"Viewed from the perspective of history, the Saudi-Iran relationship would confirm Lord Palmerston's aphorism that enemies are not permanent, but interests are."
Iran-Saudi Arabian Embrace: A New Beginning?
History shows that when interests coincide, rivals tend to cooperate
Dilip Hiro YaleGlobal, 9 March 2007
The news coming from the Middle East of late spoke of growing concern among Iran's Sunni Arab neighbors about the Shia state's growing power. That story line took a new twist on March 3 when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad arrived in Riyadh to the warm embrace of King Abdullah, the ruler of Saudi Arabia and a longstanding ally of the US.
The image – and the accompanying pledge by the two leaders to resist any attempt to spread the sectarian conflict in the Middle East for the good of the region in particular and the Muslim world at large – was in dramatic contrast to Sunni-Shiite conflict raging in Iraq daily. The image also stood in contrast to speculation in Washington about the rivalry between Saudi Arabia and Iran intensifying to the point of each funding and training sectarian militias in Iraq to engage in full-scale civil war.
So what does one to make of this unexpected scene from Riyadh? To assess the significance of the apparent beginning of détente, one needs to transcend the exclusively sectarian framework constructed recently. Viewed from the perspective of history, the Iran-Saudi relationship would confirm Lord Palmerston’s aphorism that enemies are not permanent, but interests are.
Yet the ongoing Sunni-Shiite violence in Iraq – against the background of Jordanian King Abdullah’s warning about the emergence of a “Shiite Crescent” in the Middle East – has colored the view of the American policymakers to such an extent that many now can’t help but view the Muslim world through the sectarian prism. In the eyes of American strategists, Iran’s power amounts to a security threat as the Saudi kingdom contains a quarter of the globe’s oil reserves. The petroleum reserves of Iran amount to only half of the Saudi Kingdom’s.
This concern about Iranian power and a narrow sectarian perspective have led US officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, to engage in demonizing the predominantly Shiite Iran. Sounding more Sunni than real Sunni Arabs, they assert that the Sunni Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and the small Gulf monarchies are threatened by the emergence of a super-confident Iran, intent on acquiring nuclear weapons. However, the recent dispatch of carrier battle groups to the Gulf and heightened speculation about a US attack on Iran could just be saber-rattling meant to create division in the Iranian leadership. There are also reports that Saudis are trying to restrain both sides.
An overview of the relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia – situated on the opposite sides of the Persian Gulf – since the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran, shows periods of both intense rivalry and active cooperation.
With Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the radical founder of the Islamic Republic, declaring monarchy un-Islamic and attacking the hereditary rulers of the Arabian Peninsula, his regime alienated all the monarchs of the Gulf.
Tehran’s relations with the Saudi Kingdom soured further when the latter sided openly with Iraq, ruled by the secular Baath Party, during the Iran-Iraq War, 1980 to 1988.
Yet when oil prices collapsed in the spring and summer of 1986 to $10 a barrel, hurting the economies of both Saudi Arabia and Iran, Saudi King Fahd met the Iranian oil minister that October. They backed the idea of a fixed price of $18 a barrel. Being the leading exporters of oil in the Organization of Oil Exporting Countries, their joint decision carried weight.
And when Saudi oil minister Ahmad Zaki Yamani, who had held the job for 24 years, failed to endorse this target, King Fahd dismissed him.
In other words, economic interests led to a convergence of the policies of the two leading Islamic states in the Gulf.
As it is, both Iran and Saudi Arabia are fundamentalist states, both administered according to the Sharia, Islamic law. The difference is that Iran has a representative system, with its citizens choosing their representatives through regularly held elections, whereas Saudi Arabia is a monarchical autocracy which does not allow citizens’ political participation in the administration of the state."
More: [link to yaleglobal.yale.edu]
WOW...so Saudis are allowing IAF to fly over kingdom and Russia is allowing the U.S. to fly over Russia?
Something doesn't seem right and I think GLPers of all people know it. IAF allowed to fly over Saudi Kingdom, U.S. allowed to fly over Russia (Palin resigns and says something about the constitution and mentions August after going to Kosovo), and essentially ALL NAVIES were going to Somolia at one point...I don't know what to make of it.
I would say it is simple, but it feels more complicated than that.
Quoting: Winningjob
I haven't read this entire thread yet WJ but just wanted to say that I completely agree with you. Something VERY WEIRD is going on and my feelings are that it is ALL coming down VERY soon.
What did Palin say about August? I missed it. Thanks.
Saudi's say: PLEASE feel FREE to use our airspace. We will be glad to have you!! Would you like some pita chips and hummus picnic basket for your flight? See we like Israeli very much. I even have kipot.....friend.
...yes, just do the job....seems that you are right....because if we burn up, Saudis + all the oil will burn up even more...nothing like having a strong ally-neighbour, you never know when you are gonna need some eggs to borrow from them...
Appears **someone** is creating a good excuse for **someone**
to conduct terrorist attacks on Saudi oil fields.
~
Quoting: Is45
Pay special attention to the last paragraph...
see how a terrorist attack on the Saudi oil fields
can be seen as a religious war.
May 2, 2009
State Department Annual Report on Terrorism
Saudi Arabia
The Saudi government continued to build its counterterrorism capacity and efforts to counter extremist ideology. In the first six months of the year, the Ministry of Interior arrested 701 militants who had allegedly been planning to attack oil fields and other vital installations. In large scale sweeps, the Kingdom confiscated weapons, ammunition, sophisticated electronics equipment, and money. As of late summer, 520 of these suspects were still being held, awaiting trial on terrorism charges. The Saudis are developing a facilities security force following an unsuccessful attack in 2006 against one of the world’s largest oil processing plants in the Eastern Province.
The Government of Saudi Arabia has announced terrorism trials for 991 individuals indicted on various terrorism-related charges including terrorist finance. After deciding to not establish a specific court for terrorist trials, the Ministry of Interior determined that trials will be conducted in a Sharia court, following established court procedures, as part of a strategy to confront terrorist ideologies within the existing system. The militants were divided into two groups: those who were directly involved in attacks and those who provided refuge, transportation, and funds. The General Court of Riyadh set up a 10-member bench to look into the initial case of 70 terrorist suspects, which included Saudis and foreigners. The court sessions will be restricted to the judges, lawyers, and the accused, which has led to criticism over the lack of transparency.
The Saudi government continued to make strides in its public counterterrorism programs. In July, the Ministry of Interior issued a statement demanding citizens remain vigilant to extremist activities, even within their own families, and report “deviant” behavior. In response, the Grand Mufti, Shayh Abd-al-Aziz Al al-Shaykh, issued a statement in support of the state’s position on terrorism and warned citizens to be smart and not fall for the lies and deception of these people [terrorists] who are pretending to be good.
In an effort to combat terrorist ideologies, the Ministry of the Interior announced the arrest of five individuals, two of whom were not Saudi, for disseminating terrorist propaganda on Internet sites in August. The five individuals were charged with seeking to recruit young people to AQ thought and mobilize them to action in Saudi Arabia or abroad. From a technical standpoint, the Ministry noted that the websites were registered outside of Saudi Arabia and that the individuals owning the websites made frequent changes to the sites in a way that made it difficult for the Saudi government to shut down.
On a more basic level, the Ministry of Islamic Affairs launched an extensive media campaign to educate young Saudis on the “correct” teachings of Islam in order to prevent them from becoming drawn to extremist doctrines. The campaign included messages incorporated into Friday sermons at mosques, distribution of literature and tapes, and article postings on the Internet. In 2007, the Kingdom issued identification cards to imams and religious leaders to curb instances of unauthorized persons delivering Friday sermons. In 2008, the government continued to monitor the licensed imams and looked for instances of “illegal sermons.”
So, no one thinks it is strange that Russia is allowing the U.S. to fly over their country all of a sudden and Saudi Arabia is allowing IAF to fly over their kingdom?
What are the implications of striking IRAN or N. Korea...each has ties and also with China...the oil pipline has vested interest by Russia. Palin stepping down after visiting soldiers in Kosovo and mumbling something about the constitution and said AUGUST...I am thinking crucial time here for numerous countries.
WHY do you think we have seen NUMEROUS and I mean NUMEROUS people resigning all over the world..in NUMEROUS countries? Why again did country after country after country send their navy to the coast off of Somolia? Many that wouldn't normally work TOGETHER.
STARGATE, Nuking the Moon, PX, Alien Invasion whether staged or real, something hitting the sun, SUN creates the Kill shot...comet hitting earth or simply THE BIGGEST war we have seen yet?
While I agree with you that something big is happening...I can't believe this point was missed.
"While Israel has no formal diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, an Israeli source confirmed that the Mossad has "working relations" with the Saudis."
Now think 9/11.
Do you think we are seeing the preparation to another event such as 9/11 and possibly on a grander scale with numerous countries involved?
There is a lot of talk about nukes lately. Something is being staged and we the people are being set up again.
Winningjob...This DEFINATELY needs its own thread...excellent freeflow thought process!
Please start a thread on this so we can discuss this outside this age-old hate fest that this thread induces...
...I have no time for this threads religious BS if folks can't see past their skin color and fake religious doctrines.
THE TIME FOR THE AGENDA GRIND HAS COME!!!
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 708096
U R A LYAR User ID: 718717 7/5/2009 12:09 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
Mossad head Meir Dagan assured Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu that Saudi Arabia would allow Israeli Air Force jets to fly over their kingdom during any future raid on Iran's nuclear facilities, The Sunday Times reported on Sunday.
According to the London daily, Dagan held talks with Saudi officials earlier this year on the topic. The Israeli media has already carried unconfirmed reports that high-ranking officials, including former prime minister Ehud Olmert, held meetings with Saudi colleagues. Saudi officials denied the reports.
"The Saudis have tacitly agreed to the Israeli air force flying through their airspace on a mission which is supposed to be in the common interests of both Israel and Saudi Arabia," a diplomatic source was quoted in the Times as saying last week.
While Israel has no formal diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, an Israeli source confirmed that the Mossad has "working relations" with the Saudis.
Former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, who recently visited the Gulf, said it was "entirely logical" for the Israelis to use Saudi airspace.
Bolton, who has talked to a number of Arab leaders, added: "None of them would say anything about it publicly but they would certainly acquiesce in an over-flight if the Israelis didn't trumpet it as a big success."
Arab states would publicly condemn a raid when they spoke at the UN but would be privately relieved to see the threat of an Iranian bomb removed, Bolton said.
Referring to the attack on an alleged Syrian nuclear facility in 2007 that Israel is rumored to have launched, Bolton added: "To this day, the Israelis haven't admitted the specifics but there's one less nuclear facility in Syria . . ."
Moderate Sunni Arab states are becoming increasingly concerned about the stability of the repressive Shi'ite regime in Teheran and it emerging as a belligerent nuclear power.
"The Saudis are very concerned about an Iranian nuclear bomb, even more than the Israelis," a former head of research in Israeli intelligence told the Times.
YOU MUST be sister to that infamous "Sorcha Faal"!!! Why with all her wild claims of whatever, it's any wonder we are not all in total dispair. Quit spreading your fictitious bullshit on unsuspecting minds. Don't you have a life collecting bugs in a jar or playing with worms in a box or something?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 416652 7/5/2009 12:11 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
USA is last when it comes to health care system - unless you're rich like MJ of course!
Quoting: JADR
Ironic, isn't it? If you're too poor and can't afford quality health care or too rich and can buy as many doctors/meds as you want, the end result is the same. Early death.
YOU MUST be sister to that infamous "Sorcha Faal"!!! Why with all her wild claims of whatever, it's any wonder we are not all in total dispair. Quit spreading your fictitious bullshit on unsuspecting minds. Don't you have a life collecting bugs in a jar or playing with worms in a box or something?
Quoting: U R A LYAR 718717
The OP posted a news article. If you have a problem with the article's content why not contact the 'ynetnews' (better yet, the author who wrote it) and express your grievances to them?
Do you have anything to add besides childish nonsense?
Wonder how William Shakespeare would view this.. what sort of story or play he's write..? I wish he was alive today to tell us all how he views it. History repeating itself.. Again..!!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 718723 7/5/2009 12:24 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
"The Saudis have tacitly agreed to the Israeli air force flying through their airspace on a mission which is supposed to be in the common interests of both Israel and Saudi Arabia," a diplomatic source was quoted in the Times as saying last week.
Quoting: ~GAIA~
I predict a brief and "brightly lit" future for the Isreali-owned, Saudi-occupied "kingdom".
U.S. Vice President Gives Israel Green Light to Attack Iran
by Gil Ronen
Published: 07/05/09, 5:42 PM
(IsraelNN.com) United States Vice President Joe Biden raised the pressure on Iran by appearing to give a green light for Israel to conduct a military strike against the Persian theocracy.
In his appearance Sunday on ABC News’ "This Week," Biden was asked three times by host George Stephanopolous if the Obama Administration would stand in the way of an Israeli military strike.
Three times, he said that Israel was free to do what it needed to do. “If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice,” Biden said.
For now, he said, President Barack Obama’s offer to meet with Iran over its nuclear program remains “on the table.” However, he rejected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s call for more US concessions before such talks begin.
“The ball’s in their court,” Biden said of the Iranians. “If they choose to meet with the P-5 [the United Nations Security Council permanent member states – ed.] under the conditions the P-5 has laid out, it means they begin to change course. And it means that the protestors [against the results of Iran's presidential elections -- ed.] probably had some impact on the behavior of an administration that they don’t like at all.”
The transcript of the conversation between Biden and Stephanopolus regarding Israel is as follows:
BIDEN: If the Iranians seek to engage, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, the clock is ticking...
BIDEN: If the Iranians respond to the offer of engagement, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the offer is on the table?
BIDEN: The offer's on the table.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, Prime Minister Netanyahu has made it pretty clear that he agreed with President Obama to give until the end of the year for this whole process of engagement to work. After that, he's prepared to make matters into his own hands.
Is that the right approach?
BIDEN: Look, Israel can determine for itself -- it's a sovereign nation -- what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Whether we agree or not?
BIDEN: Whether we agree or not. They're entitled to do that. Any sovereign nation is entitled to do that. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed.
What we believe is in the national interest of the United States, which we, coincidentally, believe is also in the interest of Israel and the whole world. And so there are separate issues.
If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But just to be clear here, if the Israelis decide Iran is an existential threat, they have to take out the nuclear program, militarily the United States will not stand in the way?
BIDEN: Look, we cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination that they're existentially threatened and their survival is threatened by another country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say we can't dictate, but we can, if we choose to, deny over-flight rights here in Iraq. We can stand in the way of a military strike.
BIDEN: I'm not going to speculate, George, on those issues, other than to say Israel has a right to determine what's in its interests, and we have a right and we will determine what's in our interests.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that he agrees to give President Obama’s engagement policy until the end of the year to bear fruit. He hinted, however, that Israel would feel free to take on the Iranian “existential threat” after that deadline had passed.
U.S. Vice President Gives Israel Green Light to Attack Iran
by Gil Ronen
Published: 07/05/09, 5:42 PM
(IsraelNN.com) United States Vice President Joe Biden raised the pressure on Iran by appearing to give a green light for Israel to conduct a military strike against the Persian theocracy.
In his appearance Sunday on ABC News’ "This Week," Biden was asked three times by host George Stephanopolous if the Obama Administration would stand in the way of an Israeli military strike.
Three times, he said that Israel was free to do what it needed to do. “If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice,” Biden said.
For now, he said, President Barack Obama’s offer to meet with Iran over its nuclear program remains “on the table.” However, he rejected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s call for more US concessions before such talks begin.
“The ball’s in their court,” Biden said of the Iranians. “If they choose to meet with the P-5 [the United Nations Security Council permanent member states – ed.] under the conditions the P-5 has laid out, it means they begin to change course. And it means that the protestors [against the results of Iran's presidential elections -- ed.] probably had some impact on the behavior of an administration that they don’t like at all.”
The transcript of the conversation between Biden and Stephanopolus regarding Israel is as follows:
BIDEN: If the Iranians seek to engage, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, the clock is ticking...
BIDEN: If the Iranians respond to the offer of engagement, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the offer is on the table?
BIDEN: The offer's on the table.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, Prime Minister Netanyahu has made it pretty clear that he agreed with President Obama to give until the end of the year for this whole process of engagement to work. After that, he's prepared to make matters into his own hands.
Is that the right approach?
BIDEN: Look, Israel can determine for itself -- it's a sovereign nation -- what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Whether we agree or not?
BIDEN: Whether we agree or not. They're entitled to do that. Any sovereign nation is entitled to do that. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed.
What we believe is in the national interest of the United States, which we, coincidentally, believe is also in the interest of Israel and the whole world. And so there are separate issues.
If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But just to be clear here, if the Israelis decide Iran is an existential threat, they have to take out the nuclear program, militarily the United States will not stand in the way?
BIDEN: Look, we cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination that they're existentially threatened and their survival is threatened by another country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say we can't dictate, but we can, if we choose to, deny over-flight rights here in Iraq. We can stand in the way of a military strike.
BIDEN: I'm not going to speculate, George, on those issues, other than to say Israel has a right to determine what's in its interests, and we have a right and we will determine what's in our interests.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that he agrees to give President Obama’s engagement policy until the end of the year to bear fruit. He hinted, however, that Israel would feel free to take on the Iranian “existential threat” after that deadline had passed.
Change of strategy - the US realizes that sweet talking Iran only brings contempt ...
So the US response is : "Oh yeah...in that case - we stop bullying Israel into submitting to your Agenda" Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 657223 7/5/2009 12:45 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
Change of strategy - the US realizes that sweet talking Iran only brings contempt ...
So the US response is : "Oh yeah...in that case - we stop bullying Israel into submitting to your Agenda"
And, Israel can do USA's dirty work.
USA will work 'behind the scenes' and keep hands 'clean.'
Most of the public will blame only Israel because they don't understand what happens beneath the surface. Some here get it, but the majority do not.
Quoting: tangelo
Worst..Idiots will go on claiming the USA is controlled by Israel...
Last Edited by JADR on 7/5/2009 at 12:58 PM Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 683235 7/5/2009 12:58 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
If it's bad now......I can't wait to see after attack.
Quoting: tangelo
Ah well - any reason is good to hate the Jews & Israel ..even MJ's death... Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 385288 7/5/2009 1:05 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
Allied? Saudi Arabia is just letting them fly through their air space... I hardly call that an alliance.
Then what would you call it?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 385288
I call that "I hate your guts (you sons of pigs) but I'll pretend I never saw you fly over my palaces cause I'm scared shitless of those shia dogs" Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.
~GAIA~ I HATE mornings ... User ID: 718647 7/5/2009 1:11 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
YOU MUST be sister to that infamous "Sorcha Faal"!!! Why with all her wild claims of whatever, it's any wonder we are not all in total dispair. Quit spreading your fictitious bullshit on unsuspecting minds. Don't you have a life collecting bugs in a jar or playing with worms in a box or something?
The OP posted a news article. If you have a problem with the article's content why not contact the 'ynetnews' (better yet, the author who wrote it) and express your grievances to them?
Do you have anything to add besides childish nonsense?
*spelling oops
Quoting: tangelo
'..what can grow without rain..
..what can burn for years without burn...
..stone can grow without rain...
..and only love can burn for years without end...'
If it's bad now......I can't wait to see after attack.
Ah well - any reason is good to hate the Jews & Israel ..even MJ's death...
Well, it's true about MJ.
He was not kosher, and had to be taken care of.
Quoting: tangelo
Don't laugh - France's n#1 'anti Zionist' clown 'Dieudonne' has already posted a video claiming that Zionists (Jews) are responsible for the death of another black man! (-> bleached MJ)
Last Edited by JADR on 7/5/2009 at 1:14 PM Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.
~GAIA~ I HATE mornings ... User ID: 718647 7/5/2009 1:12 PM
Re: BREAKING:'Saudis would let IAF jets fly over kingdom on Iran mission'.."GREEN LIGHT TO ATTACK IRAN"
Change of strategy - the US realizes that sweet talking Iran only brings contempt ...
So the US response is : "Oh yeah...in that case - we stop bullying Israel into submitting to your Agenda"
And, Israel can do USA's dirty work.
USA will work 'behind the scenes' and keep hands 'clean.'
Most of the public will blame only Israel because they don't understand what happens beneath the surface. Some here get it, but the majority do not.
Quoting: tangelo
As usual, Israel, the usual suspect. '..what can grow without rain..
..what can burn for years without burn...
..stone can grow without rain...
..and only love can burn for years without end...'
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...yes, just do the job....seems that you are right....because if we burn up, Saudis + all the oil will burn up even more...nothing like having a strong ally-neighbour, you never know when you are gonna need some eggs to borrow from them...
