|
| Page 1, 2, 3, 4 |
CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT!
|
Joe_Neubarth
User ID: 619969
7/5/2009 9:48 AM
Report abusive post | CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT!
| Quote |
By issuing IOU's, they are in legal default on short term debt. Technically, those creditors can take the state into Federal Bankruptcy Court to get payment. With the economy rapidly collapsing week after week, the revenue to the state is rapidly collapsing, too.
Unemployed people do not pay taxes like employed people and well over 20 percent of the workforce population in California is not working with still further unemployment projected for years to come in this Depression. California has felt the full force of the Depression, and is falling apart. Not only the state, but the County and City governments too.
This, of course, underscores how fragile California's debt situation is. They could go under at any time, and cause horrific damage to the National Economy.
Other states will follow. We are going down, and we can not stop the momentum. |
|
Dread Pirate Roberts
User ID: 717433
7/5/2009 9:51 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Interesting take, Joe. It seems logical. I wonder if any creditors WILL take Cali to federal debt court...
I read somewhere else that someone wrote that they were going to use their issued IOU to pay their CA taxes, lol, a 'circle the drain' momentum, as you say, and it's all going down.
From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 619969 (OP)
7/5/2009 10:13 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
AND ACROSS THE NATION WE ARE STILL COLLAPSING. LOOK AT INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION!
Watch Industrial Production for Economic improvement.
-------------------------------------------------------
Here are the stats for the past year. The economy has been plunging like the Titanic towards the bottom. When we see that plunge go to zero or better two months running, THEN we will have a Green Shoot. Right now we are in a hell of a lot of trouble.
INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION
MAY -1.1%
APR -0.7%
MAR -1.7%
FEB -1.5%
JAN -1.9%
DEC -2.4%
NOV -1.3
OCT +1.5%
SEP -2.8%
AUG -1.1%
JUL +0.1%
Already the number of layoffs in the Industrial Production jobs far exceeds the number of jobs that Obama's stimulus plan will create. All I can see the stimulus plan doing once it gets into gear is slow down the frightening rate of collapse.
Quite frankly, we are in urgent need of a valid new stimulus plan.
More important we need to get inner city people to work. Unemployment in Oakland is nearing 30%. This is going to be a hot summer, and past experience has shown us that riots in minority populated inner cities occur when the heat is up and the jobs are gone.
Oakland, CALIFORNIA is going to burn later this summer if we do not take urgent action. Obama's actions so far appear to be TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE. |
|
Dread Pirate Roberts
User ID: 717433
7/5/2009 10:14 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
thanks for the facts OP. Good thread. Bump for reality check
From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 716852
7/5/2009 10:27 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Maybe my mind is still a bit clouded from last night's festivities....I'm not really sure that there is a reason to celebrate July 4th, but I digress....
To my way of thinking, you are seeing the state's equivalent to what has been going on with the federal "bail-outs". Here's why I think this: With the federal bail-outs, money was basically promised from future tax revenues. Not real money, but a promise of money, in other words, more debt.
Now, looking at California, they don't have the luxury of promising your posterity's taxes on their production, so they're doing WHATEVER they can to keep the cogs turning, in this case IOU's..
What I think you're going to see, is not an overnight collapse, but a slow bleed-down, as more and more economic tricks are employed...Have to admit I didn't see those banker bail-out tactics coming... |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 716852
7/5/2009 10:57 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718668
7/5/2009 10:58 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
They have 3 days left. After that, the banks won't accept the IOUs... and you will have chaos in the streets. |
|
bed 
Life is divine in thine...
User ID: 628959
7/5/2009 10:59 AM
 | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
The only massive crop we grow is corn, it seems. It's too late to diversify. We're doomed. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 690688
7/5/2009 11:23 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Is there a reason why BOA/Wells Fargo agreed to accepting the IOUs only up to July 10th?
What good does only accepting them for a week do? |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 564808
7/5/2009 11:31 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Is there a reason why BOA/Wells Fargo agreed to accepting the IOUs only up to July 10th?
What good does only accepting them for a week do? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690688
In an e-mailed statement, the bank referred to "the last time the state issued registered warrants in 1992, where the longer the registered warrants were accepted, the longer it took the Legislature to resolve the matter. So, we don't want our acceptance of registered warrants to deter the state from reaching a budget agreement as soon as possible."
[link to www.latimes.com]
Interesting how tough love didn't apply to the banks when they were on the other end of a bailout. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714923
7/5/2009 11:47 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Doom soon!!
No doubt!! |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714923
7/5/2009 11:48 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
DOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!! |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 694723
7/5/2009 11:51 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
We are going down, and we can not stop the momentum. Quoting: Joe_Neubarth 619969
[link to www.youtube.com]
Women and children first! |
|
lillie8
User ID: 689157
7/5/2009 11:53 AM
 | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
They have 3 days left. After that, the banks won't accept the IOUs... and you will have chaos in the streets. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718668
Can the government force banks, creditors, and others to take the IOU's
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
I wondered why the Frisbee was getting bigger and then it hit me. |
|
picesnator
User ID: 639746
7/5/2009 11:58 AM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
don't u love the lib's and their wonderful touchy feelie economics......does that gives u that tingley feeling up ur leg??? |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 619969 (OP)
7/5/2009 12:06 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
don't u love the lib's and their wonderful touchy feelie economics......does that gives u that tingley feeling up ur leg??? Quoting: picesnator
Actually, podner, it puts me in fear for my family's safety. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 716441
7/5/2009 12:08 PM | |
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 713944
7/5/2009 12:10 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
rolflolzing |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 713944
7/5/2009 12:11 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716441
lol Arnold = f@1L |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718680
7/5/2009 12:13 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
The unemployment timebomb is quietly ticking
One dog has yet to bark in this long winding crisis. Beyond
riots in Athens and a Baltic bust-up, we have not seen
evidence of bitter political protest as the slump eats away
at the legitimacy of governing elites in North America,
Europe, and Japan. It may just be a matter of time.
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 8:45PM BST 04 Jul 2009
One of my odd experiences covering the US in the early 1990s
was visiting militia groups that sprang up in Texas, Idaho,
and Ohio in the aftermath of recession. These were mostly
blue-collar workers, - early victims of global "labour
arbitrage" - angry enough with Washington to spend
weekends in fatigues with M16 rifles. Most backed protest
candidate Ross Perot, who won 19pc of the presidential vote
in 1992 with talk of shutting trade with Mexico.
The inchoate protest dissipated once recovery fed through to
jobs, although one fringe group blew up the Oklahoma City
Federal Building in 1995. Unfortunately, there will be no
such jobs this time. Capacity use has fallen to record-low
levels (68pc in the US, 71 in the eurozone). A deep purge of
labour is yet to come.
The shocker last week was not just that the US lost 467,000
jobs in May, but also that time worked fell 6.9pc from a
year earlier, dropping to 33 hours a week. "At no time in
the 1990 or 2001 recessions did we ever come close to seeing
such a detonating jobs figure," said David Rosenberg from
Glukin Sheff. "We have lost a record nine million full-time
jobs this cycle."
Earnings have fallen at a 1.6pc annual rate over the last
three months. Wage deflation is setting in - like Japan.
Interestingly, The International Labour Organisation is
worried enough to push for a global pact, fearing countries
may set off a ruinous spiral by chipping away at wages try
to gain beggar-thy-neighbour advantage.
Some of the US pay cuts are disguised. Over 238,000 state
workers in California have been working two days less a
month without pay since February. Variants of this are
happening in 22 states.
The Centre for Labour Market Studies (CLMS) in Boston says
US unemployment is now 18.2pc, counting the old-fashioned
way. The reason why this does not "feel" like the 1930s is
that we tend to compress the chronology of the Depression.
It takes time for people to deplete their savings and sink
into destitution. Perhaps our greater cushion of wealth
today will prevent another Grapes of Wrath, but 20m US
homeowners are already in negative equity (zillow.com data).
Evictions are running at a terrifying pace.
Some 342,000 homes were foreclosed in April, pushing a small
army of children into a network of charity shelters. This
compares to 273,000 homes lost in the entire year of 1932.
Sheriffs in Michigan and Illinois are quietly refusing to
toss families on to the streets, like the non-compliance of
Catholic police in the Slump.
Europe is a year or so behind, but catching up fast.
Unemployment has reached 18.7pc in Spain (37pc for youths),
and 16.3pc in Latvia. Germany has delayed the cliff-edge
effect by paying companies to keep furloughed workers
through "Kurzarbeit". Germany's "Wise Men" fear that the
jobless rate will jump from 3.7m to 5.1m by next year. The
OECD expects unemployment to reach 57m in the rich countries
by the end of next year.
This is the deadly lag effect. What is so disturbing is that
governments have not even begun the spending squeeze that
must come to stop their countries spiralling into a debt
compound trap.
French president Nicolas Sarkozy, with a good nose for
popular moods, says: "We must overhaul everything. We cannot
have a system of rentiers and social dumping under
globalisation. Either we have justice or we will have
violence. It is a chimera to think that this crisis is just
a footnote and that we can carry on as before."
The message has not reached Wall Street or the City. If
bankers know what is good for them, they will take a
teacher's salary for a few years until the storm passes. If
they proceed with the bonuses now on the table, even as
taxpayers pay for the errors of their caste, they must
expect a ferocious backlash.
We are fortunate that the US has a new president enjoying a
great reservoir of sympathy, and a clean-broom Congress.
Other nations must limp on with carcass governments:
Germany's paralysed Left-Right coalition, the burned-out
relics of Japan's LDP, and Labour's death march in Britain.
Some are taking precautions: Silvio Berlusconi is trying to
emasculate Italy's parliament (with little protest) while
the Kremlin has activated "anti-crisis" units to nip protest
in the bud.
We are moving into Phase II of the Great Unwinding. It may
be time to put away our texts of Keynes, Friedman, and
Fisher, so useful for Phase 1, and start studying what
happened to society when global unemployment went haywire in
1932. |
|
anonymous
User ID: 718630
7/5/2009 12:14 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
AND ACROSS THE NATION WE ARE STILL COLLAPSING. LOOK AT INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION!
Watch Industrial Production for Economic improvement.
-------------------------------------------------------
Here are the stats for the past year. The economy has been plunging like the Titanic towards the bottom. When we see that plunge go to zero or better two months running, THEN we will have a Green Shoot. Right now we are in a hell of a lot of trouble.
INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION
MAY -1.1%
APR -0.7%
MAR -1.7%
FEB -1.5%
JAN -1.9%
DEC -2.4%
NOV -1.3
OCT +1.5%
SEP -2.8%
AUG -1.1%
JUL +0.1%
Already the number of layoffs in the Industrial Production jobs far exceeds the number of jobs that Obama's stimulus plan will create. All I can see the stimulus plan doing once it gets into gear is slow down the frightening rate of collapse.
Quite frankly, we are in urgent need of a valid new stimulus plan.
More important we need to get inner city people to work. Unemployment in Oakland is nearing 30%. This is going to be a hot summer, and past experience has shown us that riots in minority populated inner cities occur when the heat is up and the jobs are gone.
Oakland, CALIFORNIA is going to burn later this summer if we do not take urgent action. Obama's actions so far appear to be TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 619969
people are on bare bones budgets now for prolly the next 5 y, , ears .. amercans are swamped with goods . garages across america are loaded down with stuff. .. |
|
Me114
aka ladynada
User ID: 596184
7/5/2009 12:14 PM
 | |
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718715
7/5/2009 12:23 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
people are on bare bones budgets now for prolly the next 5 y, , ears .. amercans are swamped with goods . garages across america are loaded down with stuff. .. Quoting: anonymous 718630
Apparently they aren't swamped with guns and ammo yet! Those industries are thriving. Ammunition is still super scarce. It looks like some of that Starbucks money is going to self defense. |
|
boardretard
User ID: 531027
7/5/2009 12:33 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Interesting take, Joe. It seems logical. I wonder if any creditors WILL take Cali to federal debt court...
I read somewhere else that someone wrote that they were going to use their issued IOU to pay their CA taxes, lol, a 'circle the drain' momentum, as you say, and it's all going down. Quoting: Dread Pirate Roberts
If they are transferable I will be happy to buy those ious for 75 cents on the dollar. Not all of them of course but a substantial amount. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714325
7/5/2009 2:39 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716441
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714325
7/5/2009 2:39 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716441
|
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714325
7/5/2009 2:39 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 716441
|
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 659821
7/5/2009 2:52 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Well, they are issuing warrants that can be cashed at Bank of America.
This is done because Bank of America earns INTEREST on warrants until they are repaid.
So, bailed out on taxpayer dollars BoA is taking Cali's debt, earning interest on it and we get the bill.
Essentially the govt owes too much money so it's borrowing more + interest from a bank that the taxpayers have funded. Who gets left holding the bag?
And all of this isn't a ponzi scheme because??? |
|
Aquarius 7
User ID: 715791
7/5/2009 2:59 PM
 | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
The only massive crop we grow is corn, it seems. It's too late to diversify. We're doomed. Quoting: bed
.
Here too! (Oregon). Corn fields everywhere the past couple years.
When I was growing up (a long, long time ago, lol), we had beans, strawberries, sugar beets, melons, pumpkins, tomatoes, mint .. and orchards upon orchards of walnuts, hazelnuts, apricots, peaches, apples, cherries, ...
Now the majority of the farm land (that which has not been covered with homes and industry) has been converted to grass seed (most of which is sent to china) and corn.
“ Put on the whole armor of God … for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the wickedness of the evil spirits in the heavens. …” ~ from Ephesians 6:11-12 |
|
Arenoyd Schwartzeniggle
User ID: 429261
7/5/2009 3:14 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 708940
7/5/2009 3:16 PM | | Re: CALIFORNIA IS IN DEFAULT! | Quote |
Well, they are issuing warrants that can be cashed at Bank of America.
This is done because Bank of America earns INTEREST on warrants until they are repaid.
So, bailed out on taxpayer dollars BoA is taking Cali's debt, earning interest on it and we get the bill.
Essentially the govt owes too much money so it's borrowing more + interest from a bank that the taxpayers have funded. Who gets left holding the bag?
And all of this isn't a ponzi scheme because??? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 659821
interesting take. BoA really has nothing to lose. They already are bankrupt and only afloat with our tax dollars, which now are paying the California IOU's plus interest. |
|
| Page 1, 2, 3, 4 |
|
