There's a power metering device you should acquire for your own purposes anyway. The mfr. name is BRAND Manufacturing as I recall. They are up in New England somewhere. Search it out on the web. Many PV Solar companies know about them and use their products for verifying electric load power consumptions when designing PV system installations. Using that device [or something similar] you could PROVE what your actual power usages are when the local power weasels show up to argue differently. They may not like it, but that is more than fair to do don't you think?
Quoting: fair 448008
We have one called a "Kill-o-Watt". Great little device.
When I went solar I had a electric co employee at my gate demanding to look at the meter. They thought I had altered it to steal power.
yea they already sent out 4 guys from the power company on monday to check my shit out
then they came with the smart meter the NEXT DAY
Quoting: ^TrInItY^
Don't take this as gospel but your 220v circuts run power both ways: into your service feed and OUT of your service feed. They are only supposed to measure (and bill) for one wire. MAYBE the new meters measure BOTH wires! Which would nearly double your bill especially if you use a lot of 220v stuff.
*
Trinity the other day you posted that you were going 100% solar and that you were NOT going to get the meter. I posted something like, "This is one of the stated goals of Communism and listed in the Ten Planks of their Communist Manifesto!" So now why did you take this meter?
Odds are they will convince you that you are in need of Prozac and that the meter was always wrong so you owe years of back money. You will get an immediate home inspection for "safety issues" then be brought to Room 101 to meet O'Brien.
Quoting: Cranky
because I'm not ready to switch over 100% to solar and when I complained they showed up with 4 guys from the power company and told me I have to take it if I want power
then they came and installed it the next day Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
AnTiSoShAL User ID: 715294 7/5/2009 6:29 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
You might wanna read up on power factors and metering. Older meters were exceptionally, almost retardedly inaccurate because of the way they worked. Depending on what you were powering, it was possible to be off by more than a multiple of two. The electric company factors this in and typically errored on the up side on average. For industrial power they will come in and measure the type of loading you have and put in a corrector to bring it back in line. If you were drawing an inductive or capacative load to an extreme before, its possible that youve been under-metering and underpaying all this time. New meters measure properly regardless of the phase angle of your load, so they might be measuring the proper load now. Its just a possibility, m not saying its for sure.
On the other side of this, its possible (but illegal) to deliberately correct your phase to under report your power on older meters as well.
Are you running a data center, large fans or any other motor driven loads? Also, if you have your grid tie system installed in certain ways, it can throw your power factor (phase) off quite a bit, and the electric company will need to correct for that. If the installers of the new meter werent told to, they would simply install the new meter and never even look at your load phase.
I have a different calculation regarding your test.
18 minutes is exactly .3 hours. .3 hours times 1.875 KW is equal to .5625 KWH.
Even with this calculation, if the meter ran up 9 KWH, something is really crazy here.
machobird
Quoting: machobird 606437
no it ran up 1kwh in 18 min with an 1875 watt load
according to my calculations that should have taken 32 mins right?
you're saying it should have used half a kwh but it used a whole so you concur they are stiffing me
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/5/2009 at 6:32 PM Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 718874 7/5/2009 6:32 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
We went down that road as well. Sent the meter to TX A&M for testing. It came back as calibrated within their (TXU's) range. When they realized we weren't going away, the usage amounts dropped; however, we watch the bills comparing them to years prior, weather data, and to months when we travel, and the usage amounts are still very high. I am convinced they have 'set' the meters to reach their revenue goals.
.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 717523 7/5/2009 6:32 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
used to be that you could unplug the glass bulb meter with the whirly gig, plug it in upside down-and it would reverse your KWH usage-and drop your bill!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 712683 7/5/2009 6:34 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
You would think that the meter would have to be accredited to be used in a business transaction.
Scales that are used to sell goods have to be inspected and certified... gas pumps have to be certified. Why not power meters?
Quoting: LURKING
Measuring actual AC power consumption is by no means a simple thing. There is a lot of wiggle room. Chances are the shmuck that checks your meter in the field doesn't know an electron from a can of mixed vegetables.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 618285 7/5/2009 6:35 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
You would think that the meter would have to be accredited to be used in a business transaction.
Scales that are used to sell goods have to be inspected and certified... gas pumps have to be certified. Why not power meters?
Measuring actual AC power consumption is by no means a simple thing. There is a lot of wiggle room. Chances are the shmuck that checks your meter in the field doesn't know an electron from a can of mixed vegetables.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 712683
Ummm... I'm well aware of that. I have been working (and teaching) electronics since 1980.
I think maybe you are referring to the OP. Thats not me. "The Truth is so valuable that it must be protected with a bodyguard of lies"
Winston Churchill
Punted from GLP for the last time by unresponsive mods. Have gone to greener pastures where there is more professionalism.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 374095 7/5/2009 6:37 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
.3 x 1.8= .5KWh thereabouts would be the correct usage.
I suspect your new meter needs to be load corrected. With a Grid tie system you are typically running a resultant capacitive load, and meters are typically load corrected for an inductive load because the average household has refrigerators and air conditioners that use the bulk of the power. Without correcting for that, the air conditioning would appear to draw almost no power with an old meter.
I have a different calculation regarding your test.
18 minutes is exactly .3 hours. .3 hours times 1.875 KW is equal to .5625 KWH.
Even with this calculation, if the meter ran up 9 KWH, something is really crazy here.
machobird
no it ran up 1kwh in 18 min with an 1875 watt load
according to my calculations that should have taken 32 mins right?
you're saying it should have used half a kwh but it used a whole so you concur they are stiffing me
Quoting: ^TrInItY^
32 mns. is correct...I get 31.25, actually To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q...
Anonymous Coward User ID: 651707 7/5/2009 6:39 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
You would think that the meter would have to be accredited to be used in a business transaction.
Scales that are used to sell goods have to be inspected and certified... gas pumps have to be certified. Why not power meters?
Measuring actual AC power consumption is by no means a simple thing. There is a lot of wiggle room. Chances are the shmuck that checks your meter in the field doesn't know an electron from a can of mixed vegetables.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 712683
Most all of the new meters installed today send the watt usage right back to the pwr company thru the power lines so no more meter readers have to come out and read them anym,ore, killed their jobs to
My bet is that you will hear something like, "Well sir we are sorry but your old meter was wrong and so as a result you owe us $1,000,000,000,000.00 and it is due on the 15th!"
Anonymous Coward User ID: 717523 7/5/2009 6:50 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
another possibility
your electrical supplier may do what seattle city light was caught doing
not bothering to send out people to read your meter-but guestimating from your past history-use care in raising a stink-you MIGHT find you owe them money-as they have not accurately recorded you power usage for some time
one woman discovered a $3000 light bill-though it was usually $500/month-and her account was up to date
sometimes they over charged based
i got a $50 refund for several months-I though my usage and costs were way too much for a small studio apt
another possibility
your electrical supplier may do what seattle city light was caught doing
not bothering to send out people to read your meter-but guestimating from your past history-use care in raising a stink-you MIGHT find you owe them money-as they have not accurately recorded you power usage for some time
one woman discovered a $3000 light bill-though it was usually $500/month-and her account was up to date
sometimes they over charged based
i got a $50 refund for several months-I though my usage and costs were way too much for a small studio apt
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717523
I did a load test
I can prove they are doubling the load
I'v already emailed the engineers
I want them to come out and and I'll prove it to them too
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/5/2009 at 6:53 PM Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 639218 7/5/2009 6:54 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
Trinity
By Article 690 of NEC(National Electrical Code)any DC power suuply shall be seperately grounded(Independed ground rod)
from AC (alternative current).
Anyway going back to your problem. The only time u may have this type of meter reading is if your wirring is really a mess. On other hand people sometimes taking a pitch from the saleseman and going to install battery back-up system on the top of solar panel connected directly to grid. Big mistake. baterry itself charging continiusly and taking anyway between 40 - 70% of the total value of the array.
another possibility
your electrical supplier may do what seattle city light was caught doing
not bothering to send out people to read your meter-but guestimating from your past history-use care in raising a stink-you MIGHT find you owe them money-as they have not accurately recorded you power usage for some time
one woman discovered a $3000 light bill-though it was usually $500/month-and her account was up to date
sometimes they over charged based
i got a $50 refund for several months-I though my usage and costs were way too much for a small studio apt
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717523
Again, new meters send the wattage use to the power company thru the power lines, so no meter reader comes out this way/.
Another non stop perfect example that people dont read all of the replies
Trinity
By Article 690 of NEC(National Electrical Code)any DC power suuply shall be seperately grounded(Independed ground rod)
from AC (alternative current).
Anyway going back to your problem. The only time u may have this type of meter reading is if your wirring is really a mess. On other hand people sometimes taking a pitch from the saleseman and going to install battery back-up system on the top of solar panel connected directly to grid. Big mistake. baterry itself charging continiusly and taking anyway between 40 - 70% of the total value of the array.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 639218
the DC is grounded separately
the AC from the inverters output is grounded to the house AC ground as it should be
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/5/2009 at 6:59 PM Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 718951 7/5/2009 7:04 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
another possibility
your electrical supplier may do what seattle city light was caught doing
not bothering to send out people to read your meter-but guestimating from your past history-use care in raising a stink-you MIGHT find you owe them money-as they have not accurately recorded you power usage for some time
one woman discovered a $3000 light bill-though it was usually $500/month-and her account was up to date
sometimes they over charged based
i got a $50 refund for several months-I though my usage and costs were way too much for a small studio apt
I did a load test
I can prove they are doubling the load
I'v already emailed the engineers
I want them to come out and and I'll prove it to them too
Quoting: ^TrInItY^
This is outrageous. You've got the means to pay in order to keep your power on while you fight the battle but can you imagine what this will do to the many people who don't?
I wish you much luck. Keep us posted.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 717669 7/5/2009 7:05 PM
Re: ** ORIGINAL COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MY POWER COMPANY ADMITTING TO DOUBLE CHARGING ON SMART METERS IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD ON PAGE 18
another possibility
your electrical supplier may do what seattle city light was caught doing
not bothering to send out people to read your meter-but guestimating from your past history-use care in raising a stink-you MIGHT find you owe them money-as they have not accurately recorded you power usage for some time
one woman discovered a $3000 light bill-though it was usually $500/month-and her account was up to date
sometimes they over charged based
i got a $50 refund for several months-I though my usage and costs were way too much for a small studio apt
Again, new meters send the wattage use to the power company thru the power lines, so no meter reader comes out this way/.
Another non stop perfect example that people dont read all of the replies
Quoting: tvtech3
I have the new digital meter, still have a meter reader, bill was estimated last month. Must not have the auto transmit stuff in my area yet.
There is a possibility that they are dicking you by changing the way they correct for the power factor.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread by AnTiSoShAL. But some equipment has the ability to automatically switch capacitance into the circuit to keep the circuit at a set power factor.
Last Edited by LURKING on 7/5/2009 at 7:14 PM "The Truth is so valuable that it must be protected with a bodyguard of lies"
Winston Churchill
Punted from GLP for the last time by unresponsive mods. Have gone to greener pastures where there is more professionalism.
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