Yes, PatrikC325, like Clint Eastwood who knows about jazz and black music and does appreciate it, we need to go well back into the past in order to detect when music was still art instead of the degenerated thing it became. Exceptions confirm the rule and not the opposite.
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 8:26 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
Hannibal, Indeed I still listen to Led Zep or Plant and Page efforts (I love the mystic song Most Hight, mesmerizing)and I don't think Wolfmother is better than them. I don't think they are clones exactly, I think they use certain parts of songs of different groups (Pink Floyd-Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Led Zep and so on) in order to create something of their own which resembles several things but not actually a copy cat version. I mention them as an act of DESPERATION (maybe you're right) because everything else looked whatever EXCEPT rock and it was like a cool freeze that look like real stuff.
Winningjob says we need to study music as if only he would be the only one knowing the topic. It seems you are not understanding even simple examples. I said "I admit that, and yet when you listen all sort of music you learn to distinguish between what is art and what is crap. When someone says the tones or the chorus or the instruments remain the same, it doesn't eliminate the fact for Christ's sake. We have the same letters of alphabet and yet there's a huge bridge between Shakespeare and Herman Melville and 'Cube'."
I guess there's theory about painting too and people imagine a canvas drawn and painted by the trunk of an elephant or an ape is also "art" and will try to compare that with Dali' or Renaissence art. Of course there will be defenders of rap and hip hop and I say unto you if that is art it's just a reflection of people with poor taste. What else, Mr. Winningjob is capable to listen and appreciate I wonder? I mean, at least to compare and have a sort of rule in order to measure what is art? If in the time of Flinstones people were using flutes and this black fuckers of their own moms haven't used that instrument it's maybe because THEY CAN'T PLAY A FUCKING THING except the "skill" to use an already recorded disc, right? I mean, even African or North American indian TRIBAL songs seem to be more sophisticated or with more soul than that hip hop & rap piece of crap!
Ok, friend when did I say was the "ONLY ONE KNOWING THE TOPIC"? Are you putting words in my mouth? I think so. Yes, you and all should study and learn as much as possible and not just in music, but languages, science, religion, and many other areas. ART..itself is subjective, but the concepts of what is in many fields that works remains the same..doesn't matter what field..there are things that EVERYONE agrees on and then the rest is sujbective.
You seem to be "STUCK" on one idiom of art..which shows that not only did you miss what I was saying, but need to meet those in things you like and dislike before you open your mouth and appraise or trash that in which you can not understand, appreciate or condemn.
You mention letters and language and difference..maybe you could spend more time understanding communication and the beauty of the people doing so instead of telling everyone they have like or not like something. Certainly, you didn't see me telling others someone "HAS" to like or dislike something..but you feel it needs to be your way.
THE FUCKED up thing is, if you brought me a box and could not talk, dance, write or sing, but could show me something with your box I would consider you communicating and possibly artistic..you fail to see that and put words in my mouth instead.
Quoting: Winningjob
Can you honestly pick a time in HUMAN history where communication was not important? Where words, or music or dance had no value in any fucking culture? NO. SO, though times change, values change and ways of communicating it is relative to each society be it painting, music, dance, written language..and in each case there are certain standards that work to produce that communication that may or may not be "ART". Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
The thing is..it doesn't matter what the communication is..it is relative to the society, the people or the time whether "WE" like it or not. It captures part of society around the world be it in painting, plays, acting, literature, music or dance. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
Winningjob says we need to study music as if only he would be the only one knowing the topic. It seems you are not understanding even simple examples. I said "I admit that, and yet when you listen all sort of music you learn to distinguish between what is art and what is crap. When someone says the tones or the chorus or the instruments remain the same, it doesn't eliminate the fact for Christ's sake. We have the same letters of alphabet and yet there's a huge bridge between Shakespeare and Herman Melville and 'Cube'."
I guess there's theory about painting too and people imagine a canvas drawn and painted by the trunk of an elephant or an ape is also "art" and will try to compare that with Dali' or Renaissence art. Of course there will be defenders of rap and hip hop and I say unto you if that is art it's just a reflection of people with poor taste. What else, Mr. Winningjob is capable to listen and appreciate I wonder? I mean, at least to compare and have a sort of rule in order to measure what is art? If in the time of Flinstones people were using flutes and this black fuckers of their own moms haven't used that instrument it's maybe because THEY CAN'T PLAY A FUCKING THING except the "skill" to use an already recorded disc, right? I mean, even African or North American indian TRIBAL songs seem to be more sophisticated or with more soul than that hip hop & rap piece of crap!
Quoting: inca=chinitial 713006
Ok, friend when did I say was the "ONLY ONE KNOWING THE TOPIC"? Are you putting words in my mouth? I think so. Yes, you and all should study and learn as much as possible and not just in music, but languages, science, religion, and many other areas. ART..itself is subjective, but the concepts of what is in many fields that works remains the same..doesn't matter what field..there are things that EVERYONE agrees on and then the rest is sujbective.
You seem to be "STUCK" on one idiom of art..which shows that not only did you miss what I was saying, but need to meet those in things you like and dislike before you open your mouth and appraise or trash that in which you can not understand, appreciate or condemn.
You mention letters and language and difference..maybe you could spend more time understanding communication and the beauty of the people doing so instead of telling everyone they have like or not like something. Certainly, you didn't see me telling others someone "HAS" to like or dislike something..but you feel it needs to be your way.
THE FUCKED up thing is, if you brought me a box and could not talk, dance, write or sing, but could show me something with your box I would consider you communicating and possibly artistic..you fail to see that and put words in my mouth instead. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 8:31 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
Well, now you're making yourself understood. I reckon since the beginning they are communicating yes for sure. I say that music is a SHOUTING or a YELL sort of thing. Black people saying "I'm not invisible, I'm using women to make a life and I got $$$$$$$ being bad ass wearing clothes like a parrot would be because thats the only capable way I have to express myself". That's the communication. Thanks for confirming my own opinion. Now, that is not music, it's just an expressionism street language jive. That's the very topic of this thread in case you miss it.
Hannibal, check this:
[link to www.youtube.com]
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 8:34 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
Nop! I'm not stucked up on anything in particular unless you were uncapable to understand me or jumped paragraphs in order to reply. I mentioned all sort of music and different kind of art in these 3 pages, from Arabian culture to Irish and indians or Japanese (I even mentioned Kitaro I think). I'm developing the ideas and comparisons you failed to understand. Hence, I won't bother to keep on repeating myself with you.
You keep speaking of ART though..yet nothing has changed...Having studied Classical Music, Jazz and Modern Arranging I see very little changes....what new chords are there..or chord progressions...harmony..art..no...still the same...different layers, different ways of communicating a message, but nothing has changed. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
Hannibal, Indeed I still listen to Led Zep or Plant and Page efforts (I love the mystic song Most Hight, mesmerizing)and I don't think Wolfmother is better than them. I don't think they are clones exactly, I think they use certain parts of songs of different groups (Pink Floyd-Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Led Zep and so on) in order to create something of their own which resembles several things but not actually a copy cat version. I mention them as an act of DESPERATION (maybe you're right) because everything else looked whatever EXCEPT rock and it was like a cool freeze that look like real stuff.
Quoting: inca=chinitial 713006
Wolfmother have talent, i just dont think they are original, they are not a bad band, i like some of the music, its just as a musician myself i tend to think they have more so ripped off other bands as opposed to having been influenced.
My problem with them is these teenagers who think they are the next best thing, and have never actually sat and listened to led zep 4, or dark side of the moon, or the court of the crimson king, or revolver. There is NO PROFIT IN PEACE, There is NO PROPHET IN PEACE.
Resident GLP Religion HATER and PROUD Atheist.
Carl Sagan "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
I think you have problems in communication in spite of your studies. If there are different forms of communication the things can't be the same unless you want me to say the ancient Egyptians did hip hop and rap. As a matter of fact NOT, their music and Sumerians were very sophisticated even with more strings in the harps. Wanna listen the tone in the Great Pyramid?
Well, I have worked with musicians from places such as Mesopotamia to China to India to Ireland to the U.S. to Spanish influence and the thing is...none of them sit around "TELLING" others what "SHOULD" be acceptable and what is not..they do not say this is good and this is bad. "THEY" do not judge. They do not care if you like new world or polka..only if you are able to free your mind.
Unlike FORCING opinions OP, they only want a chance to be heard and for all to experience others. Years ago I would hear about people saying this is new or this is not..and really none of it was. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
I think you have problems in communication in spite of your studies. If there are different forms of communication the things can't be the same unless you want me to say the ancient Egyptians did hip hop and rap. As a matter of fact NOT, their music and Sumerians were very sophisticated even with more strings in the harps. Wanna listen the tone in the Great Pyramid?
Quoting: inca=chinitial 713006
I don't have communication problems, I just don't appreciate people trying to "TELL" others what is right, what is wrong and what is good or bad..and that is the way you are coming across..not your fault..but at least now you know what you are doing. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
The thing is OP, if you REALLY loved humanity, loved "ART" or music or communication forms you wouldn't spend so much time CONDEMNING people, but trying to bring them together....yeah, it can be a little work, but it is worth it.
Spend less time finding problems with people, communication forms, ART or society and more time finding the common things....I know you can and you know you can.
I tell ya' it's tough to have a decent and intelligent dialogue with people who love generalizations. During 3 pages I have quoted all sort of music and not just rock, I listen to Japanese music, Irish music, Reggae, I mentioned Boney M, Arabian music, Gregorian chants, I have Jewish sephardit music as well sang in ancient Spanish, I can listen to Spanish Gypsy Kings. I have tried to really listen to Chinese opera LIVE, classical opera and the Great Masters from different times, progressive music or Sting and Peter Gabriel who are avant garde performers. I've watched Santana live as well and mentioned his latino and negro sources or inspiration. Yet, you are just trying to make a defense of hip hop and rap but in spite of your knowledge you say you have, you haven't mentioned a single thing that you like besides that CRAP. As a matter of fcat you have not said which is your favorite rap, hip hop band, shall you? Indulge us all, the rest of readers.
Communication that bring the people together..oh yes. Perhaps you haven't read the opinion of people BESIDES my own admitting hip hop and rap performers are GROSS and they don't bring people to togetherness. John Lennon did, not that.
I tell ya' it's tough to have a decent and intelligent dialogue with people who love generalizations. During 3 pages I have quoted all sort of music and not just rock, I listen to Japanese music, Irish music, Reggae, I mentioned Boney M, Arabian music, Gregorian chants, I have Jewish sephardit music as well sang in ancient Spanish, I can listen to Spanish Gypsy Kings. I have tried to really listen to Chinese opera LIVE, classical opera and the Great Masters from different times, progressive music or Sting and Peter Gabriel who are avant garde performers. I've watched Santana live as well and mentioned his latino and negro sources or inspiration. Yet, you are just trying to make a defense of hip hop and rap but in spite of your knowledge you say you have, you haven't mentioned a single thing that you like besides that CRAP. As a matter of fcat you have not said which is your favorite rap, hip hop band, shall you? Indulge us all, the rest of readers.
Quoting: inca=chinitial 713006
See...did you even read the post previous to your response? NO...you are being and ass. I never said I liked RAP or Hip HOP or Polka, now did I? You have a habit of putting words in people's mouths.
GO BACK and read what I said you selfish ass...do something with all kinds of music and stop trying to insult others or fuck away your gift..your choice. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
Anonymous Coward User ID: 704050 6/27/2009 8:55 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
The thing is OP, if you REALLY loved humanity, loved "ART" or music or communication forms you wouldn't spend so much time CONDEMNING people, but trying to bring them together....yeah, it can be a little work, but it is worth it.
Spend less time finding problems with people, communication forms, ART or society and more time finding the common things....I know you can and you know you can.
Quoting: Winningjob
This is all I need to say OP..no need to repeat it with other words meaning the same...fucking do something instead of bitching or hate humans your choice..someday you will see that you can love even those that like or do not like things similar to you..that speak or look similar to you or different to you and you can share your gifts with them..until then...continue to build your wall. Search For ANYONE In America..Its Free!
[link to www.peopleseekdirect.com]
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 9:00 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
Oannes, god-fish, when you post that video PETE PHILLY & PERQUISITE - MYSTERY REPEATS , the only thing I see it's not a repeated mystery, but once again a repeated scheme: someone who is staring at the camera with the same gestures and unstoppable "rythm". I see no difference at all. No melody. The only thing that changes is the "dialogue". I saw and listened to that back in the 60's with a Jewish guy. His name is Bob Dylan. His lyrics were and still are smarter and in spite of the fact he's not my favorite, I reckon there was more variability. Yet, he's only one. I prefer the joining of several people creating art instead of a bunch of people dancing to make believe they are singing.
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 9:02 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
I can love people and that doesn't justify me to say what they are doing is art. Don't confuse the terms. It's they the ones who are filled to the top with hatred and wrath mainly against themselves. In think in your study of music nobody taught you to read the messages of the lyrics. Once again it's about statistics.
Op, with all my love I say again: Either you are going to do something to bring many together from different tastes and backgrounds or you are not..simple. Hopefully, you chose to show your love and not dislike toward anyone.
What is real and what is shown on tv are polar opposites. People have battled with words since ancient times. The scots may have been the first to formalize the mc battle. Op have you ever tried to rock a mike or beat juggle? Beatmatching, cutting and scratching require rhythm and musicality. Have you ever heard someone spit something live that they never wrote down, real freestyle rapping? It can blow your mind if you have the attention span to listen. Granola Funk Express do it all, plus their political views probably resonate with genuine glpers. Check it out:
inca=chinitial User ID: 713006 6/27/2009 9:11 AM
Re: There was once music 'til hip hop , rap and all that shit hit the fun
Talking about Dylan along with others (George Harrison, Jeff Lyne, Tom Petty, etc):
[link to www.youtube.com]
Yap, I have tried to split bits of music and 'sample'. It ain't easy but you don't have to be a musical master like Jon Lord from Deep Purple or Rick Wakeman. Of course, I can hit a stone against the floor with some rythm and that doesn't turn me into an excellent musician playing music. Wanna discuss about history?
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