So lets repeat the origional question...
OK THEN DEBUNKER TARDS LETS SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS ONE.
From 2003 to 2005 I spent a lot of time in the Mojave Desert where the temperature was ofton 100 degrees plus. The air was so hot and dry that there where quite a few glider companies who towed people up, so they could ride the hot thermals all day. Hardly I think conditions that even you will agree are conductive to the -40 degree conditions that you are always going on about.
So how come there where (a) always aircraft criss crossing the sky every day laying contrails. The days always started with a nice clear sky.
(b) That soon spread out to form a day long horizon to horizon washed out blue - white haze.
Anyway here is one of my favorite Elvis videos...
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobaccos worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 713394 7/5/2009 6:09 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
And by the way,poster#mentioned,is a beleaver..............and will most certainly be in pain in many asses..CHEMTRAIL..whats next?
Nope...Sorry...Don't speak gibberish...
Is there someone else there I can talk to?
Quoting: SnakeAirlines
So I see it's personal...so be it.No defence can be offered against me,accept the fact taht im,what(right)are is it you just can'y stay away from as "gibberish-ing)idiot.And by putting me down by showing your intelligants make you feel suprior.But,as you,I have yet to see any intelligents from you.But you gramer and spelling are inpecable.Maby you should use that great judge of character and talant for the art of writting and spelling on someone else who will believe it,like 4 year olds.They are the ones who need your great skill at correcting.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 713394 7/5/2009 6:12 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
OK THEN DEBUNKER TARDS LETS SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS ONE.
From 2003 to 2005 I spent a lot of time in the Mojave Desert where the temperature was ofton 100 degrees plus. The air was so hot and dry that there where quite a few glider companies who towed people up, so they could ride the hot thermals all day. Hardly I think conditions that even you will agree are conductive to the -40 degree conditions that you are always going on about.
So how come there where (a) always aircraft criss crossing the sky every day laying contrails. The days always started with a nice clear sky.
(b) That soon spread out to form a day long horizon to horizon washed out blue - white haze.
Quoting: 9teen.47™
Depending upon the stability of the atmosphere, the lapse rate (change in temperature per 1000 feet of elevation) may vary from 3.3 degrees Fahrenheit to 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit. A good rule of thumb would be to subtract 4 degrees for each 1000 feet of elevation gained.
[link to www.sgwa.org]
So, taking an average of 4 degrees per 1,000ft, and a jet flying at 35,000ft. (also about average), 35 times 4 equals 140. You said 100 degrees on the ground, so 100 minus 140 equals -40.
Thank you, thank you, truth wins again!
Quoting: The Guy
BTW, that's -40 whether you're using Fahrenheit or Celsius.
OK THEN DEBUNKER TARDS LETS SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS ONE.
From 2003 to 2005 I spent a lot of time in the Mojave Desert where the temperature was ofton 100 degrees plus. The air was so hot and dry that there where quite a few glider companies who towed people up, so they could ride the hot thermals all day. Hardly I think conditions that even you will agree are conductive to the -40 degree conditions that you are always going on about.
So how come there where (a) always aircraft criss crossing the sky every day laying contrails. The days always started with a nice clear sky.
(b) That soon spread out to form a day long horizon to horizon washed out blue - white haze.
Depending upon the stability of the atmosphere, the lapse rate (change in temperature per 1000 feet of elevation) may vary from 3.3 degrees Fahrenheit to 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit. A good rule of thumb would be to subtract 4 degrees for each 1000 feet of elevation gained.
[link to www.sgwa.org]
So, taking an average of 4 degrees per 1,000ft, and a jet flying at 35,000ft. (also about average), 35 times 4 equals 140. You said 100 degrees on the ground, so 100 minus 140 equals -40.
Thank you, thank you, truth wins again!
BTW, that's -40 whether you're using Fahrenheit or Celsius.
Quoting: The Guy
GPOW UP....it's the delivery system thats being used.What you mean jet air craft?We all know that has never been used in any covert operations.But if the temp,is just cold enough,you can see you breath.You mean when cold air hits warm air is couses some form of condensation?Somethig you can see?WOOO makes sence,good point.I don't think you'll find much arguement there.What we want to know is,how small are the evil litte things that can dispersed in the air using condensation as a tool and a method to "poison"us.AH CLOUD SEEDING,now theres a intersting concept,just what kinda of shit can they put in those clouds?And for what end.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 691965 7/5/2009 10:30 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
Hey,I know you don't get it.
Not everyone can.
But is that any way to talk to anyone?
Yet more personal atacks and no defence.
What did you think i was going to do in response to your childish banter?
You call me a "dum ass"and ask the question,what am i on?
Is it a response you seek?
Or would you rather come up with somthing cleaver on you own?
Well,with that being said...go fuck yourself ass hole!
I bet you understood that,now didn't you.
9teen.47™ Time is short. User ID: 719190 7/6/2009 1:55 AM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
"Depending upon the stability of the atmosphere, the lapse rate (change in temperature per 1000 feet of elevation) may vary from 3.3 degrees Fahrenheit to 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit. A good rule of thumb would be to subtract 4 degrees for each 1000 feet of elevation gained."
[link to www.sgwa.org]
You provide a link to an outdoors wilderness group and some made up figures and expect me to take that seriously.
Your a friggin joke you stupid silly little man.
Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 7/6/2009 at 2:01 AM Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobaccos worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
UP User ID: 719257 7/6/2009 4:25 AM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
"Depending upon the stability of the atmosphere, the lapse rate (change in temperature per 1000 feet of elevation) may vary from 3.3 degrees Fahrenheit to 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit. A good rule of thumb would be to subtract 4 degrees for each 1000 feet of elevation gained."
[link to www.sgwa.org]
You provide a link to an outdoors wilderness group and some made up figures and expect me to take that seriously.
Given it was correct, you SHOULD HAVE.
Your a friggin joke you stupid silly little man.
Quoting: 9teen.47™
And you haven't even bothered to check. Anyone familiar with even basic meteorolgy knows those figutres to be correct.
Actually just a couple would be fine thank you... provided that they actually addressed the subject at hand. IE If the Mojave Desert, usually along with most of Southern California, AZ, NM and sometimes Texas is stuck under a massive high pressure system for weeks on end, then how come it's suitable for supersaturated air.
Eagles and vultures are soaring aloft on the thermals. Glider pilots are way up there, again because of the warm air rising. The nearest cold front is many miles away.
Also how come all this saturated air nonsense has suddenly morphed from being an "unusual event" into being an every day occurrence? You might get away with the "unusual event" a couple of times a year, but not day after day and week after week and year after year.
Sorry UP, but a few books on Meteorology for beginners do not address the question.
BTW If the aircraft criss crossing the sky are in "holding patterns" then how come they don't hang around all day?
How many links ya want:
[link to pilotsweb.com]
[link to www.mountainflying.com]
[link to daphne.palomar.edu]
[link to ocw.usu.edu]
[link to www.thebackpacker.com]
[link to earthstorm.mesonet.org]
[link to www.avsim.com]
Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 7/6/2009 at 5:29 AM Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobaccos worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
The Guy Mr. Know-it-All User ID: 683039 7/6/2009 5:41 AM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
You provide a link to an outdoors wilderness group and some made up figures and expect me to take that seriously.
Your a friggin joke you stupid silly little man.
Quoting: 9teen.47™
That was the first link I got when I searched for the numbers for thermal lapse. I figured that, if you doubted me, you'd do some searching on your own, same as I do when I doubt what you say. The numbers are accurate, and math can't lie. Not doesn't, can't.
You want to know how hot, dry air can become cold, moist air? Research "adiabatic cooling," and think about what that would mean to the relative humidity of the airmass.
9teen.47™ Time is short. User ID: 719190 7/6/2009 6:06 AM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
You want to know how hot, dry air can become cold, moist air? Research "adiabatic cooling," and think about what that would mean to the relative humidity of the airmass.
Quoting: The Guy
The Guy,
Look, if you want to make an argument about "adiabatic cooling," then fine. I would welcome the chance to crank the intellectual level of this thread up a notch. Even if is just pseudo scientific mutton dressed up as lamb.
But please, don't expect me to do your work for you. Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobaccos worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
The Guy Mr. Know-it-All User ID: 683039 7/6/2009 6:20 AM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
Look, if you want to make an argument about "adiabatic cooling," then fine. I would welcome the chance to crank the intellectual level of this thread up a notch. Even if is just pseudo scientific mutton dressed up as lamb.
But please, don't expect me to do your work for you.
Quoting: 9teen.47™
I already know this stuff. Otherwise, I wouldn't be arguing. I'd still be like, "I bet they're using chemtrails as a radar shield to hide tests of secret aircraft," like I was when I first came to this site. Then I did the research, which you seem unwilling to do.
Adiabatic cooling is what happens when a mass of air rises (like those massive thermals you mentioned). As the air rises, it expands as the atmospheric pressure decreases. As the air expands, the temperature decreases. As the air rises, the amount of water vapor is contains remains constant. Thus, as the temperature decreases, the air mass approaches its saturation point. Thus, hot, dry air becomes cold, moist air.
Hey,I know you don't get it.
Not everyone can.
But is that any way to talk to anyone?
Yet more personal atacks and no defence.
What did you think i was going to do in response to your childish banter?
You call me a "dum ass"and ask the question,what am i on?
Is it a response you seek?
Or would you rather come up with somthing cleaver on you own?
Well,with that being said...go fuck yourself ass hole!
I bet you understood that,now didn't you.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 713394
At least you finally got some sentense structure and spelling, but...
You're still speaking gibberish... I have come here to chew bubblegum, and kick ass...
The only people who believe in them are the naive and gullible.
NO SMART PERSON really believes in them. The ones who say they do are liars, trying only to mislead you for their own agendas.
Proof that you are stupid is that I have to keep telling you this and you still don't get it.
Quoting: The Guy
THE GUY SEES THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS - JOINS CHEMTRAILERS WELCOME ABOARD SAILOR
Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 7/6/2009 at 11:52 AM Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobaccos worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
The Guy Mr. Know-it-All User ID: 719350 7/6/2009 12:24 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
THE GUY SEES THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS - JOINS CHEMTRAILERS WELCOME ABOARD SAILOR
Quoting: 9teen.47™
Not quite, lol. Too many facts on my side.
I'm just 100% convinced that "GOVERNMENT SHILL" is a chemtrail believer who posts that same crap over and over again to make skeptics look bad. I tried arguing with him a few times (there are smart people who have been tricked into believing in "chemtrails," etc.), but now I'm pretty sure he really is a shill, on your side.
Quoth 1947.. > Actually just a couple would be fine thank you...
> provided that they actually addressed the subject at hand.
Every one of them, just like the first link that you did not understand, refers to a VERY well known, and VERY simple concept. I'll try to explain in little words that you might understand:
As you go up, it rapidly gets colder.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND???
Let's be very specific. Firstly - let's be clear that the numbers apply to the most populated latitudes, ie from the equator to about 50 N/S. That certainly includes all the areas being discussed to date. Also, the decrease generally only applies up to about 40,000 feet, after which other effects come into play.
No matter where you are in those latitudes, for every 1000 feet that you go up, the temperature will drop by 3-5°F, or 2-3°C. The rate may vary a little, but it is a simple fact about what happens as you ascend. Everywhere. Always. The temperature drops. QUITE QUICKLY.
Observant people notice this as they drive up mountains, and it is one of the reasons why there are many places in the world where you can be in a desert, and yet be able to look over to mountains whose peaks are covered in SNOW. Did it not ever make you wonder, when you see pictures of mountains, why the snow doesn't go all the way down to the bottom? To most folk, this is is just common sense.
Now let's deal with each of your incorrect and flawed comments, in detail.
> If the Mojave Desert, usually along with most of
> Southern California... is stuck under a massive high
> pressure system for weeks on end, then how come it's
> suitable for supersaturated air.
It is NOT supersaturated, AT GROUND LEVEL. I find it astonishing that you cannot grasp this concept - are you unable to think in 3 dimensions???? That 'massive' high pressure cell affects the lower few thousand feet, but then... Haven't you ever looked up and noticed the clouds going one way at low levels, and different way higher up? Don't you even realise that when you look up and see Cirrus clouds, you are seeing ICE CRYSTALS, no matter whether you are in a desert, or at a snow-bound ski chalet? THE WEATHER CHANGES AS YOU ASCEND.
Do the maths, it is very simple:
For every thousand feet, you lose 3-5 degrees. Let's keep it at the average rate of 3.5 degrees, to try to help your case. At ground level - let's say it is 90F.
At 1,000 ft, it will be 86F
At 10,000 ft, it will be ~55F
At 20,000 ft, it will be ~20F (that's below freezing, and well below normal cruising altitude...)
and so on.
But not only that, the humidity and dew point are changing as you ascend also.
>Eagles and vultures are soaring aloft on the thermals.
Are you suggesting those birds fly at 10,000 feet or higher? They DON'T, largely because the thermals don't go that high, and they would freeze to death - they are not as stupid as you. Do some research, it is quite rare for any similar bird to go over 3-4,000 feet.
> Glider pilots are way up there, again because
> of the warm air rising.
They are NOT 'way up there' - again, gliders normally operate under 5,000 ft, riding the LOWER LEVEL thermals.
> The nearest cold front is many miles away.
Again, that would be a GROUND LEVEL cold front, and is usually IRRELEVANT to the conditions at 20-30Kft.
> Also how come all this saturated air nonsense has suddenly
> morphed from being an "unusual event" into being an every
> day occurrence?
Oh, that's the EASIEST ONE OF ALL. They haven't suddenly appeared. Let's face it, you have already proven yourself to be a LOUSY observer. When you discovered the 'chemtrail' lunacy, you suddenly started looking up and watching. Yes, contrails have become much more common over the past twenty years, simply because of increased air traffic.
> Sorry UP, but a few books on Meteorology for beginners
> do not address the question.
Sorry, 1947, but you are failing on every advanced issue, and beginner links are all you are up to.
> BTW If the aircraft criss crossing the sky are in "holding patterns"..
SIGH. The 'criss crosses' are normally caused by multiple flights, not holding patterns (but feel free to post contrary evidence and I'm happy to look at it).
One aircraft on a route leaves a contrail, and the trail is blown by the winds (which are often strong at high altitudes).
The next plane on the same route/path leaves the next trail, and it too is blown, and then another plane....
Think about it - what pattern will appear?
If you are beneath a nav marker, or simply anywhere that there are crossing air routes sidewaysaying a trail, OF COURSE there will be a criss cross pattern of contrails.
Most holding patterns are at lower altitudes, and they would leave circular or elliptical contrails - I've not ever seen such a thing, and I suspect that you won't find much evidence of that. Oh, except for World War II footage showing high altitude dogfights...
> then how come they don't hang around all day?
But not long ago weren't you saying the 'chemtrails' DO hang around? Which side of the fence are you on? Let me repeat:
CONTRAILS, just like CLOUDS, will form and/or persist and/or develop into clouds, DEPENDING ENTIRELY ON THE ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS AT THE LEVEL IN QUESTION.
AGAIN I challenge you, 1947 (or anyone), to provide verifiable and WITNESSED (eg by Notary Public/Justice of the Peace) video/still images, showing dates and times and locations (with suitable landmarks - even road junction signs would be ok). And we in turn, will show YOU the weather conditions at that location, including temperatures, humidities and dewpoints, showing what should be happening. Come on, you keep saying you see hundreds of them. Prove just ONE isn't a contrail...
Why do you avoid that? Hell, I have two JP's as friends who would be happy to go on a loony expedition like that. Surely helping to prove this, is what you want? And if you could collect that information and PROVE that contrails should not have formed, you will have the beginning of an open and shut case. Followed up by in-situ testing, and it's all over.
UNLESS OF COURSE, YOU JUST END UP PROVING THEY ARE CONTRAILS. Which is why no-one will take the challenge.
The only people who believe in them are the naive and gullible.
NO SMART PERSON really believes in them. The ones who say they do are liars, trying only to mislead you for their own agendas.
Proof that you are stupid is that I have to keep telling you this and you still don't get it.
Quoting: The Guy
Now this I respect and why I like the Guy. He may not believe in Chemtrails, but hates people insulting others just as much as I do. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
td User ID: 587237 7/6/2009 8:11 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
Hell, I have two JP's as friends who would be happy to go on a loony expedition like that.
i've asked them loads of times to go - but they were always very busy
that night - masonic lodge , rotary-club meetings etcetc
.
Quoting: td 587237
Hilarious.
So, it's all the airport employees, all the pilots, all the support staff, ther companies that produce the chemicals, the owners of every hire aircraft, every single independent chemical testing lab, and now all jp's and notary publics - they are all paid shills.
Psychosis treatment not working?
Tinfoil hat a little tight?
OK, just for you, why don't you ask a local business person instead, you know, someone who can be verified as an upstanding sorta person. That would be fine.
What's your NEXT excuse for failure?
In fact I think we'd all happily allow just the video with verifiable landmarks - at least that would be a starting point.
So, your excuse now is.....????
Ladybug User ID: 719918 7/6/2009 10:53 PM
Re: CHEMTRAILS Outrage the Residents of Florence OR - (((SWINE FLU ANTIGENS SUSPECTED)))
Here in Hawaii, after a clear sky over 4th of July weekend, pilots must have had a few days off, they are back in the sky all day with long but fast spreading chem trails. I been watching for over a year now and notice a shorter burst that spreads faster. These were done by visible planes but they can shoot cannisters off the ocean that sink after they are emptied out.They come and go off a carrier out in the ocean. 1.They are getting everyone used to seeing them daily so that when they increase intoxicity no one will relate. 2. Thyroid problems are very prevalent here, I believe are caused by the aluminum.
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So lets repeat the origional question...
The Really Stupid Guy,:
UP,
Adiabatic cooling is what happens when a mass of air rises (like those massive thermals you mentioned). As the air rises, it expands as the atmospheric pressure decreases. As the air expands, the temperature decreases. As the air rises, the amount of water vapor is contains remains constant. Thus, as the temperature decreases, the air mass approaches its saturation point. Thus, hot, dry air becomes cold, moist air.
WELCOME ABOARD SAILOR 
