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** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 720851
7/8/2009 7:10 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
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AnTiSoShAL
User ID: 715294
7/8/2009 7:12 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
No antisoshal, the fans themselves are mostly resistive either as long they pull air, only when running without fans the motors would be inductive as long they have no friction in the bearings ...
Also again you can safely neglect the inductive component of heating coils as they are made of resistive wires to produce heat.
And additionally you can also neglect the power consumption of the fans as it's the heating wires that draw the main current there. Quoting: FreeFlow
You'll forgive me if I continue to use what I know in my professional life, of course.
The coils are resistive, but any current passed through a wire generates a magnetic field. This field passes through other wires near it, inducing a current, either in phase or out of phase depending on the mechanical orientation. At higher currents, these induced currents become significant, and present an inductive load. If the heaters were a series of straight wires widely spaced, its negligible. For most load dissipating devices, the impedance becomes significantly inductive because the coils are in close proximity to allow them to be cooled effectively by the fan. This is why we have caps that switch in with the coils when we adjust the loads on our Kohler EG for my facility. If the caps go bad, which they have, the load becomes inductive on the load bank and interacts badly with the windings on the EG, lowering the effective output.
Actually Tesla was the genius that discovered that almost all AC transmission principles are primarily inductive, as opposed to DC which are purely resistive. You cannot offset a loss in the resistive realm, but with proper offsetting, the loss of AC transmission can be significantly reduced because of its inductance. This allows us to transmit enormous amounts of power that would be prohibitive if they were simply DC.
AC is a beautiful thing.
If only his ideas for capacitive/inductive transmission would have worked out. |
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Opener of the Way 
obist
User ID: 705424
7/8/2009 7:15 PM
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 720833
7/8/2009 7:15 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
yes they can read the load in real time
I have yard lights that I usually keep turned off - serious yard lights like 40 amps worth.. I can light this place up like a football stadium if I want to...
My yard is huge...
So like the electrician had turned on all the breakers for the yard lights but the timers were all reset cause they had been off... so they came on at midnight for 6 hours one night the second day the smart meter was on..
I saw them and turned them off again the next day cause they suck down too much power..
Well the fucking guys came out with an HOURLY GRAPH of my power usage going wtf is this spike at midnight all about..
I then proceeded to show them the multiple 400 watt yard lights I have around the perimeter and they were like ohh... well we noticed it was only that one night and were wondering what was up with that...
so yea...
they can track EVERYTHING with this smart meter shit.. Quoting: ^TrInItY^
Trinity, you remember the decrypt contest you held a couple of weeks ago? And the discussion of how decryption is aided by the most probable word usage like "the" being an initial starting pointing for what letters have been shifted?
Well, just imagine how easy it might be to tell what you're doing, when you're doing it, and what you're going to do, based on detailed power usage records!  Add that to your cable company, and....who needs the NSA? 
All of a sudden, your solar power investment seems a lot more justifiable.... |
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FreeFlow
User ID: 456207
7/8/2009 7:16 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
AnTiSoShAL I told you already the term coils is misleading for heating wires, their relative few and spaced out windings don't give a significant coil effect relative to their consumption of resistive current, not at these low frequencies in the region of 50/60 Hz at least.
You are approaching that thing not very practically but much too theoretically ...
I will rest my case now lol.
Last Edited by FreeFlow on 7/8/2009 at 7:19 PM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:23 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
there are some nice tesla ideas on the net on how to make your meter run slower for example magnets hehe and many more ways to fool them works for me |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 484854
7/8/2009 7:25 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
If this does in fact affect all the new meters they're installing, then they must realize something is wrong on their end. The power companies know how much power they're pushing through their grid, and they know what they are charging for it per kwh. So simple logic indicates that they'd see enormous discrepancies after they started installing them in any sizable portion of the homes.
So, either they had a batch of bad meters, or they are doing this knowingly. |
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FreeFlow
User ID: 456207
7/8/2009 7:25 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
there are some nice tesla ideas on the net on how to make your meter run slower for example magnets hehe and many more ways to fool them works for me Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715576
Yeah good idea if you can slow down a meter that runs on double count by lets say ten percent lol ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:26 PM | |
^TrInItY^ 
Forum Administrator
7/8/2009 7:26 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
the real proof will be when my electrician does his tests at his house
if he can verify then they cannot say it's an isolated incident
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:27 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
[link to www.metacafe.com] |
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AnTiSoShAL
User ID: 715294
7/8/2009 7:30 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
AnTiSoShAL I told you already the term coils is misleading for heating wires, their relative few and spaced out windings don't give a significant coil effect relative to their consumption of resistive current, not at these low frequencies in the region of 50/60 Hz at least.
You are approaching that thing not very practically but much too theoretically ...
I will rest my case now lol. Quoting: FreeFlow
IM approaching it practically, knowing full well they are not designed as inductors, but merely behave like them at high loads. This isnt really an opinion, its simple fact I have to deal with often. Among other things, we have an LARGE backup generator that I load test for my facility monthly. At low rates the load bank is purely resistive. At higher loads ( up to 10KW continuous, its a pretty big generator ) the banks become increasingly inductive from the proximity of the "coils" to each other and the induction. As such, we have large capacitors that need to be inserted in parallel with the load as the load is increased to keep the load factor constant in the operating range of the generator.
Actually doing things is about as un-theoretical as you can get......
I would expect that the load the power company brough was primarily resistive, but if they were truly trying to test for residential power, the load SHOULD be significantly inductive to imitate the heavy inductive loads caused by air conditioners, refrigerators and freezers. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 484854
7/8/2009 7:31 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
the real proof will be when my electrician does his tests at his house
if he can verify then they cannot say it's an isolated incident Quoting: ^TrInItY^
It stopped being an isolated incident the moment they found a second meter that did the exact same thing. Those two meters (the first one, and the one they tried afterwards) were almost certainly not side-by-side on the production line. And their error in function is identical -- in other words, while they both give the wrong reading, they agree on their wrongness. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:32 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
actually i read some article somewhere once duno anymore where i have to look it up but also a tesla thing and the fact is that that meter configuration when used gives you more power and runs slower and when more power is consumed the more it gives. anyone remember this |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 713616
7/8/2009 7:32 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
THIS is why I come to GLP!!!
Good job!! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714824
7/8/2009 7:33 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
I would have taken video of them working on it. I would not be surprised you still get a crazy bill for the time the meter was on the house.
yea I've got it on tape
my house is covered with cameras
I just gota go pull it off the cctv system and burn it to cd Quoting: ^TrInItY^
Fuck them up Trinity smite them you homosexual crop grower.  |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:36 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
btw something else is radiation electricity that comes from power lines also stealing i mean nothing is connected to it and it does give you a way to store that leaking power into batteries
just a thought sorry for not being on the topic |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 694241
7/8/2009 7:43 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Look who will soon be controlling our power...the zionist search engine/data mining company
[link to www.google.org]
At Google we're helping enable a future where access to personal electricity information helps everyone make smarter energy choices. Google PowerMeter shows consumers their electricity consumption in a secure Google gadget. Today we are testing the product with utility partners in the US, India, Germany, and Canada.
We think Google PowerMeter offers more useful and actionable feedback than complicated monthly paper bills that provide little detail on consumption or how to save energy. But Google PowerMeter is just a start; it will take a lot of different groups working together to create what the world really needs: a path to smarter power.
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715576
7/8/2009 7:47 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
oh well we can always turn to water from the tap
[link to www.youtube.com] |
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^TrInItY^
Forum Administrator
7/8/2009 7:48 PM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
If you have a smart meter you can do your own test at home with one of these..
[link to www.radioshack.com]
or just use the manual method that requires no device just a little math..
Here is how..
1. If you can't kill the main break from outside at the meter then get someone in the house that can be ready to kill it while you watch the meter.
2. Wait for the meter to tick over to another kilowatt hour
3. Immediately kill the main breaker to the house... If you can't do it with one breaker then shut off the entire panel manually as fast as you can..
4. Make sure all breakers are off and the meter outside is indeed at a full stop..
5. Find the breaker to a set of power outlets in your house and make sure nothing is plugged into it.. turn on the breaker and verify that the meter is still not running with nothing plugged into the outlets..
6. When you've got a clean isolated circuit at the breaker box plug in the heaviest load device you can find (make sure you can locate the wattage on it) A hair dryer works nicely (make sure it is on high and the heat is on)...
7. Make sure the device is switched off and then turn on the breaker to the isolated circuit..
8. Mark the time exactly and turn on the device
9. Watch the meter until it ticks ahead to another kilowatt hour
10. Mark the time again when the kilowatt changed over
You've now got all the info you need and can turn your power back on..
Now...
Take the watts from the device (look on it you will find it on every devise by law somewhere) , we will use 1,500 watts for this example and divide by 60.
This is going to give you the amount of watt hours your device is using per minute for this example 25(X).
A kilowatt hour (what your meter registers) is 1000 watt hours so we now need to divide 1000 by 25 to get the amount of time our device would have to run to use 1 kilowatt hour, in this case 40 minutes (T).
A 1000 watt device should take exactly 1 hour to use a kilowatt hour.
soo
DEVICE WATTS / 60 = X
1000 / X = T
---
Easy enough...
So if you ran your 1500 watt hair dryer and it only took 20 minutes for your meter to register a kilowatt hour then you're being charged double
If your meter is working correctly your 1500 watt device on an isolated circuit should take a full 40 minutes to register a kilowatt hour..
In my test my dryer was rated at 1875 watts but was pulling 1425 and it took 18 minutes to use 1 kw hour..
---
by the way on your smart meter instead of the little spinning wheel it has little dashes -- that move across the screen.. you can tell it's totally stopped when the dashes don't move for a few minutes at all.
oh and your smart meter might be flashing between several display screens... Your kwh will probably be the only one with numbers on it... You'll just have to wait as it cycles through to see when you get the next tick up
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/8/2009 at 8:03 PM
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
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Andromeda
User ID: 708515
7/8/2009 7:52 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
the real proof will be when my electrician does his tests at his house
if he can verify then they cannot say it's an isolated incident Quoting: ^TrInItY^
It doesn't really matter if there's some condition at your property that causes the meter to go wrong, by the way.
If they don't have a meter that's flexible enough to be accurate under a wide variety of real-life conditions, they are responsible. That property of design, where something is flexible enough to be accurate under an expected range of real-life conditions is called "robustness".
If the new smart meter isn't as accurate as the old ones, for whatever reason, it's a defective design, even if there's some condition at your house or property that caused the old one to run properly and the new ones to fail. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715588
7/8/2009 7:55 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
FUCK the power grid companies !!!!!!!!!!!!
WE HAVE had the tech to be off the grid for decades now !!!
Another ponzi scheme !!
Trin if I were you I would FUCK these people as hard as possible !!!!
I am a client of the largest lawfirm in florida
They are out of Tallahassee
they help write state legislature and stuff
They will cream there pants when I come to them with 6 independent verified field tests proving double charging by a power company.. Quoting: ^TrInItY^
Trinty you live in FLA? What part? |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 716697
7/8/2009 7:59 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Trinity, if they send you a bill for that double billing, that is Federal Mail Fraud. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 714824
7/8/2009 8:03 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
I remember back in the old days you could stop the needles on the meter with magnets don't know if it still work. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721360
7/8/2009 8:05 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
I'm gonna go out there and cut the fucking main line breaker and see if that piece of shit keeps running up the bill anyway
Hmmm...probably not the wisest move man. Never a good idea to antagonize the big bad wolf establishment.
...just returning a little dose of advice given me a little earlier... 
you are gorgeous if that is you in your avatar....wanna get married? |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715588
7/8/2009 8:05 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
If you have a smart meter you can do your own test at home with one of these..
[ link to www.radioshack.com]
or just use the manual method that requires no device just a little math..
Here is how..
1. If you can't kill the main break from outside at the meter then get someone in the house that can be ready to kill it while you watch the meter.
2. Wait for the meter to tick over to another kilowatt hour
3. Immediately kill the main breaker to the house... If you can't do it with one breaker then shut off the entire panel manually as fast as you can..
4. Make sure all breakers are off and the meter outside is indeed at a full stop..
5. Find the breaker to a set of power outlets in your house and make sure nothing is plugged into it.. turn on the breaker and verify that the meter is still not running with nothing plugged into the outlets..
6. When you've got a clean isolated circuit at the breaker box plug in the heaviest load device you can find (make sure you can locate the wattage on it) A hair dryer works nicely (make sure it is on high and the heat is on)...
7. Make sure the device is switched off and then turn on the breaker to the isolated circuit..
8. Mark the time exactly and turn on the device
9. Watch the meter until it ticks ahead to another kilowatt hour
10. Mark the time again when the kilowatt changed over
You've now got all the info you need and can turn your power back on..
Now...
Take the watts from the device (look on it you will find it on every devise by law somewhere) , we will use 1,500 watts for this example and divide by 60.
This is going to give you the amount of watt hours your device is using per minute for this example 25(X).
A kilowatt hour (what your meter registers) is 1000 watt hours so we now need to divide 1000 by 25 to get the amount of time our device would have to run to use 1 kilowatt hour, in this case 40 minutes (T).
A 1000 watt device should take exactly 1 hour to use a kilowatt hour.
soo
DEVICE WATTS / 60 = X
1000 / X = T
---
Easy enough...
So if you ran your 1500 watt hair dryer and it only took 20 minutes for your meter to register a kilowatt hour then you're being charged double
If your meter is working correctly your 1500 watt device on an isolated circuit should take a full 40 minutes to register a kilowatt hour..
In my test my dryer was rated at 1875 watts but was pulling 1425 and it took 18 minutes to use 1 kw hour..
---
by the way on your smart meter instead of the little spinning wheel it has little dashes -- that move across the screen.. you can tell it's totally stopped when the dashes don't move for a few minutes at all.
oh and your smart meter might be flashing between several display screens... Your kwh will probably be the only one with numbers on it... You'll just have to wait as it cycles through to see when you get the next tick up
Trin, you with a CO-OP tied to Powersouth / Touchstone energy? If so, we need to talk bro. |
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mercury2
User ID: 218096
7/8/2009 8:06 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
I would expect that the load the power company brough was primarily resistive, but if they were truly trying to test for residential power, the load SHOULD be significantly inductive to imitate the heavy inductive loads caused by air conditioners, refrigerators and freezers. Quoting: AnTiSoShAL 715294
You are saying "The Beast" that they were using to test the meter, wasn't maybe the best thing to use, because it's drawing power a different way than ordinary household appliances, etc., do?
But if they tested "The Beast" with the Smart Meter, and then used the same thing to test the old meter, and got two different readings, that's because the two types of meter are correcting for different things, and the Smart Meter wasn't designed to measure for household current use in the first place? And "The Beast" isn't like household current use either? |
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FreeFlow
User ID: 456207
7/8/2009 8:14 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Actually the task is to account resistive power consumption only, that can be no problem with today's software calculation methods, and there wasn't any in the days of analogue hardware calculation.
A known load should produce always the same results than can even be precisely calculated knowing the exact values like phase shift, mains frequency + total consumption, doesn't matter if it is a little inductive or not ....
Last Edited by FreeFlow on 7/8/2009 at 8:37 PM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721290
7/8/2009 8:14 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
epic thread bump |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721368
7/8/2009 8:18 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
excellent idea.
Yes, you read that right - The Trinity Event.
Trinity needs to create an expose documentary based on his Big Power experiences over past months which would include his PV Solar installation. Also any energy conservation improvements he has adopted should be noted in detail. Next would come his Smart Meter experience, etc. This would include any other related anecdotal intelligence. Facts, numbers, discoveries and so forth. This should include as well various relevant pictures and professional testimonials. After all, this is good conspiracy stuff! All these episodes would be good informational material to show to others via a special GLP page which stays updated continually. All the various number data sets especially should be shown as well for any interested party to closely examine. This could prove quite educational actually. In a year or so he might also wish to have all of this stuff fully codifed and published in book form ~ and sell it online here. Godlike Productions Publishing would make its grand debut! Quoting: The Trinity Event 480429 |
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