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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Chaol

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12/21/2012 06:34 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I'd invite anyone that has had results with their GENIUS to feel free to share here if you feel to do so.

I notice people will post and say the Genius works, but then kind of back off from telling more about it. It could be for any number of reasons and it's your business anyway. But, just know I, for one, would enjoy discussing how we see the plans working.

I wouldn't even mind a discussion analyzing the GENIUS. Chaol says we already use it so I've thought a lot about it. I understand how I create space. I have a desire so I'm looking into it by reading about it, visiting places that relate to it, etc:.

I don't quite understand how I leave a nonsensical symbol in that space though. Does a piece of lint from my sweater with a hint of the blueberry jam from breakfast, accidentally drop off in the space?

I've also thought about the logic. I can be kinda wild and crazy, but not consistently in places (spaces) I visit.
 Quoting: Unit3


As part of the more advanced uses of Ecsys and neuronics we will learn to make use of the understanding that every experience is one of unique symbols.

The doorknob you touched yesterday is entirely unique from the one today. (One that has of course interacted with other aspects of our perspective that would be called "past" and, thus, seems like the same from yesterday.)

You use the Genius at every moment.

It is what 'creates' the illusion of physically-oriented existence.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 06:47 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I set my electronics free and now they have a mind of their own. They won't post if they don't want to! My Kindle is still cooperating so far.
 Quoting: 6853315 1298031

I can see there is a definite space thing going on, LOL! Would love to hear more about it but it might be difficult for you right now. I am looking forward to the day when I can interface with electronics organically. Lucky you!

Edit: Btw, did you use a GENIUS to set them free? Also, I think you could use a GENIUS to get them to co-operate with you a little better.
 Quoting: Unit3


Some may have success in modeling an electronic component in their mind (i.e., in a more relative perspective) and working with it there.

In this way you could, for example, turn on a device from 20 feet away or (as I tend to do) fix something that is broken.

If someone was talking with herself during this process the exchange could go something like this way:

"My laptop is broken. I will make a Genius model of the laptop in my mind because the laptop exists in my perspective. Although it is not as relative as is my hand it is entirely in my perspective and it can be fixed if I change ("fix") my perspective of it. So now I imagine a black box with pictures and other information on it, which will serve as my symbol of it. I need not know how a laptop works but only how perspective works because it exists entirely in my perspective. I imagine it in the palm of my hand. My fingers interact with the pictures and manipulate the information. But wait.. it's breaking. My fingers have much more difficulty in moving the pictures around. I will put my mental laptop down on the floor and crack my fingers and exercise them. I will also blow into the laptop to clear away any defects within the perception. Now I will pick up the laptop and close it and open it again. I will now power on the other aspect of my mental laptop (the more physical laptop that was broken). It works, so now I can use it."

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/23/2012 01:34 PM
Chaol

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12/21/2012 06:49 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I feel like this is what is holding me back, and would appreciate any comments or suggestions...

The success of the genius clearly is related to "living in the now" and having NO expectations.

 Quoting: DODEC 20177375


Your Genius is much "smarter" (or wise) than you are so it's best not to have expectations about it.

You'll often be surprised about how ingenious the path to your desired perspective may be.

(It's something that you probably would not have thought of when so closely married to physical perspective.)

Does anyone know or have knowledge of what Chaol says about how our representation morphs or becomes the actual thing it represents?

Does it switch along the way?

Appreciate all help,
I feel like I am close and have learned a lot in the past few days.

<3
DODEC
 Quoting: DODEC 20177375


The representations have different aspects. Some are mental (dreams, thoughts, etc) and some are more physically oriented in a similar way to what you consider yourself to be (you'd call this the "real" version).

The representation does not morph. You could say that your experience with the representation morphs.

You can shift between different versions of the same thing. You can also make use of multiple representations simultaneously.

The illusion and the real thing are both representations of the same thing. You just call one illusion real because it's a sibling and the other one not-Real because it's a cousin.

Hope this helps.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/21/2012 06:53 PM
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I set my electronics free and now they have a mind of their own. They won't post if they don't want to! My Kindle is still cooperating so far.
 Quoting: 6853315 1298031

I can see there is a definite space thing going on, LOL! Would love to hear more about it but it might be difficult for you right now. I am looking forward to the day when I can interface with electronics organically. Lucky you!

Edit: Btw, did you use a GENIUS to set them free? Also, I think you could use a GENIUS to get them to co-operate with you a little better.
 Quoting: Unit3

Even my Kindle wouldn't post, so I am surprised to see my post made its way here.

No Genius used. Just a sudden comprehension of how everything is composed of electricity or photons or neutrinos or whatever particle one wants to use as a representation. I don't want to be a dictator by telling everything that it has to conform to my wishes. So, I told everything that it was free to do whatever it wanted. Well, one ceiling light went out and then another one that could see the first one went out. One of the lights on the outside of my house was still on around mid-morning, and when I went to turn it off, all the switches were off! I peeked at it again, and it had turned itself off. Then the one dead ceiling light came on when I flipped the switch. They're having a party! Running free!

I also tried to post to the Neuronics thread. I wanted to say that the neuronicons look like lightning or electrical arcs. They're circuits. Get it? You can rewire your perception by rewiring the neurons in your brain using the circuitry that Chaol introduced to us. The gaps between the handwritten icons mimic the gaps between the neurons in your brain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


This is quite amusing for me to hear how you've discovered that your electronics have 'a mind of their own'.

It's not a Terminator-type scenario where they're waiting to take over or evolving consciousness.

Every aspect of your perspective is related to something else. The relationship is what you'd call consciousness.

The components of an electronic device (or anything else, for that matter) are related to what you are in some way. They are also related to other parts of your perspective.

Don't confuse the inside of an electronic device with its meaning. (It's value, or meaning, is roughly illustrated in the components but we need not know anything about the components the same way you don't need to know about cellular biology in order to communicate with your friends.)

When a device relates to your world it will bring you the news. A music device is an expression of a type of musical relationships, not just a machine that reproduces the sound for your enjoyment.

When you are reading something off of your Kindle the device is as much what you are reading as you are. There is an interaction between both of you. Your Kindle is telling you a story. It knows who you are like you think your dog might. It relates to you in multiple aspects.

Letting your electronics go isn't losing them. It's just allowing them to more fully-express their own values. It's the subconscious, in a way.

You can maintain strict dictates on your subconscious (which is what the 'conscious' is) and all is fine. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

You can also allow your subconscious to more fully-express its own values.

Your Kindle is not an electronic device. It is you. A part of your subconscious no different from the Kindle in your dream.

(In the dream the inside of the Kindle need not exist, either. Only the relationships matter.)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:10 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A ways back in this thread, there is a discussion regarding oppression. Chaol said something about how "they" enslaved us with the Industrial Revolution and how "they" are now seeking new ways to enslave us.

Well, since our perception is based on the geometry that occurs between pulses of light, with the frequency determining the possibilities, then "they" could enslave us by controlling light pulses. Thus, there are Lily waves, microwaves, ULF, ELF, VLF (ultra-low, extra-low and very low frequencies), the frequencies emanating from TVs and radios and whatever else "they" have come up with.

The flouride in toothpaste is an electrical conductor. It is in our bodies and acts as a receiver of waves of light pulses. Aluminum is also a type of conductor. The chemtrails are full of aluminum, which are reflecting or conducting pulses, or something like that.

Anyway, it is all based on the frequency of light pulses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


"They" is all ways "you".

So we create these stories to make sense of how we are ignoring other values in our perspective.

It's impossible not to ignore other values so there's nothing wrong with this.

Neither is there anything wrong with whatever story we come up with.

It could be said (though I did not quite imply the content of your first paragraph) that different aspects of your perspective try to overpower it by interacting with more things but it's a natural process. We get caught up in the details and specifics but it's irrelevant. The true value is in the relationships (and the geometry thereof).

Usually we only see (and care about) the story that we've created to make sense of the geometry of relationships. This is how we understand and is valid because it assists in our understanding of this geometry.

We need not understand the geometry (it's kind of boring, anyway) but only need to understand the geometry through the drama of the relationships (much more exciting and human, and leads to the same understanding although in a different way).

That's why I have said that you are as likely to "become enlightened" (or whatever it's called these days) watching a television drama or playing a game or stepping in mud as you are meditating or going to church.

It's about the relationships, not the way we make sense of them.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
He, he! I still don't fully understand how we do this, yet it keeps happening more and more in my life. And, one day, it was so much, I changed a Genius plan a little, and it slowed things down. Yet, I still don't know what I'm really doing. 1dunno1

I will say this Jesse, I too have a witness to some of this stuff which makes me realize in some way, my perspective is overlapping to theirs. Sounds like you are experiencing the same. What is your wife's response to all this?
 Quoting: Unit3


Some of us are quite frightened of this power and the ability to do anything.

The ability of the Genius, the subconscious is only as limited as our perceptions.

What could be more frightening to these few than what can be perceived?

Once you've seen it, you cannot unsee it!

To those that are a bit scared by the power of the subconscious or what it's capable of I can say that the only thing to fear is wanting to unsee it.

Being "okay" with whatever is of your Genius is probably the best thing you could do for your total perspective.

Yes, there are some frightening things there. But it is only frightening because you have learned how to avoid it.

There is nothing actually scary in and of your subconscious.

Once you stop resisting you'll find that you are okay with that part of yourself.

You'll feel better, too ;)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well... The genius brought me close to my dream car. I saw it but could not buy it through lack of funds. I tried every way I knew. I just learned the car is sold to a Peugeot enthousiast who will restore it.
 Quoting: tuuuuur


For your next one, think of what you want as a thought.

A thought can go away but it can also come back.

When you impose rules on what you want, it will act accordingly.

What you are seeking is a perspective rather than something out of your control.

You did well with this one and I'm sure we look forward to helping you with the next ;)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:22 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
If I ever get 500 MM you could just buy it from him after restored with your 50 mil
 Quoting: DODEC 20177375


We treat such things as 'real' or physical objects when they're not.

$5 dollars is the same as $5 billion dollars.

It is the same perspective.

Our relation to either is what determines our experience of the perspective.

They're both illusions.

The question to ask is, "Why is $5 more relative to me than $500 million dollars?"
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:34 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I don't know if it's related, but something very interesting happened:

In the place where I live, insects are very rare to find, but this year in particular, a lot of small spiders are appearing. In the last week I saw a roach. The funny thing is that I was walking to the kitchen and didn't saw it, wich would be something difficult to happen. I just saw it the moment I was coming back and it was actually dead, like I've stomped it. It was like the roach appeared exactly under my shoes. But I can't said with 100% confidence that the roach wasn't there in the first time.

So let's continue...

A few days later, after I just spotted a spider, I was thinking that I had already saw spiders and a roach, so, from the types of animals that I ever saw around here, small geckos, flies and a small type of centipede that we call here 'lacraia' were missing from the group. So, yesterday, I woke up and a fly was flying in the bathroom. Later, I was going to my grandmother's house and for the first time after years I saw a small gecko outside . I almost couldn't believe it.

To complete the story, just now, I was watching a movie and at the moment that the movie ended, I spotted a small 'lacraia' coming from behind the TV in the wall.

Everything happened in 2 weeks.
 Quoting: Gespenst

Gosh, Gespenset. I think this is the longest post you have ever made. Your English is excellent!

Coincidence?
 Quoting: Gespenst

Conservation of energy. We perceive what is the easiest to see.

Things are getting weirder, aren't they? Lots of surprises in this new land.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


In a way this is similar to someone close to us talking about pregnancy and "all of a sudden" pregnant women come out of nowhere for the following two weeks.

In a way the pregnant women were all ready there (as values in our perspective).

In an other way it is now easier for us to incorporate pregnant women into our experience because we have changed (if only temporarily) our perspective.

We have a relationship with this brand of physicality so it's usually throughout our perspective.

It is easier for us to experience this brand of physicality but it does not mean it is the only way that we can experience ourselves.

When we develop more of a relationship with other parts of our perspective we will experience them more. (Sometimes it will envelop us, like what we think of as the physical world, because we have such a strong relationship with it.)

To do this, don't kill your current relationship but create and focus on an other one. (Like you didn't have to destroy the perception of 3 non-pregnant women in order to perceive of 3 pregnant women.)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Things are getting weirder, aren't they? Lots of surprises in this new land.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


It has only just begun :)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:37 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]

I really can't believe everything I've achieved in such a short period of time and I really owe it to Chaol and his insights.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28653346


I'm only reminding you of what you all ready know.

I am a part of your perspective, wouldn't ya know =D
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I still don't know HOW the genius works but it does for me. I keep thinking back to we perceive that which takes the least energy to perceive. When I create any genius model, I don't know how what's going to happen will happen. I just know and believe that it will happen due to the genius model I created. I follow the rules as specified by Chaol since he's the expert and it works. It's not magic though but it does work.

I must have some issues with my expectations of millions or even with my genius model for millions itself since that hasn't manifested yet but I am not broke so maybe the genius is working. Chaol did say it could take up to 3 months to see a shift. I played my first Canadian lotto on Saturday so fingers crossed (I know I just did something not right there). Focusing on just one aspect or outcome is a no-no but I can't help it!

Oh well, I'm happy with what I have achieved using ec so far and can't wait to see what next is in store.

Everyone is doing it the right way, you just have to trust that you are hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28653346


Far from an expert. It would be like you going to an other world and explaining how the money system works. There's so much that I don't know but I am happy to help you understand what I do.

You could say that it takes about 2-3 months to clear out old perspectives and adopt new ones.

The change is simultaneous, of course, but our brains make up a story so that it makes sense. (So the illustration of the story takes about 3 months. Less time if you're comfortable with not being who you think you are.)

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/21/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Something that I have forgotten to do is to respect the logic of others. I keep forgetting that all answers are pertinent to the geometry of the environment from which they emerge. That all of this is an exploration of a value, viewed from every possible angle.

I want to remember this to the point that it is unshakeable and a solid part of my thought process. The resistance to things with which I disagree is too uncomfortable for me and I feel that I am missing something important when I do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


Respecting the logic of others is really being "ok" with the different values of perspective.

Anything is logical, but to your perspective only certain things are logical.

Until you change your perspective, of course.

And to one perspective, an other perspective may not make sense (when it does to itself).

Hope this helps.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:49 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thank you. Something I realized as I read this is I also have a reverse thing going on too. There are things I don't want to change.

I have several relatives, all in their late 80's and early 90's. I enjoy them very much. I have often thought that something I am doing is keeping them here. Because really, they probably should have left by now, or at least some of them. Their trials are difficult, yet somehow, each of them makes it through to a brighter day, at least in some way.

They inspire me as I watch them and they have a tenderness that brings tears to my eyes. I have even felt guilty for keeping them here even though I can't say I know how I am doing so, if in fact that is the case. Since it's my perspective, I guess it is.

I know Chaol says this:

"If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."

This is the challenge for me.
 Quoting: Unit3


It is not necessary to see your reality as a single perspective.

But if you really want to, then it would probably be difficult when some values have meaningless designations (because you would then be assigning your own values that have no useful meaning).

For illustration only, in what perspective might a bad monster be good? It's own.

Which perspective is correct? Neither. They're both illusions.

Considering one thing is good while an other is bad is a waste of energy because neither exist. Both are a part of your perspective.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
"If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."

This is the challenge for me.
 Quoting: Unit3

A challenge for me too!

When I think of good vs. bad, I see the yin/yang symbol, where half of a circle is white (with a spot of black in it), and the other half is black (with a spot of white in it). Instead of the stark borders of the symbol, I see instead a shading effect of white dissipating into black, and black merging into white.

It seems to be a very instructive symbol of how both black and white combine to form one perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


We are looking for a way to relate to something.

It does not matter how.

So (actually quite randomly) some things we call good while others are bad. We then learn to make sense of these 'random' designations.

3 people being killed is worse than 300,000 being killed, for example. Scrambled eggs are good while fried eggs are bad. We develop a whole library of these meaningless things.

It does not matter what we call it (to our subconscious) only that we relate to it in some way. It need not be good or bad.

If you really wanted to "be okay" with what you consider bad things it does not mean becoming bad yourself. This is irrelevant (since "bad" is what you make it).

Just find a new way to relate to what you consider "bad".
Chaol

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12/21/2012 08:00 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
alas my numbers don't match, but then again... maybe no one's do. Till the next lotto drawing

We Ride....
 Quoting: DODEC 20177375


Sure. Not if you think of it in the traditional sense.

Why not see your numbers match right now, in a different way?

 Quoting: Chaol


Trying to think untraditionally...

but not coming up with anything useful.

Can you elaborate Chaol?


Thanks
 Quoting: Dodec 20177375


Step 1, Step 2, Step 3...

you make the order above through your perspective and you transition through it.

But it's arbitrary and meaningless. The order does not matter, only the relationship. (The same relationship is still there even without the order than you perceive.)

Why not make it Step 2, Step 3, Step 1?

"Win the lottery" first and then see your numbers match. Make up your own logic for the perspective.

Has someone ever told you to taste "milk" that was actually water? But you could swear that it was milk for the first couple of seconds?

The details are not important. Only the perspective.

But if we focus on the details then we miss the importance of perspective and forget that it takes precedence.

Hope this helps.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/21/2012 08:03 PM
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Sol represents this particular brand of physicality. Everything physical (as we know it) has its 'origin' there.

Every 'level' of physicality has a sun, you could say. From the particles on up to the universe.

The potential energy of the sun is made relative through interaction (solar activity).

However, this activity is as much in your body as in what appears to be the center of your solar system.

In one way it's the same thing.

In an other, perhaps more practical, way it's a connection. (In this way you can reach other possibilities of physically-oriented experience.) It's one reason you could stand next to it and not burn (although your clothes and equipment may, as they have a less-relative 'sun' at their center).

The universe is, indeed, your body in all respects.
 Quoting: Chaol



Yes, otherwise, we couldn't perceive it. And since it all operates by "laws," I think we are proving there is a Universal Source.
 Quoting: Unit3


What laws might those be?

It does not seem to follow that there is a "Universal Source" beyond your own perspective, implied from the above.
 Quoting: Chaol




The laws are if I interact with symbols a certain way, I see a certain perception.

There must also be a law that there are symbols in the first place to be interacted with.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Sol represents this particular brand of physicality. Everything physical (as we know it) has its 'origin' there.

Every 'level' of physicality has a sun, you could say. From the particles on up to the universe.

The potential energy of the sun is made relative through interaction (solar activity).

However, this activity is as much in your body as in what appears to be the center of your solar system.

In one way it's the same thing.

In an other, perhaps more practical, way it's a connection. (In this way you can reach other possibilities of physically-oriented experience.) It's one reason you could stand next to it and not burn (although your clothes and equipment may, as they have a less-relative 'sun' at their center).

The universe is, indeed, your body in all respects.
 Quoting: Chaol



Yes, otherwise, we couldn't perceive it. And since it all operates by "laws," I think we are proving there is a Universal Source.
 Quoting: Unit3


What laws might those be?

It does not seem to follow that there is a "Universal Source" beyond your own perspective, implied from the above.
 Quoting: Chaol




The laws are if I interact with symbols a certain way, I see a certain perception.

There must also be a law that there are symbols in the first place to be interacted with.
 Quoting: Unit3


You seem to be implying that the symbol is independent of your perception.

The interaction is your perception, as is the symbol, the potential, and the law.

The laws that you make are as flexible as your perspective. As are the symbols.

There is only perspective. Nothing else need be.

And for perspective there is only one "law"
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:23 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



Which gets us back to the question of existence and non-existence. It doesn't exist until it is perceived. We use symbols so we can perceive it. Where do the symbols and/or the knowledge to use them come from?

In our world, we use them without even knowing how. So, they exist.
 Quoting: Unit3


I imagine it "happened" something like this...

In the beginning (yes the very beginning) there was nothing. This nothing is not nothing, it's something. It is impossible to define as it lies outside of anything we can or will ever perceive (it is perception). This "ability to perceive" required additional things be generated at the same time. It "presupposed" a random soup of pure "true" randomness. Within that "perspective", patterns emerged and not necessarily in a physical sense. Could have been the most simple of concepts at first, but in "true" randomness (without time) you can have complex patterns emerge (including time and the observer). Some could just have initial conditions where minute changes over time are allowed. Include continued existence for a concept that can grow in meaning and adjust itself based on what it is currently experiencing.

You see, I don't know that nothing exists, because nothing is as random as possible. Nothing is ever provable. You can only collect evidence of experience and work to predict and understand the probability for it to happen. This evidence allows you to judge how the future can behave.

As I see it, this is how you(we) got here. Or if nothing else, it is how we formed within the framework of these "physical bodies" and their perceived environment. All of your past could have been generated (in whole) at this moment with you as complex as you are.

Edit- Not only did we come into being capable of experience like this, I believe it is this possibility space that we abuse by using the Genius. We provide perspective a possibility for something previously not logical. Once we allow it to interact it is queued into experience. The more irrelevant the symbol the more possibility for that beautiful "true" random to be abused(utilized).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



I totally agree with the bolded statement.

I couldn't say about the rest but thank you for sharing it. Gives me a lot to think about.

When I consider that I am at this very moment, perceiving a body, a computer in a room, sitting in a chair, a past, a future, family, etc:, etc:, etc;, without knowing how, then it must be that there is a mind or intelligent design. Something that is providing "material" for me to arrange into perspective.

How could it be otherwise? I don't know what I'm doing but there is some kind of GENIUS involved, LOL!


What is your definition of the subconscious? (Let's not assume any of us knows what anyone else is basing logic on.) I am thinking, at this point, the subconscious is the universal mind that I tap into and re-arrange for perspective of endless possibilities.
 Quoting: Unit3


Subconscious, from a hypnotherapy standpoint is the part of you that you're unaware of. I'd argue that's true.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Why is everyone's subconscious the same?
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



Yes, otherwise, we couldn't perceive it. And since it all operates by "laws," I think we are proving there is a Universal Source.
 Quoting: Unit3


What laws might those be?

It does not seem to follow that there is a "Universal Source" beyond your own perspective, implied from the above.
 Quoting: Chaol




The laws are if I interact with symbols a certain way, I see a certain perception.

There must also be a law that there are symbols in the first place to be interacted with.
 Quoting: Unit3


You seem to be implying that the symbol is independent of your perception.

The interaction is your perception, as is the symbol, the potential, and the law.

The laws that you make are as flexible as your perspective. As are the symbols.

There is only perspective. Nothing else need be.

And for perspective there is only one "law"
 Quoting: Chaol



I can buy that.

So the one law is there is only perception?

And can you explain how I know use my perception even though I don't know HOW I use it?

Last Edited by U3 on 12/21/2012 08:25 PM
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:35 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
He, he! I still don't fully understand how we do this, yet it keeps happening more and more in my life. And, one day, it was so much, I changed a Genius plan a little, and it slowed things down. Yet, I still don't know what I'm really doing. 1dunno1

I will say this Jesse, I too have a witness to some of this stuff which makes me realize in some way, my perspective is overlapping to theirs. Sounds like you are experiencing the same. What is your wife's response to all this?
 Quoting: Unit3


Some of us are quite frightened of this power and the ability to do anything.

The ability of the Genius, the subconscious is only as limited as our perceptions.

What could be more frightening to these few than what can be perceived?

Once you've seen it, you cannot unsee it!

To those that are a bit scared by the power of the subconscious or what it's capable of I can say that the only thing to fear is wanting to unsee it.

Being "okay" with whatever is of your Genius is probably the best thing you could do for your total perspective.

Yes, there are some frightening things there. But it is only frightening because you have learned how to avoid it.

There is nothing actually scary in and of your subconscious.

Once you stop resisting you'll find that you are okay with that part of yourself.

You'll feel better, too ;)
 Quoting: Chaol



It was funny because I thought I was ready for new stuff and found out I wasn't quite as ready as I thought!

How does one deal with resistance? And, who is resisting?

Last Edited by U3 on 12/21/2012 09:57 PM
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Things are getting weirder, aren't they? Lots of surprises in this new land.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


It has only just begun :)
 Quoting: Chaol





Heh! rockon
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thank you. Something I realized as I read this is I also have a reverse thing going on too. There are things I don't want to change.

I have several relatives, all in their late 80's and early 90's. I enjoy them very much. I have often thought that something I am doing is keeping them here. Because really, they probably should have left by now, or at least some of them. Their trials are difficult, yet somehow, each of them makes it through to a brighter day, at least in some way.

They inspire me as I watch them and they have a tenderness that brings tears to my eyes. I have even felt guilty for keeping them here even though I can't say I know how I am doing so, if in fact that is the case. Since it's my perspective, I guess it is.

I know Chaol says this:

"If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."

This is the challenge for me.
 Quoting: Unit3


It is not necessary to see your reality as a single perspective.

But if you really want to, then it would probably be difficult when some values have meaningless designations (because you would then be assigning your own values that have no useful meaning).

For illustration only, in what perspective might a bad monster be good? It's own.

Which perspective is correct? Neither. They're both illusions.

Considering one thing is good while an other is bad is a waste of energy because neither exist. Both are a part of your perspective.
 Quoting: Chaol




Aha! Thank you for that thought. They are in my perspective and I assign values.

Now tell me how perspective is illusion? Because I can manipulate it?

Last Edited by U3 on 12/21/2012 08:42 PM
Dodec
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12/21/2012 09:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Step 1, Step 2, Step 3...

you make the order above through your perspective and you transition through it.

But it's arbitrary and meaningless. The order does not matter, only the relationship. (The same relationship is still there even without the order than you perceive.)

Why not make it Step 2, Step 3, Step 1?

"Win the lottery" first and then see your numbers match. Make up your own logic for the perspective.

Has someone ever told you to taste "milk" that was actually water? But you could swear that it was milk for the first couple of seconds?

The details are not important. Only the perspective.

But if we focus on the details then we miss the importance of perspective and forget that it takes precedence.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol


Conceptually I get that perspective of relationships is all that matters and that the rest is illusory and subject to the logic we "believe" for our current perspective.

But, how can i shift through a current representation in my "real" perspective in order to arrive at winning the lottery first?

It makes sense that it is possible, I'm just not sure how to practically achieve it.

I could create relationships around the way I would act, see, etc. as if I had won the lottery and then let my perspective shift filling in a past where I had winning numbers. Just not sure how it is feasible

Any help is appreciated,
DODEC
Jesse Sovoda
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12/21/2012 09:45 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
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I imagine it "happened" something like this...

In the beginning (yes the very beginning) there was nothing. This nothing is not nothing, it's something. It is impossible to define as it lies outside of anything we can or will ever perceive (it is perception). This "ability to perceive" required additional things be generated at the same time. It "presupposed" a random soup of pure "true" randomness. Within that "perspective", patterns emerged and not necessarily in a physical sense. Could have been the most simple of concepts at first, but in "true" randomness (without time) you can have complex patterns emerge (including time and the observer). Some could just have initial conditions where minute changes over time are allowed. Include continued existence for a concept that can grow in meaning and adjust itself based on what it is currently experiencing.

You see, I don't know that nothing exists, because nothing is as random as possible. Nothing is ever provable. You can only collect evidence of experience and work to predict and understand the probability for it to happen. This evidence allows you to judge how the future can behave.

As I see it, this is how you(we) got here. Or if nothing else, it is how we formed within the framework of these "physical bodies" and their perceived environment. All of your past could have been generated (in whole) at this moment with you as complex as you are.

Edit- Not only did we come into being capable of experience like this, I believe it is this possibility space that we abuse by using the Genius. We provide perspective a possibility for something previously not logical. Once we allow it to interact it is queued into experience. The more irrelevant the symbol the more possibility for that beautiful "true" random to be abused(utilized).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



I totally agree with the bolded statement.

I couldn't say about the rest but thank you for sharing it. Gives me a lot to think about.

When I consider that I am at this very moment, perceiving a body, a computer in a room, sitting in a chair, a past, a future, family, etc:, etc:, etc;, without knowing how, then it must be that there is a mind or intelligent design. Something that is providing "material" for me to arrange into perspective.

How could it be otherwise? I don't know what I'm doing but there is some kind of GENIUS involved, LOL!


What is your definition of the subconscious? (Let's not assume any of us knows what anyone else is basing logic on.) I am thinking, at this point, the subconscious is the universal mind that I tap into and re-arrange for perspective of endless possibilities.
 Quoting: Unit3


Subconscious, from a hypnotherapy standpoint is the part of you that you're unaware of. I'd argue that's true.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Why is everyone's subconscious the same?
 Quoting: Unit3


If we are one perspective, then that part of you that you're not aware of is the same for everything.
Nothing is irrelevant.
Unit3

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12/21/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



I totally agree with the bolded statement.

I couldn't say about the rest but thank you for sharing it. Gives me a lot to think about.

When I consider that I am at this very moment, perceiving a body, a computer in a room, sitting in a chair, a past, a future, family, etc:, etc:, etc;, without knowing how, then it must be that there is a mind or intelligent design. Something that is providing "material" for me to arrange into perspective.

How could it be otherwise? I don't know what I'm doing but there is some kind of GENIUS involved, LOL!


What is your definition of the subconscious? (Let's not assume any of us knows what anyone else is basing logic on.) I am thinking, at this point, the subconscious is the universal mind that I tap into and re-arrange for perspective of endless possibilities.
 Quoting: Unit3


Subconscious, from a hypnotherapy standpoint is the part of you that you're unaware of. I'd argue that's true.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Why is everyone's subconscious the same?
 Quoting: Unit3


If we are one perspective, then that part of you that you're not aware of is the same for everything.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




I do feel there is a part of me I"m not aware of, just wondering how I got there.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:12 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You seem to be implying that the symbol is independent of your perception.

The interaction is your perception, as is the symbol, the potential, and the law.

The laws that you make are as flexible as your perspective. As are the symbols.

There is only perspective. Nothing else need be.

And for perspective there is only one "law"
 Quoting: Chaol


I can buy that.

So the one law is there is only perception?

And can you explain how I know use my perception even though I don't know HOW I use it?
 Quoting: Unit3


The 'law', if ever there was one, is that no energy is independent of your perspective.

So, accordingly there is nothing beyond your perspective. Your perspective is all there is.

You know how to use something because you represent it in an other way.

You don't have to know how computers work in one way -through on/off states - because you know how to use how the process is represented - through icons and gestures. (Though the on/off states are also representations of something else.)

In this way we can breathe without direct knowledge of respiration, walk and jump without a direct understanding of calculus, see without a direct understanding of optics, etc.

Because everything is represented. And we work with the representations that we are familiar with (i.e., that are most relative to what we consider ourselves to be).

We make use of the Genius for everything because we are able to represent everything.

I hope this clarifies it a bit.

"A true genius is not someone that knows about things but is someone or something that has the ability to figure it out"
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just want to say thank you chaol for providing the genius. It is true. It has worked for me finally today, I started around 1-2 weeks ago.

The steps to making a Genius map follow the basic principles of Ecsys Prime.

1-Create symbol: Represent your desired thought, object, or experience physically.
(My symbol was a hand image drawn of a va jay jay, that I did)
2-Find possibility: Create or use space for your symbol or the interactions.
(I drew the va jay jay on a small peice of lined white hand notebook paper and placed it inside my coat jacket pocket)
3-Interact: Allow the symbol or representation to interact with the various elements of your reaity
Placed the folded symbol into my inside coat jacket
5-Structure: For added bonus, develop structure around the interactions.

(open and folded it multiple times in a certain way, and reopened it the same way every 2-3 days)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23462202


It's useful is properly used. I'm glad you made use of it :)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
He, he! I still don't fully understand how we do this, yet it keeps happening more and more in my life. And, one day, it was so much, I changed a Genius plan a little, and it slowed things down. Yet, I still don't know what I'm really doing. 1dunno1

I will say this Jesse, I too have a witness to some of this stuff which makes me realize in some way, my perspective is overlapping to theirs. Sounds like you are experiencing the same. What is your wife's response to all this?
 Quoting: Unit3


Some of us are quite frightened of this power and the ability to do anything.

The ability of the Genius, the subconscious is only as limited as our perceptions.

What could be more frightening to these few than what can be perceived?

Once you've seen it, you cannot unsee it!

To those that are a bit scared by the power of the subconscious or what it's capable of I can say that the only thing to fear is wanting to unsee it.

Being "okay" with whatever is of your Genius is probably the best thing you could do for your total perspective.

Yes, there are some frightening things there. But it is only frightening because you have learned how to avoid it.

There is nothing actually scary in and of your subconscious.

Once you stop resisting you'll find that you are okay with that part of yourself.

You'll feel better, too ;)
 Quoting: Chaol



It was funny because I thought I was ready for new stuff and found out I wasn't quite as ready as I thought!

How does one deal with resistance? And, who is resisting?
 Quoting: Unit3


Because we are entering the next level of Ecsys I will respond a bit differently (with the assumption that some of us are all ready comfortable with the basics).

There is no need to deal with resistance. It is impossible to not resist.

You could say that we are beings resisting a state of nothingness, so we create illusions to seem like we exist.

(Non-existence is so.. boring and is the most-resisted idea there is because it implies no relationship with anything.)

We are doing the resisting, despite our best efforts to create something outside of ourselves and withhold responsibility for our universe ;)

We are even resisting our own eyeballs because we are still saying that this Nothing must be our eyeball. Really, we don't know anything else.

But there are different levels of resistance, I suppose. When we look at an other aspect of our self (an other value of our perspective) and say, "That person is not us. They are different," then we are resisting further. That's beyond resisting nothing. That's resisting even the illusion.

When we resist even the illusion we create yet more illusions.

The more we resist what we are the more our experience may not make sense. Or it may seem that the universe is acting against us or not giving us what we want.

What else can be expected when we try to sever the relationships in our own perspective?
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Now tell me how perspective is illusion? Because I can manipulate it?
 Quoting: Unit3


Moving a bit beyond the limits of English, allow me to alter Ecsys Prime a bit in an illustration.

"We perceive that which takes the least amount of energy to perceive" becomes,

"We perceive that which takes no energy to perceive" (as no-energy is the least amount)

Meaning, we do not actually perceive of anything because we pretend to perceive Nothing.

We create an illusion of two things and the relationship between the two illusions seem like a real something. We perceive the relationships of illusions that do not exist.

In reality we experience only different kinds of nothingness.

Perspective is an illusion because we are perceiving nothing.

(Someone else could say, for simplicity, that we create simultaneous with the perception.)

The perspective was not there before itself.

Perspective is not independent of anything. It is dependent only on illusion. (Two illusions form a relationship that is the perspective.)

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