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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
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12/22/2012 03:50 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A ways back in this thread, there is a discussion regarding oppression. Chaol said something about how "they" enslaved us with the Industrial Revolution and how "they" are now seeking new ways to enslave us.

Well, since our perception is based on the geometry that occurs between pulses of light, with the frequency determining the possibilities, then "they" could enslave us by controlling light pulses. Thus, there are Lily waves, microwaves, ULF, ELF, VLF (ultra-low, extra-low and very low frequencies), the frequencies emanating from TVs and radios and whatever else "they" have come up with.

The flouride in toothpaste is an electrical conductor. It is in our bodies and acts as a receiver of waves of light pulses. Aluminum is also a type of conductor. The chemtrails are full of aluminum, which are reflecting or conducting pulses, or something like that.

Anyway, it is all based on the frequency of light pulses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


"They" is all ways "you".

So we create these stories to make sense of how we are ignoring other values in our perspective.

It's impossible not to ignore other values so there's nothing wrong with this.

Neither is there anything wrong with whatever story we come up with.

It could be said (though I did not quite imply the content of your first paragraph) that different aspects of your perspective try to overpower it by interacting with more things but it's a natural process. We get caught up in the details and specifics but it's irrelevant. The true value is in the relationships (and the geometry thereof).

Usually we only see (and care about) the story that we've created to make sense of the geometry of relationships. This is how we understand and is valid because it assists in our understanding of this geometry.

We need not understand the geometry (it's kind of boring, anyway) but only need to understand the geometry through the drama of the relationships (much more exciting and human, and leads to the same understanding although in a different way).

That's why I have said that you are as likely to "become enlightened" (or whatever it's called these days) watching a television drama or playing a game or stepping in mud as you are meditating or going to church.

It's about the relationships, not the way we make sense of them.
 Quoting: Chaol




I can see I've had this backwards. I thought making sense of the relationships was the point. Hmmmmmmmm!

So we are exploring geometrical relationships? And it doesn't make any difference if we understand the geometry. We need only understand that we are using geometry to make relationships and further, to understand how we do this?

And why is this the important thing? What is the bottom line of it all? I thought it was to see that we have a singular perspective but you said in another recent post that's not even important.

Thanks
Happy Holidays! snowman
Unit3

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12/22/2012 03:51 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Any other form that don't give bans for having different opinions sounds good!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20594205

We could use a PalTalk chat room and lock it. Or start a Facebook page for Ecsys and keep it private.

Edit: The only thing though, is Chaol created this space here. I kinda don't want to leave it.
 Quoting: Unit3


It's fine if you branch out. It's natural.
 Quoting: Chaol


Think of interaction with a new space as a form of the Genius.
 Quoting: CatCarel




I don't want to branch out away from Chaol yet. However, I am in the process of developing a model so that I visit Chaol's world, either as a research project or for surgery, heh!!!!

Edit: Btw, the post you don't remember doing is probably a screwed up quote. It happens when the poster forgets to fix it before posting. I have to fix mine quite often, LOL!

On the other hand, it could also be said that it was in your perspective, hehe!

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/22/2012 03:54 PM
Happy Holidays! snowman
Unit3

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12/22/2012 03:59 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi! I guess I'm probably the newest poster here and as you can see, I'm still catching on. (I'm also hogging the thread and I apologize but I might as well. I want to learn this and interactive works better for me than reading walls of text! I tell myself it's for the good of everybody too! We are getting lots of information, heh!!!!)

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience here. It's interesting. I remember the same thing about creating words and the other poster that tried it, had immediate results too.

I've been trying to decide what I want to create a word for because I really desire new experiences.

Anyway, please do keep us updated on this. I hadn't thought of using it for something like you are.

Also, @Jesse......you go, broh!!!! headbang
 Quoting: Unit3


Hi Unit3!

Hog the thread away, from what I could glimpse, your questions and comments are great, and a wonderful opportunity to read more of Chaol's responses!

I'm still catching up from where I left, and in order to grasp everything, I have to follow the thread linearly, for now only quickly going through the latest posts.

So far, the kitten seems uninterested in getting in... I saw her a second time this afternoon, but only in the garden, in spite of the open door... errr kabuchu. As of now, coming back from horseback riding class, she hasn't even trespassed the garden, just looked at me from a distance!

I am curious about tomorrow.

Now I want to create more words for other experiences, I'll keep you updated. :)
 Quoting: Ambra 30646371



You're sweet! I figure if no one else is going to, I sure will hog it, heh!

I admire you for following the thread linearly. I always promise myself I will do so, but it hasn't happened yet! ;o(
But I forgive myself because when Chaol is around & posting, I'd much rather talk to him.

I am curious about your tomorrow too. It sure sounds like it's working well. I can't wait to hear about it.

TC
Happy Holidays! snowman
Marshwiggle

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12/22/2012 05:51 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
On another note, I recall Chaol saying at the beginning of the thread, to create new words for experiences we intend to perceive.

My neighbors got a white kitten, very cute (and the clone of my white cat Leonardo when he was a baby cat). The kitten of course likes to play and explore, and she has been a pest getting in and stealing the food on all occasions. My main activity has been chasing away the cat for a while now, lol. Basically, I am under siege at all times.

When she gets bigger, my poor Leo may get mistakenly chased instead of her...

Today, as I was exercising with the open door, I thought of Chaol's words, and came up with the word "kabuchu" to express the experience of an open door in complete relaxation. Within the concept of "kabuchu", my cats are free to move around and get in and out. it's not a limit to them, only a border where the unwanted stays out.

Kabuchu represents all entrances, including the gate to the garden, a peaceful territory.

Since I implemented it a few hours ago, I've seen the kitten only once (vs. all the time), and I chased her saying the word out loud to her. The door is open as I am typing this!

I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I am assuming there will be some bleed-through as the new experience adjusts itself.
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


I love to hear examples in people's lives of how we're playing with all this.Thanks, Ambra!

And, the Expanded Perspective Exercise that you're doing, too. I've done quite a bit of that, simply to see where it goes - because Chaol made it sound very tempting!
Ambra
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12/22/2012 06:57 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You're sweet! I figure if no one else is going to, I sure will hog it, heh!

I admire you for following the thread linearly. I always promise myself I will do so, but it hasn't happened yet! ;o(
But I forgive myself because when Chaol is around & posting, I'd much rather talk to him.

I am curious about your tomorrow too. It sure sounds like it's working well. I can't wait to hear about it.

TC
 Quoting: Unit3


I hear you. When Chaol is around and posting, one doesn't want to miss the opportunity.

I always promise myself to reread the entire thread from page 1 and take notes, but find myself always catching up with the new pages! Right now, I'm around page 180...

Will let you know how the kabuchu experience will be tomorrow!
Ambra
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12/22/2012 07:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I love to hear examples in people's lives of how we're playing with all this.Thanks, Ambra!

And, the Expanded Perspective Exercise that you're doing, too. I've done quite a bit of that, simply to see where it goes - because Chaol made it sound very tempting!
 Quoting: Marshwiggle


hf

I did read about you placing a screwdriver in the toothbrush cup!
Did you brush your teeth with it as well? lol!

Were your attempts with the exercise successful? Still catching up, maybe you posted about it already. :)
Chaol

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12/22/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]

You can always forget (render something irrelevant).

What if we've purposely forgotten how we rendered this illusion just so that we can interact with it?

 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


"Nothing" is beyond relevance, so it's safe to presume that it's irrelevant.

So perhaps we forget about this nothing because it's irrelevant.

I'm not sure about that one.
Unit3

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12/22/2012 07:32 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You're sweet! I figure if no one else is going to, I sure will hog it, heh!

I admire you for following the thread linearly. I always promise myself I will do so, but it hasn't happened yet! ;o(
But I forgive myself because when Chaol is around & posting, I'd much rather talk to him.

I am curious about your tomorrow too. It sure sounds like it's working well. I can't wait to hear about it.

TC
 Quoting: Unit3


I hear you. When Chaol is around and posting, one doesn't want to miss the opportunity.

I always promise myself to reread the entire thread from page 1 and take notes, but find myself always catching up with the new pages! Right now, I'm around page 180...

Will let you know how the kabuchu experience will be tomorrow!
 Quoting: Ambra 30667141




OK, looking forward to hearing about the white kitten experiment, heh!

I take notes too. Right now, I'm going back through the thread where I've already read, looking for Chaol's post on the models they use in their world. (He compared it to ours re: going to bed at night!!!)

I break my notes down into subject matter, which makes it linear in the way I like, LOL! You are way better than I am at sticking to it though.

I did just find, back in the thread, where Chaol mentions Tetris in a post. I assume he either has played it or at least likes it because he was going to base an Ec game on it.

I'm always looking for brain games and this might be something I could get into. (The 5D Rubick's cube I posted a couple of days ago is over my head right now.)

So, I did find this online Tetris game which I like because I don't have to download software (seems to always be a problem for me, heh! I'm an artist, not a computer brain.)
All I have to do is figure out the point of it and I"m good.

[link to www.freetetris.org]
Happy Holidays! snowman
Chaol

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12/22/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Yea (sorry) lol
5a

I think "choice" is another one of those funny words. You choose, but not from the infinite possibilities out there. You "choose" from the decision set dictated by the current interaction within the logic of the now. Ya know? That which takes the least energy and all that.

What if the "matrix" had it right? What if you had everything you could possibly want, exactly the way you want it and completely throw any kind of logic out the window? What if you disbelieve the illusion completely? That'd render it irrelevant to you. Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Whatever is possible becomes logical.

It would be like, in existing, we choose 1,000 words randomly and then find a way to make sense of it so that we can interact with it without knowing how meaningless it is.

That is to say, the meaning is in our interaction rather than in the word itself. The 'word' is meaningless, which is why we can find a way to make sense of any randomness.
Chaol

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12/22/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


You are until this explanation becomes irrelevant, then there's no need to interact with that particular illusion.

Then you move on to an other illusion ;)

Saying that we are relationships of the values in our perspective may be difficult to understand because we do not have the words-in-context to describe it.

(And, of course, it is difficult to interact with it if we have not represented it somehow.)
Chaol

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12/22/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


Chaol has said that he prefers to avoid this topic. Apparently it makes him uncomfortable. Im too lazy to scan for quotes... Lol.

But kind-of disbelief is still kind-of belief, so its all good.
hf
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


As we move to slightly more advanced Ecsys there will be a number of things that I will discuss more.

However, this means that more of us may become uncomfortable with the discussion. It goes with the new territory, I suppose.

Disbelief in something is, indeed, belief in it.

If you truly disbelieved you would not think about it or interact with it.

What you believe in you interact with.

So anything you interact with you believe in. Otherwise you would not set up the framework to interact with it. It would simply be irrelevant.
Chaol

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12/22/2012 07:48 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


Chaol has said that he prefers to avoid this topic. Apparently it makes him uncomfortable. Im too lazy to scan for quotes... Lol.

But kind-of disbelief is still kind-of belief, so its all good.
hf
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Interesting. Well, when Chaol gets back, it's going to be great to see what he says about our discussions, that's for sure.

After all, isn't he creating 2 different worlds merging in his perspective? heh!
 Quoting: Unit3


And here we go...

(again, some of us may be uncomfortable with the expanded content of this disussion)

It is impossible to create something. We can only perceive the value "created" when representations (illusions, all of them) interact.

More accurately, we can only (seem to) be that interaction.

When two representations interact you are the 'result'. We call this perspective and that's about right.

But it is more accurate to say that not only is it perspective it is what we are (that illusion that most seems to be).
Unit3

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12/22/2012 07:52 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


You are until this explanation becomes irrelevant, then there's no need to interact with that particular illusion.

Then you move on to an other illusion ;)

Saying that we are relationships of the values in our perspective may be difficult to understand because we do not have the words-in-context to describe it.

(And, of course, it is difficult to interact with it if we have not represented it somehow.)
 Quoting: Chaol




Aha! You are indicating we go through a series of illusions, figuring out what each means until we realize it is meaningless. Then, we move on to another and repeat.

I sort of see how I've done this in my life, yet at the same time, there are things that I have taken away from illusions. For example, I've learned forgiveness. I've learned the mind fills in to explain experiences.

Could it be said I already had these things, it just didn't occur to me until I explored the relationships that provided the illusion so I could see it?
Happy Holidays! snowman
Unit3

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12/22/2012 07:55 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


Chaol has said that he prefers to avoid this topic. Apparently it makes him uncomfortable. Im too lazy to scan for quotes... Lol.

But kind-of disbelief is still kind-of belief, so its all good.
hf
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Interesting. Well, when Chaol gets back, it's going to be great to see what he says about our discussions, that's for sure.

After all, isn't he creating 2 different worlds merging in his perspective? heh!
 Quoting: Unit3


And here we go...

(again, some of us may be uncomfortable with the expanded content of this disussion)

It is impossible to create something. We can only perceive the value "created" when representations (illusions, all of them) interact.

More accurately, we can only (seem to) be that interaction.

When two representations interact you are the 'result'. We call this perspective and that's about right.

But it is more accurate to say that not only is it perspective it is what we are (that illusion that most seems to be).
 Quoting: Chaol




Because we don't realize we exist, until we interact with the representation we have, from utilizing symbols?

Edit: Iow, nothing exists (including me) until it is observed!!!!!!!

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/22/2012 10:17 PM
Happy Holidays! snowman
Chaol

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Egypt
12/22/2012 08:06 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2908369


The pulses are the illusions. (Representations of symbols)

What we call reality 'exists' in the pulses of light.

Catch an object between the pulses of light that bring it to your awareness and it is not there. The illusion and the pulses are the same thing.

(There are many of these pulses, of course. Here I'm simplifying it for ease of explanation.)

The sun is very closely related to physicality because it is our representation of physicality.

Go outside and look at something in sunlight. You are not looking at the object so much as looking at the sun itself.

The symbol of the sun is everywhere throughout. It is also represented in space as the primary member of our solar system (when it needs to) but is also a member of our cellular system and every physically-oriented system that we can imagine.

There is a "sun" in everything.

We have closely approximated this relationship with artificial light and continued the illusion (although the interaction with artificial light is different).

Add a new light source to your world and you have a new (somewhat different) reality.

More on this as we begin to understand it.
Chaol

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12/22/2012 08:07 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Okay, I have questions re: Genius on the fly.

I just discovered a symbol I have on the back patio is gone..probably thrown in the trash. That symbol was supposed to stay on the back patio.

Do I change my Genius plan so the space is now trash? Do I create another symbol (same as before) for the patio and put both spaces in my Genius? Or, since that symbol has been moved from the patio (good interaction, eh?), can I create an entirely new symbol? I could also fish the original symbol out of the trash....if that's where it is.

I guess let intuition be my guide? Any thoughts are welcome. And here you go, my mirror!

Edit: I just found my notes from Marshwiggle about the expanded perspective. I think this could be considered Genius-on-the-fly too.

The premise is that you change elements in the Genius (except the goal.) This seems to stimulate things. So, I've gotten freer to do this. We'll see what happens.

In the meantime, I found the symbol in a plastic bucket that was behind the patio door. My housemate thought it was trash so good interaction. Only problem is, the yard men came today with their blowers, so I grabbed it off the patio and brought in the house. So, I took it out of its space. I put it back on the patio as soon as I realized what I did, but I think that won't work.

Now I'm not sure if the space is ruined or if I need to use a new symbol in that space. Sigh!
 Quoting: Unit3


Don't resist what is experienced.

Your symbol is exactly where it needs to be to make the next logical step with the Genius.
 Quoting: Not-Chaol 2908369


Yes. I think most often we don't understand the logic of the Genius and think that it's not working as we intend.

...and then change it (or stop it) because we don't see how it is working.
Chaol

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12/22/2012 08:09 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2908369


Interesting. Thinking about how the strobe light fits in with this.
 Quoting: Unit3


And the sun
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1543607


Are you talking about the flares?
 Quoting: Unit3


The suns of our bodies are going through the same changes that the sun of our solar system is going through. There is no difference.

(And flares, solar wind, CME's, et c.)

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/22/2012 08:21 PM
Chaol

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12/22/2012 08:10 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
In a dream last night, for the first time ever, I caught myself considering what I was going to play with in my daytime perceptions.

There were a series of pictures the size of postage stamps or thumbnails, each of them detailed with colorful activities layered one on top of the other, so that there was a depth to the picture. I understood that none of them would become fully alive until I chose one to experiment with.

Each stamp evoked an essence. A value.

I woke up just enough inside the dream to listen in on the discussion I was having with myself over one possibility called "joy". I was actually talking myself out of it! How could I question the experiencing of joy?

There were many others too, like an entire scenario involving the value, "duty", or the value "full comprehension", all represented within a picture the size of a postage stamp.

I fell back asleep, so I don't know what I chose. Time will tell, I guess.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


Yes, I miss calling these interactions "play", for that is what they are.

We'll get to that one day :)
Chaol

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12/22/2012 08:13 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It is as if there is some joy to be found in "negative" things like arguing with your spouse or bumping hard into the corner of a piece of furniture. It is as if it is satisfying in some fashion. Otherwise, I suppose, we wouldn't do things like mash our fingers while closing a door or get depressed or whatever other things that seem uncomfortable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


It's all interaction, no matter what we call it.

As humans we tend to categorize these interactions and give them designations like good or bad. I suppose that keeps us forgetful of the 'just interacting' that it is.
Unit3

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12/22/2012 08:13 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
In a dream last night, for the first time ever, I caught myself considering what I was going to play with in my daytime perceptions.

There were a series of pictures the size of postage stamps or thumbnails, each of them detailed with colorful activities layered one on top of the other, so that there was a depth to the picture. I understood that none of them would become fully alive until I chose one to experiment with.

Each stamp evoked an essence. A value.

I woke up just enough inside the dream to listen in on the discussion I was having with myself over one possibility called "joy". I was actually talking myself out of it! How could I question the experiencing of joy?

There were many others too, like an entire scenario involving the value, "duty", or the value "full comprehension", all represented within a picture the size of a postage stamp.

I fell back asleep, so I don't know what I chose. Time will tell, I guess.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


Yes, I miss calling these interactions "play", for that is what they are.

We'll get to that one day :)
 Quoting: Chaol




I am definitely looking forward to that!!!!!

rockon


I guess I am playing and I just didn't know it yet, heh!!!!


tounge
Happy Holidays! snowman
LeKing

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12/23/2012 06:16 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I believe the "new" library is us constructing our own language.
 Quoting: Unit3


But how would you acquire "knowledge" into your new library/language? again I struggle to explain what I'm trying to get across here with words.

When we create our new language or in EC if you made a neuronicon for "a book of this worlds true history" how would you access it?

Or even a neuronicon for "a full length feature visualization with full control to perceive this worlds true history"

A book wouldn't be as fun for comparison.

Inside the Sphinx's library I have seen others reports of books and "movie" things.

Last Edited by LeKing on 12/23/2012 06:22 AM
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:00 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hello everybody!
Another (former) silent reader.

I have two questions for Chaol, but I think other readers of Chaol may answer too.

Firstly, does death mean anything to the people of Chaol's world? (does it have any meaning at all?)
To the 10-15% of the people who said that they use the Genius in his world?
To Chaol?

 Quoting: panoukos


Hi.

Death, to the few who really subscribe to X in my world, is more of a myth. It seems real when you see or know of others 'tune out' but we also know that the experience of it is different from what it appears to be.

We're sad to see people go, of course. And in a way it's the end of that person's life (or relevance in the world) so they are missed.

Also, i read the tale with the genie a few posts above and I wondered:
Between the "limitless supply of wishes that can come true" (which is boring, as claimed) and the "I wish to not have met the genie" (which allows for the illusion of existence to continue), would there be room for the "I wish to never have to ask (anybody or anything) for any wish to come true"?

I think that this "wish" is more compatible to Chaol's teachings since it represents the acknowledgement that there is nothing/nobody out there to ask for anything and therefore leading to the "I live my life (however, but) without wishing" that is without the expectation for something to come true or not coming true.

what do you think? Would that be possible?

thanks
 Quoting: panoukos


Sure, but keep in mind that saying, "I wish to never have to ask (anybody or anything)..." implies that there is someone out there to ask.

There's nothing wrong with considering other aspects of you (or values in your perspective) from whom knowledge, understanding, or other interactions may be gained. We do it all the time when we reflect or ask ourselves or, in a way, listen to our inner dialogue.

Externalizing the desire or want provides us with new perspective. So "wishing" could actually make what we want (or think) more clear.

In a way we are interacting with it more even though we know there really is no one to ask. It helps in the process, I guess. (As do all the things in your perspective.)

Some of you have some evidence of this when utilizing the Genius. It may be difficult to define what it is you actually want.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:01 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
where art thy Chaol?

How can one know if they are ready for the acsension?

thank you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29340653


What ascension is that?
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:03 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]

Would that sound a fair reasoning or have i left any holes behind?
If it is fair, then it begs the question: The only way to reach the singular perspective of no wishes is the one through which you know how to (and) have every wish come true?

Please forgive my confusion :)
 Quoting: panoukos


Why would one want to reach a singular perspective?

Then the experience would be nothing.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
where art thy Chaol?

How can one know if they are ready for the acsension?

thank you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29340653


also, Chaol, is there any significance behind 11:11, also can you tell me some interesting things about Thoth and the emerald tablets?

thanks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29360092


No, not really. They're just numbers.

What would you like to know about the emerald tablets?
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:26 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Jesse, Unit3 thank you for your answers.
You helped me clarify what my question is.
So, there you go!

I asked if it would be possible for somebody from this world to live his/her life by rendering irrelevant any wishing in it. That is, "i dont desire something to experience, or fear something else to experience and therefore i have no reason to wish for something to come true or not to come true."

It is not something that i personally desire for myself, since I don't know why should i wish for such a thing.
I only asked to see if it could have been a 3rd option to the genie tale, or if it is impossible to happen and therefore was not an option to the tale for good reason.

All that because I got the understanding that learning the GENIUS is about having a wish and know how to make it come true, so i guess that maybe we can never cease to wish. Once one has mastered the GENIUS he would then be able to have a wish come true (experience it) after a wish that came true, which will be followed by another wish that will come true until kingdom come.

But on a different note though, i (re) read Unit3's favourite quote (which is one of my favourites too) and here is how i understand her reply.

If your perspective is split between good and bad (which makes you wishing for good or bad), then obviously you cannot have a singular (no good/no bad) perspective of reality. But if this singular perspective does not contain the source of wishing (the good/bad "thing"), then it makes me think that indeed Chaol, as Unit3 claims, through the teaching of GENIUS helps you to understand how you perceive (now, with your dual perspective) by making your wishes come true, but at the end of the road (singular perspective) and somehow inconceivable to us today, you will catch yourself of running out of wishes.

Would that sound a fair reasoning or have i left any holes behind?
If it is fair, then it begs the question: The only way to reach the singular perspective of no wishes is the one through which you know how to (and) have every wish come true?

Please forgive my confusion :)
 Quoting: panoukos

No problem with confusion. We learn by asking and we learn by teaching. I'm glad you're trying to get something straight in your mind. I do it all the time. And wait until we get into learning the language...I'll probably drive you guys nuts, LOL!

Okay, here's what I understand.

The reason we are learning how to use the Genius is so we can see HOW we create our perspectives. Once we see HOW we create.....then we are in a different level of awareness.

Once we are at that level of awareness, we know we are creating illusions, and that's a whole different thing than creating because we want something.

It makes it easier to see HOW you are creating and also that you are creating one single perspective, if you don't have whole lot of "good" and "bad" perceptions.

So there are really 2 things we are working on to get to Chaol's level. We are learning good and bad are not so good and bad. And, we are learning how we create our ONE SINGLE PERSPECTIVE. There is only one perspective.....mine! (or yours).

And really, once you see that good/bad is getting in the way of seeing your one perspective, it sort of takes the juice out of good/bad.

Well, it does if you really want to experience another level of awareness, imo.
 Quoting: Unit3


Some notes:

Perspectives aren't created. It's more of an experience.

The magic of "perspective" is that it is comprised of all other perspectives. Imagine a room full of bottles, each pointed in different direction until all directions are covered. Your bottle is pointed in a particular direction and that is your perspective. You can try to change the direction your bottle is pointed to but the moment you do you jump to an other bottle whose direction is all ready the one you were going to point to.

In this example all perspectives 'exist' all ready.

All of these perspectives seem to exist at once.

Every perspective is connected with every other perspective because there is one perspective (called Nothing). It is impossible to experience "nothing" because it is beyond perspective. It is beyond perspective because it cannot be experienced from or contained within one particular perspective.

When you have one perspective you have nothing to relate to and, thus, nothing.

Really, there is only the illusion of perspective rather than absolute perspective. The only absolute perspective is that which is beyond itself and need not exist.

A perspective comes from the bottles interacting with one-another. (This is an illusion, though.) Take away one perspective and you 'destroy' the balance of them all (though this is not possible). They all depend on one-another because they are all the same illusion.

So in order for your bottle-perspective to seem to be it must be all possible perspectives (or, as it may be said, your perspective must contain all other perspectives).

You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be. An "expanded perspective" would entail knowing/understanding/experiencing going from bottle to bottle (rather than not knowing) and doing it consciously. As this is simultaneous you may experience what seems like multiple perspectives at once. However this is still one bottle-perspective in the same way you are experiencing that now with all of the perspectives of your physical body.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
If "Time" really is an Illusion, how does one go from one place, or another, in a second, without any help from machines and anything technological?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26110962


Time is as much of an illusion as the timepieces that we have invented to keep track of it.

The more it relates to something else the more real it seems.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:30 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Yeah. I don't know enough about time to be able to tell anybody much about it, but technology on the "outside" is actually a mental process that we see as a tangible piece of equipment. It is a symbol emerging from thought. So, using technology on the "outside" is the very same as using it on the "inside".

Somewhere in these threads, Chaol mentions that technology that we use is all alive and as "human" as we are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


Indeed.

And only aliens could produce alien technology ;)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:34 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, I love marijuana.

What is your perception on marihuana?

Thank you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29604578


I don't really have anything to say about it.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
There is only one perspective, but that single perspective fragments into countless other perspectives.
Each fragment is a world unto itself. Each fragment is a unique perspective. But, just as described in ideas of a "holographic universe", each fragment also contains the whole.

Something I didn't comprehend years ago, but I think that now I do, is that new information will alter a fragment. New information will change a perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


If there is only one perspective, fragmented into countless (but finite) perspectives and if each fragment/perspective contains the whole, then where the "new" could/would come from?

Chaol has stated that nothing is created (and therefore nothing dies*), which means that "new" does not exist. "New", doesn't change perspectives


However, please allow me to supplement your thought

As I think of it, or understand it, is that in order to have "a" perspective it requires to have "a" question and "an" answer. If one has no questions (because he knows everything maybe), then there is no perspective (or, you can say "directionless", or has everything in his perspective). The same applies, I assume, if you have unanswerable questions or answers that you dont know the question. Or else we can say, it is not in your perspective, it doesn't exist, because you cannot relate a question to an answer. "This", does not exist because either you dont know what "this" is, or because you haven't asked what "this" is. If you have, then "this" exists, in your perspective.

As we all know, the "meaning in ("my") life" is situated where "my" questions point it to be. By changing questions -that "I" ask in "my" life- "I" change the "meaning in my life" (or what I define meaning in my life) and thus perspective.

In that context, I understand the "expanded perspective" as the process by which you somehow keep on asking questions after answers, until you decide to arrive to conclusions, where is the place one rests because he got bored of thinking, as they say and wants to live :)

With the same token, methinks, if i change questions, I change my reality. So, the questions I ask determine the "size" of my reality or how expanded my big picture/reality is.

The way you form these questions is through letters/words in a logical manner (grammar/syntax), creating something like a string of symbols, which makes it important consequently, to know what words/symbols to use for the purpose.
Let's not forget the truism that even the deepest secret in the universe will be told in a language that we understand and with words that we already know and exist.

The above of course refer to what I understand (bring into my perspective :)), or misunderstand, when i read Chaol writing about "the perspective...". I hope it helped, if i have not misunderstood Chaol and not been boring.


*If immortal is something that never dies, then the only immortal is the one that has never been born. So, if nothing has been born (created), then everything is immortal. This is how Chaol has suggested us to think of him, afew pages back if I remember.
 Quoting: panoukos


Perspective is afar from questions and answers.

You can be quite knowledgeable and still not know what your perspective is comprised of.

It's more about the geometry of relationships than about knowing things or understanding the meaning of your life, answering questions, and making decisions.

It is safe to assume that 99.9999% of the time we have no idea what our perspective is. There's so much to 'calculate' to understand what it is made of, so to speak.

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