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Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!

 
Nightshade
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07/02/2009 03:27 PM
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Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
This research is scary on a number of levels.

CTV TORONTO

Transmission studies suggest H1N1 is here to stay

Updated: Thu Jul. 02 2009 2:13:51 PM

The Canadian Press

TORONTO — H1N1 viruses are missing at least two key features seen in all flu viruses present and past that transmit well among people and yet the viruses are spreading quite efficiently, two new studies suggest.

The research groups which produced the work differ slightly in their views of the degree to which the novel H1N1 virus is spreading, with one finding transmission isn't yet as efficient as with human flu viruses while the other finding transmission rates are in lockstep with those of seasonal flu cousins.

There is no disputing the evidence, though -- the virus is spreading around the globe, claiming at least 332 lives so far. And it is doing this without all the tools scientists would expect a flu virus to need to become a successful human pathogen.

"The take-home message is that a virus that does not have some of the features that we have previously recognized as hallmarks of adaptation of flu in humans was able to establish itself in humans and cause disease," said Dr. Daniel Perez, an influenza virologist with the University of Maryland.

"Regardless of what the virus might do, I believe it is here to stay either as a whole virus or with some of its gene. It may be able to outcompete and-or co-circulate with seasonal flu strains."

Perez was not involved in the studies, both of which will be published Friday in the journal Science. He is, however, familiar with the work; his lab has completed a similar study.

The transmission studies were done by research groups at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control with colleagues from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and at Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands.

Both groups tested spread in ferrets, which are considered an excellent model for flu infection in humans.

The CDC's work suggests the virus isn't yet completely adapted to spread among humans. When healthy ferrets were housed in cages adjacent to and sharing feeding dishes with experimentally infected animals, only two-thirds of the healthy animals became infected in the CDC research.

By contrast, the group in the Netherlands found all healthy ferrets caught the new virus when housed next to animals infected with the virus. Perez's work also saw this 100 per cent transmission rate.

In both the CDC and Erasmus studies, ferrets that were infected with human flu viruses transmitted infection to all their healthy neighbours.

Dr. Terrence Tumpey, senior author of the CDC study, said variation in the air flow setups between the CDC's ferret cages and those used in the other studies may explain the differing findings.

But based on what they saw, his team believes this virus may still be getting used to its new human host.

A key piece of evidence supporting their conclusion relates to the virus's ability to infect cells in the human respiratory tract. The CDC-MIT scientists showed the novel H1N1 virus's hemagglutinin -- the surface protein that locks onto a cell it is about to invade -- currently makes a connection that is weaker or less efficient than that made by regular flu viruses.

That suggests the virus has room for improvement. And if it mutates to bind more efficiently, it would become even more adept at spreading from person to person.

"I mean, it's transmitting. But we think it could potentially transmit even better," Tumpey said from Atlanta.

He suggested with better transmission could come more severe disease -- not just in sheer numbers, but in the proportion of infected people who develop serious illness.

"A lot of cases have been mild. But if it was adapted more towards humans, it could be more severe. More consistently severe," Tumpey said.

His counterpart on the Dutch paper, Dr. Ron Fouchier, shares his concerns.

"I do agree that the virus might still pick up mutations to improve infection and transmission in humans. But in our opinion, it is already good enough to beat the seasonal flu viruses," he said via email.

The CDC scientists also reported that the virus is missing a feature in an internal gene called PB2 that is known to relate to transmissibility.

All seasonal flu viruses and the past three pandemic viruses -- in other words, all flu viruses which have successfully made the jump from other species into humans -- have had this feature. The H1N1 virus does not.

They don't know how the virus achieved transmissibility without this mutation or how likely it is to acquire it. But Tumpey said the mutation is also linked to increased virulence or disease severity and the flu community is watching closely for this change.

Both groups studied tissues from the infected ferrets. They found H1N1 viruses triggered infections that went deep into the lungs of the animals. Human flu strains infect the animals' upper airways.

That ability of the virus to spread to and proliferate deep in the lungs could help explain what doctors caring for severely ill H1N1 patients are seeing: aggressive viral pneumonias that incapacitate the lungs.

"Certainly, the lesions we noted in our ferrets are consistent with the disease in humans," Fouchier said.

"It seems that due to more extensive virus replication, the virus does more damage, and spreads deeper down the airways as compared to seasonal viruses."

Those findings are concerning, suggested Dr. Malik Peiris, a virologist and flu expert at the University of Hong Kong.

Peiris, who was not involved in the studies, said that while the H1N1 virus is not as virulent as H5N1 avian influenza or the virus that caused the 1918 Spanish flu, its ability to infect the lower respiratory tract "is clearly cause for caution in regard to the pathogenic potential of this virus in humans."

Both H5N1 and the Spanish flu virus infect tissues deep in the lungs.

Fouchier said he is concerned the novel H1N1's ability to invade deep lung tissue could lead to more severe disease when the virus is spreading in true winter conditions, which are better suited to spread of flu.

A study in guinea pigs -- also a good animal model for flu -- published a couple of years ago found that at lower temperatures flu viruses replicate more and for longer durations.

If that holds true for humans and for this virus, the severity of H1N1 infections in winter could be greater, Fouchier warned.
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
The CDC scientists also reported that the virus is missing a feature in an internal gene called PB2 that is known to relate to transmissibility.

All seasonal flu viruses and the past three pandemic viruses -- in other words, all flu viruses which have successfully made the jump from other species into humans -- have had this feature. The H1N1 virus does not.

They don't know how the virus achieved transmissibility without this mutation or how likely it is to acquire it. But Tumpey said the mutation is also linked to increased virulence or disease severity and the flu community is watching closely for this change.



Ok, so without this gene this flu should not exist. It contains swine, bird and human strains without the gene that would have allowed it to jump species. How? it has to be tailor made for humans!
Nightshade (OP)

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07/02/2009 03:43 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Who gave this 1 star!!!

Unbelievable.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 03:56 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
summary plz?
Nightshade (OP)

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07/02/2009 04:00 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
I am going to give this one final bump because I think it is a very important study.

It shows:

1. The flu shouldn't exist

2. It has huge scope to evolve.

That suggests the virus has room for improvement. And if it mutates to bind more efficiently, it would become even more adept at spreading from person to person.

"I mean, it's transmitting. But we think it could potentially transmit even better," Tumpey said from Atlanta"

3. It is likely to become more lethal in winter.

"Fouchier said he is concerned the novel H1N1's ability to invade deep lung tissue could lead to more severe disease when the virus is spreading in true winter conditions, which are better suited to spread of flu.

A study in guinea pigs -- also a good animal model for flu -- published a couple of years ago found that at lower temperatures flu viruses replicate more and for longer durations.

If that holds true for humans and for this virus, the severity of H1N1 infections in winter could be greater, Fouchier warned."


It really is time to wake up!
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
summary plz?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 522719


Sorry, I realise it is a bit of a long read but it I couldn't cut it down as every part of seemed important. I will try though.

All flu contain PB2 which is the jumping gene that allows it to transmit. It certainly shouldn't be able to jump from animal to human without it but it supposedly has a few times!

The evidence suggests that the flu is still getting used to it's human host and is still adapting.

This adaptation and winter conditions could leave is with a virus as bad as H5N1 but able to spread easily.
CDC/FT. DIETRICK
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07/02/2009 04:09 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Ordinarily it wouldn't, but with a little help from us you'd be surprised what we can make "jump" the species barrier!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 04:16 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
It can jump from people to pigs, can'yt it?
Mutant
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07/02/2009 04:20 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Well actually TERRENCE TUMPEY IS ONE OF THE CIENTIST INVOLVED in resurrecting the 1918 virus, they know everything about the virus they are the worst criminals in this planet....


TERRENCE TUMPEY MUST BE PROSECUTED WITH GENOCIDE CHARGES

LETS SUE THE MOTHER FUCKER !!!!
Nightshade (OP)

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07/02/2009 04:21 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
It can jump from people to pigs, can'yt it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716696



Yes, it can, and it can spread pretty well between humans but it shouldn't. At least if it is a true flu virus it shouldn't.

The gene that causes flu to jump is missing so it will back to the drawing board to find out what it does contain that is facilitating this spread.

It clearly didn't start in pigs or birds.
SeekerMi

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07/02/2009 04:23 PM

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
bump

Nice find OP!
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 04:24 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
I gave it one star. For fear mongering and bullshit. You are quoting bullshit rather. And there is a derth of information missing from the article.

The missing proteins cannot have evolved on the virus in that manner. The proteins exist because they work so well. This begs the question, "How the hell did this virus evolve and from what?" It could not have evolved. Evolution does not take something that works and modify it by removing a component and have a result that is effective. It is not possible.

Draw whatever conclusions you want to from this.

One other thing. As many people who have died in this lenght of time from this flu, how many have succumbed to the garden variety flu? The swine flu is not particularly virulent. Though it appears to have been more so at the onset.Another abnormal condition.

Another auspicious moment in history. The unprecedented rise and spread of the swine flue in one place of such a unique virus and at the same time that Baxter pharmaceuticals had a presence there, and a stockpile of vaccine from the onset of several million doses. The only company to offer the vaccine at first.
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
I gave it one star. For fear mongering and bullshit. You are quoting bullshit rather. And there is a derth of information missing from the article.

The missing proteins cannot have evolved on the virus in that manner. The proteins exist because they work so well. This begs the question, "How the hell did this virus evolve and from what?" It could not have evolved. Evolution does not take something that works and modify it by removing a component and have a result that is effective. It is not possible.

Draw whatever conclusions you want to from this.

One other thing. As many people who have died in this lenght of time from this flu, how many have succumbed to the garden variety flu? The swine flu is not particularly virulent. Though it appears to have been more so at the onset.Another abnormal condition.

Another auspicious moment in history. The unprecedented rise and spread of the swine flue in one place of such a unique virus and at the same time that Baxter pharmaceuticals had a presence there, and a stockpile of vaccine from the onset of several million doses. The only company to offer the vaccine at first.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716714


Firstly, I posted the article in it's entirety. The full study is published tomorrow in Science.

Secondly, very very few people die from seasonal flu. They mainly die from BACTERIAL pneumonia which elderly patients may succumb to when their immune system has been weakened by the flu. With swine flu it is not only the demographic that is different but also the pneumonia is viral, i.e. part of the virus itself.

Thirdly, I fully suspect that there is a vaccine as this flu is so close to the 1918 flu and I found this little snippet of info:

Dr Terrence Tumpey at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had worked on a team that resurrected the 1918 virus taken from buried victims of the epidemic and tested this virus in mice. Mice given the antibodies from the elderly survivors lived, while those given placebos died.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 05:03 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
I wasn't suggesting that you weren't quoting the entire article I was suggesting that the article leaves out a great deal.

The mechanism by which the flu, swine or otherwise is not important. What matters is that both are the initial cause for the disease condition of the patient. And the swine flue has not caused a single percentage of the deaths that the common flu has caused in the same amount of time.

Baxter had vaccines available and stockpiled and finally offered them after the media had everyone frightened over the swin flu. Why would they have something available for something before it even existed. This is something that you can research yourself, from various news articles, and announcements from baxter.

Look at the death rate per case and you will see that it is not as virulent as it was during its inception.

It also targets people whos immune system has been compromised, (the very young, the elderly and the sick) just like the normal flu virus.

The only difference is that it is making it's rounds during a time when viruses are normally less easily spread. this also suggests artificial innoculation, of a new viral agent.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 05:06 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
popcorn
von doom
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Who gave this 1 star!!!

Unbelievable.
 Quoting: Nightshade


There is a certain contingent that believe that this virus is nothing more than a fear campaign, or they want you to believe that it is.
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
I wasn't suggesting that you weren't quoting the entire article I was suggesting that the article leaves out a great deal.

The mechanism by which the flu, swine or otherwise is not important. What matters is that both are the initial cause for the disease condition of the patient. And the swine flue has not caused a single percentage of the deaths that the common flu has caused in the same amount of time.

Baxter had vaccines available and stockpiled and finally offered them after the media had everyone frightened over the swin flu. Why would they have something available for something before it even existed. This is something that you can research yourself, from various news articles, and announcements from baxter.

Look at the death rate per case and you will see that it is not as virulent as it was during its inception.

It also targets people whos immune system has been compromised, (the very young, the elderly and the sick) just like the normal flu virus.

The only difference is that it is making it's rounds during a time when viruses are normally less easily spread. this also suggests artificial innoculation, of a new viral agent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716714


You are wrong 87% of the deaths have been in people aged 9 to 59. 60% of all hospitalisations have been in people with no under-lying health conditions and there is a much higher mortality rate from this flu, as I pointed out.

This flu is very likely to become more virulent in winter and I believe this was part of the design. It has allowed the flu to seed without people paying too much attention.

We won't need the vaccination to kill us, the virus will do a good job on it's own. I'm sure there is an effective vaccine in existence for "special people".
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Who gave this 1 star!!!

Unbelievable.


There is a certain contingent that believe that this virus is nothing more than a fear campaign, or they want you to believe that it is.
 Quoting: von doom 693999


Very true.The MSM have certainly put a lot of energy into sending that message.

Of course if it was a fear campaign it would be over-played not under-played. It's barely had a mention since the beginning of May. The trotting out of erroneous seasonal flu death figures says it all.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2009 11:37 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
bump
Anonymous Coward
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07/03/2009 06:15 AM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Miracles happen everyday in evolution, some we canot distinguish as they are small some well they shock us. I think the time has come for sever mutation possibilities that we have never witnessed ourselves, so the virus might be able to adapt and convert to survive and grow.
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
July 2 (Bloomberg) -- Swine flu caused more-severe illness
in ferrets than seasonal flu, according to two studies in the
journal Science that help explain why the H1N1 virus causes
symptoms not seen in regular flu such as nausea and vomiting.

The H1N1 swine flu virus went further into the ferrets’
lungs, and also penetrated the gastrointestinal tract while
seasonal flu stayed in the nasal cavity, researchers from the
U.S. and the Netherlands found. Ferrets are affected by flu
viruses much as humans are, the researchers said.

“These data suggest that the 2009 A(H1N1) influenza virus
has the ability to persist in the human population, potentially
with more severe clinical consequences,” wrote the Dutch study
authors, led by Ron Fouchier at the Erasmus Medical Center in
Rotterdam.

Both groups
found that ferrets infected with swine flu lost more weight than
those exposed to seasonal flu, and that the swine flu virus was
more widespread in the animals’ bodies.
Aquarius 7

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
They'll just send it back to the lab, lol.


btw, 5 stars for a good find.
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Anonymous Coward
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07/03/2009 02:46 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Who gave this 1 star!!!

Unbelievable.


There is a certain contingent that believe that this virus is nothing more than a fear campaign, or they want you to believe that it is.
 Quoting: von doom 693999

Testing Testing Testing.
Anonymous Coward
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07/03/2009 03:39 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Tell us, Nightshady, what do you feel about Russia?
/
LURKING

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07/03/2009 03:48 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Ok, so without this gene this flu should not exist. It contains swine, bird and human strains without the gene that would have allowed it to jump species. How? it has to be tailor made for humans!

 Quoting: Nightshade


This just means that there is another mechanism that promotes transmittance.

In other words, the experts aren't as expert as they thought they were.

It happens all the time. So much so that it has even made it into song lyrics.

From "Godzilla" by Blue Öyster Cult:

History shows again and again
How nature points up the folly of men


Last Edited by LURKING on 07/03/2009 03:51 PM
"The Truth is so valuable that it must be protected with a bodyguard of lies"

Winston Churchill

Punted from GLP for the last time by unresponsive mods. Have gone to greener pastures where there is more professionalism.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Fuck Ferrets
Anonymous Coward
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07/03/2009 04:14 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Another failed bioweapon.

One of these days they will make one that works.
Anonymous Coward
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07/03/2009 04:26 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
"I mean, it's transmitting. But we think it could potentially transmit even better," Tumpey said from Atlanta"
 Quoting: Nightshade



This quote tells us all about the virus and the mindsets of those whom created it, because surely it would be bad, ie alot worse, not good, ie better, if it was transmission was easier.

You see, by saying "better", he's subconsciously giving away his true feelings about the potential ease of spread.

He thinks this is better than if it transmits poorly, which for him would be worse than what he hopes for.

Really, these microbiologists are the scum of the Earth.
SEADOG
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07/03/2009 04:28 PM
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Interesting.

Another anamoly to support the "Flying Pig Flu" theories.

Note though that PB2 is "associated" with transmissibility, not "responsible" for it.

Transmissibility is referred to in an intra-species capacity, it does not refer to species "jumping".
Nightshade (OP)

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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
Oh look someone making designer viruses! What fun!

Next, Dr. Kawaoka used a technology that allows him to genetically engineer "designer" influenza viruses from scratch. By systematically swapping the genes from the harmful and benign viruses, then testing how those engineered viruses affected mice, he discovered that the PB2 gene from the harmful group gives the virus its potency. Then, through testing viruses that contained variations of this PB2 gene, he further identified a tiny change within the gene - a change of just one unit of RNA - that appears to be key to the virus's virulence.

The function of the PB2 gene is not completely understood, but scientists believe it codes for an enzyme that helps force the host cell's molecular machinery to make more viruses, Dr. Kawaoka explains. "We don't know if the mutation we studied is involved in that process, but our next step will be to find out," he says.


[link to www3.niaid.nih.gov]


Well I guess now they're finding out.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Very Interesting!! H1N1 lacks PB2!! shouldn't be able to jump species!!
"I mean, it's transmitting. But we think it could potentially transmit even better," Tumpey said from Atlanta"



This quote tells us all about the virus and the mindsets of those whom created it, because surely it would be bad, ie alot worse, not good, ie better, if it was transmission was easier.

You see, by saying "better", he's subconsciously giving away his true feelings about the potential ease of spread.

He thinks this is better than if it transmits poorly, which for him would be worse than what he hopes for.

Really, these microbiologists are the scum of the Earth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717474



I noticed that, too. Straight from the CDC updating us all on their latest WMD.

News