-20 is pretty ubiquitous. 20% of the people are doing 80% of the "astronomy". The rest are dabblers and socializers who are there for the "party" as much as the "astronomy".

Even if this event was attended by THOUSANDS, the number of folks who would even have a chance of noticing an astronomical "discrepancy" would be no more than a few hundred - and that's being GENEROUS. Most are like Hap - taking pictures of pretty nebula and saying "looky here!"

They're in it for the "WOW" factor - and dream about having a comet named after them the way most dream about the lottery. NOT "realistically".

Other's fish and hunt and sailboard to get their thrills.

Nothing wrong with taking pretty pictures of nebula - but it's a HOBBY not "science".

>> Even during Apollo though, amateurs had all kinds of advanced equipment that enabled them to track satellites even in cis-lunar space.

Uhhmm - that would "some" amateurs. (Let's be accurate here.) And then, out of those with the "advanced" equipment capable of tracking satellites, how many are actually doing so???

My assertion would be - not many.

Most of these folks would be looking for new comets, and supernova, and dreaming of "stardom" - literally. Tracking near earth objects that are mostly just big rocks, is not going to impress most of the ladies in attendance.

They'll be over at Hap's table - looking at all his pretty nebula photos.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 02:59 PM

It's amazing how completely wrong you are. I dare you to come to chiefland this fall and find out for yourself. If you had the integrity to actually show your face you'd find that everyone there is there to do astronomy all night long. Yes, we socialize, but we're also highly productive.


All it takes is one! Anthony Wesley found his first jupiter impact by himself. Thanks for admitting that the black knight would have been found by hundreds, and that's far more than enough.

You may be a "scientist" - but not much of a "social" scientist. In a gathering of large people, MOST are mere pretenders. Yea, 90% show up with scopes, but 80% of those ninety percent will simply be following the lead of the 20% (and doing it incompetantly in a lot of cases). If they find anything out of the ordinary, it will be dumb luck - and a surprising number there would be, who looking at a Jupiter impact, would have no idea that what they just witnessed had any "importance" and was not "normal" - and would be TOO AFRAID to ask the opinion of the guy next to them.

How many times have you tried to describe something - with the other person smiling and nodding and you thinking they're hanging on your every word, only to find out later they actually had NO CLUE what you were talking about?

Most people are far more terrified of LOOKING stupid than actually BEING stupid.

(I - obviously - have no such inhibitions.)

I guarantee, that would be more than 50% of the attendees at this event - or ANY event (even professional ones - where everyone is REALLY supposed to know what's going on).

>> All it takes is one! Anthony Wesley found his first jupiter impact by himself. Thanks for admitting that the black knight would have been found by hundreds, and that's far more than enough.

These mega "rave gathering type" events (that span the spectrum of activities) are relatively recent phenomena, made possible with the advent of relatively cheap travel that didn't really appear until the seventies (And thanks to gas prices and high air fare, are now DROPPING precipitously in attendance) and the internet. Prior to the nineties, newsletters were about the only "community" there was.

Black Knight was GONE by the time this kind of socializing really took hold.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 03:28 PM

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!!!!!!!

I've been watching this thread from page 1 and I gotta say YOU'RE ENTERTAINING!!!!!
AND
If it wasn't for the likes of the zetatard and billyboy (among others) it would have folded long ago.

THANK YOU zetatard max I never believed anyone could be as stupid as you and still be able to type.
OH
A special thanks goes out to Ms. LIEder without her all this would have never started. Ms. LIE oooppppsss Ms. LIEder thanks for all the hours of enjoyment!!!!!!

You're such a bullshitter.


Amateur astronomy* came first anyway.

Brahe, Kepler, and Galileo certainly weren't paid to do their observations.

*In the scientific sense.

ETA: I think my western-centricity just showed, there were court astronomers who weren't just astrologers in the middle and far East during the Middle Ages.

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 08/03/2012 03:50 PM

Then show me, come on, put your money where your mouth is and show your face at this year's fall star party at chiefland. I've attended that event for quite a few years now and I know from first hand experience that you're dead wrong. Just about 100% show up with scopes and any one of them could run circles around you with their knowledge and expertise. We all do our own things, we all have our particular areas of interest, and we don't play "follow the leader."

You're completely wrong. I get the feeling that at this point you're just trying to deliberately insult and bad mouth amateur astronomers. The Wesley impacts were noticed precisely because you're wrong and amateur astronomers DO know how to find events that are out of the ordinary. Amateur satellite trackers would not be capable of tracking classified sats if we were as inept as you claim we are.

The Stellafane Convention has been a star party that has been held since 1926 melfy. You're dead wrong.

>> and we don't play "follow the leader."

"We" - meaning the 20%, and I would definitely put YOU in that category. But as such, you are a HORRIBLE spokesman for the 80% who you're clearly not good at relating too (a flaw I've noted in MANY folk with High IQ scores). It's even worse when the brainy types get together - the arrogance GOES OFF THE CHARTS.

They 80% are called SHEEPLE for a reason - and you will find them in ALL "open to the public" organically organized activities. If you want a group of "thinkers" and "doers", then someone has to a LOT of screening. And then even that group will amazingly break down into 20% doing 80% of the real work.

Think Manhatten project.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 03:51 PM

I see a lot of words but no evidence.

Only projection.

You have no idea what you're talking about. But since you don't have the guts to come to an actual star party, you'll never find out that other amateur astronomers are very much like me, usually with even better equipment.

Well then you should definitely come to the star party and help balance that out.

BLAZAR IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND VERY ,VERY CLOSE NOW!@!!!!!

A COMPLETE melfdown!!! All because melfy the lying troll doesn't have a clue about how science works or what he is yapping about! CLASSIC!!!!

melfy the troll in a puddle on the floor, COMEDY GOLD!!!!!

>> you'll never find out that other amateur astronomers are very much like me, usually with even better equipment.

I don't doubt that for a minute. And I'm sure that just like a gathering of vintage muscle car owners, most are there to SHOW OFF THEIR "BETTER" EQUIPMENT, get "ooh's and ahh's" and jealous looks; and drink beer and eat brats. The "ride in the country" (so to speak) is entirely secondary, and not the primary reason for "showing up".

Anyone wanting to do "serious" astronomy, is not going to find a "party" atmosphere conducive to productive "work" on some pet project.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 04:29 PM

Look! Zetamax making up all kinds of statistics about a subject and people he knows nothing about without any supporting evidence whatsoever!

That NEVER happens!

The "Cornhole Tournament"

[link to chieflandstarpartygroup.com]

You're a complete asshole.

Wow, he really is. When all else fails, he resorts to homophobic insults.

Wow, you really have no room to talk melfy. When was the last time you tracked a satellite in broad daylight?

No, in fact most are there to compare notes and enjoy the friendship of like minded people who also enjoy observing the night sky. If they were just there to show off their equipment, they wouldn't come back year after year with the same telescope to meet with the same people.

Again, you have nothing to base this on since you're too gutless to actually show up and see what it's like to spend a week under dark skies surrounded by people who know more about what's out there than you do.

Holy cow, you have no idea what the atmosphere is like. How many star parties have you attended? ZERO! And yes, I've worked on pet projects myself at Chiefland, as did others around me.

Last Edited by Astromut on 08/03/2012 06:43 PM

Case in point - he's got mental issues galore.

Anyway, I'm back on-line finally. My amateur radio station took a direct lightning hit Monday night. All cables from the antennas were disconnected from the equipment but the lightning said, "F**k that...I'm going through your expensive equipment." It took out my $1500 HF transceiver, my $1800 HF antenna, the UPS for my PC, the network interface on the PC, the router, the cable modem and the cable distribution block out in the backyard.

Nice family portrait there Max. Do you still have that hat?

When are you going to stop?

The stupid is strong over there.

It's right on the website! I can't make this shit up!

Yes, you most certainly failed. You usually do.

>> No, in fact most are there to compare notes and enjoy the friendship of like minded people who also enjoy observing the night sky. If they were just there to show off their equipment, they wouldn't come back year after year with the same telescope to meet with the same people.

I spent a week with Dr. Greer at one of his "trainings" back in 2006. No less than 2/3 were regular GROUPIES that were somehow independantly wealthy - and traveling all the over the world with him was something they just liked to do.

In a private moment, he was actually pretty derisive of them - for other than the fees they paid to participate, he considered them altogether "worthless".

I can guarantee you, a "star club" has no shortage of these types - who consider themselves "erudite" because they hang around smart people. Very convenient, because unlike truly organic relationships, they can be assured that the "group" will not reject them, or "unmask" them.

Now of course there are participants "like you" who really, Really, REALLY care about astronomy. But if you seriously think you're in the "majority" - heh, I got some prime Florida real estate to sell you ...

>> Again, you have nothing to base this on since you're too gutless to actually show up and see what it's like to spend a week under dark skies surrounded by people who know more about what's out there than you do.

Look "kid" (I'm probably two decades your senior), I've been around more people, events, and circumstances than I care to recall. There's nothing "special" about a star club. In my younger years I was always amused by a friend's endless recounting of the CUT-THROAT politics of the crafter's tent at the Wayne County Fair in Detroit. You'd think she was describing the "Sopranos". People lie, exaggerate, back-stab, maneuver, make promises they don't keep, bore everybody with thier constant attention hogging ... and in between all that, occasionally apply applique to an apron.

I KNOW a "star club" is no different. I've seen these dynamics EVERYWHERE.

On top of all that, there's certainly more than a couple "undercover" types on the DOD/CIA/FBI/NASA payroll as well - wandering around, and ready to POUNCE on any conversation that sounds like it's getting too far "out there".

I'm not saying there isn't "good astronomy" going on at these events - just not as "much" as you're implying, and certainly not enough to make the certainty that something like "the Black Knight Satellite" would be discovered and consistently tracked - a foregone conclusion.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 10:46 PM

Look! Zetamax making up all kinds of statistics about a subject and people he knows nothing about without any supporting evidence whatsoever!

That NEVER happens! Except now twice on the same PAGE!

>> Case in point - he's got mental issues galore.

Welcome back!

>> By the time the shuttle flew, amateur astronomy was already well developed and highly advanced.

Yea, but SHARING information was NOT. Taking sky photos in the seventies and even eighties required film that needed later development, and expensive copies to deseminate. Making a case for other amateur's to investigate took a LOT more "marketing" back then than it does now. After all, "seeing is believing". Today's technology would indeed make it harder to keep secrets, but today's technology was NOT as available or affordable to the ordinary amateur when the shuttle brought the Black Knight Satellite back to Earth in the 80's.

Last Edited by **ZetaMax** on 08/03/2012 10:59 PM