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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
U3

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05/13/2013 06:26 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
popcorn

Got that "nexus" vibe again. I wonder if I'm right.
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Two X flares, MM!

Thread: Another X Flare from our Sun!!! (((UPDATED : 4th X flares in 48 hours!!!!! NOW!!!))) X1.2 !!!!!!!!
 Quoting: CatCarel




All I've wanted to do is sleep today.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Neo-Chaol,

The craziest part of the paradox is that existence and non-existence are impossibilities.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466





wth?
 Quoting: U3


Let's start on one half of the existent/non-existent coin U3. Name something that does not exist (non-existent).

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It's an impossibility. If I mention something, it exists.
 Quoting: U3


OK then, on the other half of the existent/non-existent coin, name something that does exist.

Not-Chaol
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...





wth?
 Quoting: U3


Let's start on one half of the existent/non-existent coin U3. Name something that does not exist (non-existent).

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It's an impossibility. If I mention something, it exists.
 Quoting: U3


OK then, on the other half of the existent/non-existent coin, name something that does exist.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




A pine tree.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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...


Let's start on one half of the existent/non-existent coin U3. Name something that does not exist (non-existent).

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It's an impossibility. If I mention something, it exists.
 Quoting: U3


OK then, on the other half of the existent/non-existent coin, name something that does exist.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




A pine tree.
 Quoting: U3


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




It's an impossibility. If I mention something, it exists.
 Quoting: U3


OK then, on the other half of the existent/non-existent coin, name something that does exist.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




A pine tree.
 Quoting: U3


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 05/13/2013 07:40 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
There are other synchronicities between us all that I don't even mention, because then I would be talking my fool head off and taking over the thread. I have already found places in myself that you all are reflecting, and I've even given names to some of you that represent those other values of my self. Of course, nothing offensive! I'm not going to insult myself lol.

I wonder. If all of us were to pick an exact time and post at that very moment so that we're posting "on top of each other", as it were, if we could merge ourselves with some awareness of having done so? Like what happened to U3 and Chaol?

I mean, we are all of us the same being. I think. It would be cool to "re-absorb" each other for even a split second. Just to see what it's like.

(That we are all the same being would also explain why we are all at Tuuuuur's house.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


So true! It's amazing to me to be reading every one's thoughts and ideas since Chaol's return and realizing that every one here is thinking and experiencing the same things at the same times I am! (on top of each other? :D)

Great idea too hf
 Quoting: Arellios 5243746


It's worth a try, lol!
 Quoting: U3

Trying to figure out time zones and how to accommodate all of us who want to try. Using this site:

[link to www.worldtimeserver.com]

There is a world meeting planner. Using my own time zone as the basis, I figured the following sample times for the following sample locations around the world:

Texas, United States - 7:00 a.m.
Thailand - 7:00 p.m.
Victoria, Australia - 10:00 p.m.
United Kingdom - 1:00 p.m.
Venezuela - 7:30 a.m.
Buenos Aires, Argentina - 9:00 a.m.
Sonora, Mexico - 5:00 a.m.
Denmark - 2:00 p.m.

I don't mean to leave out anybody here. This is just a sample. We are all over the place.

Not knowing everybody's schedules or when they have access to the Internet, we would want to hear some preferences for a specific time to carry out this experiment. I am open to any time at all.

I guess what we would do is to choose an hour and a minute, and then for, say, 5 minutes before and after the appointed time, post as much as possible. Maybe we can use Chaol's very first post and type a word, post, type a word, post, etc. for a few minutes.

And, of course, we would pay close attention to any unusual sensations or phenomena.

Let me know!
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Curious what you mean by suitable for public viewing?
 Quoting: U3

I mean that I would want to present something more sophisticated than childish stick figures.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


OK then, on the other half of the existent/non-existent coin, name something that does exist.

Not-Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




A pine tree.
 Quoting: U3


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
CatCarel

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05/13/2013 08:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
popcorn

Got that "nexus" vibe again. I wonder if I'm right.
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Two X flares, MM!

Thread: Another X Flare from our Sun!!! (((UPDATED : 4th X flares in 48 hours!!!!! NOW!!!))) X1.2 !!!!!!!!
 Quoting: CatCarel


Hmm. Lol. Well, no idea if it's related but the sun is very relative to perspective... We also have the magic may 15 comin up too.

I noted the "nexus" vibe because I'm having a similar experience to what I have experienced around the nexi often noted by Chaol. I find my intent is quick to manifest in these times and it's hard not to notice "it". The experiences are very subjective and I find it difficult to convey them to others. Could just be that "magic seeker" in me looking for the justification of my beliefs(logic systems).

hf
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


There's always been a strong flare on nexus points :))
Cat
CatCarel

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




A pine tree.
 Quoting: U3


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024


So confrontational, Noch!

It's simply the relationship between yourself and the pine tree (two representations) that 'exists'.

Be nice hugs

Last Edited by CatCarel on 05/13/2013 10:32 PM
Cat
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Curious what you mean by suitable for public viewing?
 Quoting: U3

I mean that I would want to present something more sophisticated than childish stick figures.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315






"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
U3

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A pine tree.
 Quoting: U3


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024




Might I ask you to prove that I don't see it, smell it, touch it, etc:.

I will admit, I have tasted something and not known what the taste is. I have seen something and didn't know what it was right at first, so the mind filled in with a story. But, there was still something there to interpet.

I can't count the black dots in this illusion.
[link to www.kidworker.com]


Your turn. ;o)

Last Edited by ERE3 on 05/13/2013 10:50 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024


So confrontational, Noch!

It's simply the relationship between yourself and the pine tree (two representations) that 'exists'.

Be nice hugs
 Quoting: CatCarel


Sorry you took it that way Cat. Sorry to u 2 U3.
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
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It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024


So confrontational, Noch!

It's simply the relationship between yourself and the pine tree (two representations) that 'exists'.

Be nice hugs
 Quoting: CatCarel


Sorry you took it that way Cat. Sorry to u 2 U3.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34918232




I want to know. Please continue.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
That's an amazing thing to think about! What conflicts most consume my perspective? And thus take up the most of my energy!
 Quoting: Chaol


Right! Because resolving that conflict inherently changes your perspective.
 Quoting: CatCarel


Yes, it would seem that way
CatCarel

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
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It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024


So confrontational, Noch!

It's simply the relationship between yourself and the pine tree (two representations) that 'exists'.

Be nice hugs
 Quoting: CatCarel


Sorry you took it that way Cat. Sorry to u 2 U3.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34918232


grouphug

No worries :)
Cat
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I think the same thing about people and also, everything I see....it's all me. But, there are times, when I get tired of trying to understand all this material...and I express it. Then, it's over and I'm fine.

It seems if I express what I'm feeling, my dreamtime is better. If I don't, it seems my dreamtime is not.
 Quoting: U3


I'm reminded of the thing that Chaol said about how dreamtime is waking time. The two experiences being the same at certain point, just different interpretations.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Definitely. One thing I've learned is that it's okay to be 'wrong'. What's more important is how useful being 'wrong' was, and how useful the new information will be in future.

Right is wrong from another perspective.

But wrong is right from another perspective.

That's why there is no (absolute) wrong or right.

The question for us is "how useful is this in our current reality?"
 Quoting: Chaol


And can you always know how useful anything? I believe this is why Chaol says in his world, they interact with everything in their perspective.
 Quoting: U3


There are two ways to think about this.

In one way, we can divide our perspective and interact with the values in it as though they were separate.

In another way, we can realize that "there is only one perspective" and that our perspective can be thought of as one thing rather than an endless array of symbols.

I believe his way was the second way. That he saw his reality as being a singular perspective and when he "interacted with everything" it was not to divide the perspective, then interact with the parts.
 Quoting: Chaol




It's interesting you bring this up because when I first started studying this material, I thought I needed to see one perspective. I remember telling him it was one of my favorite quotes. (I had it on a post-it note by my computer.)

When I told him this, he told me that is not the most valuable thing for me to learn. I wish I had the post and could word it exactly how he said it, but I do know this is the gist of it.

I think he felt the most important thing for us is to understand HOW we perceive. So, interacting with all the parts is one way of seeing how we perceive and once that happens, then maybe we see it as one perspective.

I'll go look for that post. I have an idea where it might be. I'm pretty sure it's this thread and prob. two weeks or so after I got here.

I agree though, I believe he sees one perspective.
 Quoting: U3


It seems to be his method (seeing one perspective) rather than the one he suggests for us.

When we understand how and why resistance/conflict enables existence then I suppose would could move on to more advanced ways of looking at it.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I think the same thing about people and also, everything I see....it's all me. But, there are times, when I get tired of trying to understand all this material...and I express it. Then, it's over and I'm fine.

It seems if I express what I'm feeling, my dreamtime is better. If I don't, it seems my dreamtime is not.
 Quoting: U3


I'm reminded of the thing that Chaol said about how dreamtime is waking time. The two experiences being the same at certain point, just different interpretations.
 Quoting: Chaol


It seems the more neutral my emotions are while awake, the more vivid dreamtime is.

I can't begin to describe how real today's dreams were- and I've been quite Zen lately.
Cat
CatCarel

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
That's an amazing thing to think about! What conflicts most consume my perspective? And thus take up the most of my energy!
 Quoting: Chaol


Right! Because resolving that conflict inherently changes your perspective.
 Quoting: CatCarel


Yes, it would seem that way
 Quoting: Chaol


Why do I sense a 'Buuuuut...'

:)

Last Edited by CatCarel on 05/14/2013 12:14 AM
Cat
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

...


Sounds like my world
 Quoting: SpawnX


Collicus Maxiby built a rocket ship
Over to the stars he went!
Flying but ne'er flying,
Time but no-time.
After restless non-nights he landed on a distant star,
Instruments exhausted and fuel well-spent; yet he was
Excited as can possibly be, for he was Collicus Maxiby!

For what seemed like an eon he thought,
"Should I exit my rocket ship this day?"
A day did pass and a curious worm appeared,
"Youuuuuu.. Why don't youuuuu get some fresh airrrrrrrrrr?"
Strangely convinced by so strangely eloquent a worm
Collicus Maxiby rounded his spare rags and stepped out.
A strange place, indeed - he was somehow home but not home!
 Quoting: Chaol





I just wonder if balancing non-existence and illusion is what Chaol means by that last line?
 Quoting: Unit3


It seemed that the main character was distracted by his instruments and what seemed like a journey.

But not only the main character, I think. The point is to distract the reader with a wild story. (A name like "Collicus Maxiby", non-nights, well-spent fuel, a curious worm)

By reading the story you begin to focus on the detail, which pulls you into the perspective.

These details are meant to distract you from the bigger picture, just like in your reality.

The story creates a logic that your mind wants to follow. The details don't matter. As long as you can follow the logic.

For the character, all of these were agents of resistance and a kind of fear ("Should I exit my rocket ship this day?") that made him miss the bigger picture: that he never left his reality ("Flying but ne'er flying", "time but no time", "home but not home") and it is all about his perspective. Appropriate that it is set in space, I think.

The worm was strangely strange because it was him, a value in his perspective.

He also created a genius for his action without knowing, with possibility, representation, interaction, and logic ("Collicus Maxiby rounded his spare rags and stepped out." to bring him into his new perspective.

Perhaps also a genius in the beginning, too (rocket ship = possibility, Over to the stars = interaction, Time but no-time = structure/unstructure, distant star = representation)

Collicus Maxiby is us. And this is what we do every day. We focus on the details, missing the bigger picture about our own perspective.

Last Edited by Chaol on 05/14/2013 12:23 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


please continue with some proof that a pine tree exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466




It exists while I'm looking at it. I can also smell it, touch it, collect pine cones and grow another pine tree from it.

When I'm not looking at it, I don't know what happens.
 Quoting: U3


Don't stop on my account, please go ahead and prove that you see it, smell it, etc.

Not- Chaol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1460024




Might I ask you to prove that I don't see it, smell it, touch it, etc:.

I will admit, I have tasted something and not known what the taste is. I have seen something and didn't know what it was right at first, so the mind filled in with a story. But, there was still something there to interpet.

I can't count the black dots in this illusion.
[link to www.kidworker.com]


Your turn. ;o)
 Quoting: U3


I can provide no proof that I nor you exist, so where should I start to disprove that you don't smell it, touch it, etc., and moreover that, even if I could, that I would be able to prove that you sensing a smell or touch means that the pine exists.

Not-Chaol

They question if a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear? They answer that its not possible for a tree to fall unless somebody hears it.
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I think the same thing about people and also, everything I see....it's all me. But, there are times, when I get tired of trying to understand all this material...and I express it. Then, it's over and I'm fine.

It seems if I express what I'm feeling, my dreamtime is better. If I don't, it seems my dreamtime is not.
 Quoting: U3


I'm reminded of the thing that Chaol said about how dreamtime is waking time. The two experiences being the same at certain point, just different interpretations.
 Quoting: Chaol




It's fascinating to watch them overlap.

You mentioned the other day you felt you were two places at once. Any more similiar occurances?
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi. Unfortunately, I do not know how to respond to these questions.

I have 'amnesia' about a lot of it. And I've only entered a lucid dream (from waking) a couple of times that I remember. And there was no method, from what I understand. It just was.

But from the postings of my 'other self' I have read, it may help to imagine something that you know well, then imagine its detail, then what is surrounding it (to introduce the new reality one part at a time).

Are we not lucid dreaming now? How did we get here?
 Quoting: Chaol


Solid tip I will try to imagine a specific spot every night it will become my portal to lucid dream world. So the location I imagine is an imaginary symbol. Sorta like Sekhmet but Sekhmet has physical representation. Do I need to represent the imaginary symbol in physical form for connecting the two locations. I will see if this genius works.


We are not lucid dreaming now. When I plug my nose and breath in I can tell I am now in structure and logic of the physical world. When I plug my nose and breath in a lucid dream I blow my mind.


Sure we are dreaming now just the structure in this world. Lacking awareness to perceive in dream like fashion. But we are on the ride Chaol step on the gas!!!885
 Quoting: Dreamer 39003367


"We are not lucid dreaming now" - if we have always been in one, would we know the difference?

"Lacking awareness to perceive in dream like fashion." - what if what we think of as a lucid dream is one kind of dream, and physicality is another kind of dream?
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi. Unfortunately, I do not know how to respond to these questions.

I have 'amnesia' about a lot of it. And I've only entered a lucid dream (from waking) a couple of times that I remember. And there was no method, from what I understand. It just was.

But from the postings of my 'other self' I have read, it may help to imagine something that you know well, then imagine its detail, then what is surrounding it (to introduce the new reality one part at a time).

Are we not lucid dreaming now? How did we get here?
 Quoting: Chaol


Solid tip I will try to imagine a specific spot every night it will become my portal to lucid dream world. So the location I imagine is an imaginary symbol. Sorta like Sekhmet but Sekhmet has physical representation. Do I need to represent the imaginary symbol in physical form for connecting the two locations. I will see if this genius works.


We are not lucid dreaming now. When I plug my nose and breath in I can tell I am now in structure and logic of the physical world. When I plug my nose and breath in a lucid dream I blow my mind.


Sure we are dreaming now just the structure in this world. Lacking awareness to perceive in dream like fashion. But we are on the ride Chaol step on the gas!!!885
 Quoting: Dreamer 39003367


Vroom vroom! Let's fly dreamer! Hehe

I've not had a lucid dream yet but I've been more aware of my dreams lately. I basically learn things there and I know it's about how things relate to each other. Like everything in the dream is a physical object. But I don't really recall the details of the dream when I wake up, just that I've learned a lot.
 Quoting: Nahoti


There's a giant bucket of popcorn in your living room. There! Do you see it? It's 10 feet tall.

I think you've just pulled yourself into a lucid dream. You'll have to wait until dreamtime to see the other interpretation of your experience, though.
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


And can you always know how useful anything? I believe this is why Chaol says in his world, they interact with everything in their perspective.
 Quoting: U3


There are two ways to think about this.

In one way, we can divide our perspective and interact with the values in it as though they were separate.

In another way, we can realize that "there is only one perspective" and that our perspective can be thought of as one thing rather than an endless array of symbols.

I believe his way was the second way. That he saw his reality as being a singular perspective and when he "interacted with everything" it was not to divide the perspective, then interact with the parts.
 Quoting: Chaol




It's interesting you bring this up because when I first started studying this material, I thought I needed to see one perspective. I remember telling him it was one of my favorite quotes. (I had it on a post-it note by my computer.)

When I told him this, he told me that is not the most valuable thing for me to learn. I wish I had the post and could word it exactly how he said it, but I do know this is the gist of it.

I think he felt the most important thing for us is to understand HOW we perceive. So, interacting with all the parts is one way of seeing how we perceive and once that happens, then maybe we see it as one perspective.

I'll go look for that post. I have an idea where it might be. I'm pretty sure it's this thread and prob. two weeks or so after I got here.

I agree though, I believe he sees one perspective.
 Quoting: U3


It seems to be his method (seeing one perspective) rather than the one he suggests for us.

When we understand how and why resistance/conflict enables existence then I suppose would could move on to more advanced ways of looking at it.
 Quoting: Chaol



I don't really feel it's his method. I lean more toward it's his reality.

Yes, I think he is waiting for us to catch on so he can teach us more.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 05/14/2013 12:28 AM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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05/14/2013 12:29 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I gave the hand genius a trial yesterday. It wasn't automatic but it worked. At first I didn't know how to go about assigning each of the fingers with one of the elements.

So what prompted me to try this was that I inexplicably woke up with some pain in my right hand. It felt like the pain came from my middle finger (lol) and spread all around down to my wrist. I didn't do anything extraordinary the day before that would account for the pain but who knows what sleeping position I assumed or even even better, who knows what our physical bodies go through while we're asleep.

Then I tried to use my left hand as my genius and using it to heal this sudden problem with his counterpart (my dear right hand). So at first I wasn't doing anything apart from using left hand to soothe/massage right hand. This didn't do much. But I was still a bit stuck on how to implement the right hand as a genius. I tried to let go and see if it would go away quite soon. But it was still quite sore. So I went back and read what Chaol said about not knowing how it works but knowing that each of the four elements are contained in my left hand. That was the clincher for me apparently. My left hand miraculously healed my right within seconds of applying this rule.

I think baby steps is always key as Chaol says. Once I know I can do something small, that motivates me to try bigger and braver. So yeah strange hand problem resolved within minutes.
 Quoting: Nahoti


Yes, baby steps. But when you think about it, this is a huge baby step. It's like a fantasy world materializing in our lifetimes.
Chaol

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05/14/2013 12:31 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



Right. I was just trying to see the difference in emotions and logic...since we have established logic (order) is inherent in chaos.

Thanks for linking to the post. I found this gem there too:

"By "infections" I do not mean a negative or detrimental process occurring in a person's mind or body. However, we have no clear understanding of emotions (or consciousness) in this world. This, of course, does not validate my claims that emotions are infections. But the fact that there is no clear understanding of what emotions are should at least open the door to the possibility that the process of biochemical processes interacting with environmental influences is the same with the body (as a virus, in getting sick) as with the mind (emotions)."
 Quoting: U3


Do you think that an emotion can have logic behind it, even if we don't agree with the logic?

For example, John is happy because the paint on his wall has not dried yet. It need not make sense to us, but if we were in John's brain we would be able to see how it made sense - to see the map to the happiness for the wet paint.

As chaos is an order we do not (yet) understand, perhaps emotions are relationships that we may or may not understand.

But as humans I think we're quick to separate emotions from logic because we believe that only one way is logical or that if it is logical then it is without emotion and the domain of machines. That we cannot both be emotional and logical.

As I understand it, in Ecsys everything is logical. But we may not be able to see how something makes sense.

But there is so much we don't understand about our own minds.
 Quoting: Chaol





Great points! Thanks.

I am reminded that when I was younger, I used to follow only my heart in making decisions. I found that didn't work well so I switched to making decisions based on logic...... that didn't work so well, either.

It is when I finally learned to use both that things worked much better for me.
 Quoting: U3


I've noticed that often I'll feel an emotion, and my mind then scrambles to label it and find a cause and an explanation. I've been realizing that the two are not always meant to be stitched together into a story.

I don't know where the emotions come from. Maybe they come from the colonies of bacteria -- the 90% of me?

It seems to me that emotions are a very effective way to drive the cart. Even the most logical person, if hit with just the right emotional hot button, will turn his cart. Then logic will step in to rationalize the action after the fact.
 Quoting: VersionTwo


The telling question is "Would we accept it if our emotions had a non-human origin?"

That is not to say our emotions come from somewhere else. But if our emotions are because of relationships then it should be because all relative relationships.

Including the 90% that isn't human, yet still makes up who we are physically and mentally.

That is also not to say that our emotions are not our own. It's just that we have a very limited idea of what we are (i.e., I am only human)

Something to think about.
Chaol

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05/14/2013 12:33 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just as a reminder:

"Chaos" is the Goddess of Interaction.

Her symbol looks like a semi-circle open to the above, meeting another semi-circle open below. There is a straight line (symbol for logic) running through the center of both. Where all lines intersect is a single point (representing Thoht or "symbol"). The symbol for "Chaos" or Interaction incorporates each of the four symbols.

From the ecsys.org website:

Interaction is the structure of potential energy.

Interaction enables logic, allowing for relationships between things.

Interaction requires degrees of transparency. The more transparent something is the more it can be interacted with.

Basic formula: 1+2=3 "Logic with possibility"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315

Oh, look!

[link to i.imgur.com]

"As above, so below."

The element for "potential energy" is a circle.

The element for "interaction and association" is a circle that has been cut in half, with one half open above and the other half open below.

In the element named "chaon", the symbol for logic extends through both semi-circles, connecting the above and the below.

Where all lines meet is the element named "elementon", which is the symbol for representation. It seems to be shared both above and below, through logic.

********

There is a load of understanding in this.

Somehow, Sekhmet is also associated with the chaon element. I see it in my mind's eye, but don't have the words for it yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


I see the interaction symbol as having two parts: above and below, with logic being the bridge between the two.

In this way "Chaol", like Chaos, is like a bridge between the two worlds.
U3

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05/14/2013 12:33 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

...


Collicus Maxiby built a rocket ship
Over to the stars he went!
Flying but ne'er flying,
Time but no-time.
After restless non-nights he landed on a distant star,
Instruments exhausted and fuel well-spent; yet he was
Excited as can possibly be, for he was Collicus Maxiby!

For what seemed like an eon he thought,
"Should I exit my rocket ship this day?"
A day did pass and a curious worm appeared,
"Youuuuuu.. Why don't youuuuu get some fresh airrrrrrrrrr?"
Strangely convinced by so strangely eloquent a worm
Collicus Maxiby rounded his spare rags and stepped out.
A strange place, indeed - he was somehow home but not home!
 Quoting: Chaol





I just wonder if balancing non-existence and illusion is what Chaol means by that last line?
 Quoting: Unit3


It seemed that the main character was distracted by his instruments and what seemed like a journey.

But not only the main character, I think. The point is to distract the reader with a wild story. (A name like "Collicus Maxiby", non-nights, well-spent fuel, a curious worm)

By reading the story you begin to focus on the detail, which pulls you into the perspective.

These details are meant to distract you from the bigger picture, just like in your reality.

The story creates a logic that your mind wants to follow. The details don't matter. As long as you can follow the logic.

For the character, all of these were agents of resistance and a kind of fear ("Should I exit my rocket ship this day?") that made him miss the bigger picture: that he never left his reality ("Flying but ne'er flying", "time but no time", "home but not home") and it is all about his perspective. Appropriate that it is set in space, I think.

The worm was strangely strange because it was him, a value in his perspective.

He also created a genius for his action without knowing, with possibility, representation, interaction, and logic ("Collicus Maxiby rounded his spare rags and stepped out." to bring him into his new perspective.

Perhaps also a genius in the beginning, too (rocket ship = possibility, Over to the stars = interaction, Time but no-time = structure/unstructure, distant star = representation)

Collicus Maxiby is us. And this is what we do every day. We focus on the details, missing the bigger picture about our own perspective.
 Quoting: U3





Fear of non-existence and knowing you exist in illusion....home but not home.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka


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