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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Jesse Sovoda

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12/25/2012 12:38 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol




Thank you and the very same to you. blwkss


Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in this coming year.


xmas

:CHRISTM:
 Quoting: Unit3


hf

rockon
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Chaol

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12/25/2012 01:14 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/25/2012 01:16 AM
6851335
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Merry Xmas all you X-humans
Ambra
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12/25/2012 03:04 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
xmas
6853315
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12/25/2012 10:34 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!
 Quoting: Chaol


Search for and download at archive.org. under "Texts"
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!
 Quoting: Chaol


Search for and download at archive.org. under "Texts"
 Quoting: 6853315 2154047





What do you mean Chaol, in the bold statement above?


I just tried twice to post the actual link of the 1906 edition and it wouldn't post. Strange, eh?

Anyway, it's........sacred-texts (dot) com/

gno/ th1/ index.htm



Edit: I'm reading this today and found this that caught my attention:

"... for when the knowing of existing things and being wise is taken from it, freedom from death is Timeónot Life."

Wonder if you want to start a discussion thread on this text, XWon?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 09:07 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You're too sweet. I know from talking with you that you are very patient, with all of us, and always try to clarify.

It's appreciated and you do very well with the language confusion. I should do so well!
 Quoting: Unit3


Thank you for the kind words =)

It's a pleasure to be here.
 Quoting: Chaol





hf
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
1-2/(sq(infinity))
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12/25/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The answer is a triangle.
Unit3

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12/25/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The answer is a triangle.
 Quoting: 1-2/(sq(infinity)) 981274




pyramid

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 12:40 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol




Thank you and the very same to you. blwkss


Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in this coming year.



 Quoting: Unit3


hf

rockon
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda





gwdance

blair chorus xmas

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 01:06 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
panoukos

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12/25/2012 01:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you Chaol for your clarifications.
Apologies for the long post, which is because I seemed as if I was trying to discredit you on something with my posts, whereas I was trying to elaborate on what you have said, through my own perspective and trying to make obvious, something that apparently isn't so.

It is expectable that somebody who lives in a world like yours, may have only to think of your question above. But in this world we have to deal with the primal question first and that is, "what is the point B?" (which is a question by the way, that wouldn't exist if none has ever told us that there are "points" out there)

Maybe you take it for granted that point B can always be available and handy to anyone of us.

I do understand that once you have articulated (or defined, or even better represented) what point B is, then the subconscious takes over and guide you through to it, making it relative to your experience. You show it the dot to connect it for you. You do that by representing it with a "crazy" symbol and by following some "crazy" rules (the craziest the better) you will eventually see/experience the dot you asked your Genius to show you.
That is understandable (simple) and makes sense to me.

I also understand that I dont have to enter into any game of Q&As afterwards, as to how am i going to experience it, what else i have to do to "help" it etc, etc. No, none of this.

Nevertheless, all my posts about the Q&As refer to the very very basics and even before you appear with the Ec and the Genius.
In this world we are used in questions "what do you desire", "what do you want", "make a wish" and follow "rational", "spiritual", "illegal", or all sorts of methods and ways to achieve it, with hit and miss results.

When you come and say "I will show you a way to experience what you want" with a solid rationale behind it, which comes down to "what you ask is what you (can) get, precisely", you create "confusion" to us, maybe because we are not used in asking precisely ourselves what we want to experience, or because we never thought we had to (like none of us has 3 questions handy to ask the alien tourist who will meet in a bar).

So, your method has revealed to us (or at least to me) that the most important bit each of us has to solve for himself before seeing any value or benefit from what you are saying, is to know "what is it that I ask".

It also seems to be easy for at least 20 recorded successes with the Genius, that is they knew what they asked for. But I risk to say that this is not the rule.

So I do understand you clearly, when you say
"When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious."
Meaning that when we have a "point B" ready, we pass it to the subconscious to do its job.

"We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there."
Sure! all we need is just to name it: "this is the point B, take me there"

"The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective."
Again to the point! Before you represent it, you must know what exactly you are representing.

Therefore, where i see you are helping me (and others) more, is to articulate the point B, which is a waking mind exercise, that is language, that is Q&A, that is words.

And if it is the point B, that will necessarily determine the perspective that we will experience, then the perspective will be subject to the Q&As we chose to ask ourselves before, in order to find it.

If not mistaken, I see you confirming it when you say:
"The way we define things surely affects our experience and the way we see things (and react to them)."
How else do we try to define things if not by (specific to us) Q&As?

or...
"...What if our perspective is shaped from the languages we use?"
if the language we use is made by concepts that we arrived at through Q&A about (our) life and death then how ...
..."we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind."?

or even better when you used an example:
"this is a symbol of my wealth" is less specific than, say, "this is the key that opens the door to my estate in Monaco". With the former, the map is confused because there is no specific perspective.(emphasis mine)

Once we're able to define what it means then we can begin to experience it. But without a picture of what it means it is fairly meaningless."

What you've stated there is exactly as you said to me here:
"...it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious (I never claimed it was, or that I ask questions my subconscious) but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model."
For the model to be effective therefore, it requires a clear definition of "point B".

"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
know thy word
Jesse Sovoda

User ID: 11481360
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12/25/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you Chaol for your clarifications.
Apologies for the long post, which is because I seemed as if I was trying to discredit you on something with my posts, whereas I was trying to elaborate on what you have said, through my own perspective and trying to make obvious, something that apparently isn't so.

It is expectable that somebody who lives in a world like yours, may have only to think of your question above. But in this world we have to deal with the primal question first and that is, "what is the point B?" (which is a question by the way, that wouldn't exist if none has ever told us that there are "points" out there)

Maybe you take it for granted that point B can always be available and handy to anyone of us.

I do understand that once you have articulated (or defined, or even better represented) what point B is, then the subconscious takes over and guide you through to it, making it relative to your experience. You show it the dot to connect it for you. You do that by representing it with a "crazy" symbol and by following some "crazy" rules (the craziest the better) you will eventually see/experience the dot you asked your Genius to show you.
That is understandable (simple) and makes sense to me.

I also understand that I dont have to enter into any game of Q&As afterwards, as to how am i going to experience it, what else i have to do to "help" it etc, etc. No, none of this.

Nevertheless, all my posts about the Q&As refer to the very very basics and even before you appear with the Ec and the Genius.
In this world we are used in questions "what do you desire", "what do you want", "make a wish" and follow "rational", "spiritual", "illegal", or all sorts of methods and ways to achieve it, with hit and miss results.

When you come and say "I will show you a way to experience what you want" with a solid rationale behind it, which comes down to "what you ask is what you (can) get, precisely", you create "confusion" to us, maybe because we are not used in asking precisely ourselves what we want to experience, or because we never thought we had to (like none of us has 3 questions handy to ask the alien tourist who will meet in a bar).

So, your method has revealed to us (or at least to me) that the most important bit each of us has to solve for himself before seeing any value or benefit from what you are saying, is to know "what is it that I ask".

It also seems to be easy for at least 20 recorded successes with the Genius, that is they knew what they asked for. But I risk to say that this is not the rule.

So I do understand you clearly, when you say
"When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious."
Meaning that when we have a "point B" ready, we pass it to the subconscious to do its job.

"We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there."
Sure! all we need is just to name it: "this is the point B, take me there"

"The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective."
Again to the point! Before you represent it, you must know what exactly you are representing.

Therefore, where i see you are helping me (and others) more, is to articulate the point B, which is a waking mind exercise, that is language, that is Q&A, that is words.

And if it is the point B, that will necessarily determine the perspective that we will experience, then the perspective will be subject to the Q&As we chose to ask ourselves before, in order to find it.

If not mistaken, I see you confirming it when you say:
"The way we define things surely affects our experience and the way we see things (and react to them)."
How else do we try to define things if not by (specific to us) Q&As?

or...
"...What if our perspective is shaped from the languages we use?"
if the language we use is made by concepts that we arrived at through Q&A about (our) life and death then how ...
..."we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind."?

or even better when you used an example:
"this is a symbol of my wealth" is less specific than, say, "this is the key that opens the door to my estate in Monaco". With the former, the map is confused because there is no specific perspective.(emphasis mine)

Once we're able to define what it means then we can begin to experience it. But without a picture of what it means it is fairly meaningless."

What you've stated there is exactly as you said to me here:
"...it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious (I never claimed it was, or that I ask questions my subconscious) but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model."
For the model to be effective therefore, it requires a clear definition of "point B".

"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos


Thank you. We can know this intellectually, but how is it possible to bridge that belief gap between executing it properly and absolute failure? Acceptance?

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 12/25/2012 02:10 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos


Thank you. We can know this intellectually, but how is it possible to bridge that belief gap between executing it properly and absolute failure? Acceptance?
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I think acceptance is huge. When we execute a Genius, there is no way we can know all the variables that need to take place to make what we want to happen. And probably, if we did, we would never want to use one.

That's why I think it's better to make Point B as simple as possible and also make it the side issue...such as the keys to my house on the Riviera rather than a house on the Riviera.


Edit: Btw, what do you mean by failure?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 02:49 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
:)
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To get from point a to point b you need to travel first to point c in the future, so to be able to create the conditions for point b to be able to happen :)
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To get from point a to point b you need to travel first to point c in the future, so to be able to create the conditions for point b to be able to happen :)
 Quoting: :) 981274




Every perception influences past/present/future, NOW!
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
LeKing

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12/25/2012 06:59 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol


Same to you, and everyone else :)

Last Edited by LeKing on 12/25/2012 07:00 PM
Not-Chaol
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Merry X-mas all. I am here to answer your questions, fire away.

Not-Chaol.
Jesse Sovoda

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12/25/2012 11:44 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos


Thank you. We can know this intellectually, but how is it possible to bridge that belief gap between executing it properly and absolute failure? Acceptance?
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I think acceptance is huge. When we execute a Genius, there is no way we can know all the variables that need to take place to make what we want to happen. And probably, if we did, we would never want to use one.

That's why I think it's better to make Point B as simple as possible and also make it the side issue...such as the keys to my house on the Riviera rather than a house on the Riviera.


Edit: Btw, what do you mean by failure?
 Quoting: Unit3


By failure I am referring to that thing that happens where all is going "as intended" then you start "second guessing" your process and it mucks it up.

There are a few things that I am not willing to give up. I'm taking my trip through perspective and looking to make sure my experience includes those closest to me. I'm unwilling to give them up unless they're no longer relevant. If I am working through a genius and my wife (for instance) begins to become less relevant I tend to scratch that route and do something that will allow her to retain her relevance within my perspective.

It doesn't matter how "powerful" superman is, if he cannot protect his Lois Lane, adoptive father etc... (and I am no "superman")

Chaol moved into an alternate perspective to experience his girl. I (already) have mine, I plan on keeping her :).
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
tuuuuur

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12/26/2012 04:33 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Long non-linear dreams tonight... In which I:
- had a managing job (I don't want that in waking life) where I had to appear in suit and tie; in de dram I thought back at how I got that job and couldn't figure it out
- re-applied at the religious group I was a member of until a few years ago
- liked a photo of a high-level 1960's parking lot, which I then was hovering above and then drove up to. Apparently somewhere in Israel (where I never was).

I love dreaming, but my dreams makes less and less sense these last weeks.
Tuuur
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you and to you (we) as well :)

What an amazing thread this is. Thank you all. And more more MORE...

<3
YESNO
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12/26/2012 06:46 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
no
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.


Nothing precedes the perspective.

One does not come before the other.

Think of the new perspective as having an effect on all directions (past/present/future).

There is no default perspective. We experience what is most relative to us, all things considered.

The knowledge of knowing how (to wish, or whatever we want to call it) does not dictate the experience. It is experienced regardless of whether or not we think we know what we are doing.

...


If the intention is to reach a singular perspective (as a state of being) then the experience would be nothing, as there would be no conflict or drama. There would be nothing to perceive.

However, if the intention is to consider your reality as varying aspects of what you are then it would be difficult to do so if you wanted to attract some values while resisting or rejecting others.

We can consider ourselves as being all things in our perspective without the emptiness of actually being a single perspective.

Apologies for not being more clear about this.

By "You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be," I mean that the illusion of perspective is an illusion. A singular perspective dictates that nothing is there with which to compare, and thus to know. So we are all ready what we seek, if we are seeking a singular perspective.

We are all ready "nothing" and this "something" is an illusion.
 Quoting: Chaol


Wow, lots to think about here.

Okay, I see that we have perspective at all times. We use bread crumbs (thanks Jesse) to "expand or explore" them.

We are nothing so that's why we can fill with something, which is consciousness.

However, you state above that whether we know what we are doing or not (with the Genius), we don't dictate the experience. So why are we learning how to use the Genius? And who has a subconscious if we are nothing?

Thanks
 Quoting: panoukos


Interesting questions.

We don't dictate the experience, we are the experience. Dictating implies an external something to dictate.

However, this experience is the illusion of the relationship that arises between illusion.

I use terms like "subconscious" (and pretty much every word here) for convenience of understanding. It is impossible to be nothing. Being is irrelevant to 'nothing'. It is also impossible to express this in language.

You can learn about the Genius for a variety of reasons. For some it may be to create more interesting illusions and dramas. For others it may be to realize that your subconscious is conscious to itself, and to realize that you are all ready your subconscious and, thus, can interact with more aspects of your perspective.

I don't want to give the impression that this nothing is without value. It is beyond value. It is the difference between a precious gem (which may make us all feel good) and the entire universe (which is beyond feeling). What price is the universe? It is without value, and to everything it is invaluable.
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.


...



Edit: Btw, what do you mean by failure?
 Quoting: panoukos


By failure I am referring to that thing that happens where all is going "as intended" then you start "second guessing" your process and it mucks it up.

There are a few things that I am not willing to give up. I'm taking my trip through perspective and looking to make sure my experience includes those closest to me. I'm unwilling to give them up unless they're no longer relevant. If I am working through a genius and my wife (for instance) begins to become less relevant I tend to scratch that route and do something that will allow her to retain her relevance within my perspective.

It doesn't matter how "powerful" superman is, if he cannot protect his Lois Lane, adoptive father etc... (and I am no "superman")

Chaol moved into an alternate perspective to experience his girl. I (already) have mine, I plan on keeping her :).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I'm trying to make sure I follow you here. I get it about wanting to include several factors in your perspective, such as family. I too am trying to include mine.

So are you saying through using your Genius, you have seen your gf becoming less relevant and had to change it?

I had one instance where the day seemed overwhelmingly strange and it included one of my family members. Fortunately, I was able to come up with something that seemed logical to her, LOL, but when I got home, I juggled my Genius. And to be honest, I don't really know if my Genius was really involved anyway.

To me, failure is giving up. And I don't really see that happening either, because we aren't going to be free of perspective......ever, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, I would love to know more about your experiences if you feel to share. My family is coming more into view right now.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Nothing precedes the perspective.

One does not come before the other.

Think of the new perspective as having an effect on all directions (past/present/future).

There is no default perspective. We experience what is most relative to us, all things considered.

The knowledge of knowing how (to wish, or whatever we want to call it) does not dictate the experience. It is experienced regardless of whether or not we think we know what we are doing.

Why would one want to reach a singular perspective?

Then the experience would be nothing.
 Quoting: Chaol

I don't know. My post was simply following you on this:
"It's all your perception. If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."
Not that my following on you was not false (you didn't reply to it anyway)
 Quoting: panoukos


If the intention is to reach a singular perspective (as a state of being) then the experience would be nothing, as there would be no conflict or drama. There would be nothing to perceive.

However, if the intention is to consider your reality as varying aspects of what you are then it would be difficult to do so if you wanted to attract some values while resisting or rejecting others.

We can consider ourselves as being all things in our perspective without the emptiness of actually being a single perspective.

Apologies for not being more clear about this.

By "You are as much a singular perspective now as you will ever be," I mean that the illusion of perspective is an illusion. A singular perspective dictates that nothing is there with which to compare, and thus to know. So we are all ready what we seek, if we are seeking a singular perspective.

We are all ready "nothing" and this "something" is an illusion.
 Quoting: Chaol


Wow, lots to think about here.

Okay, I see that we have perspective at all times. We use bread crumbs (thanks Jesse) to "expand or explore" them.

We are nothing so that's why we can fill with something, which is consciousness.

However, you state above that whether we know what we are doing or not (with the Genius), we don't dictate the experience. So why are we learning how to use the Genius? And who has a subconscious if we are nothing?

Thanks
 Quoting: Unit3


Interesting questions.

We don't dictate the experience, we are
the experience. Dictating implies an external something to dictate.

However, this experience is the illusion of the relationship that arises between illusion.

I use terms like "subconscious" (and pretty much every word here) for convenience of understanding. It is impossible to be nothing. Being is irrelevant to 'nothing'. It is also impossible to express this in language.

You can learn about the Genius for a variety of reasons. For some it may be to create more interesting illusions and dramas. For others it may be to realize that your subconscious is conscious to itself, and to realize that you are all ready your subconscious and, thus, can interact with more aspects of your perspective.

I don't want to give the impression that this nothing is without value. It is beyond value. It is the difference between a precious gem (which may make us all feel good) and the entire universe (which is beyond feeling). What price is the universe? It is without value, and to everything it is invaluable.

Quoting: Chaol




I understand that dictating an experience implies something external, but I don't know how to get beyond this. I know everything is within my mind. I change my mind, things change.

Yesterday, I took a walk and decided I would notice other things than usual. I did so, and the other things were all things I didn't really care to see...oil drips on the street, rust marks on the sidewalk, etc:.

I can also see it's impossible to be nothing. I've certainly tried, LOL! There is always something as far as I can tell.

I'm thinking about the rest you said and thank you. hf

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/26/2012 10:41 AM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:40 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


It would be far more effective if it was something unique that you created, with little-to-no inherent meaning.
 Quoting: Chaol


I am very confused about the Awareness Expansion Exercise now.

Wasn't that supposed to be done with what surrounds us, keep one value and change the other three?

Some posters mentioned using a comb as a scratcher, or placing a screwdriver in the toothbrush cup. You mentioned the coin example.

Something unique with no inherent meaning is for the Genius, right?
I thought the exercise was a different thing.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


Yes, you can do the awareness expansion exercise with what is around you.

But do the Genius (a separate thing) with something new.

Let me know how it goes.
 Quoting: Chaol


Great.
The wax owl candle was for the exercise, not the Genius.

I kept the symbol (a decorating candle).
Interaction - changed (all elements in bathroom)
Possibility/space - changed (bathroom shelf)
Logic - changed (placing on sink when brushing teeth)

Because it feels as if I simply moved something around (which I constantly do, as I am decluttering and improving the space), maybe the interaction is too simple? Should I use it as a "wrinkle-eraser", rather than decoration?
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


Hi. My oversight there. Your example is more than fine.

The exercise is for the practice of changing the elements of something. Meaning, to make it more flexible in your reality to pierce the veil of your perspective. This can allow you to see and understand how one thing is multiple things.

So rather than looking directly for results in the candle (and its respective elements) we are looking to results in our perspective.

It's not just redecorating or moving your candle from one place to an other because you have identified what elements comprise its existence in your perspective.

In a way you are shaking things up in your perspective. You are defining the way in which the candle interacts with your reality and consciously changing it.

Such practice will expand your perspective (for lack of better terms) because you are learning how to perceive things for more than they appear to be.

You may want to practice with a few more and see if you see any change in your perspective.

This is closely related to how the Genius works. With practice, a book on your table 'becomes' your dream house (after experiencing the logical narrative of it all) because the dream house is the book. (Or, as it may be said, the two values spring from the same perspective and are made of the same substance: perspective.)

So, when you flex your perspective muscles by changing the way your perspective is calculated (so to speak) you are learning how to perceive something for more than it appears to be.

This is the path the Genius takes. The 'morphing' from one thing to an other is a way for you to make sense of it.

I hope this helps, and my apologies for thinking of the two together before.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


It would be far more effective if it was something unique that you created, with little-to-no inherent meaning.
 Quoting: Chaol


I am very confused about the Awareness Expansion Exercise now.

Wasn't that supposed to be done with what surrounds us, keep one value and change the other three?

Some posters mentioned using a comb as a scratcher, or placing a screwdriver in the toothbrush cup. You mentioned the coin example.

Something unique with no inherent meaning is for the Genius, right?
I thought the exercise was a different thing.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


Yes, you can do the awareness expansion exercise with what is around you.

But do the Genius (a separate thing) with something new.

Let me know how it goes.
 Quoting: Chaol


Great.
The wax owl candle was for the exercise, not the Genius.

I kept the symbol (a decorating candle).
Interaction - changed (all elements in bathroom)
Possibility/space - changed (bathroom shelf)
Logic - changed (placing on sink when brushing teeth)

Because it feels as if I simply moved something around (which I constantly do, as I am decluttering and improving the space), maybe the interaction is too simple? Should I use it as a "wrinkle-eraser", rather than decoration?
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


Hi. My oversight there. Your example is more than fine.

The exercise is for the practice of changing the elements of something. Meaning, to make it more flexible in your reality to pierce the veil of your perspective. This can allow you to see and understand how one thing is multiple things.

So rather than looking directly for results in the candle (and its respective elements) we are looking to results in our perspective.

It's not just redecorating or moving your candle from one place to an other because you have identified what elements comprise its existence in your perspective.

In a way you are shaking things up in your perspective. You are defining the way in which the candle interacts with your reality and consciously changing it.

Such practice will expand your perspective (for lack of better terms) because you are learning how to perceive things for more than they appear to be.

You may want to practice with a few more and see if you see any change in your perspective.

This is closely related to how the Genius works. With practice, a book on your table 'becomes' your dream house (after experiencing the logical narrative of it all) because the dream house is the book. (Or, as it may be said, the two values spring from the same perspective and are made of the same substance: perspective.)

So, when you flex your perspective muscles by changing the way your perspective is calculated (so to speak) you are learning how to perceive something for more than it appears to be.

This is the path the Genius takes. The 'morphing' from one thing to an other is a way for you to make sense of it.

I hope this helps, and my apologies for thinking of the two together before.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Yes. And your interacts have an effect on your dreamworld.

Anything you interact with has an effect on what you'd call your past/present/future perspective.

What does your bed represent?
 Quoting: Chaol


Interesting that such a question had me pondering a bit.

The very first answer to that was "rest". But then I realized it's not it. I feel more rested when I lay on the couch, either with the laptop, or watching some TV.

I usually delay going to bed, until the very last minute. So I'd rather say "exhaustion", or deep sleep and dreams.

Thinking further, due to lack of companionship, my current bed/symbol has seen zero sexual activity for a perceived long time, so it's pretty much a cold representation. :( But that's about to change with the use of the Genius! :)

Short of buying an eerie fake boyfriend doll (lol!), I'll start by placing a representation of companionship on it.

I thought of dusting off my old teddy bear, which has been sitting in a dark closet for years. Poor thing. It was my trusted companion and I shared all my thoughts with it, as a child.
 Quoting: Ambra 30715424


May I ask, for how long have you only thought of your bed as a 'last resort' for sleep? (Rather than something you could feel relaxed or comfortable on.)
 Quoting: Chaol


For a very long time. Years.

All technology is in the living room, computer, tv... and everything else I interact with, including the fireplace.

I could implement some changes, and try to read in bed, or do tarot cards spreads. Right now it truly feels as a "last resort"! If I'm awake, I get bored.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


No need for so much extracurricular activity in the bed. It may work better for you to make it the domain of sleepytime. Some of us, from Abe to Polonius and back again, rest more that way.

But I hope your dreams are as you wish.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
May I ask, for how long have you only thought of your bed as a 'last resort' for sleep? (Rather than something you could feel relaxed or comfortable on.)
 Quoting: Chaol


For a very long time. Years.

All technology is in the living room, computer, tv... and everything else I interact with, including the fireplace.

I could implement some changes, and try to read in bed, or do tarot cards spreads. Right now it truly feels as a "last resort"! If I'm awake, I get bored.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


I forgot to mention, that when I rented this place, it came already with some furniture. At the time I didn't mind, as I had planned on staying briefly. Actually, it was ideal not having to get furniture at the time.

The stuff in the bedroom (except for the new mattress) is not mine and does not reflect my taste [huge closet, mirror, chest drawer, etc]. Maybe this aggravates not wanting to spend much waking time there.

I will do small changes, though. Like lamp shades, my own paintings, and such.

The real bedroom will be in the next home. 100% from scratch.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30767611


Some environments may seem foreign, like when we travel.

"Not our usual taste," it can be said.

But it's still of your perspective, and entirely you.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 10:53 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hello!

I have been living in this world for some time now.

I came from a place also named Earth, much like this planet. There are a number of differences between my home and yours.

I thought it would be interesting to share a few things with you that are relatively common knowledge where I am from. My reasons for doing so will probably be more apparent in the future.

* Consciousness does not exist (but relationships do)
* Matter is gravity that has been structured
* We are not human (we are perspectives)
* When the totality of something cannot be grasped, it appears infinite.
* Space is not physical
* There is no "now" or "here", but relationships.

We use a kind of language like you use numbers here. Numbers, representations of abstract concepts, were 'invented' to work more easily with the world around us. Our language is no different.

If it were invented today it would probably be thought of as existing in parallel with science. A new kind of science.

This language also enables the shifting of perspective like a kind of mental technology. Some of you may find it quite interesting.

If anyone is interested in learning more please let me know.

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770


Judging by what you say, I am guessing you're from Canada?

(Looks at flag under name.) Well whadduya know. . .
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Our choices are limited by what we "believe" our choices are. I see where you're coming from, but "free will" (ability to make (any) choice based on the information we ARE aware of) is as I see it, fundamental to our "current" experience of "reality"(within the spectrum of nothing).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Nicely put.

Though this choice could be based on information we are not aware of and no information at all, not just that information that we are aware of.

If our choice was limited by what we believe our choices are then that would mean that we could not choose something outside of our choice. If you asked me if I wanted either a cheeseburger or a hamburger I could respond by going to France. Our choices would not be limited by what we don't believe our choices to be.

Since we can never be "TRULY" self aware (because even what we consider our "self" is outside of awareness) we seem to get information on the relationships this "self" represents, but it's all illusion. When all we experience is illusion, the illusion itself becomes irrelevant because EVERY experience is supported by the framework it provides. So we can tag any experience with "illusion" or "simulation" or "nothing" or "existence" but I just don't see it as useful. I do see tagging experience with "perspective" useful as it allows us to take into account the totality of the most relative relationships that define that perspective.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Yes, I think "nothing" can be quite a useless designation but only up to a point.

Perspective can be more useful. However, this may give us a false picture of reality because it paints a reality as being subject to observation.

This illusion 'creates' perspective.

"What is the price of coffee today?" can elicit a variety of responses considering perspective.

However, as Nothing is the parent of perspective it would probably answer (if it could) that the price of coffee is irrelevant. This may help in remembering and understanding that perspective is flexible because it never reaches its ultimate destination.

I understand what you mean by "free will" being an illusion, I just don't see "free will" and illusion as mutually exclusive systems. Popping from bottle to bottle is what we do automatically as the dominoes fall within the most logical pattern (requiring the least energy or number of interactions). But this automatic "process" by which perspectives cascade through their variants is an expression of the "free will" of the system that houses perspective. Free will (the opportunity to make choice within a limited decision set) is a tool we use to enhance and express our perspective in a way that leads to "deeper" and "richer" opportunities for illusory experience. The illusory concepts of "free will" and "fate" are one in the same because the decisions we "believe" we've made are the decisions we've "always" made and we made them based on what we perceived (albeit illusory) to be our past decisions and their perceived results.

The moment there is opportunity for choice, whether illusory or not, there is "free will" automatically generated (perceived) with in that space.

If what comes next (in our nothing kaleidoscope) is what takes the least energy to come next and we can define how that energy is distributed and the framework in which it flows, then that ability is our perceived "free will". It's a self correcting feedback loop and presupposes time and decision space. Perhaps I am limited by my "current" inability to see beyond my perceived "ability to choose".
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I enjoyed reading your illustration of how there is free will in this illusion.

It would probably be my explanation of 'free will' were it not for the nature of perspective.

Because it is all an illusion, the illusion does not really matter (as you've explained). In this, there is no illusion.

However, if all choices are all ready made (e.g., everything exists right now) there is no free will because it is irrelevant.

Making a choice implies that the separation of events in time is valid and true. It also implies a separation of you from what you choose.

But you and what you choose is the same. And 'both' are of your perspective.

If time is more of a function of the way the brain interprets reality than an absolute truth in the universe then 'choice' is meaningless.

What happens when you press a key on your keyboard?

We could say that we choose to press a key and it is done.

We could also say that we are trying to perceive of nothing, an act which dictates that every possibility be simultaneously created and experienced infinitely.

Because of the nature of truth, each of the two answers is as valid as the other.

Both are useful. (But only the first one is apple pie.)

You've given me something to think about.


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