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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Marshwiggle

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12/16/2012 11:50 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Spirituality is the process of proactively discovering your

personal connection with the Creator, from a path of inner seeking. It is a self assessment of your own thoughts,

attitudes, and beliefs, the ability to consciously close off some of those things you have previously accepted and open yourself to new spiritual concepts.

This is known as spiritual advancement.

When a person is willing to learn and apply the principles of divinity in their life, they have spirituality evolved. Divinity helps you outwardly perceive the love and compassion in others,

you recognise that each person is a spiritual being and understand that each person are at different levels of spiritual growth.

When you incorporate divinity as an integral part of yourself and begin to externalise this “Christ” energy, the very nature of your reality changes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15534724


Chaol doesn't refer to spirituality or divinity. He focuses on perspective, of course. And, as Unit points out, he says there is no consciousness, just perspective.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 11:52 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
And if Chaol is so in charge of his perceptions, why is he living in a world that he doesn't like as much as this world? Why does he have a girlfriend that can only stay in his world a short time?

I'm not doubting Chaol....I really believe he doesn't have all the answers himself.
 Quoting: Unit3


Has he actually said he doesn't like his world as much as ours?
 Quoting: Marshwiggle




Yes, he said this just before he left. A new poster asked him quite a few questions about his world. It's not too far back in this very thread.
 Quoting: Unit3


Thanks, I'll look for it
 Quoting: Marshwiggle




I found it and also rememberd another question I have. If Choal creates his perspective, why does he need a nexus point to travel back and forth between worlds? There is something I'm no understanding (or Chaol isn't) about our perception creating powers.

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 218)
Unit3

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12/16/2012 11:54 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Spirituality is the process of proactively discovering your

personal connection with the Creator, from a path of inner seeking. It is a self assessment of your own thoughts,

attitudes, and beliefs, the ability to consciously close off some of those things you have previously accepted and open yourself to new spiritual concepts.

This is known as spiritual advancement.

When a person is willing to learn and apply the principles of divinity in their life, they have spirituality evolved. Divinity helps you outwardly perceive the love and compassion in others,

you recognise that each person is a spiritual being and understand that each person are at different levels of spiritual growth.

When you incorporate divinity as an integral part of yourself and begin to externalise this “Christ” energy, the very nature of your reality changes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15534724


Chaol doesn't refer to spirituality or divinity. He focuses on perspective, of course. And, as Unit points out, he says there is no consciousness, just perspective.
 Quoting: Marshwiggle





How is there perspective without consciousness?
Marshwiggle

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12/16/2012 11:58 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
will we be here on this thread beyond september-october?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516296


Will you be posting on this thread beyond October?

Probably.

Beyond December?

Probably not.
 Quoting: Chaol


will we be here on this thread beyond september-october?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516296


Will you be posting on this thread beyond October?

Probably.

Beyond December?

Probably not.
 Quoting: Chaol


Why not beyond December?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1517925


The world is changing "rapidly" these days.

Certain technologies will not keep apace with the changes.

This website, and what it enables, may rely on those technologies that will become more irrelevant.
 Quoting: Chaol


Are you guys ready for something weird?

The more high strangeness that occurs, the more you will realize you are entering the 'dream' world.

Clearly, when we're prepared for one thing something totally different happens.
 Quoting: Chaol


Is it ecsys that will replace the Internet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1517925


No.

Horus-on-the-horizon will replace the internet.
 Quoting: Chaol


Not exactly how I remembered it but, even so, I didn't expect to still be posting like this by now.
Marshwiggle

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12/16/2012 12:05 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I found it and also rememberd another question I have. If Choal creates his perspective, why does he need a nexus point to travel back and forth between worlds? There is something I'm no understanding (or Chaol isn't) about our perception creating powers.

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 218)
 Quoting: Unit3


Thanks,, yes, he says he prefers living in this world.

And, re your above question.... maybe the nexus points simply allow him to make use of available extra energy.
CatCarel

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12/16/2012 12:11 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...






You're real, I'm real, Chaol is real...I bet every poster on this thread would say they are real.
 Quoting: Unit3


Are we?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556


No. The forum, thread, usernames, posts, etc. are props that, with interaction, create the perception of 'other people'. The posters would only say they are real because you believe yourself- and your perceptions- to be real.

'Cat Carel' is a means of exploring values in my perspective, as is my laptop, car, kitten, and shampoo.
 Quoting: CatCarel




Sure, it's all props....but are you saying you are not real? Not meaning the props, but whoever is exploring values?
 Quoting: Unit3


It's a concept similar to (or the same as) Solipsism.
Here's a description: [link to www.iep.utm.edu]

I was referring to my username as a means of communication on this forum, which leads to the discovery of new values in my perspective.

There's a chunk of posts in this thread where Chaol describes the loneliness of existence, as you create everything you perceive. I think it was in June.

Basically, a prop and symbol are the same, just like an event and a relationship.
Cat
Marshwiggle

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12/16/2012 12:11 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
How is there perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


* We are not human (we are perspectives)

 Quoting: chaol 183770


Does your girlfriend know what you are?
 Quoting: QueenJay


Human? Yes :)


 Quoting: Chaol


In truth, Chaol sometimes contradicts himself :)
Unit3

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12/16/2012 12:51 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




I noticed more quietness which I guess could be attributed to the earth's spin. But, this is where I get confused, isn't this our perceptions? Aren't we assigning meaning to our experiences so we can understand it?

I will say that until the shooting today, even the front page of GLP was calm for a couple of days. One evening, there weren't even any doom threads pinned.
 Quoting: Unit3


I feel like I'm dying!

Neurons... slowing.. down.

dead
 Quoting: CatCarel





Really? I love the quiet, stillness. Interesting, eh?

Btw, that guy won't be joining your forum. Even though he is living on the streets for 5 years now and collects cans for money, he isn't interested in looking into how he creates his reality!!!!! cool2
 Quoting: Unit3


I'd be able to enjoy the stillness if my body wasn't on some cellular-level suicide mission.


Meh, maybe the guy enjoys living simply 1dunno1
 Quoting: CatCarel





Sorry....I missed this post until today.

Isn't the stillness of your cellular suicide a perspective you have created?

The guy just posted on his blog that he is a disgrace to the human race, so I don't think he is enjoying his simple life.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 12:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
will we be here on this thread beyond september-october?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516296


Will you be posting on this thread beyond October?

Probably.

Beyond December?

Probably not.
 Quoting: Chaol


...


Will you be posting on this thread beyond October?

Probably.

Beyond December?

Probably not.
 Quoting: Chaol


Why not beyond December?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1517925


The world is changing "rapidly" these days.

Certain technologies will not keep apace with the changes.

This website, and what it enables, may rely on those technologies that will become more irrelevant.
 Quoting: Chaol


Are you guys ready for something weird?

The more high strangeness that occurs, the more you will realize you are entering the 'dream' world.

Clearly, when we're prepared for one thing something totally different happens.
 Quoting: Chaol


Is it ecsys that will replace the Internet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1517925


No.

Horus-on-the-horizon will replace the internet.
 Quoting: Chaol


Not exactly how I remembered it but, even so, I didn't expect to still be posting like this by now.
 Quoting: Marshwiggle




His dates have been off before. He will be back soon now and answer these questions, heh!!!!
Unit3

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12/16/2012 12:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I found it and also rememberd another question I have. If Choal creates his perspective, why does he need a nexus point to travel back and forth between worlds? There is something I'm no understanding (or Chaol isn't) about our perception creating powers.

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 218)
 Quoting: Unit3


Thanks,, yes, he says he prefers living in this world.

And, re your above question.... maybe the nexus points simply allow him to make use of available extra energy.
 Quoting: Marshwiggle




Where does the extra energy come from if not his perspective? The way he talks about it, it seems it's something he has to take advantage of that is beyond his total control. Iow, he has to hitch a ride to speak to something that is happening beyond his control.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 12:56 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Are we?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556


No. The forum, thread, usernames, posts, etc. are props that, with interaction, create the perception of 'other people'. The posters would only say they are real because you believe yourself- and your perceptions- to be real.

'Cat Carel' is a means of exploring values in my perspective, as is my laptop, car, kitten, and shampoo.
 Quoting: CatCarel




Sure, it's all props....but are you saying you are not real? Not meaning the props, but whoever is exploring values?
 Quoting: Unit3


It's a concept similar to (or the same as) Solipsism.
Here's a description: [link to www.iep.utm.edu]

I was referring to my username as a means of communication on this forum, which leads to the discovery of new values in my perspective.

There's a chunk of posts in this thread where Chaol describes the loneliness of existence, as you create everything you perceive. I think it was in June.

Basically, a prop and symbol are the same, just like an event and a relationship.
 Quoting: CatCarel





Right. I get all that. Everything we see,feel, hear......we create, including our body. My question is: who is creating the perspective? What are we? And how do we create perspective without consciousness?
Jesse Sovoda
Jesse

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12/16/2012 01:28 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


No. The forum, thread, usernames, posts, etc. are props that, with interaction, create the perception of 'other people'. The posters would only say they are real because you believe yourself- and your perceptions- to be real.

'Cat Carel' is a means of exploring values in my perspective, as is my laptop, car, kitten, and shampoo.
 Quoting: CatCarel




Sure, it's all props....but are you saying you are not real? Not meaning the props, but whoever is exploring values?
 Quoting: Unit3


It's a concept similar to (or the same as) Solipsism.
Here's a description: [link to www.iep.utm.edu]

I was referring to my username as a means of communication on this forum, which leads to the discovery of new values in my perspective.

There's a chunk of posts in this thread where Chaol describes the loneliness of existence, as you create everything you perceive. I think it was in June.

Basically, a prop and symbol are the same, just like an event and a relationship.
 Quoting: CatCarel





Right. I get all that. Everything we see,feel, hear......we create, including our body. My question is: who is creating the perspective? What are we? And how do we create perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


Apparently it is not created, it is discovered through experience in the way most logical with the least number of interactions.
Nothing is irrelevant.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 01:35 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




Sure, it's all props....but are you saying you are not real? Not meaning the props, but whoever is exploring values?
 Quoting: Unit3


It's a concept similar to (or the same as) Solipsism.
Here's a description: [link to www.iep.utm.edu]

I was referring to my username as a means of communication on this forum, which leads to the discovery of new values in my perspective.

There's a chunk of posts in this thread where Chaol describes the loneliness of existence, as you create everything you perceive. I think it was in June.

Basically, a prop and symbol are the same, just like an event and a relationship.
 Quoting: CatCarel





Right. I get all that. Everything we see,feel, hear......we create, including our body. My question is: who is creating the perspective? What are we? And how do we create perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


Apparently it is not created, it is discovered through experience in the way most logical with the least number of interactions.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Discovered by whom, Jesse?
Jesse Sovoda
Jesse

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12/16/2012 03:08 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Discovered by the observer. You, that point of awareness.
Nothing is irrelevant.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 04:44 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Discovered by the observer. You, that point of awareness.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




From my understanding, unity with the observer is the enlightened state. However, it seems to me Chaol is saying not to chase enlightenment, but learn how we create our perspective. What's the difference or is it just language?

And, how does an observer explore perspectives without consciousness? The website says consciousness does not exist.

Thanks.

@Marshwiggle. In the example you gave of Chaol contradicting himself, he can't really say he is an alien because our worlds are merging.

He must also be very human looking if he can hang out in our world on the streets and not have black ops. show up, LOL!

So, I would say the term human is appropriate with the understanding that we are quickly moving away from physicality.
Marshwiggle

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12/16/2012 05:00 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
@Marshwiggle. In the example you gave of Chaol contradicting himself, he can't really say he is an alien because our worlds are merging.

He must also be very human looking if he can hang out in our world on the streets and not have black ops. show up, LOL!

So, I would say the term human is appropriate with the understanding that we are quickly moving away from physicality.
 Quoting: Unit3


I don't think he's ever described himself as an alien lol!

What I meant was he says 'we are not human' then he says his girlfriend knows him to be human.
Confusing!
Jesse Sovoda
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12/16/2012 05:33 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Discovered by the observer. You, that point of awareness.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




From my understanding, unity with the observer is the enlightened state. However, it seems to me Chaol is saying not to chase enlightenment, but learn how we create our perspective. What's the difference or is it just language?

And, how does an observer explore perspectives without consciousness? The website says consciousness does not exist.

Thanks.

@Marshwiggle. In the example you gave of Chaol contradicting himself, he can't really say he is an alien because our worlds are merging.

He must also be very human looking if he can hang out in our world on the streets and not have black ops. show up, LOL!

So, I would say the term human is appropriate with the understanding that we are quickly moving away from physicality.
 Quoting: Unit3


Why do you think this is true? If there is only one observer (perspective) you, then "unity with the observer" is all you ever experience.

Other "people" are (as I see it) representations (of yourself) that you experience in the "second person" or "third person". You directly experience and observe only in "first person".

Consciousness in the way we define it, exists only in the way these bodies exist or the computers we are using to post to this site exist.

As I see it, consciousness is a buzzword used to define that set of relationships that define a self-correcting-feedback loop we see in ourselves and others. It's a software program, a user interface for the "observer". But since nothing Truly exists, we can pick any word or topic and say it doesn't exist and be right... I just don't think we really understand this concept of existence anyway.

If we don't really understand what it means to say something exists, we can hardly say something doesn't.

We can use other buzzwords like "nothing", "illusion" "simulation" or "dream" but... it's all the same. A rose by any other name and all that.

We know that we're experiencing "this", whatever "this" is. Now whether this is "real" or not is not relevant, it's real enough. I don't really see it being all that useful to see our experience as an illusion.

It seems to me that it's more useful to recognize that our experience within perspective is exactly what takes the least amount of energy (number of interactions) to experience with the logic (we perceive ourselves confined to) and the possibility space we have for it to play out.

hf
Oh, and have you seen this one by Campbell?


Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 12/16/2012 06:40 PM
Nothing is irrelevant.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Discovered by the observer. You, that point of awareness.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




From my understanding, unity with the observer is the enlightened state. However, it seems to me Chaol is saying not to chase enlightenment, but learn how we create our perspective. What's the difference or is it just language?

And, how does an observer explore perspectives without consciousness? The website says consciousness does not exist.

Thanks.

@Marshwiggle. In the example you gave of Chaol contradicting himself, he can't really say he is an alien because our worlds are merging.

He must also be very human looking if he can hang out in our world on the streets and not have black ops. show up, LOL!

So, I would say the term human is appropriate with the understanding that we are quickly moving away from physicality.
 Quoting: Unit3


Why do you think this is true? If there is only one observer (perspective) you, then "unity with the observer" is all you ever experience.

Other "people" are (as I see it) representations (of yourself) that you experience in the "second person" or "third person". You directly experience and observe only in "first person".

Consciousness in the way we define it, exists only in the way these bodies exist or the computers we are using to post to this site exist.

As I see it, consciousness is a buzzword used to define that set of relationships that define a self-correcting-feedback loop we see in ourselves and others. It's a software program, a user interface for the "observer". But since nothing Truly exists, we can pick any word or topic and say it doesn't exist and be right... I just don't think we really understand this concept of existence anyway.

If we don't really understand what it means to say something exists, we can hardly say something doesn't.

We can use other buzzwords like "nothing", "illusion" "simulation" or "dream" but... it's all the same. A rose by any other name and all that.

We know that we're experiencing "this", whatever "this" is. Now whether this is "real" or not is not relevant, it's real enough. I don't really see it being all that useful to see our experience as an illusion.

It seems to me that it's more useful to recognize that our experience within perspective is exactly what takes the least amount of energy (number of interactions) to experience with the logic (we perceive ourselves confined to) and the possibility space we have for it to play out.

hf
Oh, and have you seen this one by Campbell?

 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



It makes sense that we only observe from the first person.
So do you feel I am a representation of you? (That would make you a representation of me so I don't see how this works.) Or is there one being seeing itself as many?

How can you say nothing truly exists? Do you feel you do not exist? How can there be an observer if nothing exists?

Do you feel Chaol has complete control of all of his perspectives?

Thanks for the conversation. I like exploring these thoughts. I'll watch the video, thanks!

hf
Unit3

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12/16/2012 08:51 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I thought I'd better start over reading Chaol's posts and look what I just found:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Everything truly exists. Like I mention above, When something cannot be fully perceived, it appears infinite.

Our language also enables us to perceive these alternate realities, if we want. One alterate realm is this one.

You exist in multiple realms now, at every moment. You could traverse hundreds of thousands of different possibilities in one day without knowing it.

So most of those bold statements are my understanding (before I met Chaol) of myself as spirit.

Edit: Found a contradiction:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 2)

"The answers" in the universe apply to everyone, not just an infinitesimally small percentage of the population.

We look to scientists for these answers because they're doing things that we don't understand. It is no different than how (in the past) we look to the religious elite for the answers.

But the answers are not found in science or religion or any one particular aspect of the schools and politics that we have created.

The answers are universal and have more to do with consciousness and perception.

I think Chaol believes in universal law.


And this poster asked Chaol how could there not be consciousness....Chaol asked him what consciousness is to him. Here are both their answers:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 2)

Consciousness to me..hmm that would be my own perception of myself, my awareness of my own being.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757374


Excellent!

Then the question for you then is, What do you consider your "self"?

If it is your body, then what do you do with a part of your self when you clip your nails or cut your hair? If it is only the 'living' part of your body that you consider your self, where does your self go when you lose a pound?

What is your self when you are dreaming?

"Self" by itself is a bit difficult to pin. Perhaps because the usual basic assumptions about what self is could be expanded.

If it is "awareness of my own being" as you mentioned, then what does it mean to be aware of another being?

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770


Last Edited by U3 on 12/16/2012 09:04 PM
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I forgot about this:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 2)

chaol says:


"It is interesting to me to see how it is assumed that cultures "obsessed" with entertainment and celebrity must be devolving.

We are learning how to use our minds more abstractly through fantasy. It doesn't matter what the fantasy is. What matters is that we are creating relationships that did not previously exist in our cognitive framework. Our fantasies are becoming richer. These kinds of mental exercises will lead most of us into a world based on mind rather than physicality.
Unit3

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12/16/2012 09:47 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Here's Chaol explaining consciousness:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 2)


"It was that consciousness is more about relationships between things than being fully aware of something.

One cannot be fully aware of anything. Consciousness is more of an illusion of the senses.

There is only "mind" and "senses" when one considers the influence of physically-based thinking.

It is not as easy to illustrate this when we're attached to the meaning of the words, having no others available.

It's all about perspective. Within perspective you could say there is consciousness, mind, senses, etc. But it is not the same as what we're used to."



Edit: Here we go:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 3)

"We create representations to 'define' our self all the time. It is this group of representations that create the world you see. (Ecsys defines consciousness as the relationship between representations.)"

And look at this:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 3)

"Can you explain the timing of your appearance in our world/ Why now and why on this forum (or have you appeared before)?

Does it have anything to do with the upcoming shift of this sphere to Fourth Density?
Quoting: Blake


Hello!

I'm a part of this world so thus interact accordingly, visiting websites, sipping drinks, and walking about.

I've not before been on this forum so am curious as to why my posting ID is lower than most others.

It is possible that other perspectives of mine have visited before. But I'm pretty sure I would know about it (kind of similar to knowing what your sister would do in a situation, except the sense is more vast)."

So this part about Chaol's other perspectives brings up a question.....we have more than one perspective!

Verrrry interesting. This doesn't sound like another self in another timeline.

Last Edited by U3 on 12/16/2012 10:28 PM
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Here's more:

Chaol on consciousness and Universal Laws:

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking. (Page 5)

"consciousness = relationships. An example of this would be two sounds together creating a third. The result of the two representations interacting, the third sound, is consciousness.)

Thanks."


A poster asks:

"So, if I can grasp what you are saying, there are no Universal laws, just perspectives?

How could one learn to exercise more control over his own perception?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757588


Hello!

There may be universal laws but I am not aware of any, nor aware of others who are aware.

I suppose if there were any 'laws' then they may be the following:

1) Everything is represented somehow
2) Representations naturally interact

Of course these would not be considered real laws here. But one can extrapolate laws from its vagueness. The resultant 'laws' would seem useful in the current system but would not really be useful in another system where there is a different cognitive framework."




I'll stop for tonight. Hope you guys are enjoying this.

Last Edited by U3 on 12/16/2012 11:05 PM
Jesse Sovoda
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It makes sense that we only observe from the first person.
So do you feel I am a representation of you? (That would make you a representation of me so I don't see how this works.) Or is there one being seeing itself as many?
 Quoting: Unit3


I'd agree that I(and everything else within your perspective) is (in some way) a representation of you. You only get to experience others through the information you receive from your various data streams (senses). The information you receive is not dependent on your physical body any more than you believe it is. We can perceive profound "hallucinatory" experiences that do not even depend on the senses we have in "this" reality frame. There is no difference between something that would be "objectively" perceived as "hallucinatory" or "real". Sharing True objective experience is just not possible. All experience is subjective and only you experience it.

How can you say nothing truly exists? Do you feel you do not exist? How can there be an observer if nothing exists?
 Quoting: Unit3


It's not that nothing truly exists... it's that only the relationships between fragments of you exist. And those only exist in an abstract framework that (at least for me) is beyond direct comprehension but are only there because an observer is looking to "make sense" of it. I think we see glimpses of this framework in the metaphors generated by Chaol (and the various other religious, spiritual, scientific and philosophical sources out there). I do "feel" that I exist and I do "fear" non existence. I've come to believe (but have and will never have received experiential data) that perception at the level where the "observer" exists cannot end or it all ends. We (I, You) can experience independent of all of the confines of the logical framework around us in "this" reality. That experience also "feels" real. So, with that being the case, which one is real? This one? The other one? Both? Neither? I guess it depends on your subjective definition of "real" or "existence".

Do you feel Chaol has complete control of all of his perspectives?
 Quoting: Unit3


Absolutely not. Complete control renders you the Genie.

Thanks for the conversation. I like exploring these thoughts. I'll watch the video, thanks!

hf
 Quoting: Unit3


Thank you, I always down to chat about all this.
edit-(awesome Chaol quotes btw Unit)

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 12/17/2012 08:28 AM
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Chaol

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12/17/2012 10:07 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Greetings.
Chaol

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12/17/2012 10:10 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As usual, I'll need a few days to re-adjust myself.

Glad to be back!
Jesse Sovoda
Jesse

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12/17/2012 10:13 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As usual, I'll need a few days to re-adjust myself.

Glad to be back!
 Quoting: Chaol


Really glad to have you. Take your time. I hope you had a good "trip".
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Chaol

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12/17/2012 10:17 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Through your extensive details and also the above statements you are all ready limiting your 'future' perspective.

Letting your sub-conscious work out the details really means not thinking about it too much.

Just briefly thing of what you want the perspective to be, create the symbol and the other elements, and let it go.

When you detail it so much you are actually satisfying the experience of it and making it less likely that it would happen.
 Quoting: Chaol

Okay, I can make another Genius map with less details on the goal. The reason why I added these details is because I learned somewhere else, that successful people have a clear vision on their goals and they even write it down. I thought knowing the exact thing that I want to experience is the best to reach it.

You also mentioned I should use one crazy rule instead of a few conditional rules. May I ask what is not a conditional rule? If I had to do anything without condition, I would be doing it all day. Everything has a condition or a trigger let's say.
If you do something every weekend, that is a condition (if today is Saturday or Sunday then do something). Even in your example on ecsys.org you write stuff like: if you showed your drawing of a car to anyone then draw another one. Or if you draw your dream car, then always draw its wheels black.

Do you see it? Every rule is a conditional rule. So I don't see what is the problem with the rules in my Genius model. Too many of them maybe? Then next time I will just add one rule.

By the way, if I modify any element of the model (eg. only the logic) then I have to change the others as well, thus basically making a new Genius model? If that is the case, is it safe to throw out some old Genius models that did not seem to work? Or throwing them out will bring me farther away from my goal as a kind of revenge?
I just don't want to end up with having to follow a whole bunch of stupid rules after a few trials on different Genius models :)

Chaol: now that you said my models are not likely to bring the car closer to me, I think I will soon dump these not-likely-to-work models and create a new one. Can you please recommend a proper Genius model for my new car that is going to work?
 Quoting: madcaddy


Hi.

I'm not sure what good my answer will do. I'm again starting from scratch. But it seems that the issue is that you have too many rules (in the above) where a single rule would work better.

Think of it this way... one 'crazy' rule wakes up your sub-conscious. One or more rules with too many conditions confuse it and turns it off.

I'll have to respond in a few days about a recommended model. Me thinks is a bit fuzzy now.
Unit3

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12/17/2012 10:32 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Greetings.
 Quoting: Chaol





Hello! Welcome back. Yay! ana chorus


Whenever you're ready, I'm all ears!

red_heart



Edit: I'd also be interested in hearing your observations of us now that you are back. We have been a busy bunch this past month!!!!

Also, how was your trip?

Last Edited by U3 on 12/18/2012 11:03 AM
Unit3

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12/17/2012 10:54 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I'd agree that I(and everything else within your perspective) is (in some way) a representation of you. You only get to experience others through the information you receive from your various data streams (senses). The information you receive is not dependent on your physical body any more than you believe it is. All experience is subjective and only you experience it.

Thank you, I always down to chat about all this.
edit-(awesome Chaol quotes btw Unit)
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda






The way I looked at all this before Chaol, is everything is consciousness; therefore, everything I perceive (and I agree, perception goes beyond the senses), is alive, even though I can manipulate it.

However, what I've been grappling with is the statement: there is no consciousness. Then, I found the quote: consciousness = relationships.....2 representations result in a 3rd and this is consciousness.

Still thinking on this one.



Jesse said:

"I guess it depends on your subjective definition of "real" or "existence"."

Lightbulb moment for me, heh!

I'm placing a subjective meaning on what's real. The question could also be, what's not real. I can change my perceptions. Does that make them real or not real. I believe in them until I change them and then I believe in the newer ones, LOL!

Does that make the older ones real then not real when I observe the newer ones? It all only exists as I observe it and it's real because I believe it is.


If Chaol (and all of us) do not have complete control, then there must be universal laws of some kind. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Even within chaos, we are able to create perceptions that make sense.

Last Edited by U3 on 12/17/2012 10:56 AM
Unit3

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12/17/2012 11:05 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
@Marshwiggle. In the example you gave of Chaol contradicting himself, he can't really say he is an alien because our worlds are merging.

He must also be very human looking if he can hang out in our world on the streets and not have black ops. show up, LOL!

So, I would say the term human is appropriate with the understanding that we are quickly moving away from physicality.
 Quoting: Unit3


I don't think he's ever described himself as an alien lol!

What I meant was he says 'we are not human' then he says his girlfriend knows him to be human.
Confusing!
 Quoting: Marshwiggle




I also can imagine the difficulties he has in explaining things to us. First off, we don't have words for some of the things he tells us about. Secondly, he has to scale replies to different perspectives so they might understand what he is saying to that particular perspective. And third, you might say not only is he speaking in a foreign language, he is also living in a foreign culture.

I'll admit, he seems to have a great handle on our culture though. He surprises me quite often, LOL!

Edit: Also, he said somewhere that we had moved into advanced knowledge. So, that changes older understandings. Geez, I think I just blew my mind up, heh!!!!

Last Edited by U3 on 12/17/2012 12:25 PM

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