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The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today

 
mathetes
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06/13/2009 05:28 PM

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The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Wow! A ton of Urantia threads today


Some of the WRONG information in this supposed divinely inspired book(I won't even get into the theological parts)


The described formation of the solar system (In the Urantia book)is consistent with the Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis. Though popular in the early part of the 20th century, by the early 1940s it was discarded by Henry Russell's argument that it was incompatible with the angular momentum of planets such as Jupiter


The book repeats the idea prevalent at the time of its origin that one side of the planet Mercury always faces the sun due to tidal locking. In 1965, radio astronomers discovered that Mercury actually rotates fast enough for all sides to see exposure to the sun.



The book says that a solar eclipse was predicted in 1808 by the Native American prophet Tenskwatawa. The eclipse actually was predicted in late April 1806 and occurred on June 16, 1806.

And most damning comes from Meredith Sprunger, a liberal believer in The Urantia Book and retired minister in the United Church of Christ
Quote "research has revealed that virtually all of the scientific material found in The Urantia Book was the accepted scientific knowledge of the period in which the book was written, was held by some scientists of that time, or was about to be discovered or recognized."


Matthew Block, published a paper that showed nineteen examples of The Urantia Book utilizing material published earlier. All of the source authors identified in Block's paper were published in English between 1905 and 1943 by U.S. publishers and are typically scholarly or academic works that contain concepts and wording similar to what is found in The Urantia Book. Block has since claimed to have discovered over 125 source books and articles, written by over 90 authors, which were incorporated into the Urantia papers.

Gardner and Block note that Paper 85 of the Urantia book appears to have been taken from the first eight chapters of Origin and Evolution of Religion by E. Washburn Hopkins, published by Yale University Press in 1923. Each section of the paper corresponds to a chapter in the book, with several passages possibly used as direct material.


New Religions: A Guide (2nd Edition). Oxford University Press.

Urantia: The Great Cult Mystery. Prometheus Books.


[link to www.daviddarling.info]
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:31 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
OP, have you read it?
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:32 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
yes- the little gang of cultists are running in a pack today.
i wonder if they use megaphone?
seems like
mathetes (OP)

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06/13/2009 05:36 PM

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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
OP, have you read it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 701976
Yes about 20 years ago. I found it interesting in light of the race theories presented in the book that William S. Sadler who edited the book was a ferverent Eugenics supporter
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:40 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
I also understand that the Urantia book's view on reincarnation (it doesn't exist) or after-life activity (it doesn't happen because everyone falls asleep after their life) are classic Seventh Day Adventist dogma.

Coincidentally, the 2 people most closely affiliated with the book's creation were Seventh Day Aventists. Duh, what a surprise.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:41 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
go OP
shine a light
mathetes (OP)

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06/13/2009 05:47 PM

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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
go OP
shine a light
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 699947

hf
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:53 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Fair enough, OP.

The 'Blue Book' stands or falls on it's own merits.

Knowledge is one thing, faith is another, and neither can substitute for the other.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 05:53 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
it is a conflation of the bible by cultists.
mathetes (OP)

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06/13/2009 06:00 PM

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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Fair enough, OP.

The 'Blue Book' stands or falls on it's own merits.

Knowledge is one thing, faith is another, and neither can substitute for the other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 701976

Very well said
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 06:12 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
People fill in the gaps of history with the subtext that appeals most to them.
substitute cosmology with a cult.
thinking is hard work.
most avoid it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 06:29 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
urantia is a wonderful tale simply meant to make your mind think in higher dimensions. it is an expose' of high entities that would in some form seem to be in charge of lower spiritual forms. there is really no truth in any of these spiritual books, they are really meant to change the way you think and in so doing increase the complexity of brain functions which in turn helps to grow your soul.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 06:37 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
that is a very good take on religion in general!
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2009 06:53 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
that is a very good take on religion in general!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 699947

thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 12:21 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
more urantia threads please
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 12:52 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
TY
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 12:56 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
verify
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 01:20 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
OP, thanks for outing yourself as a debunker.

All your future threads will be read with a grain of BS Flag...
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 02:35 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
TY nli
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 02:44 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
According to some Urantia believers (Candace and Urantian) Jupiter has ignited. Strange that, as no astronomers are reporting this.

Here`s a fairly recent photo of Jupiter taken on May 12th of this year: [link to www.mikesalway.com.au]
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 02:44 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
OP, thanks for outing yourself as a debunker.

All your future threads will be read with a grain of BS Flag...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 698344


As I do with the Urantia book.
Furchizedek
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06/14/2009 02:50 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Wow! A ton of Urantia threads today

Some of the WRONG information in this supposed divinely inspired book(I won't even get into the theological parts)
 Quoting: mathetes


Who told you it was "divinely inspired." ? Is that your first strawman? It doesn't say it's divinely inspired in The Urantia Book, and no Urantian that I know has ever said it was "divinely inpired," so where did you get that strawman from? Such talk is bible-Christian talk, it's what's said about the bible, and it gives you away. The Bible is a study in "wrong information," by the way.

And you can't "get into" the theological parts. Those things are a matter of faith. But if you are a Christian, you can object to some things in The Urantia Book on the basis that they are "not biblical." Is that what you mean when you say "get into the theological parts." ?

The described formation of the solar system (In the Urantia book)is consistent with the Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis. Though popular in the early part of the 20th century, by the early 1940s it was discarded by Henry Russell's argument that it was incompatible with the angular momentum of planets such as Jupiter
 Quoting: mathetes


Science discards a lot of things before they decide on THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. It doesn't mean TUB (The Urantia Book) is wrong, it just means that science is a moving target and it hasn't stopped moving yet. Seems to me that I read a story a year ago that said that science now had even newer evidence that the solar system may have started other than what their popular theory says. It's like, a few weeks ago science said that maybe an asteroid didn't kill the dinosaurs after all, as we have all been told for 50 years. Science changes.

The book repeats the idea prevalent at the time of its origin that one side of the planet Mercury always faces the sun due to tidal locking. In 1965, radio astronomers discovered that Mercury actually rotates fast enough for all sides to see exposure to the sun.
 Quoting: mathetes


It does not. That's a common misconception of a possibly deliberatly ambiguous text by the revelators. Where are you getting your information from? Some Christian site? And, are you a Christian? I'm just wondering what your real agenda is, that's all.

From TUB:
"...gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower... as is illustrated by the planet Mercury"

The book says that a solar eclipse was predicted in 1808 by the Native American prophet Tenskwatawa. The eclipse actually was predicted in late April 1806 and occurred on June 16, 1806.
 Quoting: mathetes


OH MY GOD! A TRANSCRIPTION TYPO IN THE URANTIA BOOK. OH MY GOD! IT MUST NOT BE TRUE, THERE'S A TRANSCRIPTION TYPO IN THE URANTIA BOOK. OH MY GOD. THE ECLIPSE WAS PREDICTED IN 1806 AND SOMEONE TYPED 1808! OH MY GOD.

No one has ever said that The Urantia Book is "infallible" or that it is "God's Word," or that it is "divinely inspired." We leave such for the Pope, and for bible types.

And most damning comes from Meredith Sprunger, a liberal believer in The Urantia Book and retired minister in the United Church of Christ
Quote "research has revealed that virtually all of the scientific material found in The Urantia Book was the accepted scientific knowledge of the period in which the book was written, was held by some scientists of that time, or was about to be discovered or recognized."
 Quoting: mathetes


Who knows what Sprunger is talking about? Why don't you call him up and ask him about his "damning" information? And what's "damning" about it? Do you imagine that the science in The Urantia Book should be from the year 3715? That's dumb. You're a Christian, aren't you? The conspiracy freaks and the science nut cases bring a different anti-TUB presentation than you do. You have a Christian agenda, I'd say. In any case, Sprunger is just one believer, entitled to his opinions. So what? How is it "damning" that some one believer in some book or religion has an opinion? Really, how is that "damning" exactly? I can find Christians who do not believe there is a Hell. Are they damning to other Christian believers? Do their contrary beliefs invalidate the bible?

Matthew Block, published a paper that showed nineteen examples of The Urantia Book utilizing material published earlier. All of the source authors identified in Block's paper were published in English between 1905 and 1943 by U.S. publishers and are typically scholarly or academic works that contain concepts and wording similar to what is found in The Urantia Book.
 Quoting: mathetes


So what? The revelators freely admit that they used human ideas and concepts, the better that we should be able to understand, since we are humans. Wording is certainly "similar," in the "nineteen examples" but always altered and improved, and CORRECTED. Isaac Newton had ideas. Albert Einstein improved upon them.

Block has since claimed to have discovered over 125 source books and articles, written by over 90 authors, which were incorporated into the Urantia papers.
 Quoting: mathetes


So what? Do you get that? The revelators freely admit that they used human sources and human concepts and expressions whenever possible.

Here are exerpts from their disclaimer:

"...we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented."

"...in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them..."

"...the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking."

Gardner and Block note that Paper 85 of the Urantia book appears to have been taken from the first eight chapters of Origin and Evolution of Religion by E. Washburn Hopkins, published by Yale University Press in 1923. Each section of the paper corresponds to a chapter in the book, with several passages possibly used as direct material.
 Quoting: mathetes


You seem to be operating under the idea, and inferring, that what you say above is a problem, and it's not. No, it was not "taken." It was used to make points, and to correct and amplify. Secondly, God already knows everything. So whatever Hopkins wrote that was true, God already knew it. Thus, that's the real source of all information: God. Furthermore, Gardner and Block have not much to do with each other. They are not twins and are not welded at the hip. And Gardner's book, The Great Cult Mystery is a mess. Have you read it? I doubt it. I further doubt that you have read The Urantia Book for yourself, and I suspect you are a Christian with your own agenda.

Furchizedek
Furchizedek
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06/14/2009 03:02 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
I also understand that the Urantia book's view on reincarnation (it doesn't exist) or after-life activity (it doesn't happen because everyone falls asleep after their life) are classic Seventh Day Adventist dogma.

Coincidentally, the 2 people most closely affiliated with the book's creation were Seventh Day Aventists. Duh, what a surprise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 698850


Oh my God!, The Urantia Book agrees with some existing religion about something, and the people affiliatied with the book were also former members of that existing religion. Oh my God. Oh my God, everyone has a history. And Oh my God, there are only so many limited concepts, like, "Hell exists," versus "There is no Hell." And The Urantia Book takes the BOLD step of saying one of them is true and the other is not true, and that coincides with religion "A" which also says one of them is true, and thus, The Urantia Book must have come entirely from religion "A." Oh my God.

I gotta get out of this insane asylum.

Furchizedek.
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06/14/2009 03:03 AM
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it is a steaming
Prof_Rabbit

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06/14/2009 03:06 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
According to some Urantia believers (Candace and Urantian) Jupiter has ignited. Strange that, as no astronomers are reporting this.

Here`s a fairly recent photo of Jupiter taken on May 12th of this year: [link to www.mikesalway.com.au]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664254


Cultists have an aversion to facts, and in the light of reality will spout dogma.

isnothing
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind"
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2009 03:10 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
people choose the back story they like.
some like heavenly bureaucracy
hence the urantia book
pure dogma
Furchizedek
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06/14/2009 04:17 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
OP, have you read it?
Yes about 20 years ago. I found it interesting in light of the race theories presented in the book that William S. Sadler who edited the book was a ferverent Eugenics supporter
 Quoting: mathetes


Oh My God, Dr. Sadler thought that the human race might be better off it it didn't continue to allow people to breed like rabbits and pass on every genetic disease and human dysfunction to the next generation on down for the next 10,000 years, just like we've been doing for the last 100,000 years. Oh my God, Dr. Sadler was interested in Genetics and Eugenics. Oh my God, Dr. Sadler must have be in concert with ADOLPH HITLER. Oh my God.

"Hi sweetie. You sure look nice. Do you wanna get married and have sex and have kids? What's that you say? You're a carrier of Muscular Dystrophy? Well I don't care, Baby, you're hot so let's take our chances and if we have a kid with MD, well hey, that's what God wanted anyway. And I'm sure science will have a cure by then."

And Doctor Sadler did not edit the book.

Dr. Sadler wrote, "The Papers were published just as we received them." "The contact commissioners had no editorial authority." "Our job was limited to spelling, capitalization, and punctuation." Emma Christensen, contact commissioner wrote, "The authors are all listed in the book itself..." "I can categorically assure you that no humans decided the content of the Urantia Book. The Book is as the revelators gave it to us." "The Urantia Book was not written by the Urantia Foundation. It is a revelation given to this world by superhuman personalities." "The Urantia Book was published precisely as it was given to the people of this planet. Not a word has been added or deleted." "No human scholars edited the book." Thomas Kendall, Foundation trustee wrote, "The Urantia Book is arranged and assembled exactly as revealed." "No human ever edited this material."

Furchizedek
Doctor What

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06/14/2009 04:20 AM

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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Good post, Math
union

The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
Cogburn

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06/14/2009 04:23 AM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Add this to your research.

I added it to another thread but the folks in this one seem to be able to consider actual fact.

[link to www.amazon.com]
"While you were hanging yourself
On someone else's words,
Dying to believe in what you'd heard,
I was staring straight into the shining sun."
- David Gilmour
Furchizedek
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06/14/2009 04:12 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Add this to your research.

I added it to another thread but the folks in this one seem to be able to consider actual fact.

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: Cogburn


Add this to my research? Mr. Cogburn, there is very little that I don't already know about The Urantia Book. LOL!

J.T. Manning is a pseudonym for Matthew Block. Matthew is an intrepid researcher, likes libraries and such. For many years he worked for the Urantia Brotherhood, aka, the Fellowship. Matthew discovered parallel material in the Urantia Book, parallel with some human writings. At first, everyone in the Urantia movement was shocked. Then we realized that the revelators clearly state that they used human ideas and concepts, because we would understand things better if they had been expressed by humans already. Close examination of the parallels does not show any of them to be plagiarism, they are almost always, if not always, restated, expanded, and/or corrected. Matthew Block, who is quite the scholarly type and who knows what the term means, does not call them plagiarisms. But they are parallels, to be sure. In my opinion, the title of Matthew's book is somewhat misleading. These are "source authors" only in a limited sense. They are in no way, authors of The Urantia Book. They are the authors of some human ideas that are used in The Urantia Book by the revelators, and as noted, these ideas are restated, expanded, and corrected.

You seem to be terribly angry about The Urantia Book. What's your situation? Are you a Christian? An Atheist? Where is the anger coming from? Have you read The Urantia Book?

Furchizedek
Furchizedek
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06/14/2009 04:49 PM
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Re: The URANTIA BOOK .......debunked for all the spammers today
Oh, I forgot to tell my little story. Regarding "J.T. Manning"'s book (aka Matthew Block's book), on page 60 there is a chapter on Walter E. Bundy. Block's book is copyrighted 1999, I think, but his research into parallels was known and published within the Urantia movement years earlier. I knew of it probably as early as 1980. In the early 80s I chanced to be in Seattle and we went down to the Pike Place Market area where there was a HUGE used bookstore called "Shorey's." They said they had over one million used books. I had Block's list of parallel sources and we rumaged around for a few hours looking at all the old books in the religious racks, and there were a lot of them. All of a sudden I found "The Religion of Jesus," copyright 1928, by Walter E. Bundy. Wow. I was very pleased. The price was $4 and it's inscribed and autographed by Bundy himself, August 29, 1928. Anyway, that's one of my "treasures." It was a good find and it's the only "source" book that I have.

Furchizedek


Add this to your research.

I added it to another thread but the folks in this one seem to be able to consider actual fact.

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: Cogburn

News