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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Ambra
User ID: 30733622
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12/23/2012 07:27 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Entering the dreamworld
Symbol - Queen size bed
Space - Bedroom
Interaction - Trying to gain an inch of mattress and pillow, while cats are faster than me as they jump over
Logic - Turning to left side of body, closing eyes and following colored shapes, until waking consciousness fades away
 Quoting: Ambra 30479979


Yes. And your interacts have an effect on your dreamworld.

Anything you interact with has an effect on what you'd call your past/present/future perspective.

What does your bed represent?
 Quoting: Chaol


Interesting that such a question had me pondering a bit.

The very first answer to that was "rest". But then I realized it's not it. I feel more rested when I lay on the couch, either with the laptop, or watching some TV.

I usually delay going to bed, until the very last minute. So I'd rather say "exhaustion", or deep sleep and dreams.

Thinking further, due to lack of companionship, my current bed/symbol has seen zero sexual activity for a perceived long time, so it's pretty much a cold representation. :( But that's about to change with the use of the Genius! :)

Short of buying an eerie fake boyfriend doll (lol!), I'll start by placing a representation of companionship on it.

I thought of dusting off my old teddy bear, which has been sitting in a dark closet for years. Poor thing. It was my trusted companion and I shared all my thoughts with it, as a child.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424



I have an idea.....and it will kill a lot of birds with one Genius (a new saying, heh)

How about you and I work on a Genius together for a true love from Chaol's world? We would then also get our own teacher, :o)!!!!

Not that I'm griping about Chaol, but I have to live this stuff to really learn it. He is doing great but I want more, heh!!!!

What do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


That sounds great!

We just have to make sure our Geniuses will take us to two representatives from Chaol's world, or else we'll be cat fighting over him! he he

It's interesting that you mention that, because I was pondering on the qualities of my new soon to be perceived companion, and thought something quite similar! :)
Unit3

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12/23/2012 09:09 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Yes. And your interacts have an effect on your dreamworld.

Anything you interact with has an effect on what you'd call your past/present/future perspective.

What does your bed represent?
 Quoting: Chaol


Interesting that such a question had me pondering a bit.

The very first answer to that was "rest". But then I realized it's not it. I feel more rested when I lay on the couch, either with the laptop, or watching some TV.

I usually delay going to bed, until the very last minute. So I'd rather say "exhaustion", or deep sleep and dreams.

Thinking further, due to lack of companionship, my current bed/symbol has seen zero sexual activity for a perceived long time, so it's pretty much a cold representation. :( But that's about to change with the use of the Genius! :)

Short of buying an eerie fake boyfriend doll (lol!), I'll start by placing a representation of companionship on it.

I thought of dusting off my old teddy bear, which has been sitting in a dark closet for years. Poor thing. It was my trusted companion and I shared all my thoughts with it, as a child.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424



I have an idea.....and it will kill a lot of birds with one Genius (a new saying, heh)

How about you and I work on a Genius together for a true love from Chaol's world? We would then also get our own teacher, :o)!!!!

Not that I'm griping about Chaol, but I have to live this stuff to really learn it. He is doing great but I want more, heh!!!!

What do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


That sounds great!

We just have to make sure our Geniuses will take us to two representatives from Chaol's world, or else we'll be cat fighting over him! he he

It's interesting that you mention that, because I was pondering on the qualities of my new soon to be perceived companion, and thought something quite similar! :)
 Quoting: Ambra 30733622



If you do a genius with your symbols and space and I do mine with my symbols and space, I think we would each have a guy, heh!

Feel free to PM me with your email address (or post it here if you feel comfortable doing that). We can brainstorm privately and then present our genius plans to chaol.
Unit3

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12/23/2012 09:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I don't mean to take over this thread, but I'm pretty sure -- and Chaol should correct me if I am wrong -- that you can map for yourself a gentle awakening. Instead of the "crash" that is being predicted for some, simply map waking up on an easy, sunny morning with a wonderful day ahead of you. Something like that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1489265


:)
 Quoting: Chaol




Actually, I think we should work on this too, Ambra.

Btw, if anyone runs across the post where Chaol gives the example of how they use models, would you be so kind as to post it here? I have now spent 3 days looking for it and haven't found it yet! Arggggggh!

He talks about our model of going to bed too. I think! Anyway, thanks.
Ambra
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12/24/2012 06:19 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Interesting that such a question had me pondering a bit.

The very first answer to that was "rest". But then I realized it's not it. I feel more rested when I lay on the couch, either with the laptop, or watching some TV.

I usually delay going to bed, until the very last minute. So I'd rather say "exhaustion", or deep sleep and dreams.

Thinking further, due to lack of companionship, my current bed/symbol has seen zero sexual activity for a perceived long time, so it's pretty much a cold representation. :( But that's about to change with the use of the Genius! :)

Short of buying an eerie fake boyfriend doll (lol!), I'll start by placing a representation of companionship on it.

I thought of dusting off my old teddy bear, which has been sitting in a dark closet for years. Poor thing. It was my trusted companion and I shared all my thoughts with it, as a child.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424



I have an idea.....and it will kill a lot of birds with one Genius (a new saying, heh)

How about you and I work on a Genius together for a true love from Chaol's world? We would then also get our own teacher, :o)!!!!

Not that I'm griping about Chaol, but I have to live this stuff to really learn it. He is doing great but I want more, heh!!!!

What do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


That sounds great!

We just have to make sure our Geniuses will take us to two representatives from Chaol's world, or else we'll be cat fighting over him! he he

It's interesting that you mention that, because I was pondering on the qualities of my new soon to be perceived companion, and thought something quite similar! :)
 Quoting: Ambra 30733622



If you do a genius with your symbols and space and I do mine with my symbols and space, I think we would each have a guy, heh!

Feel free to PM me with your email address (or post it here if you feel comfortable doing that). We can brainstorm privately and then present our genius plans to chaol.
 Quoting: Unit3


I'd rather do everything on this board, so others can follow the process, if they so wish (or they can skip it), and/or Chaol can correct it.

Considering the mixed results I'm getting with the kabuchu word, I will have be very careful in defining the companion concept!

For example, this morning I found on the front porch, not just the white kitten, but the other tan one, which had never ventured over here so far! Two kittens, and a stray cat has sprayed the porch overnight, creating an unbearable stench... Oh my!!! lol!

I think I'll stick with a companion from this world. The last thing I want, is to define the arrival of someone from the other world, and get the departure of someone from this world, like a friend dying or my pet disappearing!

On another note, last night I dusted off my old teddy bear, and her girlfriend bear I bought for him eons ago, so he wouldn't feel lonely. I always thought that things have their own life, and while catching up I'm reading that Chaol states the same.

They smell musty/moldy [years in the closet in a plastic bag], so I'm going to refresh them with the jet-steam cleaner today. I simply placed them on the chest drawer in the bedroom, instead of on my bed... last night I had the weirdest vivid dream about men, and a cooking contest. I don't recall the details now, but it was a very eventful dream, full of people.

The plan is to create a unique genius symbol, a neuronicon for the concept [to map all related things that match the same input/output], create a unique word for the feeling, and start doing things "as if".

For instance, buy (after the Holiday craze) and start sleeping in cute night wear, instead of the current ugly torn our sweat pants [which are a signature of being single]. If a companion were to magically appear, I'd be frozen in embarrassment, creating much inner resistance.

Another inner resistance is my body shape not "quite" there yet. Getting closer though. I want to appear a little more slender and toned up. So I will have to work on this too, either just prior or at the same time.

I'll share all symbols once I have them.

Here you go, this is my brainstorming!
Ambra
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12/24/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I don't mean to take over this thread, but I'm pretty sure -- and Chaol should correct me if I am wrong -- that you can map for yourself a gentle awakening. Instead of the "crash" that is being predicted for some, simply map waking up on an easy, sunny morning with a wonderful day ahead of you. Something like that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1489265


:)
 Quoting: Chaol




Actually, I think we should work on this too, Ambra.

Btw, if anyone runs across the post where Chaol gives the example of how they use models, would you be so kind as to post it here? I have now spent 3 days looking for it and haven't found it yet! Arggggggh!

He talks about our model of going to bed too. I think! Anyway, thanks.
 Quoting: Unit3


Interesting. I don't know what crash it refers to, still catching up. It sounds good, though!
Ambra
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12/24/2012 07:16 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I also wanted to add, in case some lurking readers think "Oooh, you see? This stuff isn't working, she is getting two kittens now!"...

... that Chaol's concepts work indeed, and there is a definite shift in what we perceive, even when the results are not what we intended.

The tan kitten appearing on my porch is a totally new perception, he has never done this before! It's just me, not yet mastering how to define what I intend. Still don't have the "driver's license", so to speak.

If one doesn't know how to back out from the garage and hits the garbage can, the car is working fine, it's the driver that should learn how to drive!
Chaol

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12/24/2012 07:53 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
On another note, I recall Chaol saying at the beginning of the thread, to create new words for experiences we intend to perceive.

My neighbors got a white kitten, very cute (and the clone of my white cat Leonardo when he was a baby cat). The kitten of course likes to play and explore, and she has been a pest getting in and stealing the food on all occasions. My main activity has been chasing away the cat for a while now, lol. Basically, I am under siege at all times.

When she gets bigger, my poor Leo may get mistakenly chased instead of her...

Today, as I was exercising with the open door, I thought of Chaol's words, and came up with the word "kabuchu" to express the experience of an open door in complete relaxation. Within the concept of "kabuchu", my cats are free to move around and get in and out. it's not a limit to them, only a border where the unwanted stays out.

Kabuchu represents all entrances, including the gate to the garden, a peaceful territory.

Since I implemented it a few hours ago, I've seen the kitten only once (vs. all the time), and I chased her saying the word out loud to her. The door is open as I am typing this!

I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I am assuming there will be some bleed-through as the new experience adjusts itself.
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


I've made some portions of the above text bold for reference.

It would appear that you have not properly defined the word.

You've mentioned also that "...I couldn't remember it and misspelled it in my mind..."

So what exactly is kabuchu?

Is it 1) the experience of an open door; 2) a border where the unwanted stays out; 3) all entrances; or 4) something else?

I don't think it could be a border and an open door at the same time. The cats are probably confused about it :)

Yes, you can come up with a new word. But be sure to define exactly what it is.

You seemed to only mention using it with cats that you did not want to come in. But I wonder if you've used the word appropriately to your intention?

Using the word (appropriately) is the most important part.

Also, be clear about your definitions. For example, if it's a border where the unwanted stays out then one question is, "Unwanted to whom?" To you, neighbors, cats? It should be clear and easy to understand. The more conditions you have for your word the less effective it would be. That's where a string of new words would be useful, though I would suggest getting one to work for now.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/24/2012 08:12 AM
Anonymous Coward
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12/24/2012 07:57 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thread: December 25, 2012. Phoenix, Arizona WILL BE NUKED!!!!! FALSE FLAG for WW3, 100% VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!
Chaol

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12/24/2012 08:46 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To understand how you create perception look back at the airplane picture on the ecsys website. Now let's substitute today's events to make things more clear. When you have all of the props (the school, ambulances, police, SWAT team, a story about a shooter) and actors (grieving parents, grieving teachers, news media, other students) you don't actually need any harmed children. That part of the story is like the airplane. You will never see any real evidence that any children were actually harmed, because they were not harmed, it's not necessary because the other relationships tell you it must be real.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556


You're real, I'm real, Chaol is real...I bet every poster on this thread would say they are real.
 Quoting: Unit3


If you read it is it being written?

Or are you just reading it.
 Quoting: Chaol


It's being written while I read it.

Btw, whenever you have a chance, we are waiting for you in the dream thread.

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe": Meeting in the new Dream reality
 Quoting: Unit3


It could also be said that there is no need to write it. Only to perceive it.
Ambra
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12/24/2012 08:58 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
On another note, I recall Chaol saying at the beginning of the thread, to create new words for experiences we intend to perceive.

My neighbors got a white kitten, very cute (and the clone of my white cat Leonardo when he was a baby cat). The kitten of course likes to play and explore, and she has been a pest getting in and stealing the food on all occasions. My main activity has been chasing away the cat for a while now, lol. Basically, I am under siege at all times.

When she gets bigger, my poor Leo may get mistakenly chased instead of her...

Today, as I was exercising with the open door, I thought of Chaol's words, and came up with the word "kabuchu" to express the experience of an open door in complete relaxation. Within the concept of "kabuchu", my cats are free to move around and get in and out. it's not a limit to them, only a border where the unwanted stays out.

Kabuchu represents all entrances, including the gate to the garden, a peaceful territory.

Since I implemented it a few hours ago, I've seen the kitten only once (vs. all the time), and I chased her saying the word out loud to her. The door is open as I am typing this!

I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I am assuming there will be some bleed-through as the new experience adjusts itself.
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


I've made some portions of the above text bold for reference.

It would appear that you have not properly defined the word.

You've mentioned also that "...I couldn't remember it and misspelled it in my mind..."

So what exactly is kabuchu?

Is it 1) the experience of an open door; 2) a border where the unwanted stays out; 3) all entrances; or 4) something else?

I don't think it could be a border and an open door at the same time. The cats are probably confused about it :)

Yes, you can come up with a new word. But be sure to define exactly what it is.

You seemed to only mention using it with cats that you did not want to come in. But I wonder if you've used the word appropriately to your intention?

Using the word (appropriately) is the most important part.

Also, be clear about your definitions. For example, if it's a border where the unwanted stays out then one question is, "Unwanted to whom?" To you, neighbors, cats? It should be clear and easy to understand. The more conditions you have for your word the less effective it would be. That's where a string of new words would be useful, though I would suggest getting one to work for now.
 Quoting: Chaol


Chaol, thank you very much for your help!
I can see how the confusion was created now.

In explaining the result I intend, I was thinking about negative statements, as "I don't want the kitten rushing in at all times and feel under siege", and focused on the "door and all entrances" as the border.

Instead, I will state something about the kittens (including the tan one now) specifically.

Maybe the following will work better?

Mahlvallah =

1 - "[Name of both] kittens play and eat happily elsewhere"

or, possibly better

2 - "[Name of both] kittens have lost interest in interacting with me"
Chaol

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12/24/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
On another note, I recall Chaol saying at the beginning of the thread, to create new words for experiences we intend to perceive.

My neighbors got a white kitten, very cute (and the clone of my white cat Leonardo when he was a baby cat). The kitten of course likes to play and explore, and she has been a pest getting in and stealing the food on all occasions. My main activity has been chasing away the cat for a while now, lol. Basically, I am under siege at all times.

When she gets bigger, my poor Leo may get mistakenly chased instead of her...

Today, as I was exercising with the open door, I thought of Chaol's words, and came up with the word "kabuchu" to express the experience of an open door in complete relaxation. Within the concept of "kabuchu", my cats are free to move around and get in and out. it's not a limit to them, only a border where the unwanted stays out.

Kabuchu represents all entrances, including the gate to the garden, a peaceful territory.

Since I implemented it a few hours ago, I've seen the kitten only once (vs. all the time), and I chased her saying the word out loud to her. The door is open as I am typing this!

I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I am assuming there will be some bleed-through as the new experience adjusts itself.
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


I've made some portions of the above text bold for reference.

It would appear that you have not properly defined the word.

You've mentioned also that "...I couldn't remember it and misspelled it in my mind..."

So what exactly is kabuchu?

Is it 1) the experience of an open door; 2) a border where the unwanted stays out; 3) all entrances; or 4) something else?

I don't think it could be a border and an open door at the same time. The cats are probably confused about it :)

Yes, you can come up with a new word. But be sure to define exactly what it is.

You seemed to only mention using it with cats that you did not want to come in. But I wonder if you've used the word appropriately to your intention?

Using the word (appropriately) is the most important part.

Also, be clear about your definitions. For example, if it's a border where the unwanted stays out then one question is, "Unwanted to whom?" To you, neighbors, cats? It should be clear and easy to understand. The more conditions you have for your word the less effective it would be. That's where a string of new words would be useful, though I would suggest getting one to work for now.
 Quoting: Chaol


Chaol, thank you very much for your help!
I can see how the confusion was created now.

In explaining the result I intend, I was thinking about negative statements, as "I don't want the kitten rushing in at all times and feel under siege", and focused on the "door and all entrances" as the border.

Instead, I will state something about the kittens (including the tan one now) specifically.

Maybe the following will work better?

Mahlvallah =

1 - "[Name of both] kittens play and eat happily elsewhere"

or, possibly better

2 - "[Name of both] kittens have lost interest in interacting with me"
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How about a word that does not imply some kind of resistance? It may be more effective. Both numbers 1 and 2 imply a resistance.
Ambra
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12/24/2012 10:28 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, thank you very much for your help!
I can see how the confusion was created now.

In explaining the result I intend, I was thinking about negative statements, as "I don't want the kitten rushing in at all times and feel under siege", and focused on the "door and all entrances" as the border.

Instead, I will state something about the kittens (including the tan one now) specifically.

Maybe the following will work better?

Mahlvallah =

1 - "[Name of both] kittens play and eat happily elsewhere"

or, possibly better

2 - "[Name of both] kittens have lost interest in interacting with me"
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How about a word that does not imply some kind of resistance? It may be more effective. Both numbers 1 and 2 imply a resistance.
 Quoting: Chaol


Right.
I'll take the kittens out of the equation (as they are a source of resistance).

I have to say that Ecsys really makes one dig deep into their psychology, thinking of what each detail entails!

I just realized that the invading kittens are just an expression of also their owners. Really nice people, but there is a family group in two houses visiting each other and passing by, in a garden set up that makes me feel little privacy (confined).

Mahlvallah = "I am free in my living space"
It's the least resistance I can put in it, I guess. Lol!
Ambra
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12/24/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A small revision, which may have less resistance.

Mahlvallah = "I enjoy the freedom of my living space"

I like it better. This may even help me in finding the dream home to buy (I am renting now). I stopped searching, but I will resume thinking of the Mahlvallah concept.

The thing is, that when one is defining a concept to "get rid of a problem" will always have resistance in it. One should define a new desired experience instead. :-)
Unit3

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12/24/2012 10:53 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Season's Greetings!


:christmaswp:







[link to youtu.be]
Ambra
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12/24/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
.... aaaand the neighbors just called me from the garden to wish Merry Christmas! It's like a stage on a movie!

They are lovely people though.
Ambra
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12/24/2012 10:56 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Season's Greetings!


:christmaswp:







[link to youtu.be]
 Quoting: Unit3


Great music!
Season's Greetings to you too!
Chaol

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12/24/2012 11:10 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Death, to the few who really subscribe to X in my world, is more of a myth
 Quoting: Chaol

what this myth is about? and what purpose does it serve?
 Quoting: panoukos


There are stories about death and physical change. Like any myth, I suppose the purpose is to tell a story using the most basic of concepts.

Externalizing the desire or want provides us with new perspective. So "wishing" could actually make what we want (or think) more clear.
 Quoting: Chaol

Sure, but as you said:
It may be difficult to define what it is you actually want.
So, if defining a wish precedes the perspective, and if somebody who doesn't (know how to) wish, stays on his "default" perspective, then it makes me wonder, not only how and by whom the First wish was produced, but also what is the actual wish (which has produced my current perspective) that I am seeking to experience?
It couldn't be from "me" (because if I don't know how now, i couldn't know "back then")
Would that be right?
 Quoting: panoukos


Nothing precedes the perspective.

One does not come before the other.

Think of the new perspective as having an effect on all directions (past/present/future).

There is no default perspective. We experience what is most relative to us, all things considered.

The knowledge of knowing how (to wish, or whatever we want to call it) does not dictate the experience. It is experienced regardless of whether or not we think we know what we are doing.

Why would one want to reach a singular perspective?

Then the experience would be nothing.
 Quoting: Chaol

I don't know. My post was simply following you on this:
"It's all your perception. If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."
Not that my following on you was not false (you didn't reply to it anyway)
 Quoting: panoukos


If the intention is to reach a singular perspective (as a state of being) then the experience would be nothing, as there would be no conflict or drama. There would be nothing to perceive.

However, if the intention is to consider your reality as varying aspects of what you are then it would be difficult to do so if you wanted to attract some values while resisting or rejecting others.

We can consider ourselves as being all things in our perspective without the emptiness of actually being a single perspective.

Apologies for not being more clear about this.

You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be. An "expanded perspective" would entail knowing/understanding/experiencing going from bottle to bottle (rather than not knowing) and doing it consciously. As this is simultaneous you may experience what seems like multiple perspectives at once. However this is still one bottle-perspective in the same way you are experiencing that now with all of the perspectives of your physical body.
 Quoting: Chaol

Do you identify "singular perspective", "expanded perspective", "experiencing what seems like multiple perspectives at once" with "the experience would be nothing"? Or have I misread you here? Please clarify

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my posts.
 Quoting: panoukos


By "You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be," I mean that the illusion of perspective is an illusion. A singular perspective dictates that nothing is there with which to compare, and thus to know. So we are all ready what we seek, if we are seeking a singular perspective.

We are all ready "nothing" and this "something" is an illusion.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/24/2012 11:15 AM
Unit3

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12/24/2012 11:13 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.


I'd rather do everything on this board, so others can follow the process, if they so wish (or they can skip it), and/or Chaol can correct it.

Considering the mixed results I'm getting with the kabuchu word, I will have be very careful in defining the companion concept!

For example, this morning I found on the front porch, not just the white kitten, but the other tan one, which had never ventured over here so far! Two kittens, and a stray cat has sprayed the porch overnight, creating an unbearable stench... Oh my!!! lol!

I think I'll stick with a companion from this world. The last thing I want, is to define the arrival of someone from the other world, and get the departure of someone from this world, like a friend dying or my pet disappearing!

I'll share all symbols once I have them.

Here you go, this is my brainstorming!
 Quoting: Ambra 30733622




Verrry interesting. You gave me lots to think about. Thanks.

I remember now, that in some of the earlier posts of these threads, folks were having mixed results. I can't say I've had solid results yet but I haven't really tried the word thing either. It seems to work fast from what I can tell.

I have 4 Genius plans right now but I learned not to expect much for a few months. So, I"m probably 1/2 way through. I have noticed some smaller changes though, so we'll see.

I would like to feel I have control of what might happen from my Genius plans, but I don't really think it's possible. I guess understanding better how it all works would help things, of course. But, we already work the Genius anyway and have learned that some things happen that we don't want to have happen.

I wonder if the results we end up with lie in motives behind intent? It seems the more accepting and forgiving I am, the better my life goes. Since I am already using the Genius, it seems to me something about character influences my life.

The more I want something or don't want something, both show up. This seems to be the bottom line to me.

If someone dies, how would I know it's because of my Genius?
How would making a Genius plan for someone from Chaol's world be that much different from someone in our world? Both are here right now. (again, I'm just thinking out loud...I am exploring my mind and heart.)

I look forward to anyone's replies.
Unit3

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12/24/2012 11:16 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A small revision, which may have less resistance.

Mahlvallah = "I enjoy the freedom of my living space"

I like it better. This may even help me in finding the dream home to buy (I am renting now). I stopped searching, but I will resume thinking of the Mahlvallah concept.

The thing is, that when one is defining a concept to "get rid of a problem" will always have resistance in it. One should define a new desired experience instead. :-)
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611




Well, the desired experience implies the undesired, LOL! However, I don't want to be completely flat about everything. I think it's all about acceptance, what do you think?
Unit3

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12/24/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.


Nothing precedes the perspective.

One does not come before the other.

Think of the new perspective as having an effect on all directions (past/present/future).

There is no default perspective. We experience what is most relative to us, all things considered.

The knowledge of knowing how (to wish, or whatever we want to call it) does not dictate the experience. It is experienced regardless of whether or not we think we know what we are doing.

...

I don't know. My post was simply following you on this:
"It's all your perception. If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."
Not that my following on you was not false (you didn't reply to it anyway)
 Quoting: panoukos


If the intention is to reach a singular perspective (as a state of being) then the experience would be nothing, as there would be no conflict or drama. There would be nothing to perceive.

However, if the intention is to consider your reality as varying aspects of what you are then it would be difficult to do so if you wanted to attract some values while resisting or rejecting others.

We can consider ourselves as being all things in our perspective without the emptiness of actually being a single perspective.

Apologies for not being more clear about this.

By "You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be," I mean that the illusion of perspective is an illusion. A singular perspective dictates that nothing is there with which to compare, and thus to know. So we are all ready what we seek, if we are seeking a singular perspective.

We are all ready "nothing" and this "something" is an illusion.
 Quoting: Chaol




Wow, lots to think about here.

Okay, I see that we have perspective at all times. We use bread crumbs (thanks Jesse) to "expand or explore" them.

We are nothing so that's why we can fill with something, which is consciousness.

However, you state above that whether we know what we are doing or not (with the Genius), we don't dictate the experience. So why are we learning how to use the Genius? And who has a subconscious if we are nothing?

Thanks
Chaol

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12/24/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Perspective is afar from questions and answers
 Quoting: Chaol


No disagreement, but if I can explain how i connected them.

Externalizing the desire or want provides us with new perspective.
 Quoting: Chaol


"Externalizing the desire" to me means that i am at point A that i know of and i "want" to go to point B.

So before you say "point B", haven't you asked questions like "where i want to go, why i want to go there and how i will go there?" If you haven't answered, there is no "point B" that creates the perspective. Isn't it?

So, the whatever perspective we each currently experience comes from the whichever answers we have given to our whichever questions we asked in the first place.

Besides when you say:
"dont ask how to win the lottery, ask how you can have an abundance of money instead, for example", is it not an attempt to shifting/creating a perspective through a question? How else could you have done this to yourself or to others, other than through questions and answers?
 Quoting: panoukos


(The following is provided for illustration only...)

We know very little compared with our own subconscious.

When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious.

We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there.

Our subconscious asks no questions nor provides any answers.

The questions are like queues for our subconscious to interpret. We can then interpret the "result".

The waking mind asks the questions and interprets what may be seen as answers.

When you say, "So, the whatever perspective we each currently experience comes from the whichever answers we have given to our whichever questions we asked in the first place." we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind.

For, "dont ask how to win the lottery, ask how you can have an abundance of money instead, for example", [I don't think this is a direct quote, but I will respond as though it was] it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model.

I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"

The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective.
Chaol

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12/24/2012 11:58 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


It's your ancient secret ("deep, dark", as it would be said).

It's one of those things that we don't want to think about. As it implies that we would not exist. Indeed, it is the thing we don't want to consider. Only in an abstract way, perhaps.

It's something I've covered at length so the basics are no secret for me. Only the practical applications.

If you cannot perceive of something directly then what are you actually perceiving?
 Quoting: Chaol


You'd be perceiving an inferential experience?

I think that that inference is made by our intent and is subject to the logic in the system by which we perceive. We are basically choosing what we experience at all times. It's just that on the most basic level we (as we currently can perceive our sense of self) do not exist. Am I off?
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


No intent is needed.

If we experience what is most relative (or seem to) then what choice is there?

You'd be choosing something that not only all ready exists but does not really exist.

This is a longer discussion, as it gets into questions like "what about decisions?" and such.

If you're up for it, let me know.
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you. I am up for it.

I had perceived decisions to be the execution of "choice". I had also assumed that choices are based on the information we have "acquired" on the current experience within the decision space that the logic allows.

In that way I assumed that the ability to "choose" anything defined "free will" and I also assumed all this was fundamental to our "ability" to perceive (at the level we do "perceive").
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


"Free will" is an illusion.

Unfortunately, there is no free will because of the dependent nature of values in perspective.

We can say that you choose to go out and get a cheeseburger as an example of how you have control over what you decide to do.

Yet we ignore so much about the supposed choice, focusing only on what seems like the end result (a tasty cheeseburger).

We don't think about not being able to materialize a cheeseburger without going outside, or going out to get a cantaloupe burger, or having to put on clothes and pay for it. The cheeseburger is entirely dependent on a myriad of other interdependent systems working together in unison to bring you the appearance of free will.

That's the say nothing of the reality that the cheeseburger is not real.

Free will presumes that we can be, at times, able to not experience the most relative perspective next.

The most relative perspective is what we experience, not free will. But this is also not a choice. You are not forced into experiencing anything, of course. This is the only way it could possibly be done because there is no actual energy.

The energy of the universe is an illusion. It would be impossible to 'jump' over to the 2nd least-wasteful perspective just for the fun of it. The reason that we experience that which takes the least amount of energy (or interactions) is because the energy is not really there to begin with.

If choices are "...based on the information we have "acquired" on the current experience within the decision space that the logic allows" would that also include the 99.999% of all information regarding our experience that our senses is not aware of? [Scientists would provide that number. I would say 100%]

So would this be a conscious choice based on a very infinitesimally small amount of total information? That's to say nothing of the contradicting or misleading information that our brains don't know what to do with.

It is not that we are free to choose from a selected variety of perspectives. It is that free will is meaningless when everything depends on everything else. It's one system, you could say.

So are you free to go get yourself a cheeseburger? Yes. As long as it is realized that the concept of freedom of choice is irrelevant.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/24/2012 12:51 PM
Chaol

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12/24/2012 12:01 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Now that we've briefly discussed use of the Genius how about we talk about ways that we use it in our everyday lives, without realizing it?

Take what you know about how to make a Genius model and apply it to the world that is all ready around you.

This is a tricky one but it is the step that leads up to more advanced uses of Ecsys.

I'll start with a hint:

Everything of your perception is a symbol
 Quoting: Chaol


Entering the dreamworld
Symbol - Queen size bed
Space - Bedroom
Interaction - Trying to gain an inch of mattress and pillow, while cats are faster than me as they jump over
Logic - Turning to left side of body, closing eyes and following colored shapes, until waking consciousness fades away
 Quoting: Ambra 30479979


Yes. And your interacts have an effect on your dreamworld.

Anything you interact with has an effect on what you'd call your past/present/future perspective.

What does your bed represent?
 Quoting: Chaol


Interesting that such a question had me pondering a bit.

The very first answer to that was "rest". But then I realized it's not it. I feel more rested when I lay on the couch, either with the laptop, or watching some TV.

I usually delay going to bed, until the very last minute. So I'd rather say "exhaustion", or deep sleep and dreams.

Thinking further, due to lack of companionship, my current bed/symbol has seen zero sexual activity for a perceived long time, so it's pretty much a cold representation. :( But that's about to change with the use of the Genius! :)

Short of buying an eerie fake boyfriend doll (lol!), I'll start by placing a representation of companionship on it.

I thought of dusting off my old teddy bear, which has been sitting in a dark closet for years. Poor thing. It was my trusted companion and I shared all my thoughts with it, as a child.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


May I ask, for how long have you only thought of your bed as a 'last resort' for sleep? (Rather than something you could feel relaxed or comfortable on.)
Chaol

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12/24/2012 12:02 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi.

Did you create the wax owl candle?
 Quoting: Chaol


No. I bought it a couple of years ago at a fair market.
My understanding was that we should use any object/symbol already around us (toothbrush, coin, etc.). A different exercise than creating a Genius symbol. Is this correct?
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


It would be far more effective if it was something unique that you created, with little-to-no inherent meaning.
 Quoting: Chaol


I am very confused about the Awareness Expansion Exercise now.

Wasn't that supposed to be done with what surrounds us, keep one value and change the other three?

Some posters mentioned using a comb as a scratcher, or placing a screwdriver in the toothbrush cup. You mentioned the coin example.

Something unique with no inherent meaning is for the Genius, right?
I thought the exercise was a different thing.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


Yes, you can do the awareness expansion exercise with what is around you.

But do the Genius (a separate thing) with something new.

Let me know how it goes.
Ambra
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12/24/2012 12:05 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A small revision, which may have less resistance.

Mahlvallah = "I enjoy the freedom of my living space"

I like it better. This may even help me in finding the dream home to buy (I am renting now). I stopped searching, but I will resume thinking of the Mahlvallah concept.

The thing is, that when one is defining a concept to "get rid of a problem" will always have resistance in it. One should define a new desired experience instead. :-)
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611




Well, the desired experience implies the undesired, LOL! However, I don't want to be completely flat about everything. I think it's all about acceptance, what do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


While I'll ponder on your other post, it seems to me that not all desired experiences imply the undesired, if that is already not relevant.

[New perspective]
Let's say I want to go to Spain for a holiday, as an example. It is a desired experience, and it would be fun to get the Genius working, but not going is not undesired, just irrelevant. Content either way.

[Change of current perspective]
In the case of the kitten, I really want to create a change, as I am tired of chasing after it, so the desired experience does imply the undesired (resistance), if perception stays focused on the problem (even indirectly), which is relevant.

This, to me is the trickier part.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thank you again for opening me up to all this!

I would like to use my models on things/experiences I might have deemed impossible (either consciously or unconsciously). Most of my success I think has been due to the simplicity of my expectations and also being able to "see" that it is possible (even easy to achieve) with my genius.

For example, I would like to meet a guy who is perfect for me but if I have never experienced this in my reality, it seems like it might not be possible. Hope you understand. I have yet to make a model for this though. Maybe that should be my next one ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30493537


Let me know how it goes =)

be sure to define what 'the perfect guy' would mean to you. It could even be just one thing. Just so that your subconscious knows what you mean. (This will help it to differentiate a perfect guy in a story, showing you the path to... a new book, versus the perfect guy who lets you trim his nosehairs, for example.)
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Sun would sure be easy to use for space in a Genius. (Well, as long as you didn't live in a region where it's dark for 6 mos.!) Unless you know how to use it in regards to your body??????
 Quoting: Unit3


If you know how to get your symbol to rest in it, sure :)
 Quoting: Chaol


I could add lemon juice and water together and drink it while standing on my left foot, every Thursday.
 Quoting: Unit3


If your space is the Sun then your symbol should rest (mostly, not all ways) in/of it.

Unless you have a spaceship I don't know about maybe an other space would work better *smile*
Chaol

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12/24/2012 12:10 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Now that we've briefly discussed use of the Genius how about we talk about ways that we use it in our everyday lives, without realizing it?

Take what you know about how to make a Genius model and apply it to the world that is all ready around you.

This is a tricky one but it is the step that leads up to more advanced uses of Ecsys.

I'll start with a hint:

Everything of your perception is a symbol
 Quoting: Chaol


I think this is a great exercise. I've been trying to figure it out.

Here's what I'll say in answer to your quesiton:

I give meaning to everything I perceive.
 Quoting: Unit3


As you might be inclined to say, where does this meaning come from?
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, a very good question which I've given a lot of thought to. My answer is programming. However, until I met you, I thought the programming is from whatever I "decide" or am taught.

Now, I am not so sure!!!
 Quoting: Unit3


If it is programming, are you capable of changing the program?

If so, could it mean that the program is being re-created now? Or is at least able to be changed now?

If so, then who or what is doing that?
Ambra
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12/24/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


No. I bought it a couple of years ago at a fair market.
My understanding was that we should use any object/symbol already around us (toothbrush, coin, etc.). A different exercise than creating a Genius symbol. Is this correct?
 Quoting: Ambra 30632718


It would be far more effective if it was something unique that you created, with little-to-no inherent meaning.
 Quoting: Chaol


I am very confused about the Awareness Expansion Exercise now.

Wasn't that supposed to be done with what surrounds us, keep one value and change the other three?

Some posters mentioned using a comb as a scratcher, or placing a screwdriver in the toothbrush cup. You mentioned the coin example.

Something unique with no inherent meaning is for the Genius, right?
I thought the exercise was a different thing.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


Yes, you can do the awareness expansion exercise with what is around you.

But do the Genius (a separate thing) with something new.

Let me know how it goes.
 Quoting: Chaol


Great.
The wax owl candle was for the exercise, not the Genius.

I kept the symbol (a decorating candle).
Interaction - changed (all elements in bathroom)
Possibility/space - changed (bathroom shelf)
Logic - changed (placing on sink when brushing teeth)

Because it feels as if I simply moved something around (which I constantly do, as I am decluttering and improving the space), maybe the interaction is too simple? Should I use it as a "wrinkle-eraser", rather than decoration?
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


I hear you. When Chaol is around and posting, one doesn't want to miss the opportunity.

I always promise myself to reread the entire thread from page 1 and take notes, but find myself always catching up with the new pages! Right now, I'm around page 180...

Will let you know how the kabuchu experience will be tomorrow!
 Quoting: Ambra 30667141




OK, looking forward to hearing about the white kitten experiment, heh!

I take notes too. Right now, I'm going back through the thread where I've already read, looking for Chaol's post on the models they use in their world. (He compared it to ours re: going to bed at night!!!)

I break my notes down into subject matter, which makes it linear in the way I like, LOL! You are way better than I am at sticking to it though.

I did just find, back in the thread, where Chaol mentions Tetris in a post. I assume he either has played it or at least likes it because he was going to base an Ec game on it.

I'm always looking for brain games and this might be something I could get into. (The 5D Rubick's cube I posted a couple of days ago is over my head right now.)

So, I did find this online Tetris game which I like because I don't have to download software (seems to always be a problem for me, heh! I'm an artist, not a computer brain.)
All I have to do is figure out the point of it and I"m good.

[link to www.freetetris.org]
 Quoting: Unit3


The models we use are quite complicated. There's no point in going into them now.

Tetris is fun. The music makes it even more fun. Here's the Ec version: [link to ecsys.org] or [link to ecsys.org]
 Quoting: Chaol


Thanks. I love the music but I want to play it too. Do you have a version of it or is the link I provided good enough?
 Quoting: Unit3


It should play in your browser. It's just a little tune, quite short.