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The Origin of The Lucifer Story

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 02:49 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Hi Zack, btw. :) There is more to the story than simply KJV and modern practices of Christianity or any religious belief system being practiced today.

As the world approached the 1900s, Christians were _sure_ that Christ was going to come then and the tribulation was right around the corner.

We people are just so _sure_ about everything.

We're locked into our belief systems and stuck, unchanging. Many of us are afraid.

But some of us are learning. :)

[link to www.moviesounds.com]
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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08/29/2009 02:50 PM

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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
lucifer and satan are two different things....

in esoteric circles lucifer is known as the light bearer....

he who brings the light....

satan on the other hand is the deceiver....

he who brings deception....
 Quoting: mr...bojangles

im just starting to read on the morning star stuff. i have several articles a friend sent me.
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Lotus Feet
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08/29/2009 02:54 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
I don't have the time or the stamina to correct the mistakes from O.P post, mainly about Hebrew. Kirk out, beam me up, Scotty.
 Quoting: inca=chinitial 758871


Agreed.

It would be good if people looked at the original words in their original languages for themselves instead of misinformation being handed on and on like the Church.

I will just add this one.

SHALOM -
The verb shalam literally means to make whole or complete. The noun shalom has the more literal meaning of being in a state of wholeness or with no deficiency. The common phrase shalu shalom yerushalayim (pray for the peace of Jerusalem) is not speaking about an abcense of war (though that is part of it) but that Jerusalem (and by extension all of Israel) is complete and whole and goes far beyond the idea of "peace". "
[link to www.ancient-hebrew.org]

Lotus
zacksavage

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08/29/2009 02:55 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Hi Zack, btw. :) There is more to the story than simply KJV and modern practices of Christianity or any religious belief system being practiced today.

As the world approached the 1900s, Christians were _sure_ that Christ was going to come then and the tribulation was right around the corner.

We people are just so _sure_ about everything.

We're locked into our belief systems and stuck, unchanging. Many of us are afraid.
But some of us are learning. :)

[link to www.moviesounds.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728820


Hi

Yes,...the chain that bind fall away us we learn for some strange reason.

I guess it depends upon the person,...

Mind control is a brain killer.

Z
Free your mind,...your ass will follow.

--- parliament funkadelic
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 02:57 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Was Ferris influenced by Satan, Lucifer or both?

he
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08/29/2009 03:01 PM
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Does he have a phone number i begin with a smoke and coffee and that al day trough and if it continues
Venus wil burn somewhere else
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 03:04 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
"One should not think that a religion is true because it is old. On the contrary the more mankind lives, the more the true Law of Life becomes clear to him. To suppose that in our epoch one must continue to believe what our grandfathers and ancestors believed is to think that an adult can continue to wear the garments of children". - Tseng Tse



Times They Are A Changing

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.


The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.


hf
UNCHAINED

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08/29/2009 03:12 PM
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I suppose that eventually you'll get it and ask yourself where you first heard the CORRECT notion.

get what exactly? look cliffy clavin - its evident and most obvious that you do not follow my threads. i do not lean to the religious aspect of things. im the political end. i will not attest to - nor deny any info herein because i cannot validate any of it. capice?

some opinions expressed here may or may not very well be that of an antiquated belief system -

i found the article interesting and i posted it. it is out of the norm for me to do so bc this is NOT my defined area - and i stated inasmuch in the beginning of the thread. *im not gonna say this again.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn

It is good you posted it. Hopefully people will learn what is truthful or not.
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! "
9teen.47™

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08/29/2009 03:13 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
hummbird

If you would like to know more about this subject from a biblical point of view. Creator Or Liar?...

[link to www.chick.com]

Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 08/29/2009 03:14 PM
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman].
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
Candace

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08/29/2009 03:15 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Nice article however, Lucifer was an "angel" because earthians have no other term, who was indeed cast out of heaven for wanting to own this system and be it's only god. He was the System Head of Jerusem, the system of over 600 planets that we belong to. In Revelations, he is called the dragon, and his colors were red white and black, still the colors of the Roman Catholic Church and if notice, also since after Christmas, the Colors of CNN. That should say something.

Lucifer is DEAD, he chose uncreation, obliteration and so it happened after this trial about 20 years ago.


I see some talk above about the MORNING STAR, (Actually the Bright and Morning Star) that is Gabriel who is the First created son of Christ Michael and Nebonia, and Gabriel is the chief executive of Nebadon our universe and not a member of the arch angels. Get the UB folks, it will really help you out. Available to read online at www.urantia.org and several other websites now. Easier to own one though. But you can search Lucifer, Bright and Morning Star, Gabriel etc, on the site and it will produce the papers covering these. Lucifer Rebellion is covered in papers 53 and 54. Gabriels creation is covered in paper 33.

Last Edited by Candace on 08/29/2009 03:21 PM
sight
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08/29/2009 03:20 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
And on top of the african bush (you can see just like a minor white mountain stuff one in the usa) two horns and a bunny armed sea for the middle east backed up by a bigger looking guy and some weird dragon drewling at some island that look like russia and more.
Plus a donkey screwing Australië.
Ehm oh if the smokers get rid of lucifer than they dont have to watch.
And be open minded and stuff ,very importand or else you wil go the way of the northen border sickem and lucifer also known as jammu and kashmir. :/
Lotus Feet
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08/29/2009 03:22 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Red and Black are also the Feng Shui colours for success in business etc.

Lotus
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 03:26 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
By inventing a fictional being like Satan, the people who believe in this being aren`t able to learn their life lessons, because they blame all bad things on Satan... by refusing to take responsibility for their own lifes, they aren`t able to clear their karma, which means to learn their lessons that they chose for themselfs before incarnating and so they are trapped in the reincarnational cycle and are unconsciously blocked from evolving as a soul and ascending into higher dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758937


Yes, and they are first of all failing to understand the lessons of the very book they claim to be learning from.
They filter out what they do not want to know..
Such as:

Galatians 4:22-23-24
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24. Which things are an allegory.
olaicecreame
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08/29/2009 03:26 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Thats what i mean i smoke
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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08/29/2009 03:31 PM

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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
You really are facinated with lucifer.This is nothing
more than confuluded dibble/deception
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 547230

moi? i dont believe that i have remotely attempted to nary a topic such as this. had you ever followed my threads you would know this.

your feeble attempt at replying: epic
your obtuse reply in itself: fail
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
o
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08/29/2009 03:32 PM
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*.* nah
u o
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08/29/2009 03:36 PM
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And the turks think they can screw every nassau
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 03:37 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
lucifer and satan are two different things....

in esoteric circles lucifer is known as the light bearer....

he who brings the light....

satan on the other hand is the deceiver....

he who brings deception....

im just starting to read on the morning star stuff. i have several articles a friend sent me.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn



OP

Phennommennonn

Thank you for the post

I will take time to work thru all of the links

as an OLD TIME PAGAN

( that is not a neo pagan, or some revised to
" please the judaeo-xian mentality" of many
pretend pagan people )

but follower of as much of the ANCIENT PHOLOSOPHY
as can be grasped by INNER WORKINGS in practice,
I appreciate any and all leads to deeper
understanding that may guide me on my walk.


All answers are contained WITHIN where
dwells in our CORE the EDUCATOR DIETY.


Bit archaic here but those who have walked
past the cross road toward the HILL
where the Irmunsul still stands know
this language well

Venus Hesperus AND Venus Phosporus
Goes ahead to LIGHT the Way so the Gloden Chariot doesnt get lost as HE doesnt ask for directions
HEH HEH

Blessed Be.




hf
o
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08/29/2009 03:43 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Wow wong twead sowwy
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 03:56 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
You really are facinated with lucifer.This is nothing
more than confuluded dibble/deception

moi? i dont believe that i have remotely attempted to nary a topic such as this. had you ever followed my threads you would know this.

your feeble attempt at replying: epic
your obtuse reply in itself: fail
 Quoting: Phennommennonn



Blind guide
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 04:10 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
lucifer, satan, beelzebub , devil, leviathan, grew to be used among other terms for Satan


You're wrong.

It's too easy to put these into one basket.

If you study Isaiah you'll appreciate a couple of things.

At one point he warns Judah of relying upon the Ethiopians and Egyptians (described as brothers) coming to their aid against the Assyrians and other Babylonian Empires.

This establishes that the Children he speaks of are akin to Ethiopians/Egyptians, or in other words, Israelites/Judeans at that time were blacks.

Does this not corroborate with the identity of Shalim, god of Dusk, root of Jerusalem?

Now, having appreciated this, ask yourself why when denigrating the "King of Babylon" Isaiah chose the epithet Son of Schacar, bright son of the god of Dawn!

Why did he choose from the Canaanite pantheon, from the twin sons of EL, the god of Dawn over his brother the god of Dusk?

Isaiah was describing the appearance of the Babylonians by comparison to that of the Children.

He goes on to confirm that Lucifer is a man, that he destroyed the cities of the Children, that he caused the Earth to tremble, that he was despised when people looked at him and that he shouldn't be allowed to continue or else who would pollute the world and cover it with his cities.

Lucifer is the white race.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758881


Okay, I have really been enjoying this thread - until the above post, which throws the discussion off by introducing an afrocentric argument into the mix. In other words, racism.

To the poster: Hey dude, it is not about race; it is not black is good and white is evil - or the reverse. If that is your platform you really have not studied history. Would you really wish to mislead people down a road that is so erroneous and so simplistic as to be meaningless? The afrocentric vs. eurocentric battle degrades this topic, and seeks to twist history to suit ethnic goals (from various directions to the benefit of various ethnicities).

Personally, I prefer real history, or as real as we can approach, as opposed to politicized history. Forensic examination of actual mummies and other remains of early Egyptian periods, as well as in other lands, clearly reveals to us what was what. To ignore that evidence is to support false history. It was not simple then and is not simple now. If the above poster wishes to push a lie, then I urge listeners and readers to do their own homework.

Saying "Lucifer is the white race" is unsupported in any degree - and irrelevant. So take your race card and go home, dude. It really does not matter what race Lucifer might have been or might be - if the idea of race would even apply. What he stands for, does, and what that force signifies among us is what matters.

The question of who or what Lucifer/Satan/etc. was or is seems fundamental to understanding the nature of good and evil, and the proper role of deism and deity worship within the human species. Does that not fill your cup to overflowing on its own?
Mickeyblue
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08/29/2009 04:12 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
The reason why the KJV is used so broadly is because it ties in directly with the Strong's Concordance which takes from the manuscripts the Hebrew, Greek words with the correct translations. So nothing negates Lucifer because it is not found in other publications.

The bible having been written in those two along with the Aramaic language.

SAtan is refered to Lucifer because of how imbued he was with all the beauty and glory , intelligence possible. He was a cheerubim who was one of the two who guarded the Ark of the Covenant.

Satan(Lucifer) has many names throughout the bible and hides his mischief and purpose behind his many disguises. When Jesus returns and deals him his deadly blow and puts him in prison for the 1000 years of the millenium, he will lose the ability for deception and when he returns one last time he will have no cloaking of this, he will be solely Satan in his last and final battle with God.
Mickeyblue
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08/29/2009 04:23 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Oops! sorry meant to say that in asmuch as he highjacks or attempts of highjack so much of Christ's role that is why he too is not just light bearer but son of the morning star..........Jesus is as well. It is another diversion away from Satans' love affair with himself and how he intends(in his mind) to usurp God.

I mean how much narcissism is there for him to try and fool Jesus when he promised him this world overwhich to rule by leaving out of his scriptural quotes a very major thing, thinking that he could fool Christ himself.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 04:39 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Personally, I prefer real history, or as real as we can approach, as opposed to politicized history.



To ignore that evidence is to support false history(!). It was not simple then and is not simple now. If the above poster wishes to push a lie, then I urge listeners and readers to do their own homework.



Interesting. You seem like a pretty intelligent poster.

For some perspective, I would like to add:

"The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know." - Harry S. Truman



this is one star BS

the scriptures you have in your sig mean nothing to you. Blasphemer! Or shall we say, this is "Phennommennonnal" bs



If you ask Christians who Lucifer is, most of 'em will probably tell you some story about Lucifer being an angel who was cast out of Heaven because he was proud and wanted to take over Heaven, or something along that line.

The entire chapter of Isaiah 14 is about Israel shall be gathered and enjoy Millennial rest—then- Lucifer cast out of heaven for rebellion— finally- Israel shall triumph over Babylon (the world).

Specifically, Verse 12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

That means triumphing over you and others who deny Christ and His true scriptures.


! What a righteous thing to say! That is some mighty authority and certainty you are attempting to command there.

What about 'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone'?

Surely, you aren't presenting yourself as being above Sin and error?

[link to www.christianitytoday.com]

Many "Christians" recognize interpretation of the Bible and the context in which things were documented.

You should, too.

Your knee jerk post and attitude is the kind of thinking that helps to hold Humanity back.
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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08/29/2009 04:40 PM

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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Oops! sorry meant to say that in asmuch as he highjacks or attempts of highjack so much of Christ's role that is why he too is not just light bearer but son of the morning star..........Jesus is as well. It is another diversion away from Satans' love affair with himself and how he intends(in his mind) to usurp God.

I mean how much narcissism is there for him to try and fool Jesus when he promised him this world overwhich to rule by leaving out of his scriptural quotes a very major thing, thinking that he could fool Christ himself.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 330969

like i said earlier, i need to finished reading up on the morning star
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Slartybartfast

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08/29/2009 04:41 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Isaiah 14:12

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!


Revelation 22:16 (King James Version)

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


2 Peter 1:19 (New International Version)

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
MagiChristmas

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08/29/2009 04:42 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
The Ulimate Conspiricy:

Lucifer, never to receive a body or be sent to Earth.


I suppose that eventually you'll get it and ask yourself where you first heard the CORRECT notion.

get what exactly? look cliffy clavin - its evident and most obvious that you do not follow my threads. i do not lean to the religious aspect of things. im the political end. i will not attest to - nor deny any info herein because i cannot validate any of it. capice?

some opinions expressed here may or may not very well be that of an antiquated belief system -

i found the article interesting and i posted it. it is out of the norm for me to do so bc this is NOT my defined area - and i stated inasmuch in the beginning of the thread. *im not gonna say this again.


King Lucifer is not Satan gaah

Lucifer aka Satan never came to this Earth.    

Latter-day Saints believe that God explained to His spirit children that they would come to earth to gain bodies, be tested, and would be free to choose to return to Him. Since they wouldn't remember this life, they would have to walk by faith.

Jesus accepted this plan and was willing to come to earth to atone for mankind. But another spirit named Lucifer proposed that he be given all God's glory, come to earth, and force everyone to obey him.

Mormons believe that God chose Jesus as the savior, and what followed is called the war in heaven. Lucifer rebelled and was cast out of heaven, never to receive a body or be sent to earth as part of God's plan. (Also see Bible; Luke 10:18, Revelation 12:7-12, and Isaiah 14: 12-20.) Mormons believe that Lucifer became Satan, and 1/3 of the spirits in heaven chose to follow him to outer darkness.

A close parent-child relationship with God is depicted by Mormons. They believe that all people lived as God's spirit children with Him before birth on earth. When He unfolded His plan for mankind, Lucifer rebelled and drew away many spirits. Jesus Christ was chosen to become the savior of the world.
[link to mormonism.suite101.com]

This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links:  
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC

im gonna check it out....thanks for this, splains alot.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


OP = Myths about the Bible:
Thread: Myths About the Bible - UPDATE = Add Myth # 8 - doctors of Mythology respond?

Was a thread that predated my log of direct links, but also splains alot about how many truths of the gospel were corrupted.  Much like this obvious case in a long line of attemps to distort the truth i. e. the ultimate conspiricy.

This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links:  
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

Last Edited by Tru Blu no more on 08/29/2009 05:00 PM
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Personally, I prefer real history, or as real as we can approach, as opposed to politicized history.



To ignore that evidence is to support false history(!). It was not simple then and is not simple now. If the above poster wishes to push a lie, then I urge listeners and readers to do their own homework.



Interesting. You seem like a pretty intelligent poster.

For some perspective, I would like to add:

"The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know." - Harry S. Truman


Quoting Dread Pirate Roberts
this is one star BS

the scriptures you have in your sig mean nothing to you. Blasphemer! Or shall we say, this is "Phennommennonnal" bs



If you ask Christians who Lucifer is, most of 'em will probably tell you some story about Lucifer being an angel who was cast out of Heaven because he was proud and wanted to take over Heaven, or something along that line.

The entire chapter of Isaiah 14 is about Israel shall be gathered and enjoy Millennial rest—then- Lucifer cast out of heaven for rebellion— finally- Israel shall triumph over Babylon (the world).

Specifically, Verse 12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

That means triumphing over you and others who deny Christ and His true scriptures.


! What a righteous thing to say! That is some mighty authority and certainty you are attempting to command there.

What about 'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone'?

Surely, you aren't presenting yourself as being above Sin and error?


[link to www.christianitytoday.com]

Many "Christians" recognize interpretation of the Bible and the context in which things were documented.

You should, too.

Your knee jerk post and attitude is the kind of thinking that helps to hold Humanity back.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728820

thanks ac...its about time someone other than i - shut her big fat fucking ass up.

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 08/29/2009 04:45 PM
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2009 04:44 PM
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Isaiah 14:12

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!


Revelation 22:16 (King James Version)

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


2 Peter 1:19 (New International Version)

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
 Quoting: Slartybartfast



See?

Context, interpretation, translation, retranslation, mistranslation.

Like a big game of telephone across generations and civilizations, words and meaning change.

Rational, intelligent people recognize this.

Ignorant, Palin-loving people only help to hold errors in place - in the dark!
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Re: The Origin of The Lucifer Story
Isaiah 14:12

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!


Revelation 22:16 (King James Version)

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


2 Peter 1:19 (New International Version)

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.



See?

Context, interpretation, translation, retranslation, mistranslation.

Like a big game of telephone across generations and civilizations, words and meaning change.

Rational, intelligent people recognize this.

Ignorant, Palin-loving people only help to hold errors in place - in the dark!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728820

whats palin have to do with this?
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.





GLP