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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Chaol

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12/23/2012 12:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just checking in to say hi to everyone!

I've been offline for a long while. It's been very dreamlike lately... having to perceive the illness, agony and final departure of a friend's father, offering help to ease the situation, and at the same time learning to ride horses in a nearby ranch.

I've missed being on this thread and you Chaol, though I've often seen the white dot in the corner of my eye (that you mentioned a while back, as I recall...).

My first Genius symbol keeps working, even if it fell apart and sits quietly in my bag now.

Lots of pages to catch up on, I guess... It feels great to be back, and the dream goes on :)
 Quoting: Ambra 30351928


Take care, then :)
Unit3

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12/23/2012 12:48 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
In my dream last night I knew exactly how to assign value to things to make it useful to my experience. When I woke up I could not remember how I did it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460969


Try writing it down next time (in the dream) ;)
 Quoting: Chaol




Do you have any suggestions as to how to be more aware in dreams? We call it lucid dreaming and there are all kinds of software and devices to help us achieve it.


Edit: Ha! Just posted this question and look what I found:

With the 8-Coil Shakti, you can activate your brain, one part at a time. If you like the altered state a particular session brings up, you can repeat it (with specific schedules) often enough that your brain 'learns' to access the effects on it's own. If you don't like the effects of a particular session, don't repeat it.

[link to altered-states.net]

Last Edited by U3 on 12/23/2012 12:53 PM
Chaol

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12/23/2012 12:57 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
With "the Genius" what techniques should one use to properly assign the meaning to the symbol? By what steps do we come to focus the logic and possibility space effectively enough to come to experience that which the symbol represents. It seems to me that my genius models have been entirely effective yet my ability to determine exactly what it is I'd like to experience via the genius is somehow off.

I used a genius symbol a while back to "expand my awareness". While considering the symbol I had considered "expand my awareness" to mean something far different from what I intended. My experience with the "expansion of awareness" seems to be of limited scope.

What is the right way to wish to the genie?

Is it by not wishing and instead intending with focus?

Is "the genius" a tool customized to focus our intent on a specific experience? If so, how is it that we come to obtain proper focus? Is that the purpose of ecsys? The words and symbols we've been using have infected us and although they work within the framework of the environment that supposedly generated them, they also limit us to it. By convincing ourselves that all that we perceive is represented by a rule set with the opportunity to explore the rules, we provide us an alternate way to define our frame of reference and in turn we experience an alternate frame of reference.

[snips]
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


The Genius is a tool of perspective, not so much a specific experience.

If your intention is to "expand my awareness" then discover what it means to you. What might it be like in your perspective if your awareness is expanded?
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:10 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

@ Jesse [MM] and Marshwiggle
hf

I understand where you're coming from. What I am looking to grasp is how is it that I come to properly define my initial intent for the symbol. Most of the time, it seems what we want and what we intend are out of synch. It's been (for me) that when considering my symbol for a genius, I find myself not really being clearly aware of what I want. As I see it, what I intend on experiencing is so vague because I am not really provided a frame of reference for what I intend. I've come to the conclusion that representing what I'd imagined was a desired experience comes tainted by my lack of focus.

I suppose (you're right) it's the whole "what's next is what takes the least amount of energy to come next" thing. The symbol (and associated experience) would likely evolve further as my "true" intent becomes more logical.
 Quoting: Ambra 30351928




Jesse, I don't know if this helps, but I notice you said the following:

"I am not really provided a frame of reference for what I intend."

You used the word provided. Are you expecting the frame of reference to come from somewhere besides yourself? I am having a hard time seeing how you don't feel you know your true intent. To me, I set my true intent. I am not having any trouble with that part. The only part I have trouble with is understanding how I already do this naturally.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Yes, I do genuinely have the "feeling" that I am "provided" an experience from somewhere beyond my ability to perceive. I know (intelectually) that it is, as you point out, already within my perspective.

My intent is ambiguous, because I don't (yet) understand the framework to clearly define it. I can use the genius easily (so far) for things that are already relative (also easy to define). Now, the ones that I had perceived as less relative have been more varied and vague (like kinda happening but not quite).

Chaol reminded me to focus on the overall structure of relationships surrounding the desired experience. I suppose I'd forgotten to look at it that way.

rockon
 Quoting: Unit3


For the reallly enterprising mind, imagine this...

Your Genius enters a room full of random letters, words, and phrases and makes sense of them in the order that they're in.

Your waking mind will not make sense of them and just consider them random.

In some world, some possibility, some value of perspective, they make complete and perfect sense.

You can imagine yourself in and of a perspective that is very foreign to your current one. Nevermind how you will get there. Your Genius will figure it out because it can make sense of anything.

It creates the logic. (That is to say, it can illustrate anything logically.)

i.e., it can bring you through a narrative that will make sense to you, one relative step to an other (which is the nature of logic).

So if something that you desire does not make sense to you (meaning, you don't know how to define it) know that it is all ready defined and all ready makes sense to your Genius.

That's the nature of the Genius.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/23/2012 03:05 PM
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Greetings.
 Quoting: Chaol


Greetings.

But it would be much easier to create the library anew. This wouldn't be the same thing, of course.
 Quoting: Chaol

Would it be worth creating a new library in ones mind, or visiting the library off to the right inside the Sphinx Hall?
 Quoting: LeKing

Is there a difference?

The library is a representation of what you'd call an internal process. There are no actual books. But it seems like there are.

You're reading yourself, so to speak.

What greater knowledge or history is there but that within your own self? Therein is everything.
Also how would you acquire "knowledge" into your new library? I struggle to explain what I'm trying to get across here with words, but hopefully you understand, if not I can expand.

I struggle to connect to the Sphinx Library, if creating a new would be easier, that would greatly benefit my self and others I'm sure.
Whenever someone asks a question I quickly refer to some books in my library and type as fast as I can.

I did't write it. Someone else did.
 Quoting: Chaol


Is your library the same one you instructed to visit below, or do you use a personal library?
[snips]
 Quoting: LeKing

There I was paraphrasing a president.

And kidding about going to a library and typing as fast as I can :)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


The most ancient of secrets! :)
 Quoting: Chaol


Oh, you tease.

It seems that without some mystery to ponder we may be like a ship too close to a dark foggy shore lacking a lighthouse. If I squint hard enough maybe Ill see it before the crash.
hf
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


It's your ancient secret ("deep, dark", as it would be said).

It's one of those things that we don't want to think about. As it implies that we would not exist. Indeed, it is the thing we don't want to consider. Only in an abstract way, perhaps.

It's something I've covered at length so the basics are no secret for me. Only the practical applications.

If you cannot perceive of something directly then what are you actually perceiving?
 Quoting: Chaol


You'd be perceiving an inferential experience?

I think that that inference is made by our intent and is subject to the logic in the system by which we perceive. We are basically choosing what we experience at all times. It's just that on the most basic level we (as we currently can perceive our sense of self) do not exist. Am I off?
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


No intent is needed.

If we experience what is most relative (or seem to) then what choice is there?

You'd be choosing something that not only all ready exists but does not really exist.

This is a longer discussion, as it gets into questions like "what about decisions?" and such.

If you're up for it, let me know.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:24 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You mean when we dream at night, we are in your world?

The rest is very interesting...I'm thinking about it.
 Quoting: Unit3


You are all ways dreaming. But for much of the day the experience is [drum roll...] not relevant to you.

You can say that sometimes when you dream you are in my world.

If you've dreamt of an other Earth that is unlike anything you've seen on this one there's a good chance that you're connecting with a part of my world that is like yourself.

It is now and here.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:26 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Now that we've briefly discussed use of the Genius how about we talk about ways that we use it in our everyday lives, without realizing it?

Take what you know about how to make a Genius model and apply it to the world that is all ready around you.

This is a tricky one but it is the step that leads up to more advanced uses of Ecsys.

I'll start with a hint:

Everything of your perception is a symbol
 Quoting: Chaol


I think this is a great exercise. I've been trying to figure it out.

Here's what I'll say in answer to your quesiton:

I give meaning to everything I perceive.
 Quoting: Unit3


As you might be inclined to say, where does this meaning come from?
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Take a look around you.

What symbols do you see?

What logic do those symbols follow?

How are you interacting with those symbols, and how do they interact with your environment?

What space do those symbols rest in?

You are using the Genius at every moment.

You do it to perceive.. and 'get to the next perspective'.

How are you using those symbols to interact with something far more complicated?

Something that, in your current perspective, is not there so much?

If you are, for example, using a mouse how is your mouse a representation interacting with a more complex perspective?

These are things to consider. From it, we can learn how we use the Genius for all things.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Now that we've briefly discussed use of the Genius how about we talk about ways that we use it in our everyday lives, without realizing it?

Take what you know about how to make a Genius model and apply it to the world that is all ready around you.

This is a tricky one but it is the step that leads up to more advanced uses of Ecsys.

I'll start with a hint:

Everything of your perception is a symbol
 Quoting: Chaol


Entering the dreamworld
Symbol - Queen size bed
Space - Bedroom
Interaction - Trying to gain an inch of mattress and pillow, while cats are faster than me as they jump over
Logic - Turning to left side of body, closing eyes and following colored shapes, until waking consciousness fades away
 Quoting: Ambra 30479979


Yes. And your interacts have an effect on your dreamworld.

Anything you interact with has an effect on what you'd call your past/present/future perspective.

What does your bed represent?
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:36 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi.

Did you create the wax owl candle?
 Quoting: Chaol


No. I bought it a couple of years ago at a fair market.
My understanding was that we should use any object/symbol already around us (toothbrush, coin, etc.). A different exercise than creating a Genius symbol. Is this correct?
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


It would be far more effective if it was something unique that you created, with little-to-no inherent meaning.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

As part of the more advanced uses of Ecsys and neuronics we will learn to make use of the understanding that every experience is one of unique symbols.

The doorknob you touched yesterday is entirely unique from the one today. (One that has of course interacted with other aspects of our perspective that would be called "past" and, thus, seems like the same from yesterday.)

You use the Genius at every moment.

It is what 'creates' the illusion of physically-oriented existence.
 Quoting: Chaol


I can see this already. What overwhelms is the dialogue that must go along with each of these experiences. I almost think I almost prefer not knowing how I use symbols as I do now.

It seems your life would be non-stop chattering of Ec so as to perceive: a body, feeling the chair you are sitting on while at the computer, listening to the heater and tv from the other room, which you are also 'creating' along with sunlight shining through the window and the smell of lunch wafting by. And at the same time remembering what all you want to experience. Whew!!!

Sounds very busy to me. tounge
 Quoting: Chaol


It's actually very quiet.

You can sit quietly in your chair now even though there's trillions of processes going on inside of your body.

You can represent many of those trillions by simply breathing.

Everything can be represented.

And there's no need to remember any of it.

(At every moment, it could be said, the entire universe is created anew. And it all makes sense again.)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I set my electronics free and now they have a mind of their own. They won't post if they don't want to! My Kindle is still cooperating so far.
 Quoting: 6853315 1298031

I can see there is a definite space thing going on, LOL! Would love to hear more about it but it might be difficult for you right now. I am looking forward to the day when I can interface with electronics organically. Lucky you!

Edit: Btw, did you use a GENIUS to set them free? Also, I think you could use a GENIUS to get them to co-operate with you a little better.
 Quoting: Unit3


Some may have success is modeling an electronic component in their mind (i.e., in a more relative perspective) and working with it there.

In this way you could, for example, turn on a device from 20 feet away or (as I tend to do) fix something that is broken.

If someone was talking with herself during this process the exchange could go something like this way:

"My laptop is broken. I will make a Genius model of the laptop in my mind because the laptop exists in my perspective. Although it is not as relative as is my hand it is entirely in my perspective and it can be fixed if I change ("fix") my perspective of it. So now I imagine a black box with pictures and other information on it, which will serve as my symbol of it. I need not know how a laptop works but only how perspective works because it exists entirely in my perspective. I imagine it in the palm of my hand. My fingers interact with the pictures and manipulate the information. But wait.. it's breaking. My fingers have much more difficulty in moving the pictures around. I will put my mental laptop down on the floor and crack my fingers and exercise them. I will also blow into the laptop to clear away any defects within the perception. Now I will pick up the laptop and close it and open it again. I will now power on the other aspect of my mental laptop (the more physical laptop that was broken). It works, so now I can use it."
 Quoting: Chaol


So you don't really need remote control, do you? Heh! afro

I imagine the inner dialogue is what we are heading to if we are to learn how you function. To me, your results are very similar to what we do here through meditation.

The main difference I see is that 'your' way is more aware of how things work resulting in a completely different experience compared to living life in the astral body.
 Quoting: Unit3


Sure. I like to push the buttons and sometimes enjoy the frustration of pushing the wrong ones. It's all interaction. And sometimes when something breaks I leave it broken. Unless, of course, fixing it suits a particular intention.

We need not be aware of how anything works. Though we can be aware of the fundamentals of how the illusion works.
Anonymous Coward
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12/23/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hello Chaol, thanks again for all your explanations. You are very kind and patient with us. Also thanks to all who contribute to the discussions because without your interactions, there will be nothing for Chaol to respond to.

I have had a lot of success like I said with the genius and would like to get even braver with my future models. My understanding now is that my perspective comprises of symbols that I interact with and this is existence. Even the aspects of it that are not pleasurable are also interactions to get I can go through to get to my "wanted" destination so to speak. I would like to explore how the geometry of relationships can be explored further (lol sorry for the repetition) to gain more understanding of myself and my perspective. Does this mean welcoming and accepting even things I consider "hazardous" or "not so good" as well as "amazing" and "wonderful" things? I feel like although I have changed a lot in the past month of my immediate surroundings, I should be changing more of how I do and view things.

I already see everyone here (Chaol, AC's and named accounts) as values in my perspective and I'm amazed at how "rich" my perspective really is.

Thanks Unit and others for keeping the topic flowing with your questions. It's very helpful and appreciated.

I absolutely cannot wait for 2013 and all the new relationships it brings!
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

You'll often be surprised about how ingenious the path to your desired perspective may be.

You can also make use of multiple representations simultaneously.

The illusion and the real thing are both representations of the same thing. You just call one illusion real because it's a sibling and the other one not-Real because it's a cousin.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol 20177375


Your first statement brings a thought to me. If we are taking symbols to arrange patterns (in our mind) and then letting the Genius do the work, what is the Genius exactly?

Here's what you say on the website:

"Using the Genius you can create a map from one perception to the next. If you can imagine it then you can show yourself how to get there from where you are. The best part about the Genius maps is that we're working with locations in your mind, not physical locations. The steps above should provide the necessary intent to your "subconscious" to make that shift happen"

What do you call the subconscious?

And I can see that I make use of multiple representations simultaneously because look at all that's going on at any time. What I wonder about is how you get any rest knowing how you do this? It seems you would be always conscious of what you are thinking. It doesn't sound restful to me at this point in my understanding.
 Quoting: Chaol


My personal definition is different than the one I use in these discussions.

When I refer to subconscious I am referring to the non-waking mind that sits closer with the wheel of perception. However, my definition would be something like, "...those values in our perspective that are most related to us without being what we consider ourselves to be."
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Sun would sure be easy to use for space in a Genius. (Well, as long as you didn't live in a region where it's dark for 6 mos.!) Unless you know how to use it in regards to your body??????
 Quoting: Unit3


If you know how to get your symbol to rest in it, sure :)
panoukos

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12/23/2012 01:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Death, to the few who really subscribe to X in my world, is more of a myth
 Quoting: Chaol

what this myth is about? and what purpose does it serve?


Externalizing the desire or want provides us with new perspective. So "wishing" could actually make what we want (or think) more clear.
 Quoting: Chaol

Sure, but as you said:
It may be difficult to define what it is you actually want.
So, if defining a wish precedes the perspective, and if somebody who doesn't (know how to) wish, stays on his "default" perspective, then it makes me wonder, not only how and by whom the First wish was produced, but also what is the actual wish (which has produced my current perspective) that I am seeking to experience?
It couldn't be from "me" (because if I don't know how now, i couldn't know "back then")
Would that be right?


Why would one want to reach a singular perspective?

Then the experience would be nothing.
 Quoting: Chaol

I don't know. My post was simply following you on this:
"It's all your perception. If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."
Not that my following on you was not false (you didn't reply to it anyway)

You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be. An "expanded perspective" would entail knowing/understanding/experiencing going from bottle to bottle (rather than not knowing) and doing it consciously. As this is simultaneous you may experience what seems like multiple perspectives at once. However this is still one bottle-perspective in the same way you are experiencing that now with all of the perspectives of your physical body.
 Quoting: Chaol

Do you identify "singular perspective", "expanded perspective", "experiencing what seems like multiple perspectives at once" with "the experience would be nothing"? Or have I misread you here? Please clarify

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my posts.
know thy word
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:55 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I appreciate your patience in answering all my questions. As you can see, I want to leave no stone un-turned. I still don't quite understand how you explain how you allow some things to just happen in your life, since you are conscious of how you explore possibilities.

Are you in some way exploring the possibility of "things just happen"?
 Quoting: Unit3


Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

We have all of the 'answers' all ready but we choose to ignore them.

If we did not pretend that we did not know we would not be able to interact with them.

Finding out and experiencing the same dramas over and over, ad infinitum, makes us feel like we are getting closer and closer to that which is beyond experience.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 01:58 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
What is outside my perspective is now my favorite thought! hf

So, all these people I think I know who are 'beyond the veil' and united with their 'higher self' is my own perspective!!!!!!!!! 1rof1

So, now I am looking at how I ended up with this in my perspective. I've always looked for Truth.

So, I ended up with a boyfriend (met him through a girlfriend who highly recommended him) who had a book sitting on his table that I picked up and read.

It had 'new' ideas (to me) which opened the door to exploring this new area of 'Truth' and finding more and more authors and people experiencing it. I even experimented and experienced some of the same things myself. However, I did see that whatever beliefs I held at the time, influenced my understanding of what happened.

So...I still searched for Truth.

I eventually ended up in GLP and eventually saw this thread on the front page of the forum, for about the 1,000th time, heh! I finally decided to see what it's about.

Now, I'm here still searching for Truth!!!! lmao

(I do feel I"m much closer now, heh!)

What was it you said the other day Chaol....everything stays the same, everything changes?
 Quoting: Unit3


There's no end to the search ;)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Funny. I don't remember posting that, but I know I've thought about it.

Chaol, can you explain the meaning behind 'chemtrails' used to 'cover' the sun? What is the purpose of limiting interaction with its perceived energy?
 Quoting: CatCarel


This is more a Western-world thing. There are plenty of places left with blue skies, though it's interesting how many of us don't notice the change.

It's an illustration of the resistance to physical change, with depopulation of weaker (generally older) persons thrown in.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:07 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A ways back in this thread, there is a discussion regarding oppression. Chaol said something about how "they" enslaved us with the Industrial Revolution and how "they" are now seeking new ways to enslave us.

Well, since our perception is based on the geometry that occurs between pulses of light, with the frequency determining the possibilities, then "they" could enslave us by controlling light pulses. Thus, there are Lily waves, microwaves, ULF, ELF, VLF (ultra-low, extra-low and very low frequencies), the frequencies emanating from TVs and radios and whatever else "they" have come up with.

The flouride in toothpaste is an electrical conductor. It is in our bodies and acts as a receiver of waves of light pulses. Aluminum is also a type of conductor. The chemtrails are full of aluminum, which are reflecting or conducting pulses, or something like that.

Anyway, it is all based on the frequency of light pulses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


"They" is all ways "you".

So we create these stories to make sense of how we are ignoring other values in our perspective.

It's impossible not to ignore other values so there's nothing wrong with this.

Neither is there anything wrong with whatever story we come up with.

It could be said (though I did not quite imply the content of your first paragraph) that different aspects of your perspective try to overpower it by interacting with more things but it's a natural process. We get caught up in the details and specifics but it's irrelevant. The true value is in the relationships (and the geometry thereof).

Usually we only see (and care about) the story that we've created to make sense of the geometry of relationships. This is how we understand and is valid because it assists in our understanding of this geometry.

We need not understand the geometry (it's kind of boring, anyway) but only need to understand the geometry through the drama of the relationships (much more exciting and human, and leads to the same understanding although in a different way).

That's why I have said that you are as likely to "become enlightened" (or whatever it's called these days) watching a television drama or playing a game or stepping in mud as you are meditating or going to church.

It's about the relationships, not the way we make sense of them.
 Quoting: Chaol




I can see I've had this backwards. I thought making sense of the relationships was the point. Hmmmmmmmm!

So we are exploring geometrical relationships? And it doesn't make any difference if we understand the geometry. We need only understand that we are using geometry to make relationships and further, to understand how we do this?

And why is this the important thing? What is the bottom line of it all? I thought it was to see that we have a singular perspective but you said in another recent post that's not even important.

Thanks
 Quoting: Unit3


The purpose is to interact. It does not matter with whom or what you are interacting.

There's no need to make sense of the relationships, or explore anything, or understand the geometry or anything else.

Actually, we are doing our best to get away from a singular perspective. This goes against our constitution, it could be said.

(We want to feel like we exist, and a singular perspective would mean that we don't.)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:19 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You're sweet! I figure if no one else is going to, I sure will hog it, heh!

I admire you for following the thread linearly. I always promise myself I will do so, but it hasn't happened yet! ;o(
But I forgive myself because when Chaol is around & posting, I'd much rather talk to him.

I am curious about your tomorrow too. It sure sounds like it's working well. I can't wait to hear about it.

TC
 Quoting: Unit3


I hear you. When Chaol is around and posting, one doesn't want to miss the opportunity.

I always promise myself to reread the entire thread from page 1 and take notes, but find myself always catching up with the new pages! Right now, I'm around page 180...

Will let you know how the kabuchu experience will be tomorrow!
 Quoting: Ambra 30667141




OK, looking forward to hearing about the white kitten experiment, heh!

I take notes too. Right now, I'm going back through the thread where I've already read, looking for Chaol's post on the models they use in their world. (He compared it to ours re: going to bed at night!!!)

I break my notes down into subject matter, which makes it linear in the way I like, LOL! You are way better than I am at sticking to it though.

I did just find, back in the thread, where Chaol mentions Tetris in a post. I assume he either has played it or at least likes it because he was going to base an Ec game on it.

I'm always looking for brain games and this might be something I could get into. (The 5D Rubick's cube I posted a couple of days ago is over my head right now.)

So, I did find this online Tetris game which I like because I don't have to download software (seems to always be a problem for me, heh! I'm an artist, not a computer brain.)
All I have to do is figure out the point of it and I"m good.

[link to www.freetetris.org]
 Quoting: Unit3


The models we use are quite complicated. There's no point in going into them now.

Tetris is fun. The music makes it even more fun. Here's the Ec version: [link to ecsys.org] or [link to ecsys.org]
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As we move to slightly more advanced Ecsys there will be a number of things that I will discuss more.

However, this means that more of us may become uncomfortable with the discussion. It goes with the new territory, I suppose.

Disbelief in something is, indeed, belief in it.

If you truly disbelieved you would not think about it or interact with it.

What you believe in you interact with.

So anything you interact with you believe in. Otherwise you would not set up the framework to interact with it. It would simply be irrelevant.
 Quoting: Chaol


I should also add, what you disbelieve you also interact with.

(There is no disbelief. Only belief or irrelevance.)
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
It's okay, Jesse...I'm so used to being freaked out these days, it's my new normal, heh!!!

But I do kind of disbelieve in the illusion. I've poked so many holes in it and tested it and experimented until I know I have something to do with it. Iow, what meets the eyes, senses, etc: comes from me.

Jesse said: "Even your perception of who and what you are is a symbol interacting within your perspective."

The bold sentence above bugs the hell outta me! Who am I? I always thought spirit. I even sometimes feel I can tell the difference in "my" spirit and the rest of "me." Then Chaol comes along and I'm trying to throw all of it out the window....and be a tabula rasa.
 Quoting: Unit3


You are until this explanation becomes irrelevant, then there's no need to interact with that particular illusion.

Then you move on to an other illusion ;)

Saying that we are relationships of the values in our perspective may be difficult to understand because we do not have the words-in-context to describe it.

(And, of course, it is difficult to interact with it if we have not represented it somehow.)
 Quoting: Chaol


Aha! You are indicating we go through a series of illusions, figuring out what each means until we realize it is meaningless. Then, we move on to another and repeat.

I sort of see how I've done this in my life, yet at the same time, there are things that I have taken away from illusions. For example, I've learned forgiveness. I've learned the mind fills in to explain experiences.

Could it be said I already had these things, it just didn't occur to me until I explored the relationships that provided the illusion so I could see it?
 Quoting: Unit3


You all ready have everything. So, yes.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:24 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Chaol has said that he prefers to avoid this topic. Apparently it makes him uncomfortable. Im too lazy to scan for quotes... Lol.

But kind-of disbelief is still kind-of belief, so its all good.
hf
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Interesting. Well, when Chaol gets back, it's going to be great to see what he says about our discussions, that's for sure.

After all, isn't he creating 2 different worlds merging in his perspective? heh!
 Quoting: Unit3


And here we go...

(again, some of us may be uncomfortable with the expanded content of this disussion)

It is impossible to create something. We can only perceive the value "created" when representations (illusions, all of them) interact.

More accurately, we can only (seem to) be that interaction.

When two representations interact you are the 'result'. We call this perspective and that's about right.

But it is more accurate to say that not only is it perspective it is what we are (that illusion that most seems to be).
 Quoting: Chaol


Because we don't realize we exist, until we interact with the representation we have, from utilizing symbols?

Edit: Iow, nothing exists (including me) until it is observed!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Unit3


I would add that nothing needs to exist.

Or, nothing exists.

Double entendres, of course.

As one cannot observe of something directly the existence is an illusion.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:25 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I believe the "new" library is us constructing our own language.
 Quoting: Unit3


But how would you acquire "knowledge" into your new library/language? again I struggle to explain what I'm trying to get across here with words.

When we create our new language or in EC if you made a neuronicon for "a book of this worlds true history" how would you access it?

Or even a neuronicon for "a full length feature visualization with full control to perceive this worlds true history"

A book wouldn't be as fun for comparison.

Inside the Sphinx's library I have seen others reports of books and "movie" things.
 Quoting: LeKing


You access it by perceiving it.

Each time it is created anew.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi Chaol and welcome back!

Chaol said:
(Non-existence is so.. boring and is the most-resisted idea there is because it implies no relationship with anything.)

We are looking for a way to relate to something. It does not matter how

If we are incapable of not forming relations with anything because we are perspective, how are we capable to fear it (resist it)? How do we know it is boring, since nothing has ever been (because it can't, by default) in that state?

Is it boredom that prevents us from being there or impossibility?

Why do we need this most resisted idea to perform that which we are incapable of not performing it, anyway?

 Quoting: panoukos


Hi. Thanks =D

We are all ready in the state of nothingness (if it could be called a state).

It is resisted because here we are, apparently something when we are not actually.

We are, in effect, bored of nothing. We need to feel like we exist. To have meaning even if arbitrary and entirely made up.

Going around in circles ("...to perform that which we are incapable of not performing...") is at least the appearance of something and keeps us busy forever.

Also, in a different note, would you say that I live in a "with my Genius" state, when I think and act on the first thing that comes to my mind at all times (not necessarily coinciding with "reflex")?

Edit: I wrote the above before I read your answers to my previous posts.
 Quoting: panoukos


You are your Genius, though I suppose you could say that it is with you since in experience it is relative to you.

When you think and act on the first thing that comes to your mind that is still your mind.

Intuition is interpreting geometries and is something our physical senses do and is closely related to our Genius, though I would not say that our interpretations are more accurate than not.

To connect more with your Genius, consider the values that are generally ignored in your perspective and interact with them. The Genius loves being tickled!
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:33 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Hi.

Death, to the few who really subscribe to X in my world, is more of a myth. It seems real when you see or know of others 'tune out' but we also know that the experience of it is different from what it appears to be.

We're sad to see people go, of course. And in a way it's the end of that person's life (or relevance in the world) so they are missed.
 Quoting: Chaol


Do you have any immortals there?

We reportedly have some here and I know of a couple of the ways reported of how they attained it.

Also, there is a lot of talk here that immortality is just about possible now, with all the innovations in medicine.

Almost every body part can be replaced in some way and with the additional use of robotics, it's looking like we could establish it as the norm.
 Quoting: Chaol


In the sense of the physical body living forever? Not that I know of.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that, though.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:34 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Btw, does anyone know what Chaol meant by 'GLP is not on the internet'?

Will add a link to the post; forget which thread it was.
 Quoting: CatCarel


Anyone remember Chaol saying we'd probably not be using the internet by last december?
 Quoting: Marshwiggle


Yes. And in late October of that year, SOPA was introduced.

This website was one of many on 'the list' to be taken offline.

Some changes have been made since then and now your internet is safe and sound.
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you. ;o)
 Quoting: Unit3


Nothing you can't do yourself through the power of dream influence.
Chaol

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12/23/2012 02:36 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
How is there perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


Can you define consciousness?
 Quoting: Chaol


I can now. It's the result of relationships between symbols.
 Quoting: Unit3


Then perspective is the same as consciousness.

Consciousness is everywhere perspective is.

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