| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 | this idiot believes we never went to the moon
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/3/2009 10:06 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Manned space flight has never crossed through the van allen belt, except, of course, the ever astounding Apollo Missions.
The Van Allen Belt is about 1000 miles above the earth.
The moon is about 380,000 miles above the Earth.
I am too stupid to calculate what % 1000 is of 385,000
Please help me. Because I keep coming up with 70%...
just like you say.
Wow....it's great everone bounces off our mirror placed their by the very hands of the brave brave men....do they also bounce off the one left by the unmanned flight with the Russian robot?
Nah...that's just not as cool..... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717364
Well, actually, the ISS passes through a bulge of the lower belt. But you did say "passed through" so I'll give that a pass.
And for the Soviet LRRR pair? Carried on the...what was the name of the craft, the Lunokhod I think? One deployed right, the other was seen briefly prior to deployment but never thereafter and no-one's quite sure went wrong.
Which is a way of saying; yeah, people have bounced lasers off the one and tried to bounce off the other. The Soviet LRRR was small and it wasn't aimed very well, tho. So you can hit it, but most of the good science is done on the American ones -- particularly the big one (Apollo 17's I think, but I don't remember).
But the other? Yes, it was a trick answer. You are doing the math right, but on the wrong assumptions. What you are doing is a bit like trying to figure out how far a car trip is by looking at the highest speed reached.
As an approximation, it gives plausible answers over part of the range. If you are just going down the driveway, you don't top ten MPH. Driving a few blocks, you probably are rolling mostly on city streets; hitting a top of maybe 35. Driving across town, you switch to main streets with timed lights and might hit as high as 50. And when you get into journeys over ten miles, you are almost certainly on a highway. But the mistake is in thinking that you can then mathematically relate speed with distance. Your math fails the moment you look at a weekend trip. Although you might travel 200 miles, you still don't get significantly over 70.
I wasn't intending to make the above an analogy when I wrote it, but it sort of works. Highway speed is low Earth orbit. The difference between a craft that can't make orbit, and one that can, is pretty much the difference between what is freeway rated, and all the bicycles, powered skateboards, go-carts and so forth that aren't.
The point being, once you make it to orbit the rest of the solar system is a much easier reach.
At this point, I should have given you a way to understand why I said "70 percent." But as an additional clue; 0.694 was the number that actually fell out of my calculator. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 717725
7/3/2009 11:23 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Manned space flight has never crossed through the van allen belt, except, of course, the ever astounding Apollo Missions.
The Van Allen Belt is about 1000 miles above the earth.
The moon is about 380,000 miles above the Earth.
I am too stupid to calculate what % 1000 is of 385,000
Please help me. Because I keep coming up with 70%...
just like you say.
Wow....it's great everone bounces off our mirror placed their by the very hands of the brave brave men....do they also bounce off the one left by the unmanned flight with the Russian robot?
Nah...that's just not as cool.....
Well, actually, the ISS passes through a bulge of the lower belt. But you did say "passed through" so I'll give that a pass.
And for the Soviet LRRR pair? Carried on the...what was the name of the craft, the Lunokhod I think? One deployed right, the other was seen briefly prior to deployment but never thereafter and no-one's quite sure went wrong.
Which is a way of saying; yeah, people have bounced lasers off the one and tried to bounce off the other. The Soviet LRRR was small and it wasn't aimed very well, tho. So you can hit it, but most of the good science is done on the American ones -- particularly the big one (Apollo 17's I think, but I don't remember).
But the other? Yes, it was a trick answer. You are doing the math right, but on the wrong assumptions. What you are doing is a bit like trying to figure out how far a car trip is by looking at the highest speed reached.
As an approximation, it gives plausible answers over part of the range. If you are just going down the driveway, you don't top ten MPH. Driving a few blocks, you probably are rolling mostly on city streets; hitting a top of maybe 35. Driving across town, you switch to main streets with timed lights and might hit as high as 50. And when you get into journeys over ten miles, you are almost certainly on a highway. But the mistake is in thinking that you can then mathematically relate speed with distance. Your math fails the moment you look at a weekend trip. Although you might travel 200 miles, you still don't get significantly over 70.
I wasn't intending to make the above an analogy when I wrote it, but it sort of works. Highway speed is low Earth orbit. The difference between a craft that can't make orbit, and one that can, is pretty much the difference between what is freeway rated, and all the bicycles, powered skateboards, go-carts and so forth that aren't.
The point being, once you make it to orbit the rest of the solar system is a much easier reach.
At this point, I should have given you a way to understand why I said "70 percent." But as an additional clue; 0.694 was the number that actually fell out of my calculator. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
It "fell out of your computor" hey?....humm....
some computer...I've heard of these problems when I used to teach. Now the dog no longer eats it...the computer does something...oh well.
so 1000 miles is only 69% of 385,000 miles...
ok now it all becomes perfectly clear...
especially when you add in the velocity factor...
the faster you travel, the closer it gets....and that is why 1000 miles can also be 69% of 385,000 miles.
Some people think that 1000 miles is actually quite a bit less than 1% of 385,000 miles. They must not know the nifty tricks about velocity that you do.
Even so, say that the only manned space vehicles to go further than 1000 miles were in fact the Apollo missions of 40 years ago...That doesn't mean it didn't happen, now does it?
Especially considering they left a nifty mirror up there that everyone uses along with the one that the Russian unmanned craft left there....
We'll be returning shortly, very shortly.
in the next 500 years or so.... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/3/2009 11:29 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
We'll be returning shortly, very shortly.
in the next 500 years or so.... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717725
 Wake me up in 500 years, when someone actually makes it to the moon for real will ya,
|
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/3/2009 11:47 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
so 1000 miles is only 69% of 385,000 miles...
ok now it all becomes perfectly clear...
especially when you add in the velocity factor...
the faster you travel, the closer it gets....and that is why 1000 miles can also be 69% of 385,000 miles.
Some people think that 1000 miles is actually quite a bit less than 1% of 385,000 miles. They must not know the nifty tricks about velocity that you do.
Even so, say that the only manned space vehicles to go further than 1000 miles were in fact the Apollo missions of 40 years ago...That doesn't mean it didn't happen, now does it?
Especially considering they left a nifty mirror up there that everyone uses along with the one that the Russian unmanned craft left there....
We'll be returning shortly, very shortly.
in the next 500 years or so.... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717725
Heh. Nope, still missing it.
Please, fellows, don't spoil it yet...but I know there are several other people on this thread who know what I mean by saying LEO is 70% of the way to the Moon, and can probably duplicate my math in it as well. As well as, you know, agree with the statement! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/3/2009 11:56 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
so 1000 miles is only 69% of 385,000 miles...
ok now it all becomes perfectly clear...
especially when you add in the velocity factor...
the faster you travel, the closer it gets....and that is why 1000 miles can also be 69% of 385,000 miles.
Some people think that 1000 miles is actually quite a bit less than 1% of 385,000 miles. They must not know the nifty tricks about velocity that you do.
Even so, say that the only manned space vehicles to go further than 1000 miles were in fact the Apollo missions of 40 years ago...That doesn't mean it didn't happen, now does it?
Especially considering they left a nifty mirror up there that everyone uses along with the one that the Russian unmanned craft left there....
We'll be returning shortly, very shortly.
in the next 500 years or so....
Heh. Nope, still missing it.
Please, fellows, don't spoil it yet...but I know there are several other people on this thread who know what I mean by saying LEO is 70% of the way to the Moon, and can probably duplicate my math in it as well. As well as, you know, agree with the statement! Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
nomuse Uranus is only one one arm reach away from your mouth
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 717725
7/4/2009 12:00 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
so 1000 miles is only 69% of 385,000 miles...
ok now it all becomes perfectly clear...
especially when you add in the velocity factor...
the faster you travel, the closer it gets....and that is why 1000 miles can also be 69% of 385,000 miles.
Some people think that 1000 miles is actually quite a bit less than 1% of 385,000 miles. They must not know the nifty tricks about velocity that you do.
Even so, say that the only manned space vehicles to go further than 1000 miles were in fact the Apollo missions of 40 years ago...That doesn't mean it didn't happen, now does it?
Especially considering they left a nifty mirror up there that everyone uses along with the one that the Russian unmanned craft left there....
We'll be returning shortly, very shortly.
in the next 500 years or so....
Heh. Nope, still missing it.
Please, fellows, don't spoil it yet...but I know there are several other people on this thread who know what I mean by saying LEO is 70% of the way to the Moon, and can probably duplicate my math in it as well. As well as, you know, agree with the statement! Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA...
No matter how you cut it...if we had a model of the moon and earth before us and in this model the moon was 10 feet away from the earth,
Every successful manned space mission with the exception of the Apollo missions would be pictured as traveling in a radius of no more than one inch from the model of the earth...
This is like comparing the jump of a flea with that of a jumper in an olympic competition...
This discussion is certainly important as we all know the next flight to the moon is leaving soon despite that no one has even gone 1% of that distance in the last 35 years.
ALL ABOARD! |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 12:10 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA...
No matter how you cut it...if we had a model of the moon and earth before us and in this model the moon was 10 feet away from the earth,
Every successful manned space mission with the exception of the Apollo missions would be pictured as traveling in a radius of no more than one inch from the model of the earth...
This is like comparing the jump of a flea with that of a jumper in an olympic competition...
This discussion is certainly important as we all know the next flight to the moon is leaving soon despite that no one has even gone 1% of that distance in the last 35 years.
ALL ABOARD! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717725
Don't belabor your misunderstanding -- fix it by learning something! It is so close! A few minutes reading and you'd understand what I said, and MUCH more importantly, realize why it matters.
You are like a guy buying a computer, saying "I want a big one, 'cause they are faster." Or waiting on a bus, "I want one of those articulated ones, because they travel further." You are using, in short, the wrong yardstick for space travel. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 12:11 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA...
No matter how you cut it...if we had a model of the moon and earth before us and in this model the moon was 10 feet away from the earth,
Every successful manned space mission with the exception of the Apollo missions would be pictured as traveling in a radius of no more than one inch from the model of the earth...
This is like comparing the jump of a flea with that of a jumper in an olympic competition...
This discussion is certainly important as we all know the next flight to the moon is leaving soon despite that no one has even gone 1% of that distance in the last 35 years.
ALL ABOARD! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717725
You know I'm actually moving to the belief that rocket propulsion does not actually work in the vacuum of space. Even though they say the space shuttle is in the vacuum of space, there are suspicions that there is actually still some form of thin atmosphere around the shuttles, and that is why they still can maneuver with small retro rocket firings.
I'm beginning to believe that part of the NASA/space lie is that Newton's laws of physics do not work the way we are told they do in the vacuum of deep space.
We have all been lied to so much by NASA and the so-called authorities on space, it is very hard to discover the truth of space reality.
"The whole "space flight" is an "atmosphere flight". The word "space flight" is a lie, because until now not one single human has been in space."
[link to www.geschichteinchronologie.ch] |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 12:12 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
And why is this, that I've looked up several dozen things, read several pdfs, done a couple simple calculations, and viewed all the videos and pictures presented to me....
But the hoax believers, secure in their ignorance, have felt no need to learn a single damned thing, ever. All the do is repost and repost exactly what they first came on to the forum saying.
Who has the open mind? Who is the sheep? Who is thinking about the question, and who is blindly accepting someone else's answer? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 12:13 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Don't belabor your misunderstanding -- fix it by learning something! It is so close! A few minutes reading and you'd understand what I said, and MUCH more importantly, realize why it matters.
You are like a guy buying a computer, saying "I want a big one, 'cause they are faster." Or waiting on a bus, "I want one of those articulated ones, because they travel further." You are using, in short, the wrong yardstick for space travel. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Bash your chest much do ya,
 |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 717725
7/4/2009 12:16 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Of course I am...distance isn't distance...it's something entirely different...when you
measured it out the special NASA way...
when we earthlings leave our gravitational field a magnetic warp takes place and folds distance into another dimension so that even though astronauts on the Apollo missions were traveling 385,000 miles up to the moon it seemed to them as if they were traveling to a simulation studio in Virginia..in fact you can even calculate these warps and wormholes into the equations.
Outer space is very magical in that way...it also causes stars to disappear and not show up on any photos taken during these amazing trips... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 717725
7/4/2009 12:18 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA...
No matter how you cut it...if we had a model of the moon and earth before us and in this model the moon was 10 feet away from the earth,
Every successful manned space mission with the exception of the Apollo missions would be pictured as traveling in a radius of no more than one inch from the model of the earth...
This is like comparing the jump of a flea with that of a jumper in an olympic competition...
This discussion is certainly important as we all know the next flight to the moon is leaving soon despite that no one has even gone 1% of that distance in the last 35 years.
ALL ABOARD!
You know I'm actually moving to the belief that rocket propulsion does not actually work in the vacuum of space. Even though they say the space shuttle is in the vacuum of space, there are suspicions that there is actually still some form of thin atmosphere around the shuttles, and that is why they still can maneuver with small retro rocket firings.
I'm beginning to believe that part of the NASA/space lie is that Newton's laws of physics do not work the way we are told they do in the vacuum of deep space.
We have all been lied to so much by NASA and the so-called authorities on space, it is very hard to discover the truth of space reality.
"The whole "space flight" is an "atmosphere flight". The word "space flight" is a lie, because until now not one single human has been in space."
[ link to www.geschichteinchronologie.ch]
bad link can you cut and paste? |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 12:18 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
You know I'm actually moving to the belief that rocket propulsion does not actually work in the vacuum of space. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 439828
There is a god. I didn't even dare hope.
There is, they do, and there's no connection. The Space Shuttle Orbiter is a good one, though; it actually has control surfaces in addition to OMS (and the SSME's are on gimbals).
[quote:Anonymous Coward 439828
I'm beginning to believe that part of the NASA/space lie is that Newton's laws of physics do not work the way we are told they do in the vacuum of deep space. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 439828
Even though they say the space shuttle is in the vacuum of space, there are suspicions that there is actually still some form of thin atmosphere around the shuttles, and that is why they still can maneuver with small retro rocket firings.
[/quote
Cool.
But if you have an investigative bent, the next step would be to find out. What experiments can you design to prove or disprove that thrust requires air/does not take place in vacuum? Alternatively, can you reason out from basic physical principles how thrust against air would or would not work? (Hint; how much does a Saturn V weigh? How much does air weigh?) |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 12:20 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Bash your chest much do ya, Quoting: Anonymous Coward 439828
Nay.
I LIKE this stuff. That's why I talk about it. I think other people might like it too, so I share in the same way I'd pass on a great restaurant I'd discovered, or a new flavor of ice cream I'd tried.
And when a basic understanding of orbital mechanics is just a couple of clicks away.... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 12:22 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA...
No matter how you cut it...if we had a model of the moon and earth before us and in this model the moon was 10 feet away from the earth,
Every successful manned space mission with the exception of the Apollo missions would be pictured as traveling in a radius of no more than one inch from the model of the earth...
This is like comparing the jump of a flea with that of a jumper in an olympic competition...
This discussion is certainly important as we all know the next flight to the moon is leaving soon despite that no one has even gone 1% of that distance in the last 35 years.
ALL ABOARD!
You know I'm actually moving to the belief that rocket propulsion does not actually work in the vacuum of space. Even though they say the space shuttle is in the vacuum of space, there are suspicions that there is actually still some form of thin atmosphere around the shuttles, and that is why they still can maneuver with small retro rocket firings.
I'm beginning to believe that part of the NASA/space lie is that Newton's laws of physics do not work the way we are told they do in the vacuum of deep space.
We have all been lied to so much by NASA and the so-called authorities on space, it is very hard to discover the truth of space reality.
"The whole "space flight" is an "atmosphere flight". The word "space flight" is a lie, because until now not one single human has been in space."
[ link to www.geschichteinchronologie.ch]
bad link can you cut and paste?
So says you arse-hole, blow it up your rectum.
  |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 12:25 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
But if you have an investigative bent, the next step would be to find out. What experiments can you design to prove or disprove that thrust requires air/does not take place in vacuum? Alternatively, can you reason out from basic physical principles how thrust against air would or would not work? (Hint; how much does a Saturn V weigh? How much does air weigh?) Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Your assuming that the particular properties of deep space can be replicated here on earth, and that it is a true and honest representation of space reality.
We cannot trust NASA or any other space body to tell us the truth, so we are in a Catch-22 presently.
go fuck yourself nomuse, |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 12:41 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Your assuming that the particular properties of deep space can be replicated here on earth, Quoting: Anonymous Coward 439828
Nope. Any half-competent engineer knows how to divide and conquer. You solve for factors you can't remove; you put them on both sides of the equation. You don't have to exactly replicate the space environment in order to test principles that should hold true in the space environment.
and that it is a true and honest representation of space reality.
We cannot trust NASA or any other space body to tell us the truth, so we are in a Catch-22 presently. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 439828
NASA is lying about space? Oh, really? How did a Johnny-come-lately, American agency manage to control all that could be learned about the physical world?
I mean...start with the simplest crap of all. Is NASA the only place you can learn what happens in a vacuum? Do you think no-one has vacuum pumps on Earth? Heck...I once worked as a mail delivery boy at a company where entire assembly line were in hard vacuum (really hard vacuum; they had cryo-pumps on some sections!)
And do you think there was never vacuum in a lab until 1960? Oh really? 17th century, they were creating vacuum in the lab. (Heck, Aristotle theorized about it!) Check this out; [link to drnorth.files.wordpress.com]
But I do have to say you are not alone. Time Magazine once said in an editorial that Goddard was an idiot and a rocket wouldn't work in a vacuum. It actually does take a little thought to understand how action/reaction works; it isn't intuitive. You actually have to work at it. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 12:43 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
nomuse on a lucky score day----->  |
| Innocentwolf15
User ID: 549832
7/4/2009 12:48 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Bash your chest much do ya,
Nay.
I LIKE this stuff. That's why I talk about it. I think other people might like it too, so I share in the same way I'd pass on a great restaurant I'd discovered, or a new flavor of ice cream I'd tried.
And when a basic understanding of orbital mechanics is just a couple of clicks away.... Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Shut the Fuck up!...Your analogies are I don't know...but you make me want to slap the everloving shit out of you.Oh look at it this way...but look at it this way...etc...your a worthless POS NOMUSE!...A FREAKING NASA SHILL!...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!! |
| the dude
User ID: 668848
7/4/2009 12:55 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
He's right. I never went to the moon, though there was this one time that I'm still not quite sure about. |
| nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/4/2009 1:07 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Shut the Fuck up!...Your analogies are I don't know...but you make me want to slap the everloving shit out of you.Oh look at it this way...but look at it this way...etc...your a worthless POS NOMUSE!...A FREAKING NASA SHILL!...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!! Quoting: Innocentwolf15 549832
Someone sure got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!
I feel like that before my first coffee, wolf. Dunno what your tipple is but I hope you get to it soon. That sort of anger can't be good for your health. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 439828
7/4/2009 1:10 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Shut the Fuck up!...Your analogies are I don't know...but you make me want to slap the everloving shit out of you.Oh look at it this way...but look at it this way...etc...your a worthless POS NOMUSE!...A FREAKING NASA SHILL!...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!
Someone sure got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!
I feel like that before my first coffee, wolf. Dunno what your tipple is but I hope you get to it soon. That sort of anger can't be good for your health. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
You fuckin stupid prat, out of all the convoluted arse-holes on GLP, you take the cake. By God, dear I say it, your even worst than Mat Marriot, if that was even possible. |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 6:53 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Two they are paranoid, fear driven individuals. Quoting: FubarMan
Sorry, you flunk. You must re-take Psychology 101.
The distinguishing feature of paranoia is that the paranoid sees himself as a central figure in the drama:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
---
An important feature of paranoid thinking is its centrality: that the paranoid person perceives themselves as central figures in an experienced scenario which may be either dangerous (persecutory) or self-exalting (grandiose) and interprets events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them.
---
In contrast, the belief that most rich and powerful people are evil is a distinguishing characteristic of the Christian religion:
[link to en.wikipedia.org] |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 11:33 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Is NASA the only place you can learn what happens in a vacuum? Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Are you claiming that the Apollo astronauts specifically practiced changing camera film and lenses inside a pressurized spacesuit surrounded by a vacuum? If so, please show us the evidence. |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 11:49 AM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Any half-competent engineer knows how to divide and conquer. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Yes, a half-competent engineer who has no concern for human life briefly tests some individual components, then says, "Good enough for government work."
A fully competent engineer who cares about human life would never release a life-critical system for use without a full system test, to ensure that every component works in its actual configuration and environment and especially to ensure that all components work together correctly to achieve human safety.
Let's put this in Apollo terms. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Apollo astronauts have already successfully orbited the moon. Let's also assume, for the sake of argument, that Apollo has already landed robots on the moon and returned them successfully to earth. The next engineering question would be whether an animal could survive the lunar environment; so the next logical test would be to land a primate on the moon and return him safely to earth.
No sane, ethical engineer would agree to attempt a human landing on the moon without a full system test on an animal first. Any engineer who claims to have participated in such a project is either lying or reckless. In either case he is unfit for his profession. |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 12:15 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Let's also assume, for the sake of argument, that Apollo has already landed robots on the moon and returned them successfully to earth. Quoting: Skeptic the First 716362
As far as I can find, the only (allegedly) successful robotic lunar land-and-return missions have been the Soviet Luna missions 16, 20, 24:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
---
Perhaps one of the most significant advances in sample return missions occurred in 1970 when the robotic Soviet mission known as Luna 16, successfully returned 101 grams of lunar soil. Likewise, Luna 20 returned 30 grams in 1974 and Luna 24 returned 170.1 grams in 1976.
---
If these Luna missions are genuine, and if the Apollo landings are not, then the United States has never successfully landed an object on the moon and then returned it to earth, whereas the Soviet Union has.
The most important point for this thread, though, is that apparently NASA does not even claim to have successfully completed a lunar land-and-return prior to Apollo 11. This makes Apollo 11 itself look even more ridiculous (if false) or shockingly reckless (if true). Clearly, the gods of Apollo should have been prosecuted for depraved indifference:
[link to definitions.uslegal.com]
---
To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
--- |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 12:34 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
You have proposed that one understood process can be mimicked closely enough to fool experts in that process and its results. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
The only experts in hydrogen bomb explosions work for a few countries' militaries, and they are not allowed to speak freely. Nor would they want to--they have drunk the Kool-Aid.
There are no indisputable experts in lunar geology, because we have no indisputable lunar samples to study. Surely you don't believe the circular argument that experts acquired their expertise by studying Apollo's "moon rocks," and those "moon rocks" are authentic lunar samples because the experts say so? |
| Skeptic the First
User ID: 716362
7/4/2009 12:51 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
The point being, you can't divorce one science from the rest of science, and make up crap in it. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Of course you can, and scientists do it all the time.
If funders demand (openly or by implication) that a research study stay away from a forbidden conclusion (e.g., "this rock did not come from the moon"), you can bet that the final research paper will not come to the forbidden conclusion. If necessary, the paper will make up any kind of nonsense in order to avoid the obvious. And similarly, reviewers and other researchers will avoid criticism of the nonsense, because they are equally reliant on the same funding sources.
No engineer or scientist wants to ruin his career by seriously angering The Powers That Be (unless he has a different faction of TPTB on his own side). Many will agree to participate in the deception, and those that don't will remain silent.
More recent examples of such academic prostitution are a research paper claiming that acid rain can cause a steel skyscraper to melt (literally!) to the ground within 10 seconds, and a paper claiming that high tritium levels at a disaster site are due to excessive wearing of wristwatches. |
| X- FACTOR
User ID: 1595
7/4/2009 1:30 PM | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
Wouldn't fine dust in vacuum condtions behave as a more or less compact body, possibly electrically charged aswell, so that jetexhaust wouldn't much perturb the compacted mass of lunar dust? |
| Halcyon Dayz, FCD
User ID: 434868
7/4/2009 2:49 PM
 | | Re: this idiot believes we never went to the moon | Quote |
The point being, once you make it to orbit the rest of the solar system is a much easier reach. Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198
Or, as Heinlein put it:
Reach low orbit and you’re halfway to anywhere in the Solar System.
Question: When does 1000=70% of 385,000?
Answer: When really really smart people tell us that it does...you know the elite few...who actually understand the laws of the universe according to NASA... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717725
Argumentum ad Ignorantium: It's not just a fallacy, it's a way of life!
Shut the Fuck up!...Your analogies are I don't know...but you make me want to slap the everloving shit out of you.Oh look at it this way...but look at it this way...etc...your a worthless POS NOMUSE!...A FREAKING NASA SHILL!...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!! Quoting: Innocentwolf15 549832
Such an eloquent, well reasoned, and persuasive rebuttal.
I'm sure NoMuse will have to eat his words now.
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it. - Don Marquis
To defy the authority of empirical evidence is to disqualify oneself as someone worthy of critical engagement in a dialogue. - Tenzin Gyatso
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem - William of Ockham
The truth maybe out there, but lies are inside your head - Terry Pratchett
HALCYON DAYS STOP BEING A DIPSHIT ALL YOUR LIFE YOU MORON - Anonymous Coward |
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