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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Marshwiggle

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12/26/2012 07:15 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
How is there perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


* We are not human (we are perspectives)

 Quoting: chaol 183770


Does your girlfriend know what you are?
 Quoting: QueenJay


Human? Yes :)

 Quoting: Chaol


In truth, Chaol sometimes contradicts himself :)
 Quoting: Marshwiggle


Are you using the above as an example of a supposed contradiction?

"Does your girlfriend know what you are?" is pretty ambiguous.

I don't mind clarifying a contradition, as long as the question is clear.
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, I saw this as a contradiction. You originally said we are not human and then you said your girlfriend knows you to be human.
I don't know what Queen Jay meant by the question.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 07:23 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
About doing something one normally wouldn't do: I (male, 44 years old) took up stitching today. ;)
 Quoting: tuuuuur


Hehe never too late to learn ;)
Unit3

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12/26/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
About doing something one normally wouldn't do: I (male, 44 years old) took up stitching today. ;)
 Quoting: tuuuuur




Go for it, LOL!

Goofy Thum
Unit3

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12/26/2012 08:00 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
hey chaol,

or if anyone could help.
it would be greatly appreciated.

How do I prevent myself from perceiving violence and harm and threats?

I want to live in a utopian world, with peace, prosperity, and happiness; however somehow, negativity and crappy things/harmful things keep coming into my perception, as I perceive what other cruel Humans are doing.

please give me advice and suggestions as to how to remove ALL negativity from my perception.

thank you truly, from my heart.

best
regards

and thanks for giving a helping hand to your fellow Humans. As I am sure all appreciate it, as well as myself.


keep up the good work!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30916785



Hi,

We are learning to change our perceptions by using the things Chaol is teaching us. So, it's a matter of learning how you change them to see things differently.

I don't know how effective I'll be with this information, but I share the same dream as you in regards to violence. It's one of the things that motivates me to learn from Chaol.

Thanks for asking. It will be great to see what Chaol says.hf
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 08:05 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
bump
Unit3

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12/26/2012 09:44 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Found an interesting thing. It's called a "brain tuner."

[link to altered-states.net]

Pete Townsend of The Who got off heroine with this and it stimulates cell growth in the brain:

"5 Built in frequencies Plus the Full BT6-BT9-BT11 Frequencies

Frequencies 0.5 Hz The 0.5 Hz. setting DELTA brainwave frequency, normally associated with deep sleep and release of deeply embedded stress patterns. Pain relief (temporary) - natural opiates released; lymphatics assisted Reported Mitosis reduction or inhibition of rogue cell activity; Stress buster
1.5Hz Pain, Quiet sleep
more
5.00Hz In the Palaces of Memory they suggest 5hz as being the optimum learning frequency.
Even as you read these words, a tiny portion of your brain is physically changing. New connections are being sprouted -- a circuit that will create a stab of recognition if you encounter the words again Read: In the Palaces of Memory

Increased DNA synthesis; cellular signalling; repair and healing

7.83Hz The 7.83Hz ALPHA THETA( border) brainwave frequency and is associated with a relaxed, but very focused mental state
100.Hz Feel better, Blast those moods

Plus the Full BT6-BT9-BT11 Frequencies

Current 10 to 600 µA
Waveform Bipolar asymmetric rectangular waves, 50% duty cycle
Earclips High Quality Ear clips Supplied
Intensity Control 20 Different Steps
Light Weight and fully portable

Possible range of benefits are based on 20 years of experience and observation

Reduced Pain
Ability to Focus
Lucid Dreaming
Deep Relaxation
Alzheimer's Disease
Chronic headaches
Centering and Calmness
Reduced Nervous Energy
Deeper, more Restful Sleep
Better Sexual Performance
Improved Mental Abilities
Traumatic head injuries
Short Term Memory Improvement
Increased Mental and Physical Energy
Reduced Negative Behavior Patterns
Heightened Alpha Brainwave Patterns
Improved Attention Span and Concentration"
Chaol

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12/26/2012 09:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I seek to expand my "awareness", I am looking to perceive a richer resolution of experience in each "moment" to allow me to get "more" out of my perspective and I seek to use that to increase the "quality of life" for myself and those I care about. I've found in some of my trials, I became less tolerant or patient with the very ones I'm looking to protect/enhance. This seems to happen because as I expand my understanding I am more aware of their intent and the relationships they hold within my perspective. This (at times) leads me to dismiss their concerns as if they're trivial (yet to them they're obviously not). If I am to assist and nurture them in order to "enhance" them and "protect" them (from my perspective), I cannot dismiss their perceived concerns (as trivial as I perceive them to be).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Curious.. do you think they could be resisting how you think they should be enhanced?

Maybe they will be relative to your new self on their own terms, not ones that you've planned.

I haven't experienced your situation, so I'm only guessing.
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, I do. On this level, we get along and work toward mutual happiness and benefit. My curiosity has led me down many rabbit holes and I find within them a common theme, they're interesting to the geometry of relationships that I "care about" (value) but irrelevant. In the "next level"(all levels) that "working towards mutual benefit and happiness" may be rendered as working against each other (as that dynamic is working now through my inability to properly explain my perspective or inspire others to seek to experience it).

My desire to bring them along in nice packages neatly marked fragile is seemingly beyond my ability. I think back to what you said about most of your population choosing to not use (or even bother to understand) the language of perspective (consciously) and I cringe. I believe that I am able to perceive a subjective universe rich with experience but I will be unable to share it. I feel like I am building a massive playground rich with possibility and the ones I'll invite to come play will ignore it altogether (as they do not technically exist beyond my perception of them anyway).

I don't want my wife to be properly represented as a "carnival ride" within perspective. I want to transplant her into my perspective, I want her to be who she is, making the decisions she does and be able to ride it "herself". It seems to me that if we perceive as a "god" does or as a player does via an RTS game, we find ourselves incapable of interacting (fairly) on a first person basis, whether we are playing a character in first person or not. It seems that I would only be able to properly interact with someone I perceive to be at the same level.

What I mean is that a chess player can never have a proper interaction with his queen on the board, that interaction is reserved for the other player. I do not want my wife to be reduced to a chess piece (yet, I feel as if in some ways both she and I already have been). I seek to allow her (and the others I care about) to continue to play.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Yes, I think it's a gamble. There's no easy way to predict if someone will be a part of the new perspective.

But we can see if we are (still, or more or less) attracted to them as we move through perspective. That can give us some idea, I think.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 09:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
If I understand you correctly, wouldn't choice then, be another "flavor" of perspective like Vanilla or the color Orange? Where we are within the bottle-matrix, we find ourselves capable of making decisions. In other perspectives we function more like a table or a chair, meeting only certain functions but have a very limited (imperceptible from this view point) ability to choose? Yet here we have a rich (perceived) illusion of choice and within that ability to choose, we have the (perceived) illusion of "free will". Much in the same way the table senses the moisture of the full cup of cold water set upon it (the minor warping of the wood because of condensation) and the memory that implies. Yet we have additional technology (a self adjusting feedback loop that presupposes time and the opportunity for choice) to perceive as if we "act" upon the "memory" we're infected with. Within that is there not "free will" as illusory as it is? It's almost as if that elusive "Truth" with the capital "T" is outside anything we are ever capable of perceiving and lies outside of the illusion we are born to.

Last night I had an elaborate lucid dream which included what I perceived to be two types of "alien" one was traditionally angelic and seemed to be assisting the humans who were under attack by what I perceived to be traditionally demonic. Within the dream I had to defend a few people from what would have been collateral damage (as the two seemed more concerned about destroying each others forces than destroying or protecting my perceived environment and kin). By telekinetically throwing several husks of destroyed vehicles in the way I was able to save a few people and by that dream-sign (use of telekinesis) I became lucid. Now I had intended before sleep to find a "dream" entity and discuss the nature of reality and expanding my perspective but I chose to fly/teleport about exploring, helping and saving people. I had forgot my original intent as it was no longer relative. Is this what you mean by the "non-existense" of "free will"? Once my perspective changes so too does my intent and therefor my freewill is negated?

Thank you again.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I think vanilla or orange would be values in perspective, whereas 'choice' would be something outside of the reality that arises from between representations.

It seems more like part of the logical narrative than a flavour. Something that we use to make sense of how we got from point A to point B.

If I say that I got into my car and ended up in Colorado Springs a few hours later then a logical narrative would fill all the blanks of this two perspectives (for ease of illustration). Just as an object appears solid as my mind fills in the gaps to make sense of the object.

So 'free will' may be something that arises from us to make sense of our transition through perspectives.

Interesting to think about.
 Quoting: Chaol


hf

Thank you.

When I questioned "If I understand you correctly, wouldn't choice then, be another "flavor" of perspective like Vanilla or the color Orange?"... I guess I meant to ask "wouldn't choice then, be another framework for perspective, like our ability to perceive the taste of vanilla or see the color orange?"

The bolded statement answers that question perfectly. And I interpret it as a "yes".
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I suppose I was alluding to choice being how we make sense of our 'transition' from one perspective to an other, especially where what is most relative to us is concerned (for example, our body). Whereas perspective comes from the relationship between the values.

What is most relative to us, such as our bodies, we seem to choose.

What is relative to us, such as our immediate environment, we also seem to choose.

As things become less relative the less our 'free will' seems to influence it. We don't need to make sense of something that is not so relative. We need only make sense of what is relative to us.

But whether something is near or far, it is all the same perspective.
Not-Chaol
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12/26/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol,

Can we please move on to some advanced uses of genius, ecsys, visualization, etc. Thank you.

Not-Chaol
Chaol

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12/26/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I think that my response can be summed up as, "point B is never clearly defined".
As we cannot perceive of something directly, so too would point B not be perceived directly. Thus, we cannot clearly define it.
 Quoting: Chaol

That is how I see it too. I wrote it to Unit3 using different words:

"We think that point B is in the realm of our imagination. But this realm is blurry to us. But since we live in our imagination/dreams (our subjective world, as we call it), the realm of reality also looks blurry (because we always see reality from the perspective of our dream).
So, it seems that defining point A is the hard bit."


To put it an other way, if you want to drive to Arlington you could:

1) Ask questions and provide answers consciously, perhaps by looking at a map

2) Get in the car and go somewhere specific. It doesn't matter where.
I am suggesting #2, with the important point to have a clear idea in mind about any destination. It need not be Arlington in order to get to Arlington.
 Quoting: Chaol


Nowhere in my posts suggested what one could do if he wants to be in Arlington (asking Q&As, looking at the map etc).

I wrote that we need Q&As to produce "Arlington".
After that, our job is done and the Genius will take over.

No need to talk about #1 and/or #2.

However, I honestly see the value in helping us remember that B is here with us, at point A.
Maybe asking Q&As about B will somehow reveal where A is. Where we stand "now". And then we may not need to define anything. We will just float towards it.
 Quoting: panoukos


<<So, it seems that defining point A is the hard bit.>>

Indeed, though it may be difficult to understand that for most of us.

But "point B" is a value in the now and here. (And our perspective of point B will be different when we get there.)

Defining point A or B is impossible because of the nature of perspective. We have only to define something and work with it as though it was either.

So, that's why I say the questions and answers are irrelevant. They need not be relevant to be useful.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:05 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


(The following is provided for illustration only...)

We know very little compared with our own subconscious.

When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious.

We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there.

Our subconscious asks no questions nor provides any answers.

The questions are like queues for our subconscious to interpret. We can then interpret the "result".

The waking mind asks the questions and interprets what may be seen as answers.

When you say, "So, the whatever perspective we each currently experience comes from the whichever answers we have given to our whichever questions we asked in the first place." we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind.

For, "dont ask how to win the lottery, ask how you can have an abundance of money instead, for example", [I don't think this is a direct quote, but I will respond as though it was] it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model.

I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"

The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective.
 Quoting: Chaol



I love illustrative examples. Thanks.

So, we are teaching our waking mind what the subconscious already knows. Since we don't know how we use the Genius, are we actually functioning only through the subconscious currently?
 Quoting: Unit3


You could also say that we are that which makes up the subconscious.

It's filled with all kinds of everything. Parts that know, parts that don't know.

We are the story of a part of it, and it is us.

The cells in your hand are asking the same questions :)

Iow, what's the difference in the waking mind that knows it wants to get to Point B, but doesn't know how it happens....as compared to the waking mind that does know how it happens.
 Quoting: Unit3


Practically-speaking...

Get to point B; waking mind does not know = 4 years, 3 months (exmaple)

Get to point B; waking mind knows how = 1 week

Get to point B; waking mind really knows and understands = a few nanoseconds


In the same way, your body "understands" things that the cells in your hand do not. It is experiencing time and space differently because of this understanding.

The understanding, however, is not a mental process. It is the relationship of values in its perspective.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol



Quoting Chaol: "Parts that know and parts that don't know."

I see this for sure. The way I'm expanding my perspective is trying a lot of new stuff. I think the most interesting discovery I've made is how easily I consciously make things unconscious...without realizing I"m even doing so!!!!!!

When I took the walk the other day where I focused on things I didn't like, I was shocked at how easily I made sure I didn't notice those things.

Today, I looked for new life in the things I love (per your suggestion) while I walked, and was amazed again at the conscious repression into unconsciousness....and also how to retrieve from the unconsciousness by noticing..... instead of sinking something out of "view."

I listened to a car drive by and kept listening as it went down the street....and could hear it almost a block away!!!!! Just because I chose to continue listening instead of sinking the sound into unconsciousness. Pretty neat!

Thank you for the example above of waking mind and really waking mind getting to point B! Very nice. hf

The body only knows things I don't know as long as I keep my perspective that way. correct? I'm stumbling over your statement: "It is the relationship of values in its perspective." This makes it sound as if the body has a different perspective to mine.
 Quoting: Unit3


Yes, the body has a different perspective (though again there is only one perspective that, when used, appears to be infinite).

There's an entire life in just one breath. Can you imagine living and working your entire life towards the purpose that the body that you unknowingly help to make up could take a single breath?

The cells know not what they do from your point of view because from their point of view it is something very different. They dream about you as you dream about your other lives, to be sure ;)

It is translated into something useful and relative for each
perspective.

We live and work our entire lives toward a purpose that we know not, and see it very differently than how our 'expanded perspective' would see it.

The perspectives are equally valid, again, because each is relative to what surrounds it.

I don't want to give the impression that if you have this 'expanded perspective' that you will miss all of the joys of life... walking along a path or having interesting conversations with friends. It is just that you experience so much more of these walks and conversations and would have a new kind of walk and conversation that would be completely fulfilling in your life and seem to take forever. (But from our now-human perspective this kind of life may be hundreds or thousands years-long.)
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
In my post, I believe I defined my (illusory) obstacle and you've confirmed this for me. I believe this is rooted in the fear of losing (or belief that I will render irrelevant) that which I "cherish" (my precious).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Hope and Fear is what obstruct us from seeing clearly what is around us. Bear in mind though, that giving up Hope is much, much harder than beating Fear.

But which human would have given up Hope altogether for the sake of "seeing things clearly?" or to beat Fear?

Who would have given up "life" or "existence" in exchange for "nothing"? why?

But even if there is, how did he do it?
 Quoting: panoukos


Hope and fear.. both articles of resistance not so unlike the other.

When we fear something we are still interacting with it, drawing it nearer.

When we hope something we are interacting with it, also, but it a way that speaks "that is not us", continuing the illusion of separation indefinitely.

Basically, letting go of fear is the realization that you are what you fear. What was feared only seems that way because of the resistance to a part of yourself (a process that creates all kinds of 'demons', so to speak) rather than more of what it actually is.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:11 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Awwwwww! blwkss

Well, if I drink something, it won't stay in that form for long. It would probably be better to work with sunlight instead. We'll see but thanks for exploring this possibility with me. ;o)
 Quoting: Unit3


Indeed, far easier to work with sunlight.

We don't play with it enough, I suppose.
Chaol

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12/26/2012 10:33 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


If it is programming, are you capable of changing the program?

If so, could it mean that the program is being re-created now? Or is at least able to be changed now?

If so, then who or what is doing that?
 Quoting: Chaol


I feel like I have changed a great deal of the programming I was taught. I understand this is something I am perceiving now so yes, the program is being re-created and/or changed now.

Yes, I would like to know who is changing the programming, LOL! I would like to know who is learning to use the Genius, who has a subconscious and who is perceiving. heh!

It's still hard to see it all as nothing or as illusion. I understand I feel I exist because I perceive and that's about it. The rest, I'm waiting for a lightbulb moment.
 Quoting: Unit3


Who is reading this right now?

Can you imagine the endless physical, electrical, mathematical, and mechanical processes that you have control of right now because you are able to represent those complex processes?

No one is doing that but you.

You are capable of it because you inherently know how to represent anything and then work with those representations.
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, I can imagine all the endless things going on right now as I read this and it's because I have control of them....even though I don't consciously know how. But how does this tell me who I am? A mind?
 Quoting: Unit3


You are the most beautiful and wondrous thing that could ever be imagined.

You are Something born of nothing-in-particular.

How amazing is that!?

You are that which takes an infinity of perceptions to try and reproduce.

All of the sonnets, birds, poems, clouds, hats, and swords in the world try, time and time again, to capture your essence. But cannot.

You are the life of life. The beauty of beauty. The wonder of wonder. That which things things try to be but cannot. That is how awesome you are.

They try through all manner of drama, seemingly to create a universe of things that, sadly, cannot capture even a small fragment of the impossible-to-perceive.

Although these things can be beautiful and not, happy and sad, at times thrilling or entirely boring, and everything in between, it is really just a distraction from your essence.

Who are you? You are whomever you are, whomever is possible to be.

But these things are confusing. Who wants to be nothing-in-particular when we can have the illusion of something-in-particular.

And so here you are. Impossible to define, impossible to perceive, impossible to merely think of.. but how wonderfully awesome is it that we can try.

And "try" is this essence. It is all we can do, and it is enough to create an endless universe of yourself, exploding at every moment and filling it again with an entirely new outlook of yourself.

But this "yourself" is not the you that wears clothes and eats food. It is YOU. The most relative thing to you. Your clothes do not illustrate this. The dishes on the table do not capture this. It is so wonderfully hidden because it is this nothing-in-particular, yet everything that could possibly be.

Are you alone? It would seem from my description that you are. What else is there when you are everything?

But the secret of this nothing-in-particular is that you have created an entire universe of perspective because this "alone" is irrelevant!

As soon as "nothing" is irrelevant it 'creates' SOMETHING. How can something be irrelevant when there is nothing else with which to compare?

So here you are.

"Alone in the universe..." is only something to be sad about if there was once two and now one.

Now there is an infinity of you so that it is impossible. And this beauty, these hats, these endless swords, and all the poems that will ever be written are a part of something entirely wondrous and beautiful.

Think of it as a gift from nowhere. It is only an illusion if there is something 'real' with which to compare it. So this story, these epic dramas we call existence is all that needs to be and is the most real thing that could ever possibly be.

You are all that you need to be right now. When I say that everything exists here and now I mean that there is no need to be anyone else, go anyplace else, do anything else, other than what you are doing right now.

Until this YOU perceives something else.

In one word, the you I have illustrated is Perfection.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 11:00 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


I feel like I have changed a great deal of the programming I was taught. I understand this is something I am perceiving now so yes, the program is being re-created and/or changed now.

Yes, I would like to know who is changing the programming, LOL! I would like to know who is learning to use the Genius, who has a subconscious and who is perceiving. heh!

It's still hard to see it all as nothing or as illusion. I understand I feel I exist because I perceive and that's about it. The rest, I'm waiting for a lightbulb moment.
 Quoting: Unit3


Who is reading this right now?

Can you imagine the endless physical, electrical, mathematical, and mechanical processes that you have control of right now because you are able to represent those complex processes?

No one is doing that but you.

You are capable of it because you inherently know how to represent anything and then work with those representations.
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, I can imagine all the endless things going on right now as I read this and it's because I have control of them....even though I don't consciously know how. But how does this tell me who I am? A mind?
 Quoting: Unit3


You are the most beautiful and wondrous thing that could ever be imagined.

You are Something born of nothing-in-particular.

How amazing is that!?

You are that which takes an infinity of perceptions to try and reproduce.

All of the sonnets, birds, poems, clouds, hats, and swords in the world try, time and time again, to capture your essence. But cannot.

You are the life of life. The beauty of beauty. The wonder of wonder. That which things things try to be but cannot. That is how awesome you are.

They try through all manner of drama, seemingly to create a universe of things that, sadly, cannot capture even a small fragment of the impossible-to-perceive.

Although these things can be beautiful and not, happy and sad, at times thrilling or entirely boring, and everything in between, it is really just a distraction from your essence.

Who are you? You are whomever you are, whomever is possible to be.

But these things are confusing. Who wants to be nothing-in-particular when we can have the illusion of something-in-particular.

And so here you are. Impossible to define, impossible to perceive, impossible to merely think of.. but how wonderfully awesome is it that we can try.

And "try" is this essence. It is all we can do, and it is enough to create an endless universe of yourself, exploding at every moment and filling it again with an entirely new outlook of yourself.

But this "yourself" is not the you that wears clothes and eats food. It is YOU. The most relative thing to you. Your clothes do not illustrate this. The dishes on the table do not capture this. It is so wonderfully hidden because it is this nothing-in-particular, yet everything that could possibly be.

Are you alone? It would seem from my description that you are. What else is there when you are everything?

But the secret of this nothing-in-particular is that you have created an entire universe of perspective because this "alone" is irrelevant!

As soon as "nothing" is irrelevant it 'creates' SOMETHING. How can something be irrelevant when there is nothing else with which to compare?

So here you are.

"Alone in the universe..." is only something to be sad about if there was once two and now one.

Now there is an infinity of you so that it is impossible. And this beauty, these hats, these endless swords, and all the poems that will ever be written are a part of something entirely wondrous and beautiful.

Think of it as a gift from nowhere. It is only an illusion if there is something 'real' with which to compare it. So this story, these epic dramas we call existence is all that needs to be and is the most real thing that could ever possibly be.

You are all that you need to be right now. When I say that everything exists here and now I mean that there is no need to be anyone else, go anyplace else, do anything else, other than what you are doing right now.

Until this YOU perceives something else.

In one word, the you I have illustrated is Perfection.
 Quoting: Chaol


This is perfect:)
Chaol

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12/27/2012 01:26 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
AWESOME!!!!!! This is cool. Okay, so I'd also like to pick up a pen and write when I read stuff during dream time, so that I might have a better change of remembering it when awake. Hmmmmmm, so my taking notes from what we chat about here is an example of that, maybe?

 Quoting: Unit3


Whatever you are doing now you are doing it both worlds.

You interpret it in one way in one world, and an other way in an other world.

As you write it down in your dream you are also writing it down in your waking world (however, this would probably be translated different in your waking world. Perhaps you'd take a boat ride and have a revelation whilst looking at the sheets of waves).

Also, are you talking about the dream where 3 of us in separate locations, in a 24 hour period experienced a similar type dream? And we haven't realized the value of that accomplishment? It was one event, right?

See, I want to have that happen again and again until it's my reality!!!!
 Quoting: Unit3


There are multiple such instances.

Even one would be a world-changing feat. But it may take some time to let it sink in.
 Quoting: Chaol



Can write a genius or a word to help it sink in faster?
 Quoting: Unit3


Sure. Come up with a word with a meaning of "shared dreaming" and use it.
Chaol

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12/27/2012 01:27 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Wow! (the bold statement)

What I'd really like to do is make the dreamtime experiences, my reality in waking time. That's why I was experimenting with symbols from dreamtime when I found your threads, and started incorporating what I'm learning here with what I was doing.

Edit: I need to clarify this. I am trying to integrate people like who are in this thread into my dreamtime and make my dreamtime my waking time. Iow, I think I'm trying to perceive the 2 worlds merged.
 Quoting: Unit3


hmm.. are you sure you're ready for a full-on merged experience?

I need several days to adjust (sometimes weeks) and I'm a 'frequent flyer'.

For someone who has no idea what it might entail, an experience that is not preceded by years of introduction and matriculation would entirely shock you.

I am here to endlessly debrief you! lol

It's so shocking that you need to translate 100% of it into something that you will accept just to experience it. (Meaning that what we call our dreams are 100% of our waking mind's re-interpretation of our dreams.)

Put it this way.. after 3 years we finally move from the basics (lesson 1) to more advanced Ecsys (lesson 1.01)

One thing that the dreamworld has plenty of is time.

Let it cook a little more
 Quoting: Chaol



No, I"m not sure I'm ready. But, I'm ready to move on from this perspective and I'm doing all I know to make it happen. And I mean, I'm putting a lot into it.

I don't mind taking a long trip but I'd like some REALLY good sights along the way, heh!

Okay, I'll let it cook a little more.

And I hugely appreciate your willingness as a tour guide. ;o) What is your idea of what the merger will be like? Won't it change both worlds significantly?
 Quoting: Unit3


We will see.

It is happening all ready.

Things are merging at every level.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So I perceive "my" world as generations that differ? And I perceive you saying that in your world hot and cold water have different tones?

It's all my perspective? And I can change it to one where "my" world is one of abundance for all, with crazy, awesome technology and abilities to travel the universe with friends?
 Quoting: Unit3


If you ever find a world with "abundance for all" please let me know where it is =)
 Quoting: Chaol


It's in our subconscious. Everything is here now. How could it be otherwise?
 Quoting: Unit3


heh.. yep. Got me on that one.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/27/2012 01:29 AM
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


You can change it all you like, as long as you use it properly.
 Quoting: Chaol


And by properly, you mean how we set it up to use it?

BAkegh means my experience of estatic wonder and I will use it every time I feel it? That kind of thing?
 Quoting: Unit3


Yes. Just make sure you use it just as you would any other word, not just think it.
 Quoting: Chaol


And do we speak this word in a sentence to others for effectiveness...or is it okay to just talk to ourselves? LOL!
 Quoting: Unit3


It may work better to say the word by itself with others around, such as:

"I can't believe shoosta!" = wtf?

"Shoosta!" = probably more acceptable for others. They may even take it up.

Unless you have very open-minded friends, in which case anything goes.
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...


Perhaps the only thing to ponder is to think of how you feel when you look into his eyes. It may sound corny, but the point is to get away from doing things that your Genius could do far better. Just give it an idea and it will take care of the rest.
 Quoting: Chaol


For my Genius, I put the desire is to receive flowers from my true love. I didn't put anything else but I would like someone close to my age. I didn't know how to insert that and figured it would mess things up anyway.
 Quoting: Unit3


I would suggest just "flowers" and then going from there.

"true love" is a very nebulous concept and I think would be quite difficult to represent.

That's not to say that you won't experience it using the Genius. I'm just suggesting you let your Genius figure out how it happens for you.
 Quoting: Chaol




Okay, let me tell you something interesting and see what you think. I saw your post so I went to my Genius and changed it to just flowers...I took out true love.

But, I am wondering if I need to change the Genius since I changed the original desire for it. And, I noticed 2 of those links I posted re: Olaf, have since been removed from the GLP database.

Do you think this is related to me changing my Genius? heh! And do I need to re-write the Genius since I now changed my desire to just flowers?

Thanks
 Quoting: Unit3


As a rule of thumb, any time your symbol is changed you should also change the other elements (in order of change-necessity): Logic, Interaction, Potential Energy

Meaning that if you change your symbol changing the Potential Energy is less important than changing the Logic.

If your intent changes then I would suggest you start over with new elements. They need not be drastically different. Perhaps a slight change is enough (provided you have not used it that much).
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Me too. I'm headed out right now and will do so. Thanks again.

And, the thread links I posted just a while ago, take care of 2 things:

Expanding perception through doing something different
Making up words and sentences

Plus, I think Olaf might be my true love, LOL!!!!!!

Edit: Will answer other posts when I get back. Thanks.
 Quoting: Unit3


You may not realize what a tremendous breakthrough this could be for you.

Yes, Olaf is your true love!

When you see what you want in anything, then you've discovered something amazing.
 Quoting: Chaol



Thank you Chaol. I'm doing all I can to follow your suggestions. hf

Now, what I'd like to know is you said this COULD be a breakthrough for me. Is there something you would suggest for me at this point to make it a breakthrough?
 Quoting: Unit3


As you've just put it, "It's in our subconscious. Everything is here now. How could it be otherwise?"

When you consider any perception the one you seek then you are considering the nature of perspective.

Then your Genius can show you the path to what is all ready seen.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A few random thoughts regarding this thread:

I found the concept of everything arising from nothing to be initially off putting and a bit disturbing. "Nothing" has a rather negative connotation in common use. When I reconsider it to be "no-thing" it becomes much more palatable.

In a similar vain, I find the concept of all of what we experience to be an "illusion" to be rather negative as well, much as though you had said it was a "counterfit" experience. You could say that what we experience is an idea, and that would be more positive or you could say it is an "expression" and neither of these would carry the negative baggage that illusion does.

It would seem that the idea of the "genius" or subconcious equates to "God", yes?

By knowing God, we are promised a qualitative change in our experience which is to say we gain "joy" or the "peace that passeth understanding" what Chaol is describing is a way to gain more of the same experience more quickly with no commensurate qualitative change which seems a bit hollow.

I am not meaning to be completely critical, I keep coming back to this thread because it is the most fascinating one on GLP!

Cheers, and Happy New Year!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12844162


Earlier in this thread I've used nothing-in-particular, which is probably more accurate.

It is not my goal to use language that is seen as positive. (I can't say I know much about what that might be, anyway.) But I also don't want to write too much (haha.. somewhat kidding) so I say "nothing" for short.

However, to say it is an expression or an idea would not convey what I am trying to express.

I think "composite" would be more accurate, though I don't want to use too many terms that seem technical. I try to write for everyone and no-one-in-particular.

Genius would not equate to a more political or cultural (?) term like 'god'. The word carries too much weight and many implications.

I experience joy in my life to be sure, but I do not write about "joy" or the "peace that passeth understanding". We are free to choose how to interpret our own experience (thanks, Jesse!). To me, a nice cold pizza is a joyful experience but perhaps others are looking for something more substantial.

So I prefer to discuss tools that can be used for anything-at-all. You can decide what to do with it.

(I don't mind any criticality. I look forward to it, actually.)

Here's to an exciting 2013!
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
hey chaol,

or if anyone could help.
it would be greatly appreciated.

How do I prevent myself from perceiving violence and harm and threats?

I want to live in a utopian world, with peace, prosperity, and happiness; however somehow, negativity and crappy things/harmful things keep coming into my perception, as I perceive what other cruel Humans are doing.

please give me advice and suggestions as to how to remove ALL negativity from my perception.

thank you truly, from my heart.

best
regards

and thanks for giving a helping hand to your fellow Humans. As I am sure all appreciate it, as well as myself.


keep up the good work!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30916785


Hi.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience. We'll try to find out what's going on.

May I ask, do you think there is negativity in your perceptions, or negativity in your interpretation?

If you are perceiving something negative would it be the same perception for everyone?
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
How is there perspective without consciousness?
 Quoting: Unit3


* We are not human (we are perspectives)

 Quoting: chaol 183770


...


Human? Yes :)

 Quoting: Chaol


In truth, Chaol sometimes contradicts himself :)
 Quoting: Marshwiggle


Are you using the above as an example of a supposed contradiction?

"Does your girlfriend know what you are?" is pretty ambiguous.

I don't mind clarifying a contradition, as long as the question is clear.
 Quoting: Chaol


Yes, I saw this as a contradiction. You originally said we are not human and then you said your girlfriend knows you to be human.
I don't know what Queen Jay meant by the question.
 Quoting: Marshwiggle


heh.. I thought the question, "Does your girlfriend know who you are?" was an amusing one.

Yes, I am human.

But I am also not human. As not-human as you are.

It depends on the context, I suppose.

As I've mentioned on the Ecsys website:

Our physical body is a massive collection of both physical and non-physical consciousness. (In a similar manner, our mind operates in both physical and non-physical stages.) Approximately 100 trillion bacterial cells, each with its own individual consciousness and thoughts, inhabit our body. We have 10 times more bacterial cells in our body than human cells. What we refer to as human DNA actually has more than 1,000 times more microbial genes than what we think of as human genes. We are, in reality, not human.

As soon as we are born, bacteria move in. They stake claims in our digestive and respiratory tracts, our teeth, our skin. They establish increasingly complex communities, like a forest that gradually takes over a clearing. By the time we’re a few years old, these communities have matured, and we carry them with us, more or less, for our entire lives. Our bodies harbor 100 trillion bacterial cells, outnumbering our human cells 10 to one. It’s easy to ignore this astonishing fact.


So we call ourselves human when we are not.

The answer depends on how deep the question seems to want to go, I suppose.

Does she know about who I am? And what I did last summer? Yes.

Am I human in my other life? As human as you are now.

But she does not know that I post here.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol,

Can we please move on to some advanced uses of genius, ecsys, visualization, etc. Thank you.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Not-Chaol 5877556


Certainly.

What do you think the next sub-topic of discussion should be about, specifically?

For my next magic trick I will try to pull the Chaol out of not-Chaol. So that we can see how we are each within one-another, starting with not-Chaol.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/27/2012 04:42 AM
Jesse Sovoda
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12/27/2012 06:01 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A few random thoughts regarding this thread:

I found the concept of everything arising from nothing to be initially off putting and a bit disturbing. "Nothing" has a rather negative connotation in common use. When I reconsider it to be "no-thing" it becomes much more palatable.

In a similar vain, I find the concept of all of what we experience to be an "illusion" to be rather negative as well, much as though you had said it was a "counterfit" experience. You could say that what we experience is an idea, and that would be more positive or you could say it is an "expression" and neither of these would carry the negative baggage that illusion does.

It would seem that the idea of the "genius" or subconcious equates to "God", yes?

By knowing God, we are promised a qualitative change in our experience which is to say we gain "joy" or the "peace that passeth understanding" what Chaol is describing is a way to gain more of the same experience more quickly with no commensurate qualitative change which seems a bit hollow.

I am not meaning to be completely critical, I keep coming back to this thread because it is the most fascinating one on GLP!

Cheers, and Happy New Year!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12844162


Earlier in this thread I've used nothing-in-particular, which is probably more accurate.

It is not my goal to use language that is seen as positive. (I can't say I know much about what that might be, anyway.) But I also don't want to write too much (haha.. somewhat kidding) so I say "nothing" for short.

However, to say it is an expression or an idea would not convey what I am trying to express.

I think "composite" would be more accurate, though I don't want to use too many terms that seem technical. I try to write for everyone and no-one-in-particular.

Genius would not equate to a more political or cultural (?) term like 'god'. The word carries too much weight and many implications.

I experience joy in my life to be sure, but I do not write about "joy" or the "peace that passeth understanding". We are free to choose how to interpret our own experience (thanks, Jesse!). To me, a nice cold pizza is a joyful experience but perhaps others are looking for something more substantial.

So I prefer to discuss tools that can be used for anything-at-all. You can decide what to do with it.

(I don't mind any criticality. I look forward to it, actually.)

Here's to an exciting 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol


Cheers Chaol. (thank you for the thank you and for "coincidentally" being listed in Malaysia for your post, as my wife's family is "from Malaysia")

Somehow your thread retains it's excitement and I find myself constantly checking it (whenever I have the spare time) as if I am reading a book I cannot put down but I am waiting for the next page to be written. I've been experiencing meditation and my dreams in much the same way. On the flip-side, I Work an 8:00 am to 4:30 pm day job as a customer service representative for a health insurance company (I see the job as fairly Ironic) and I've done it for over 10 years now. I look forward (lol I know (intellectually) looking forward is a waste(hope), but I just can't seem to shed what I perceive to be the foundation of my physical wealth and stability) to the day that I can put my "day job" behind me and move on to a career that will feel much like experiencing the unfolding of this thread, my dreams, personal life and meditation.

Here's to an exciting 2013, indeed.
Maybe... you are all powerful... all knowing... forever present in all ways... you've chosen to forget... remember?
Unit3

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12/27/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I think that my response can be summed up as, "point B is never clearly defined".
As we cannot perceive of something directly, so too would point B not be perceived directly. Thus, we cannot clearly define it.
 Quoting: Chaol

That is how I see it too. I wrote it to Unit3 using different words:

"We think that point B is in the realm of our imagination. But this realm is blurry to us. But since we live in our imagination/dreams (our subjective world, as we call it), the realm of reality also looks blurry (because we always see reality from the perspective of our dream).
So, it seems that defining point A is the hard bit."


To put it an other way, if you want to drive to Arlington you could:

1) Ask questions and provide answers consciously, perhaps by looking at a map

2) Get in the car and go somewhere specific. It doesn't matter where.
I am suggesting #2, with the important point to have a clear idea in mind about any destination. It need not be Arlington in order to get to Arlington.
 Quoting: Chaol


Nowhere in my posts suggested what one could do if he wants to be in Arlington (asking Q&As, looking at the map etc).

I wrote that we need Q&As to produce "Arlington".
After that, our job is done and the Genius will take over.

No need to talk about #1 and/or #2.

However, I honestly see the value in helping us remember that B is here with us, at point A.
Maybe asking Q&As about B will somehow reveal where A is. Where we stand "now". And then we may not need to define anything. We will just float towards it.
 Quoting: panoukos


<<So, it seems that defining point A is the hard bit.>>

Indeed, though it may be difficult to understand that for most of us.

But "point B" is a value in the now and here. (And our perspective of point B will be different when we get there.)

Defining point A or B is impossible because of the nature of perspective. We have only to define something and work with it as though it was either.

So, that's why I say the questions and answers are irrelevant. They need not be relevant to be useful.

 Quoting: Chaol




Lightbulb went on! Both perspectives are here, right now. We just label them. We work with symbols to change perspective so we can experience something else.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol,

Can we please move on to some advanced uses of genius, ecsys, visualization, etc. Thank you.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Not-Chaol 5877556


Certainly.

What do you think the next sub-topic of discussion should be about, specifically?

For my next magic trick I will try to pull the Chaol out of not-Chaol. So that we can see how we are each within one-another, starting with not-Chaol.
 Quoting: Chaol


I would like to understand how to use visualization to play golf shots that result in a desired outcome. You mentioned that when you use your version of visualization the outcome is more or less guaranteed. I think that using this example could be easily transferred over for similar experiences by the other forum participants. Thanks.

Not-Chaol
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



I love illustrative examples. Thanks.

So, we are teaching our waking mind what the subconscious already knows. Since we don't know how we use the Genius, are we actually functioning only through the subconscious currently?
 Quoting: Unit3


You could also say that we are that which makes up the subconscious.

It's filled with all kinds of everything. Parts that know, parts that don't know.

We are the story of a part of it, and it is us.

The cells in your hand are asking the same questions :)

Iow, what's the difference in the waking mind that knows it wants to get to Point B, but doesn't know how it happens....as compared to the waking mind that does know how it happens.
 Quoting: Unit3


Practically-speaking...

Get to point B; waking mind does not know = 4 years, 3 months (exmaple)

Get to point B; waking mind knows how = 1 week

Get to point B; waking mind really knows and understands = a few nanoseconds


In the same way, your body "understands" things that the cells in your hand do not. It is experiencing time and space differently because of this understanding.

The understanding, however, is not a mental process. It is the relationship of values in its perspective.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol



Quoting Chaol: "Parts that know and parts that don't know."

I see this for sure. The way I'm expanding my perspective is trying a lot of new stuff. I think the most interesting discovery I've made is how easily I consciously make things unconscious...without realizing I"m even doing so!!!!!!

When I took the walk the other day where I focused on things I didn't like, I was shocked at how easily I made sure I didn't notice those things.

Today, I looked for new life in the things I love (per your suggestion) while I walked, and was amazed again at the conscious repression into unconsciousness....and also how to retrieve from the unconsciousness by noticing..... instead of sinking something out of "view."

I listened to a car drive by and kept listening as it went down the street....and could hear it almost a block away!!!!! Just because I chose to continue listening instead of sinking the sound into unconsciousness. Pretty neat!

Thank you for the example above of waking mind and really waking mind getting to point B! Very nice. hf

The body only knows things I don't know as long as I keep my perspective that way. correct? I'm stumbling over your statement: "It is the relationship of values in its perspective." This makes it sound as if the body has a different perspective to mine.
 Quoting: Unit3


Yes, the body has a different perspective (though again there is only one perspective that, when used, appears to be infinite).

There's an entire life in just one breath. Can you imagine living and working your entire life towards the purpose that the body that you unknowingly help to make up could take a single breath?

The cells know not what they do from your point of view because from their point of view it is something very different. They dream about you as you dream about your other lives, to be sure ;)

It is translated into something useful and relative for each
perspective.

We live and work our entire lives toward a purpose that we know not, and see it very differently than how our 'expanded perspective' would see it.

The perspectives are equally valid, again, because each is relative to what surrounds it.

I don't want to give the impression that if you have this 'expanded perspective' that you will miss all of the joys of life... walking along a path or having interesting conversations with friends. It is just that you experience so much more of these walks and conversations and would have a new kind of walk and conversation that would be completely fulfilling in your life and seem to take forever. (But from our now-human perspective this kind of life may be hundreds or thousands years-long.)
 Quoting: Chaol




Lightbulb! Everything is alive and I spend infinity experiencing it from infinite perspectives. Thank you, Chaol.

This beautiful conversation published here.
[link to crhacking.blogspot.com]
Unit3

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12/27/2012 12:37 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
In my post, I believe I defined my (illusory) obstacle and you've confirmed this for me. I believe this is rooted in the fear of losing (or belief that I will render irrelevant) that which I "cherish" (my precious).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Hope and Fear is what obstruct us from seeing clearly what is around us. Bear in mind though, that giving up Hope is much, much harder than beating Fear.

But which human would have given up Hope altogether for the sake of "seeing things clearly?" or to beat Fear?

Who would have given up "life" or "existence" in exchange for "nothing"? why?

But even if there is, how did he do it?
 Quoting: panoukos


Hope and fear.. both articles of resistance not so unlike the other.

When we fear something we are still interacting with it, drawing it nearer.

When we hope something we are interacting with it, also, but it a way that speaks "that is not us", continuing the illusion of separation indefinitely.

Basically, letting go of fear is the realization that you are what you fear. What was feared only seems that way because of the resistance to a part of yourself (a process that creates all kinds of 'demons', so to speak) rather than more of what it actually is.
 Quoting: Chaol



This conversation published here.
[link to cosmospoetry.blogspot.com]

Last Edited by U3 on 12/27/2012 12:38 PM

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