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** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
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SHR  
Forum Administrator
7/10/2009 2:47 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
did anyone here the comercial adds about unplug your cell phone charger etc. when not in use as it still uses energy?
how in the world does it? my light switch is off and it dont draw. i figure you have to draw to get meter to go just dont understand that--but now i unplug even my coffee maker Quoting: Anonymous Coward 272605
It's called phantom loads...and you would be surprised how many of them are likely in your house. Yes things like chargers draw a small amount of current even when they aren't charging anything. If you have a fairly modern TV?..it does to...so it doesn't lose it's settings when you turn it off. Microwave ovens, coffee makers...all the same thing. Most have a battery inside like a BIOS battery in your computer so that if they become disconnected they won't lose their memories...some last longer than others, but many devices that draw a phantom load such as the typical "Wall wart" power supply for say a battery charger?...they just drain a small amount of power away as long as they are plugged in...doing their jobs or not.
____________________________________________________
E-mail anytime SHRGLP@Yahoo.com
Inquiring about a ban?, include the IP address found here. [link to www.showmyip.com]
Precious cups within the flower, deadly petals with strange power
Faces shine a deadly smile, back up on you at your trial
Chill and numbed from head to toe, icy sun with frosty glow
Wall of Sleep is lying broken, sun shines in, you have awoken |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 564424
7/10/2009 4:12 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
As you requested they came out and tested the "Smart meter".
They agreed with your findings that the meters were incorrect.
They then fixed the problem and apologized in letter.
Wow, what a conspiracy.
Trinity, it sure feels like your making mountains out of molehills. |
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Cranky
User ID: 586322
7/10/2009 4:25 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
As you requested they came out and tested the "Smart meter".
They agreed with your findings that the meters were incorrect.
They then fixed the problem and apologized in letter.
Wow, what a conspiracy.
Trinity, it sure feels like your making mountains out of molehills. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 564424
 |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 706609
7/10/2009 4:28 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
It's called phantom loads...and you would be surprised how many of them are likely in your house. Quoting: SHR
Don't forget the "phantom load" of the smart meter itself! You don't think the utility will be giving that juice away for free, do you?  |
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TRIN ^PLS READ
User ID: 625711
7/10/2009 4:47 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
you left some names on your final page of scanned notes on the document attachment |
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Windsage4 nli
User ID: 625711
7/10/2009 5:00 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
As you requested they came out and tested the "Smart meter".
They agreed with your findings that the meters were incorrect.
They then fixed the problem and apologized in letter.
Wow, what a conspiracy.
Trinity, it sure feels like your making mountains out of molehills. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 564424
The utility company is handling this like any governmental agency -- they are pre-emptively attempting to turn this into a non-event with a wave of their magic wand. WHoosh, the problem's gone,,, no problem, right? WRONG!!
This is a HUGE problem on several levels:
1. They are doofuses if they managed to let 'even' 'only' three units slip through undetected.
2. Their credibility is now verifiably damaged. How certain are the twenty thousand other clients, and all future clients, that their unit is 100% accurate? I wouldn't be.
3. They should reasonably be expected to be the experts, in their position, and therefore they have a higher responsibility for providing accurate measurement than the home-owner/user does, yet it was the home-owner who had to DO THEIR JOB for them.
4. They are mandating installation of this fictious device.
5. There isn't a state in this country that doesn't take weights and measurements deadly seriously. Each state has agencies with mountains of laws, codes, policies, and procedures in place to ensure accuracy, so I am quite certain that laws were broken. |
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^TrInItY^
Forum Administrator
7/10/2009 5:07 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Trin,
LISTEN TO ME CLOSELY. I LIVE HERE AS WELL. CHELCO IS MY SERVICE PROVIDER. YOU ARE MISSING THE BIG PICTURE
THIS IS ALL DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO POWERSOUTH IN ANDALUSIA, ALABAMA WHO IS HEAD OF ALL THESE CO-OPS, THE SUDDENLY RESIGNING SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE FOR ALABAMA - SETH HAMMETT (POWERSOUTH BOARD MEMBER AND OFFICER) THE SUDDENLY INDICTED FLORIDA SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE - RAY SANSOM (POWERSOUTH BOARD MEMBER) THE SUDDENLY RETIRING HEAD OF CHELCO AFTER 28 YEARS GENE SMITH.........AND OF COURSE ED SHORT
TRINITY, YOU GOTTA KEEP THIS PINNED AND CONNECT THE DOTS. LOOK AT THE BS "KWH CUSTOMER CHARGE" THAT HAS BEEN ON YOUR BILL FOR MONTHS NOW THAT ADDS $100 OR MORE IN "EXTRA FEES" EVERY MONTH. EVERYONE COMPLAINS ABOUT THE "EXTRA FEE" - WONDER WHERE ALL OF THAT MONEY GOES TO? EVER WONDER WHY THE PUSH TO PUT IN SMART METERS ALL OF THE SUDDEN THAT DO THIS?
LOOK WHO DECIDED AT POWERSOUTH TO PICK THESE SPECIFIC METERS FOR ALL OF THEIR CO-OPS? COINCIDENCE?
THE UNIVERSE JUST Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715588
woa dude
holy shit!
I HAD NO CLUE IT WENT THIS FAR!!
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
|
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Windsage4 nli
User ID: 625711
7/10/2009 5:11 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Utility companies are one of the biggest rackets in the world. Plenty of opportunity for legalized gangsterism. |
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^TrInItY^
Forum Administrator
7/10/2009 5:23 PM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
yea I think this thing is much bigger than I originally thought...
yesterday I sent him this email after he sent my report and I haven't heard back from them since...
Subject: Re: CHELCO Smart Meter Investigation Report - Mr. XXXX XXX
From: TRIN
Date: July 10, 2009 12:47:03 AM CDT
To: POWER COMPANY GUY
XXXX,
Thanks for the report. It really is well done.
I have some more questions.
1. Am I required to take this smart meter to be provided service from your company?
2. If I refuse this smart meter will you schedule me for disconnect and provide the reason in writing?
3. Do your other smart meters require programing by Chelco personnel before being installed in the field or do you just plug them in straight out of the box from the factory with no programing or verification?
4. If your other smart meters require programing before installation is this programing done on the same machines that programed the "net metering" configured meters?
5. Do you have the ability to read the configuration of the CT bit on the smart meters already installed in the field remotely from your central computer?
6. Since these meters clearly give the power company the ability to modify the readings at will are there any independent audits conducted as to the status of the multiple "multiplier fields" these meters contain?
7. Do you believe Chelco members have been properly informed as to the monitoring capabilities of these meters? Do you think members know you can tell when they make coffee or turn off their lights at night?
8. What are the odds of ME of all people getting 2 of the 3 meters that were configured wrong out of all the customers out there?
9. Is Chelco in the habit of installing untested and unverified equipment in the field for its' members? Not once but TWICE? You would think you'd have made damn sure the "spare meter" you brought was accurate.
Have you even read the manual for this meter of yours?
[link to eportal.landisgyr.us]
Because I have and let me tell you I am very disturbed...
(the CT bit information can be found on page 22)
You need to disclose the true capabilities of this meter to our cooperatives members.
What's the big deal about just letting me keep my old mechanical meter?
It's accurate and I like it.
I DON'T like this thing AT ALL.
Just let me keep my old meter I don't want this device on my home.
I'm sure you can understand,
XXXXXXX
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/10/2009 at 5:31 PM
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
|
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Windsage4 nli
User ID: 625711
7/10/2009 5:29 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
yea I think this thing is much bigger than I originally thought...
yesterday I sent him this email after he sent my report and I haven't heard back from them since...
Subject: Re: CHELCO Smart Meter Investigation Report - Mr. XXXX XXX
From: TRIN
Date: July 10, 2009 12:47:03 AM CDT
To: POWER COMPANY GUY
XXXXX,
Thanks for the report. It really is well done.
I have some more questions.
1. Am I required to take this smart meter to be provided service from your company?
2. If I refuse this smart meter will you schedule me for disconnect and provide the reason in writing?
3. Do your other smart meters require programing by Chelco personnel before being installed in the field or do you just plug them in straight out of the box from the factory with no programing or verification?
4. If your other smart meters require programing before installation is this programing done on the same machines that programed the "net metering" configured meters?
5. Do you have the ability to read the configuration of the CT bit on the smart meters already installed in the field remotely from your central computer?
6. Since these meters clearly give the power company the ability to modify the readings at will are there any independent audits conducted as to the status of the multiple "multiplier fields" these meters contain?
7. Do you believe Chelco members have been properly informed as to the monitoring capabilities of these meters? Do you think members know you can tell when they make coffee or turn off their lights at night?
8. What are the odds of ME of all people getting 2 of the 3 meters that were configured wrong out of all the customers out there?
9. Is Chelco in the habit of installing untested and unverified equipment in the field for its' members? Not once but TWICE? You would think you'd have made damn sure the "spare meter" you brought was accurate.
Have you even read the manual for this meter of yours?
[ link to eportal.landisgyr.us]
Because I have and let me tell you I am very disturbed...
(the CT bit information can be found on page 22)
You need to disclose the true capabilities of this meter to our cooperatives members.
What's the big deal about just letting me keep my old mechanical meter?
It's accurate and I like it.
I DON'T like this thing AT ALL.
Just let me keep my old meter I don't want this device on my home.
I'm sure you can understand,
XXXXXXX
Ha ha ha, I guarantee you their legal department and upper management are reviewing this for a carefully crafted reply, this is most amusing.
I really want to thank you Trinity for jumping on this and handling it in a straightfoward way. This is very useful information.
p.s., their report should have a signature if a P.E. wrote it.
(edit to remove power company guys name)
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/10/2009 at 5:32 PM |
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^TrInItY^
Forum Administrator
7/10/2009 6:11 PM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Ya know I was thinking about this current scaling and multiplier feature this thing seems to have. According to the docs from Landis these things have a settable range of 1-240. Doesn't make sense that say if setting number 2 doubled the reading that the next setting 3 would triple and on and on...not only would be no common sense reason to have a 240x display of what the actual draw was, it would severely limit what that scaling could be practically used for which is likely to tune the meter to 110-115-120-130, at least what common sense would tell me it would probably be used for. So was thinking the actual CT multiplier might have been set at 120...half way would be 2x....could make sense...but the base for that particular meter would have to be lowest voltage they would want to read. Tell ya why later this whole thing starts to stink.
I know a bit about electrical engineering...probably just enough to be dangerous...lol...but I know from my stuff being several voltages and sometimes requiring a transformer etc etc a bit about current and load.
When voltage goes down?..Current/Amps go up.
Just to take round numbers say a 440V device takes 50 Amps to run. If you change the taps for that same device to run on 220v?...it now draws 100 AMPS. If you could tap it down to 110V...it would need 200 AMPS. The reason a lot of big commercial services use 440v or 460v is because as you need more AMPs?...you need bigger wiring, wire is expensive. At 50 AMPS that device needs say 6 gage wire...at 100?...it might 1/0....that's a real big cost increase. It's also why you see small "High tension wires" running to your transformer.....they carry maybe 1760 volts...but at 25 AMPS....after they hit your transformer they get stepped down to 220v...but they now carry 200 amps so you see small wires high voltage going in, fat wires low voltage high current going out.
That's just a real basic tutorial of how Voltage and Current work and get transmitted. I'm sure Trin you knew that, but I want other people who might not see how that works so they can get their heads around it and I'll tell ya why and how that whole electrical science might end up being a big point leverage, can of worms this power co and really all power companies might not want opened up.
Ok so it appears that Meters register draw/current/Amps. Ever take a volt meter and check a few sockets in your own home?...Notice that they almost always reads lower than 120 volts?...well...now your meter is calibrated to read 120 volts...AMPS x VOLTS = KW...so say I was a power company....and I wanted to sell more of my product...electricity. All I need to do is pump out 110v to everyone I deal to and what happens?..all the draws automatically go up right around 10%, the meter reads that increased current and I automatically sell 10% more of my product to everyone without really selling any more at all, the meter just says I do, because it's calibrated to a higher voltage than I am actually receiving. No one ever knows, all devices function just fine and I just make more pure profit.
Meter at 120v actual current 120v draw 50 amps = 50x120=6000 = 6kw
Meter at 120v actual current 110v draw 55 amps = 55x120=6600 = 6.6kw
10% across million of customers?....it's huge...and who would know. Even 5% and varrying?...still huge. If people were made of aware of that simple concept?...I bet there would be a lot of angry people....they wouldn't like that would they.... Quoting: SHR
you're onto something here bro...
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
|
|
SHR
Forum Administrator
7/10/2009 6:31 PM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Meter at 120v actual current 120v draw 50 amps = 50x120=6000 = 6kw
Meter at 120v actual current 110v draw 55 amps = 55x120=6600 = 6.6kw
10% across million of customers?....it's huge...and who would know. Even 5% and varrying?...still huge. If people were made of aware of that simple concept?...I bet there would be a lot of angry people....they wouldn't like that would they....
you're onto something here bro...
I'm glad you replied and caught it....I think so too...could you imagine the shockwave accross the Electrical utility industry if it could be proven that a consistant under voltage condition was present?...Holy fuck it would be huge...people getting ripped off for years. Even at a couple or few percent?...it would add up to Billions.
Maybe apply some pressure and Follow up your previous e-mail with something like this....see if they react.
10. Do these new smart meters measure and compensate for common changes in Voltages supplied as well as current?
11. If a Co-Op customer were supplied an Under-voltage service resulting in increased current draw, would the meter read more KWH's for this condition?
12. Is it common practice for Electrical Utilities to supply under voltage service thus resulting in an increased meter reading for the same overall level of electrical power supplied?
Optional...
13 1/2....Do you realize the giant shitstorm I might stir up ya weasels?.
Bro if you have a volt meter,....take a couple readings...I bet they are a few volts at least low, I've checked some of my own in the past and they are always consistantly a few volts low...this could become the class action of the century if was proven to be deliberate, which it would virtually have to be.
Last Edited by SHR on 7/10/2009 at 6:38 PM
____________________________________________________
E-mail anytime SHRGLP@Yahoo.com
Inquiring about a ban?, include the IP address found here. [link to www.showmyip.com]
Precious cups within the flower, deadly petals with strange power
Faces shine a deadly smile, back up on you at your trial
Chill and numbed from head to toe, icy sun with frosty glow
Wall of Sleep is lying broken, sun shines in, you have awoken |
|
Tully D
User ID: 722880
7/10/2009 6:41 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
yea I think this thing is much bigger than I originally thought...
yesterday I sent him this email after he sent my report and I haven't heard back from them since...
Subject: Re: CHELCO Smart Meter Investigation Report - Mr. XXXX XXX
From: TRIN
Date: July 10, 2009 12:47:03 AM CDT
To: POWER COMPANY GUY
XXXX,
Thanks for the report. It really is well done.
I have some more questions.
1. Am I required to take this smart meter to be provided service from your company?
2. If I refuse this smart meter will you schedule me for disconnect and provide the reason in writing?
3. Do your other smart meters require programing by Chelco personnel before being installed in the field or do you just plug them in straight out of the box from the factory with no programing or verification?
4. If your other smart meters require programing before installation is this programing done on the same machines that programed the "net metering" configured meters?
5. Do you have the ability to read the configuration of the CT bit on the smart meters already installed in the field remotely from your central computer?
6. Since these meters clearly give the power company the ability to modify the readings at will are there any independent audits conducted as to the status of the multiple "multiplier fields" these meters contain?
7. Do you believe Chelco members have been properly informed as to the monitoring capabilities of these meters? Do you think members know you can tell when they make coffee or turn off their lights at night?
8. What are the odds of ME of all people getting 2 of the 3 meters that were configured wrong out of all the customers out there?
9. Is Chelco in the habit of installing untested and unverified equipment in the field for its' members? Not once but TWICE? You would think you'd have made damn sure the "spare meter" you brought was accurate.
Have you even read the manual for this meter of yours?
[ link to eportal.landisgyr.us]
Because I have and let me tell you I am very disturbed...
(the CT bit information can be found on page 22)
You need to disclose the true capabilities of this meter to our cooperatives members.
What's the big deal about just letting me keep my old mechanical meter?
It's accurate and I like it.
I DON'T like this thing AT ALL.
Just let me keep my old meter I don't want this device on my home.
I'm sure you can understand,
XXXXXXX
Whoa...those are very pointed questions. I think you've got their attention big time.
...I suspect those X's at the end...weren't kisses, lol.
~ Write your fairytale ~ |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715588
7/10/2009 6:49 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Trin the answer to the TV question is yes. Compare IP addresses if you know what I mean to confirm identity. Don't want to put it in all one place in case it gets "intercepted". |
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chalcedony
User ID: 576799
7/10/2009 6:54 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Thinking how these smart meters might eventually be used to a logical conclusion:
Many of us in California have odd/even watering days and days that we are not allowed to use our fireplaces...
You may one day find that you are only able to turn on your dishwasher/lights/airconditoner ect. at appointed times.
Just think if automobliles go electrical. You only have x number of hours to re-charge thereby limiting your available driving time.
Even better, if you go over your alloted amount you get to pay a hefty fine/surcharge... a new way to generate serious income.
Rationed power seems to be coming our way... excited yet?
Trinity can you get a few of your nearby neighbors to allow you access to test their smart meters? It would seem logical to check them. Also have there been Chelco trucks in your neighborhood or on your street since your little problem? I'd keep my eyes wide open if I were you.
Chalcedony is not really known by its name...
Why be a hard rock when you really are a gem?
Get me out of here. |
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Jeanne
User ID: 722139
7/10/2009 7:01 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
O.K.
Here is a link to the original report in .pdf format...
It's a 25 meg file... sorry about that...
[ link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Please everyone who is interested have a read and let me know your comments..
It clearly admits to the doubling of metered kilowatt hours on 2 out of the box smart meters but then tries to explain it as a freak thing that only affected me and one other guy on their system...
Please give me your input on this report..
Thanks
They try to kill the free and critical speech with the power of money.
I know more and more sites of alternative media, who have big money troubles.
So they want to klii and shut down free speech.
Those bastards.
The Antichrist is coming.
Eyerybody will become a nummer, a sign of the Beast. You are only to allowed to buy and sell with the nummber of the Beast.
It is already introduced. |
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Jeanne
User ID: 722139
7/10/2009 7:04 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Thinking how these smart meters might eventually be used to a logical conclusion:
Many of us in California have odd/even watering days and days that we are not allowed to use our fireplaces...
You may one day find that you are only able to turn on your dishwasher/lights/airconditoner ect. at appointed times.
Just think if automobliles go electrical. You only have x number of hours to re-charge thereby limiting your available driving time.
Even better, if you go over your alloted amount you get to pay a hefty fine/surcharge... a new way to generate serious income.
Rationed power seems to be coming our way... excited yet?
Trinity can you get a few of your nearby neighbors to allow you access to test their smart meters? It would seem logical to check them. Also have there been Chelco trucks in your neighborhood or on your street since your little problem? I'd keep my eyes wide open if I were you. Quoting: chalcedony
The US-Government is bankrupt, experts like LEAP predicted it.
Do not wonder about their actions, they will try everything to grab money of the people. |
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chalcedony
User ID: 576799
7/10/2009 7:12 PM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
The US-Government is bankrupt, experts like LEAP predicted it.
Do not wonder about their actions, they will try everything to grab money of the people. Quoting: Jeanne 722139
Except of course what is logical....
SPEND LESS.
Chalcedony is not really known by its name...
Why be a hard rock when you really are a gem?
Get me out of here. |
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Rajinisback
User ID: 722915
7/10/2009 7:23 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Hi Trinity,
I just read the post to start this thread. Maybe someone has already said what I am about to say.
1) According to the installers of the new smart grid this system will be able to monitor/record your power usage/water usage much much more accurtatly then the old stuff.
2) This sounds good to you since they also tell you your going to save $$.
3) They install the new system. You notice your power bill will double. You think you got screwed and the new system don't work.
Well...
4) I have come to the conclusion the new system is suppose to raise your power bill/water bill on purpose. Why? Because they will tell you that you have been using this much power/water all this time and the old system simply did not monitor/record it as accuratly as the new system.
5. End Result? YOU NEED TO TAKE 2 MINUTE SHOWERS AND PAINT YOUR ROOF TOP WHITE AND DON'T USE SO MUCH POWER!! YOUR DESTROYING THE PLANET!!!.
Yes this new smart grid will screw everyone over and make no mistake about it...Google runs it too.
Google energizes efforts to cut consumer electric bills:
[link to www.computerworld.com]
Google PowerMeter... err, powers your power meter: [link to blogs.computerworld.com]
I absolutely hate Google for these and many other reasons.
Thanks for Reading. This is my first post.
Rajinisback |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 374095
7/10/2009 7:34 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Thinking how these smart meters might eventually be used to a logical conclusion:
Many of us in California have odd/even watering days and days that we are not allowed to use our fireplaces...
You may one day find that you are only able to turn on your dishwasher/lights/airconditoner ect. at appointed times.
Just think if automobliles go electrical. You only have x number of hours to re-charge thereby limiting your available driving time.
Even better, if you go over your alloted amount you get to pay a hefty fine/surcharge... a new way to generate serious income.
Rationed power seems to be coming our way... excited yet?
Trinity can you get a few of your nearby neighbors to allow you access to test their smart meters? It would seem logical to check them. Also have there been Chelco trucks in your neighborhood or on your street since your little problem? I'd keep my eyes wide open if I were you. Quoting: chalcedony
That is exactly what will happen to varying degrees.
It will start as a financial incentive to use major appliances at certain periods.
To controlling the temperature and limiting the amount of time certain appliances are allowed to run.
With emergency provisions built in to direct current flow to deemed necessary appliances.During distressed generation periods.
I envision a scenario of tiered consumers.
Those able to afford a membership fee will be guaranteed an amount of KWH,those unable to afford the membership will be rationed during peak use to redirect flow of electricity to members and deemed critical infrastructure. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 374095
7/10/2009 7:59 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
The ultimate goal of the utility with the smart grid technology is to sell their product similar to gasoline.
The price will flucuate according to market conditions.
These smart meters will allow them to set prices at will.
The consumer is going to have a much more active role.
This is Californias concept of energy distribution
[link to www.caiso.com] |
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Fribbler
User ID: 590289
7/10/2009 8:13 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
My monthly kilowatt usage was 2750 last month
They put this new meter on my house tuesday and so far it says I've used 900 kilowatt hours!
It's been less than a week!
That means I'm gonna be DOUBLE the usage I was on the old meter
This is total bullshit
I have to get over to full solar ASAP Quoting: ^TrInItY^
HI, tryed to post a convo i hadwith my totaly atheist friend who has just passed a degree on international relations with a 1st, trying to post the convo we had on msn abut illuminati ect.. but its saying' to many smileys'. could i send it to you via e-mail or somethig because i think it is a good example of basicaly everythign on this site. alternitivaly could i email it to you.
Thankyou, fribbler.
Oh ps, so thankful i kept my old elecy box despite the letters tellig me i NEED to change!
"We apologise for the inconvenience" - gods final message. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 719655
7/10/2009 8:55 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
yea I think this thing is much bigger than I originally thought...
yesterday I sent him this email after he sent my report and I haven't heard back from them since...
Subject: Re: CHELCO Smart Meter Investigation Report - Mr. XXXX XXX
From: TRIN
Date: July 10, 2009 12:47:03 AM CDT
To: POWER COMPANY GUY
XXXX,
Thanks for the report. It really is well done.
I have some more questions.
1. Am I required to take this smart meter to be provided service from your company?
2. If I refuse this smart meter will you schedule me for disconnect and provide the reason in writing?
3. Do your other smart meters require programing by Chelco personnel before being installed in the field or do you just plug them in straight out of the box from the factory with no programing or verification?
4. If your other smart meters require programing before installation is this programing done on the same machines that programed the "net metering" configured meters?
5. Do you have the ability to read the configuration of the CT bit on the smart meters already installed in the field remotely from your central computer?
6. Since these meters clearly give the power company the ability to modify the readings at will are there any independent audits conducted as to the status of the multiple "multiplier fields" these meters contain?
7. Do you believe Chelco members have been properly informed as to the monitoring capabilities of these meters? Do you think members know you can tell when they make coffee or turn off their lights at night?
8. What are the odds of ME of all people getting 2 of the 3 meters that were configured wrong out of all the customers out there?
9. Is Chelco in the habit of installing untested and unverified equipment in the field for its' members? Not once but TWICE? You would think you'd have made damn sure the "spare meter" you brought was accurate.
Have you even read the manual for this meter of yours?
[ link to eportal.landisgyr.us]
Because I have and let me tell you I am very disturbed...
(the CT bit information can be found on page 22)
You need to disclose the true capabilities of this meter to our cooperatives members.
What's the big deal about just letting me keep my old mechanical meter?
It's accurate and I like it.
I DON'T like this thing AT ALL.
Just let me keep my old meter I don't want this device on my home.
I'm sure you can understand,
XXXXXXX
excellent thought. Do we have to have these smart meters. Were going to all wood stoves this winter. I'd advise everyone going to an alternative energy source than electricity. Problem is. All the communications devices run on electricity and can be monitored. Which is what this is really all about. They have all the money they'll ever need. THEy want to monitor people. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 723020
7/10/2009 9:51 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
did anyone here the comercial adds about unplug your cell phone charger etc. when not in use as it still uses energy?
how in the world does it? my light switch is off and it dont draw. i figure you have to draw to get meter to go just dont understand that--but now i unplug even my coffee maker
It's called phantom loads...and you would be surprised how many of them are likely in your house. Yes things like chargers draw a small amount of current even when they aren't charging anything. If you have a fairly modern TV?..it does to...so it doesn't lose it's settings when you turn it off. Microwave ovens, coffee makers...all the same thing. Most have a battery inside like a BIOS battery in your computer so that if they become disconnected they won't lose their memories...some last longer than others, but many devices that draw a phantom load such as the typical "Wall wart" power supply for say a battery charger?...they just drain a small amount of power away as long as they are plugged in...doing their jobs or not. Quoting: SHR
Television sets, for example, use a micro to turn the set on. That's why they have a button instead of the old line connected switch. For the micro to get its 5 volts, the power supply in the set is always on. Most are switching supplies like a computer uses. AC converted to DC which is pulsed across a transformer and then regulated with feedback to use more when needed and less when not needed. That power supply runs 150VDC or so. Always on.
Most appliances do not have a BIOS style battery. The ICs use a non volatile memory. I worked on consumer electronics for years and didn't see batteries in much of anything. A lot of them use a high capacity capacitor for energy storage but the rest simply use non volatile memory. I have a scanner, for example, that I left the batteries out of for six months. The freqs were still there when I installed batteries.
The wall warts are not just a transformer, they are a complete power supply in the cube. That includes rectifiers, capacitors for filtering and voltage regulators. There is some usage of power.
Those phantom loads are called phantom for a reason. They use nearly nothing in power. Certainly, not enough to run a meter up any appreciable amount. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 723020
7/10/2009 9:56 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Thinking how these smart meters might eventually be used to a logical conclusion:
Many of us in California have odd/even watering days and days that we are not allowed to use our fireplaces...
You may one day find that you are only able to turn on your dishwasher/lights/airconditoner ect. at appointed times.
Just think if automobliles go electrical. You only have x number of hours to re-charge thereby limiting your available driving time.
Even better, if you go over your alloted amount you get to pay a hefty fine/surcharge... a new way to generate serious income.
Rationed power seems to be coming our way... excited yet?
A similar thing happened to a local radio show host in regards to prescription cold meds. The driver's licenses in NC have a mag stripe on the back. Apparently, the pharmacy scans it when they sell you meds because the local radio guy was told he couldn't buy more because he had used up his allotment per state law on how much you can buy. It's supposed to stop meth makers, lol.
As for the meters, a local meter changer told me the other day that they are reading them via radio now and soon they will be read from the central office. He also said that they know what time and day a meter has been pulled from a socket (I was told this because I had pulled a meter. I'm an electrician and have to pull them sometimes. He said that any power outages are also logged meter by meter.
Yes, it is more control.
Trinity can you get a few of your nearby neighbors to allow you access to test their smart meters? It would seem logical to check them. Also have there been Chelco trucks in your neighborhood or on your street since your little problem? I'd keep my eyes wide open if I were you. Quoting: chalcedony |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 722129
7/10/2009 11:03 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
did anyone here the comercial adds about unplug your cell phone charger etc. when not in use as it still uses energy?
how in the world does it? my light switch is off and it dont draw. i figure you have to draw to get meter to go just dont understand that--but now i unplug even my coffee maker
It's called phantom loads...and you would be surprised how many of them are likely in your house. Yes things like chargers draw a small amount of current even when they aren't charging anything. If you have a fairly modern TV?..it does to...so it doesn't lose it's settings when you turn it off. Microwave ovens, coffee makers...all the same thing. Most have a battery inside like a BIOS battery in your computer so that if they become disconnected they won't lose their memories...some last longer than others, but many devices that draw a phantom load such as the typical "Wall wart" power supply for say a battery charger?...they just drain a small amount of power away as long as they are plugged in...doing their jobs or not.
Television sets, for example, use a micro to turn the set on. That's why they have a button instead of the old line connected switch. For the micro to get its 5 volts, the power supply in the set is always on. Most are switching supplies like a computer uses. AC converted to DC which is pulsed across a transformer and then regulated with feedback to use more when needed and less when not needed. That power supply runs 150VDC or so. Always on.
Most appliances do not have a BIOS style battery. The ICs use a non volatile memory. I worked on consumer electronics for years and didn't see batteries in much of anything. A lot of them use a high capacity capacitor for energy storage but the rest simply use non volatile memory. I have a scanner, for example, that I left the batteries out of for six months. The freqs were still there when I installed batteries.
The wall warts are not just a transformer, they are a complete power supply in the cube. That includes rectifiers, capacitors for filtering and voltage regulators. There is some usage of power.
Those phantom loads are called phantom for a reason. They use nearly nothing in power. Certainly, not enough to run a meter up any appreciable amount. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 723020
I have similar credentials, and I ask that you consider this:
Millions of warm wall-warts, not connected to anything, but consuming power. Yes, these things ALWAYS consume power, and you should know this fact. Just feel your cell phone charger, or whatever...they produce heat, therefore they consume power.
Not as big a deal as portrayed, but the numbers add up. |
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Wasayo
User ID: 4599
7/10/2009 11:40 PM
 | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
Digital meters here are named ECHELON
things that make you go hmmmm.......
isn't it the same company that listens to everyone's phone calls?
hmmm...
Yes, actually. Quoting: Mister Obvious
"Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him." Prov. 30:5 |
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SHR
Forum Administrator
7/11/2009 12:40 AM
| | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
did anyone here the comercial adds about unplug your cell phone charger etc. when not in use as it still uses energy?
how in the world does it? my light switch is off and it dont draw. i figure you have to draw to get meter to go just dont understand that--but now i unplug even my coffee maker
It's called phantom loads...and you would be surprised how many of them are likely in your house. Yes things like chargers draw a small amount of current even when they aren't charging anything. If you have a fairly modern TV?..it does to...so it doesn't lose it's settings when you turn it off. Microwave ovens, coffee makers...all the same thing. Most have a battery inside like a BIOS battery in your computer so that if they become disconnected they won't lose their memories...some last longer than others, but many devices that draw a phantom load such as the typical "Wall wart" power supply for say a battery charger?...they just drain a small amount of power away as long as they are plugged in...doing their jobs or not.
Television sets, for example, use a micro to turn the set on. That's why they have a button instead of the old line connected switch. For the micro to get its 5 volts, the power supply in the set is always on. Most are switching supplies like a computer uses. AC converted to DC which is pulsed across a transformer and then regulated with feedback to use more when needed and less when not needed. That power supply runs 150VDC or so. Always on.
Most appliances do not have a BIOS style battery. The ICs use a non volatile memory. I worked on consumer electronics for years and didn't see batteries in much of anything. A lot of them use a high capacity capacitor for energy storage but the rest simply use non volatile memory. I have a scanner, for example, that I left the batteries out of for six months. The freqs were still there when I installed batteries.
The wall warts are not just a transformer, they are a complete power supply in the cube. That includes rectifiers, capacitors for filtering and voltage regulators. There is some usage of power.
Those phantom loads are called phantom for a reason. They use nearly nothing in power. Certainly, not enough to run a meter up any appreciable amount. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 723020
BIOS style battery is just the principal...it could be a cap or whatever, but what it does is pretty much the same, it holds settings when power is cut off. Any device that requires resetting if it loses power?...most likely draws a phantom load. Anything that has a display or an LED lit when off?...phantom load, they are called "Phantom loads" because they draw power when the device is turned off, not because they draw little power. There have been many studies done on this, some even say that such devices as DVD players use more power averaged when they are off then when they are on, but I seriously doubt that in most cases. Most reasonable ones come out at about 1.5KWH per day per household. Add that up at an average of about .10 a KWH? it's 50 or so bucks a year for the average household. Millions of average households?....it adds up quick.
SACRAMENTO, CA — A California study of residential electricity use has determined that 39% of the electricity consumed by small electronic devices (including televisions, set-top boxes, DVD players, and computer equipment) is used while the devices are turned off but operating in standby or phantom load mode.
In 50 studied houses, the average electricity consumed by the devices was 1,063 kWh per year, of which 651 kWh was consumed while the devices were turned on. The devices had a “phantom load” — that is, electricity consumed while the devices were not being used — of 412 kWh per year.
The results of the study contradict the estimates of energy consultants who claim that such devices use more energy when “off” than on. The study was conducted by Ecos Consulting, EPRI Solutions, and RLW Analytics and funded by the California Energy Commission. For more information, visit
[link to www.greenbuildingadvisor.com]
____________________________________________________
E-mail anytime SHRGLP@Yahoo.com
Inquiring about a ban?, include the IP address found here. [link to www.showmyip.com]
Precious cups within the flower, deadly petals with strange power
Faces shine a deadly smile, back up on you at your trial
Chill and numbed from head to toe, icy sun with frosty glow
Wall of Sleep is lying broken, sun shines in, you have awoken |
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Bean There
User ID: 722052
7/11/2009 8:42 AM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
I want to thank you also, Trin .
What got me was even the mechanical meters cross tested were off an even 0.5 min overcharge per KWH.
My bill , ball park , lets see , 1,700 KWH / 11 = 154.54 KWH x 0.14 per = 21.63 per month in overage charges ?
That was before our recently added "Smart" thingie. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 125108
7/14/2009 1:31 PM | | Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18 | Quote |
for any updates, Trin? |
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