|
| Page 1, 2 |
School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban.
|
PACNWguy 
User ID: 688273
 United States
8/14/2009 3:44 PM
Report abusive post | School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban.
| Quote |
School prayer charges stir protests
Educators face jail in Florida
By Julia Duin (Contact)
Originally published 04:45 a.m., August 14, 2009, updated 12:20 p.m., August 14, 2009
Students, teachers and local pastors are protesting over a court case involving a northern Florida school principal and an athletic director who are facing criminal charges and up to six months in jail over their offer of a mealtime prayer.
There have been yard signs, T-shirts and a mass student protest during graduation ceremonies this spring on behalf of Pace High School Principal Frank Lay and school athletic director Robert Freeman, who will go on trial Sept. 17 at a federal district court in Pensacola for breaching the conditions of a lawsuit settlement reached last year with the American Civil Liberties Union.
"I have been defending religious freedom issues for 22 years, and I've never had to defend somebody who has been charged criminally for praying," said Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Counsel, the Orlando-based legal group that is defending the two school officials.
An ACLU official said the school district has allowed "flagrant" violations of the First Amendment for years.
"The defendants all admitted wrongdoing," said Daniel Mach, director of litigation for its freedom of religion program. "For example, the Pace High School teachers handbook asks teachers to 'embrace every opportunity to inculcate, by precept and example, the practice of every Christian virtue.' "
The fight involving the ACLU, the school district and several devout Christian employees began last August when the ACLU sued Santa Rosa County Schools on behalf of two students who had complained privately to the group's Florida affiliate, claiming some teachers and administrators were allowing prayers at school events such as graduations, orchestrating separate religiously themed graduation services, and "proselytizing" students during class and after school.
In January, the Santa Rosa County School District settled out of court with the ACLU, agreeing to several things, including a provision to bar all school employees from promoting or sponsoring prayers during school-sponsored events; holding school events at church venues when a secular alternative was available; or promoting their religious beliefs or attempting to convert students in class or during school-sponsored events.
Mr. Staver said the district also agreed to forbid senior class President Mary Allen from speaking at the school's May 30 graduation ceremony on the chance that the young woman, a known Christian, might say something religious.
"She was the first student body president in 33 years not allowed to speak," he said.
In response, many members of the 300-plus-member student body taped crosses to their mortarboards and stood for an impromptu recitation of the Lord's Prayer during the ceremony.
Mr. Mach responded, "We believe students have the constitutional right to pray voluntarily in public or private. Constitutional problems arise only when public school officials promote or endorse prayer or specific religious views."
The criminal charges, which carry up to a $5,000 fine and a six-month jail term, originated with a Jan. 28 incident in which Mr. Lay, a deacon at a local Baptist church, asked Mr. Freeman to offer mealtime prayers at a lunch for school employees and booster-club members who had helped with a school field-house project.
Mr. Staver said no students were present at the event, which was held on school property but after school hours.
"He wasn't thinking he was violating an order," he said. "Neither did the athletic director. He was asked to pray and so he did."
Mr. Mach said the event was during the school day and that Mr. Lay, the school's principal, has said in writing that students were present.
"Decisions about the religious upbringing of children should be left in the hands of parents, not school officials," he said. As to whether prayer constitutes "religious upbringing," he said, "If school officials were promoting non-majority faiths and religious viewpoints, I suspect there'd be an uproar."
The ACLU brought the matter to the attention of U.S. District Court Judge M. Casey Rodgers, who issued a contempt order for the two men.
Meanwhile, members of the small community of Milton, Fla., where Pace High School is located, have contributed more than $10,000 toward a legal defense fund for the defendants.
Anti-ACLU T-shirts are also being sold and the proceeds donated.
Judge Rodgers' order also included Michelle Winkler, a clerical assistant who was attending a school district event in February with other school employees at a local naval base. There, she asked her husband to offer a blessing for a meal, says the ACLU, adding that students were present and led the Pledge of Allegiance.
"She didn't do the blessing; she asked somebody to do it," Mr. Staver said. "The ACLU is sending people to school to monitor things happening on campus and see if there is anything encouraging religious activity, then running to the court if they see anything."
Her trial, which could result in a fine, is scheduled for Aug. 21.
[link to www.washingtontimes.com]
Last Edited by PACNWguy on 8/14/2009 at 3:45 PM
OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY
"I inherated and I am Great!" |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721113
United States
8/14/2009 3:58 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
This is so wrong, but it will continue to happen until more people stand against the ACLU and fight this nonsense.
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 744446
United States
8/14/2009 4:00 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
This is so wrong, but it will continue to happen until more people stand against the ACLU and fight this nonsense.
yeah, the separation of church and state is total nonsense. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721700
United States
8/14/2009 4:03 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
That's idiotic. When I graduated from PUBLIC school in 1982, the principal did recite a prayer. Big whoop!!!
All I have to say is QUIT MESSING WITH THE CONSITITUTION!! Freedom of speech, and FREEDOM of religion! |
|
Evil Twin 
Senior Forum Moderator
8/14/2009 4:09 PM
 | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
This is so wrong, but it will continue to happen until more people stand against the ACLU and fight this nonsense.
yeah, the separation of church and state is total nonsense.
There is nothing in the constitution about separation of church and state except the 1st Amendment, which states that congress shall make no law prohibiting the free expression of religion.
Considering becoming an "undocumented worker".
eviltwin618@yahoo.com |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 744446
United States
8/14/2009 4:15 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
This is so wrong, but it will continue to happen until more people stand against the ACLU and fight this nonsense.
yeah, the separation of church and state is total nonsense.
There is nothing in the constitution about separation of church and state except the 1st Amendment, which states that congress shall make no law prohibiting the free expression of religion.
and they shall also make no law respecting an establishment of religion. not sure why you left that part out, since it's really the crux of this whole issue. |
|
Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
8/14/2009 4:18 PM
| | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
This is so wrong, but it will continue to happen until more people stand against the ACLU and fight this nonsense.
yeah, the separation of church and state is total nonsense.
There is nothing in the constitution about separation of church and state except the 1st Amendment, which states that congress shall make no law prohibiting the free expression of religion.
and they shall also make no law respecting an establishment of religion. not sure why you left that part out, since it's really the crux of this whole issue.
A man saying a prayer at a lunch is not a law respecting an establishment of religion.
That clause means that Congress shall not approve one religion over another. People within their own communities are allowed to pray in public.
Considering becoming an "undocumented worker".
eviltwin618@yahoo.com |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 748726
United States
8/14/2009 4:18 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Obama endorses the burning of Bibles in Afghanistan, what do you expect? |
|
PACNWguy
User ID: 688273
United States
8/14/2009 4:23 PM
| | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
If you push a field mouse into a corner, he will put up a vicious fight to the death.
Americans have put up with a ton of shit from the left and it wont be long till the giant awakes and pushes the fucking reset button.
Blood will flow in the streets like a river if they dont back off.
You can see the 'righteous' anger and 'frustration' in the town hall meetings and smell it in the air.
Once it begins, it cannot be stopped.
Beware
OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY
"I inherated and I am Great!" |
|
Resister
In God we trust
User ID: 669410
United States
8/14/2009 4:27 PM
 | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Jail time!?!?
What the hell happened to the first ammendment? In the past year it seems every time I think some piece of bible prophecy about the depravity of the end times could not happen here, IT HAPPENS HERE!
God's judgment is coming.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 |
|
IDW
User ID: 748626
United States
8/14/2009 4:28 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Freedom of religion means freedom from religion as well as anothers right to believe whatever nonsense he chooses to.
The courts ruled that children shouldn't be exposed to religious doctrine at school and they were right to. T |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 748626
United States
8/14/2009 4:31 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Let me expand upon what I said. Children are impressionable and this is when they usually decide to follow a particular religion throughout life. A child who hears the Jesus promise is likely to view it as a dmaned good deal. Problem is Jesus is a con man, it's like a perve offering a little kid a piece of candy. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 739419
United States
8/14/2009 4:49 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else. |
|
IDW
User ID: 748626
United States
8/14/2009 4:53 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 739419
I do believe in a creator, I just don't believe in religion, which is the creation of mens minds. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 744446
United States
8/14/2009 4:55 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 739419
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 526297
United States
8/14/2009 5:10 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else.
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 744446
How about this special treatment for a very small minority ...
[link to www.google.com]
But it's not alright for christians to have the same. HMMM |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 748827
United States
8/14/2009 5:10 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. The ACLU needs to be stood up to. No one especially likes their attutude. If they don't want to join in on Prayer, Pledge of Alligiance...so be it. They have their freedom to do as they please. NOW..WE THE PEOPLE also have our freedom of speech and choice. If we want to have these things there is no reason WHY WE CAN'T HAVE IT. Leave us alone. THE ACLU and Government do more crimes and are left to do more crimes than anyone else. Like I said in another comment, the prisons are full of MISDEMEANERS compared to what Aclu and goverment is doing to our country. Put them behind bars for CRIMINAL actions that they continually do. Let's concentrate on the guys in the black hats and leave the the guys in the white hats alone.
We have the right to pray if we want.You other dummies can go about feeding your mouths and soluting the AMERICAN FLAG all you want...it is no skin off my nose...BUT Leave the rest of us alone to participate the way we choose. We are sick and tired of taking crap from you underdogs. Leave us the hell alone. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 744446
United States
8/14/2009 5:15 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else.
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works.
How about this special treatment for a very small minority ...
[ link to www.google.com]
But it's not alright for christians to have the same. HMMM
these prayer rooms are separate from other students who don't wish to participate. students are not made to sit in these rooms during muslim prayers. if you want a christian prayer room, that's fine. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 748726
United States
8/14/2009 5:16 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Freedom of religion means freedom from religion as well as anothers right to believe whatever nonsense he chooses to.
The courts ruled that children shouldn't be exposed to religious doctrine at school and they were right to. T Quoting: IDW 748626
What about freedom of speech? |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 526297
United States
8/14/2009 5:19 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else.
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works.
How about this special treatment for a very small minority ...
[ link to www.google.com]
But it's not alright for christians to have the same. HMMM
these prayer rooms are separate from other students who don't wish to participate. students are not made to sit in these rooms during muslim prayers. if you want a christian prayer room, that's fine.
Sorry, the government is paying for the rooms and as such open/closed ddor prayer should not be allowed. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 744446
United States
8/14/2009 5:28 PM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else.
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works.
How about this special treatment for a very small minority ...
[ link to www.google.com]
But it's not alright for christians to have the same. HMMM
these prayer rooms are separate from other students who don't wish to participate. students are not made to sit in these rooms during muslim prayers. if you want a christian prayer room, that's fine.
Sorry, the government is paying for the rooms and as such open/closed ddor prayer should not be allowed.
the rooms already exist, these children are just given access to them at a certain time of day. there is nothing that says children of another faith cannot do the same. |
|
9teen.47™
Time is short.
User ID: 748768
 United Kingdom
8/14/2009 5:34 PM
 | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children. |
|
JesusFreak
User ID: 750335
United States
8/17/2009 8:58 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
If you don't believe Jesus is who He said He is, you should look up the websites of some of the people who as agnostics went on a journey to prove He was a fraud and the Bible was not real, and study their results. People like Josh McDowell. There is too much valid historical information about Jesus to ever compare him to a con man. He has changed lives for over 2000 years and will continue to do so no matter how many ACLU's are created to try to stop it. Christianity is not a religion. Yes, many religions celebrate Christianity and teach it to their parish, but truly being a Christian has nothing to do with religion. When one becomes a Christian he/she asks the Holy Spirit to come into his/her life to be the driving force in their life. To guide them, hold them when they hurt, yes, even protect them. He gives them the gifts of peace, hope, faith, understanding and love. Hundreds of thousands of people sit in church every Sunday and never truly get it, but when you see someone give in to the gentle pressing of the Lord and the love that fills their soul you can't deny it. Once someone does become a Christian he/she wants to learn more, wants to serve him, wants to do his will, wants Him to be the foundation for their life and His promises ARE fulfilled. If you don't believe me, visit a hospital. Find the truly Christian families dealing with the death of a loved one. Then look at the families that are not. That kind of peace, true peace cannot be fabricated nor can it be faked. These are the true Christians who know that truth will prevail. It may come down to a fight, but we have the Almighty on our side and his name is JESUS. |
|
Lens Flare
User ID: 749732
United Kingdom
8/17/2009 9:03 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
And so it begins..
Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the father except by me." |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 574055
United States
8/17/2009 9:03 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
The government is anti-Christian, why should government schools be any different. "Render unto Caesar..." |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 750267
United States
8/17/2009 9:06 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's against the law for authority figures to offer prayer in schools. I believe in freedom of religion, but also freedom FROM religion for those who aren't of the same faith. The prayer had no place in public school. I think jail time is ridiculous, but I do think they took the risk when breaking the law and will now have to face consequences. At the very least, a reprimand is warranted; perhaps a suspension. As I said, jail time and losing their jobs is excessive. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 750267
United States
8/17/2009 9:10 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
It's OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
I always wondered why the atheists fight us so hard on this issue.
If you don't believe in god that's your problem.
But, why ruin it for the 90% of everyone else.
ah right, if it's good for the majority then fuck the minority. that always works.
How about this special treatment for a very small minority ...
[ link to www.google.com]
But it's not alright for christians to have the same. HMMM
The law doesn't prohibit students from praying in school. It's set up to keep administrators from trying to influence the beliefs of the kids under their care. Most of you would agree that the parents are the ones who should guide their kids toward or away from religious dogma, right? |
|
profit
User ID: 737375
United States
8/17/2009 9:58 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
...I'll lay u 9:5....they get wacked by a hurricane this season...!  |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 748933
 Canada
8/17/2009 10:13 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Blessed be the god of our Space.
In his hands your face full of disgrace.
Blessed be hi whom worship all, going to work, school or mall.
Blessed be his empire made of dirt who he commends as righteous place of his, of a GOD. His face white as snow with eyes of fire, through his vain's runs a blood of fire.
Blessed be he and all of me with him, you I do not see but you can say AMEN.
Dear Lord may Your Righteous Place Never Be Shaken, As It Never Shall You Are Lord.
Amen
Smile :) |
|
pgs1308
User ID: 750405
United States
8/17/2009 10:19 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
deny me before man, and i shall deny you before my father!
Last Edited by pgs1308 on 8/17/2009 at 10:20 AM |
|
IDW
User ID: 750383
United States
8/17/2009 10:21 AM | | Re: School Principal and Coach to be sentenced to PRISON for blessing food at FL School under ACLU Freedom of Speech Ban. | Quote |
Freedom of religion means freedom from religion as well as anothers right to believe whatever nonsense he chooses to.
The courts ruled that children shouldn't be exposed to religious doctrine at school and they were right to. T
What about freedom of speech? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748726
Your freedom of speech does not extend to a right to forcefully and without a choice on thier part expose my children or anyone elses to religious doctrine they do not wish them to be exposed to. Prayer can be accomplishedin private if there is not an intent to publicise ones beliefs in a public setting . I pay taxes to support the school system and I dont want christian doctrine taught in school in any manner or form. It's not a freedom of speech issue anyway, it's a freedom of religion issue , my freedom and that of my childrens, and it's a stubborn desire to prothelesise to children who's parents do not want them exposed to it. Thats why the courts ruled as they did. IMHO being exposed to christian doctrine is harmful to children, based on what Ive seen from christian children. They're generally less honest and well behaved than non christian children, and they all have the mindset that anyone who does not believe as they do is wrong, bound for hell.
Christianity sounds like a good deal to any child without a doubt, that's why it is so important to protect ehm from it while they are forming thier own ideas about religion and the creator. |
|
| Page 1, 2 |
|
