The Startling Identity of the 144,000 of Revelation | |
Rastifar 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
hawk nli 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "They must all be men, because they did not defile themselves with women" and "They are all male parthenoi in Greek, or sexually pure. This could mean these men had never had sexual relations, had never been sexually immoral, or that in their current state, they were unable to have those type of relations." sounds like the 144 are all gay men. |
Lester 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If there is anything "startling" here in this article it is the author, David Lowe´s admission that he is a deceived and deluded Rapture Cult member! Here is another example of the failure of "study"; albeit, a scholarly effort. The guy even cites "the gospel of nicodemus". This is simply a piece by a Carnally-confused Christian to rationalize non-Scriptural concepts he wants to believe in. Yet what Lowe does not realize is that God does not promulgate lies or liars. The author states on another work he has published on the raptureready.com website: "Before I go any further, the readers should know that this author believes in a pre-70th week of Daniel catching away of the church. I have studied the other rapture scenarios, and have concluded that the pre-tribulation scenario is demanded ... I have been greatly influenced by Perry Stone, Jr. in my studies of Bible prophecy." The idea of a pre or mid Tribulation "rapture" is plainly and simply A LIE. The whole concept was rationalized by men in the mid 1800´s and requires great efforts and wrestling of the Scriptures to rationalize. What is Jesus´ Witness? Check out John 17 for yourself. The whole chapter is HIS Prayer for The Remnant. HE Says, praying to The Father to encourage The Apostles and Disciples, before HE was delivered for death: John 17 1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. The Witness of Christ Jesus is The Word of The Living God. Understand verse 15 above. HE Says "Keep them and preserve them in the world". Gotta sidestep that one, to play the rapture game. Lowe is simply another Believer who is unable to give his life to God and be Re-Born IN-HIM. God has no need to "rapture" anyone. Noah, Passover, Shadrach et al, Daniel, Lott, and others were "kept" by God. As Jesus says, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." If you are not yet Born-Again, or you embrace this concept of rapture; there is still time to see our Lord Jesus and ask HIM, "Lord, please show me your truth and The Way unto The Father." |
Rex 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward 95 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Curious Soul 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Just one little fly in your ointment: "not defiled with women". Women are symbols of churches--both negative and positive. The 144,000 will not be defiled by any particular church doctrine. They will, like Paul stated, not be taught of men, but by God Himself. This is just one little fly. There is a swarm of them throughout your perception of this. There are many layers of understanding about the 144,000. To get a full understanding, we must understand that they will BECOME a part of the temple and nevermore go out. Therefore, a full understanding of the temple is necessary to see how these "jewels" will be utilized in the future temple structure. I have seen many interpretations of the 144,000. All have fallen short of fully describing their function. Look to the study of Zerubbabel. He will build the last temple and leave no doubt as to how it is structured. In this sense, he will become the "ensign" that the world is so desparately looking for now. He will bring the hearts of the children back to the fathers, and the hearts of the fathers back to the children. He will repair the breach and restore the paths to dwell in. I appreciate your attempt to reach the truth. When the truth finally comes, you will be ready to receive it. |
Whodini 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
JCS 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | from my studies, I believe that ALL of the OT Saints, those whose faith was counted unto righteousness (Hebrews 11), went to a place called "Paradise". This is validated by Jesus´ statement to the thief on the cross, who, upon confessing Jesus as Lord, was told "today you will be with me in Paradise". Furthermore, Jesus told the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom died, the rich man waking up in hell, and Lazarus being "in the bosom of Abraham". Abraham was in Paradise, and hell (Hades) was so close to Paradise that they could see one another, and speak across the chasm which separated the two. Ephesians 4 tells that "Whe He (Jesus) ascended up on high, He led capitivity captive (but before He ascended, He descended into the lower most parts of the earth). His first ascention took place on Resurrection morning (John 20), so by this we know that in His 3 days in the belly of the earth He went to the places that God had created after the fall of either Lucifer or Adam. Those five place are: 1 Paradise 2. hell or Hades 3. The bottomless pit...the abode of demons 4. Tartarus, the "prison" where the fallen angels are kept in chains under darkness until the time of judgment.(Jesus preached to the spirits in prison during that 3 day period) 5. the lake of fire. When Jesus ascended on Resurrection morning, He "led capitivity captive" describes Him leading the OT Saints, as described in Hebrews 11, with Him and establishing Paradise in Heaven. In one of Paul´s Epistles he describes Paradise being in the 3rd heaven, that is, where God is. In Hebrews 11:35 it describes the OT Saints "awaiting a better resurrection"...they were raised up with Him on Resurrection Morning and transported in heaven. I further believe those who came out of their graves and were seen in Jerusalem after His death and the earthquake, were among those who went up on Resurrection morning with Him as He ascended. |
REAL Dave nli 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | more elitist bullshit designed to keep certain people elevated above others based purely on bloodlines. If you believe this crap, then everything else about man being equal is bull. Freedom goes out the window, because the "chosen ones" have dominion over us all. FUCK THAT! dave |
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Anonymous Coward 203 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 144,000 ‘not defiled with women.’ In Revelation 14:1-4, the 144,000 described as standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion are said to have been “bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.” These are shown as having a more intimate relationship with the Lamb than any others do, being the only ones to master the “new song.” (Re 14:1-4) This would indicate that they make up the “bride” of the Lamb. (Re 21:9) They are spiritual persons, as revealed by the fact that they stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb. Therefore their ‘not defiling themselves with women’ and their being “virgins” would not mean that none of these 144,000 persons had ever been married, for the Scriptures do not forbid persons on earth who are to be joint heirs with Christ to marry. (1Ti 3:2; 4:1, 3) Neither would it imply that all the 144,000 were men, for “there is neither male nor female” as far as the spiritual relationship of Christ’s joint heirs is concerned. (Ga 3:28) The “women” therefore must be symbolic women, doubtless religious organizations such as Babylon the Great and her ‘daughters,’ false religious organizations, the joining of and participation in which would prevent one from being spotless. (Re 17:5) This symbolic description harmonizes with the requirement in the Law that the high priest of Israel take only a virgin for his wife, for Jesus Christ is almighty God’s great High Priest.—Le 21:10, 14; 2Co 11:2; Heb 7:26. |
Anonymous Coward 73 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The 144,000 are of the FIRST resurrection and, having died once, will never die again. They are, also, not of a sexual nature. Jesus said there will be no marriages in heaven because we will be like the angels. I have often wondered where they are, who came out of the tombs when Jesus died. The Scriptures say, "It is given to man to DIE ONCE then, after that, the judgment." It appears that they must still be alive on the earth. I forgot which apostle wrote that we should be careful how we behave, because we may be entertaining angels unawares. The resurrected? People have reported they received help that came from strangers who disappeared after their rescue. Interesting thread! |
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EscapeAll TheseThings 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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stgeorge 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sexually pure? Sexually powerful I think. "Yes.But it needed controlling." "The Visitors control that aspect of me.The psycic said the spiritual force is of the sexual force,but we downplay it. Crowley spoke of sexua magic,not clear on this. But even a high order spirit can have relations with you,although not physical.Do not say that that they do not indulge.They used to enjoy it. For they were man and beast before." |
Anonymous Coward 12/08/2005 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They are not literal virgin men. It is figurative. They are spiritual persons, as revealed by the fact that they stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb. Therefore their ‘not defiling themselves with women’ and their being “virgins” would not mean that none of these 144,000 persons had ever been married, for the Scriptures do not forbid persons on earth who are to be joint heirs with Christ to marry. (1Ti 3:2; 4:1, 3) Neither would it imply that all the 144,000 were men, for “there is neither male nor female” as far as the spiritual relationship of Christ’s joint heirs is concerned. (Ga 3:28) |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 242970 United States 06/02/2007 11:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They are spititual men...not fleshly ....in the sense that they have died to this worlds wisdom..and made new(the new wine) cleansed and whitened and have the Spirit of Jesus and their Father living in them..in their New Heart . They invited Jesus into their hearts ..receiving his intimate counsel, which led to a deep restoration from with-in. They learned to walk with God and hear his voice. They have asked God to surround them in his presence, free them from the distractions of this world, and to redeem their hearts by completly surrendering it to Jesus as their only savior, and asking him to mortify all that he knew as a fleshly man, and they have been shown the secrets of Jesus heart..because they are one...married. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 188062 United States 06/02/2007 12:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What the 144,000 means is 12,000 decedants of each of the original 12 tribes of Isreal. At the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus our Lord and Savouir, all 144,000 will be gathered once again in Isreal. The time is near because the 144,000 have already started making their way back to Isreal. Recently, a lost tribe of the 12 was found to be living in Ethiopia and was broght back to Isreal to live and welcome the coming of Jesus.....so it is happening as we speak. These 144,000 decendants have lead a pure life according to the old testament, the first convenant of the Lord. After Jesus resurrection and asent into Heaven, modern day Christians live under God's new convenant. The Bible is the truth and the way, and there are no mistakes in the Bible....the will of God is being done today....read Revelations over and over again and get a study guide to help with the understanding.....it is very imperative that we all understand what is about to happen. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 188062 United States 06/02/2007 12:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The above link will give you info on a book written by Pastor John Haggee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, TX. His book will explain everything that is going on right now.....I urge everyone to get this book and read it....It will answer alot of things about how we got to the point we are now and what is about to come......please purchase this book..... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 245687 United States 06/02/2007 12:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "The 144,000 are in a state of holiness and purity as Jesus Christ was his entire life, which could only be possible if they had been in an immortal state. This is because, in a mortal state, all are born into sin, and no one is righteous. (Revelation 14:5)" The main premis is wrong. This statement is not biblical. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 241548 United States 06/02/2007 12:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Inanna of Sumeria User ID: 244059 United States 06/02/2007 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | not gay but hermaphroditic - Quoting: andy 0the theosophical 6th root race - and the original state of the first race before it fell Excellent observation... [link to ourworld.compuserve.com] ...The seeds of the sixth root-race are already being sown, largely in the Americas, and will become fairly numerous towards the end of our kali-yuga. Hermaphroditism will again appear, but in a more refined form. Children will be produced by kriyâshakti, i.e. by will and imagination -- passively in the sixth race, and consciously and actively in the seventh. The flesh of the sixth root-race will be very tender and soft, and that of the seventh root-race will be almost translucent. These races will be smaller than us in size, but greater in intellect and spirituality... [link to www.kheper.net] ...The 6th race constitute a new coming racial expression, which will demonstrate a group consciousness and telepathic rapport, high intelligence and intuitive skills, combined with numerous other qualities. This formulation, very innovative and forward looking when it first appeared, now seems very dated, as the future of nanotech, cyborgs, genetic engineering, transhumanism and the 'Singularity' seems like drastically overtaking any theosophical version of a coming race... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 245687 United States 06/02/2007 12:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | they are not all JEWISH either... but "children of Abraham"... which means they accept the teachings of Abraham and are "adopted" into that family (and tribe) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 241548How do you explain the names of the tribes that they "come out of" if they are not Jewish? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 245515 United States 06/02/2007 12:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1. They must all be Jewish, for they descend from 12 different sons of Israel. (Revelation 7:4-8) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 139 02. They must all be men, because they did not defile themselves with women. (Revelation 14:4) 3. They are all male parthenoi in Greek, or sexually pure. This could mean these men had never had sexual relations, had never been sexually immoral, or that in their current state, they were unable to have those type of relations. (Revelation 14:4) 4. They were "redeemed from among humanity", which means they must be human beings. (Revelation 14:3,4) 5. They had never told a lie, and they were "blameless". Its incredible the amount of energy and speculation that is being wasted on these old Jewish tribal myths that have got no relevance whatosever to anybody else. Anyhow, it's easy enough to find the above specimens, in Jewish maternity wards. |