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radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 435072
7/4/2009 9:27 AM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs	Quote
[link to www.victorianweb.org] SNIP: Far less have we any knowledge of any such laws which can be connected with the successive creation or development of new Organisms. Professor Huxley, in a recent work,1 has indeed spoken of " that combination of natural forces which we term Life."

wing-ed
User ID: 709692
7/4/2009 11:52 AM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

According to the laws of flight [science] humming birds cannot fly !!!

Wut? References?

There are plenty of good explanations for it.

Read the following article and the ones that refer to it if you actually are interested in the subject...

[link to jeb.biologists.org]

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 669235

Sorry I meant Bumblebees :: Is it aerodynamically impossible for bumblebees to fly?
May 4, 1990

Dear Cecil:

When I was in college, not so many eons ago, it was pretty much an article of faith among us intellectual iconoclasts that, though we could put a man on the moon, we still had no idea how a bumblebee could fly. Do we? [link to www.straightdope.com]

Holy, holy,holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.Praise the one who gives you peace beyond all understanding

nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/5/2009 3:27 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

Did you read the article?

Cecil does a good job of simplifying the matter. Actually, there are further nuances in insect flight that are fascinating. But the basic principle has been understood since the 30's.

Yet another common myth. Like standing eggs on end during the equinox. Or toilets flushing counter-clockwise in Australia (at least that one has a plausible mechanism. It's a second-order effect that is swamped by the actual first-order effects of the system, but it is there.)

nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/5/2009 3:28 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs	Quote
And what other poster around here is going to say "...second order effect in a system" and "toilet" in the same sentence? ^-^

Lizard Of Id
User ID: 575952
7/5/2009 3:32 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs	Quote
Thread title failure. Quoting: Nothing Is True No shit. I'm no pagan.... LOL

wing-ed
User ID: 709692
7/5/2009 5:56 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 711198

The way a bees nerves system is a theory which theory's have a way of being changed by every researcher who investigates it !! Remember when they used to say eat margarine for a safer health ! Then margarine came out with more health problems then butter ! Things have a way of evolving in theory and fact just as the use of carbon dating !! I feel new researcher's will change formulas and change theories ! So don't bet your everlasting life future on a scientific theory !!

Holy, holy,holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.Praise the one who gives you peace beyond all understanding

nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/5/2009 6:59 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

Yup...that's what makes science exciting. And what makes it useful. Religion doesn't have a corrective mechanism. Science does.

Notice how the bee flight question went;

First question was "How does a bee fly?"

First answer tried was "like an airplane." But a quick look a the math falsified that.

So next theory was "like a helicopter." The math worked for that one. The original question was answered!

But science doesn't sleep. Years later, a scientist asked "But...how fast are the wings flapping, and doesn't that mean they flap faster than the maximum rate of nervous conduction?"

So new theory -- not to explain how the bee flies, but in answer to a new question dreamed up by the very people who explained how a bee flies.

Heck, I have no trouble with "like a vibrating string" as a basic model. I can think of two analogies in human physiology. The heart muscle, for one, flexes without external impulse. What happens is heart muscle "listens" to other heart muscle, and corrects errors in timing. Much like cicadas chirp together; they are all on their own private oscillator, but they error-correct based on what they hear the group doing.

Other example is ballistic movement. Any piano player would tell you this (drummers would also, but they don't as a rule think that deep....sorry, drummer jokes...) Anyhow, you send the impulse to your finger long before the finger starts to move. By the time your finger comes down on a note, you are already two or three notes ahead, sending the nervous impulses for the next ones.

So it isn't quite as simple as "Science keeps changing its mind." It is more like science keeps refining the answer. In most cases it is conservative; new factors are added, nuances are added, the results are refined, but the gross shape of the model remains the same. More rarely, the model is changed but the observational behavior almost always remains.

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 666261
7/5/2009 7:40 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

There is some validity to the subject line, even if the cited example is not necessarily the best. The longest living tree is the bristle cone pine tree.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Each and every year of growth is recorded in a ring pattern just like other trees, so one can tell the exact number of years old the tree is. When one portion was subjected to radio carbon dating, the results were off by up to 1,000 years, but still it is used as a way to precisely date objects - mainly to keep grant projects funded and get faculty tenured.

nomuse (NLI)
User ID: 711198
7/5/2009 7:46 PM

Re: radiocarbon dating 'failure' = another blow to pagan evolution beliefs

Quote

That's just plain WRONG.

The carbon-dating method, which is only good out to about 50,000 years, and only on organics (and there are exceptions there as well), is adjusted by reference to such things as tree rings.

The amount of c14 in the air does fluctuate. So it isn't possible to simply compare proportion of original to decay product, as it is with other radionuclide dating systems. You can get into the ballpark, but to get the currently used scale to the accuracy levels it is now capable of delivering, sections of scale are compared with physical records; tree rings, ice cores, varves, etc.

Hey, its not circular as long as you accept the proposition that a tree records a ring a year, and a sequence of lean and rich years, fires, frosts, and other events can be located on the rings of both a living and a dead tree...thus extending the scale back past the oldest living things.

But the living tree alone gets you past biblical dates, so I'd think the Creationists would stop worrying about c14!

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