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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
tuuuuur

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06/18/2013 12:30 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well I held in mind to do things I would not normally do.

So a few nights before I dreamt I took up getting a Phd degree (which hypothetically I could, having a masters degree, which I got some 20 years ago). The night after that I dreamt living in my student's apartment again, fully aware that I am a lot older now.

That's when it struck me I never did anything with my study again since graduating; now I have started teaching myself again. I don't know how long I will keep being motivated, but it's a start.

Tensions at home are very high, no fun.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

Would you prefer a different experience?

Perhaps I can be of service.
 Quoting: Chaol


Very much!
I am curious as to how you could be of service.
Chaol

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06/18/2013 12:50 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well I held in mind to do things I would not normally do.

So a few nights before I dreamt I took up getting a Phd degree (which hypothetically I could, having a masters degree, which I got some 20 years ago). The night after that I dreamt living in my student's apartment again, fully aware that I am a lot older now.

That's when it struck me I never did anything with my study again since graduating; now I have started teaching myself again. I don't know how long I will keep being motivated, but it's a start.

Tensions at home are very high, no fun.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

Would you prefer a different experience?

Perhaps I can be of service.
 Quoting: Chaol


Very much!
I am curious as to how you could be of service.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

by influencing your reality.

The wheels are already in motion, simply by your previous response.

It's not something that I 'start' to do, just something that happens and I see happen.

The only way to not participate is, unfortunately, to not respond in this thread.

But of course I encourage you to continue exploring your perspective.

I hope to find a better way in future, but for now that is what it is.

Do you prefer your drink mixed, shaken, stirred, refilled, sipped, or replaced?

Last Edited by Chaol on 06/18/2013 12:53 PM
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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06/18/2013 01:08 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thanks Chaol 2.0.

I find your experience inspiring and appreciate your posts. The implication, of course, would be that EC provides an "outside" logic by which a tree disappearing or a new room environment are probable.

Thank you. Just reading through your last few posts, sheds new light on how I've come to experience so much of my subjective weirdness and why its been so hard to convince those closest to me it's any more than hard work or coincidence. It's because from their perspective, that's exactly what it is.
Maybe... you are all powerful... all knowing... forever present in all ways... you've chosen to forget... remember?
Lok
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06/18/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol ole' chap,

Can you touch on specificity.

Let's say I want the lottery, so make a genius for a stranger giving me millions.

Is there a fail safe so that The stranger doesn't hit my mother with a car and offer me millions to not report it?

Any thoughts are appreciated.
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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06/18/2013 01:43 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol ole' chap,

Can you touch on specificity.

Let's say I want the lottery, so make a genius for a stranger giving me millions.

Is there a fail safe so that The stranger doesn't hit my mother with a car and offer me millions to not report it?

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 Quoting: Lok 39964291


I'm sure you'd rather Chaol respond, but I (think I and you) understand.

Maybe include the "people" you want to include in your future in the logical narrative? I don't think I'm personally going to win the lotto. So Iddecided I'd see if I could start influencing others around me instead. I told my dad about chaos magic on Saturday, we just fell into a conversation about it as a result of him telling me about a lucid dream where he personally had won the lotto. When selecting a card for him for father's day, I thought about his dream and decided to get him a couple lotto tickets to throw in it. I put a sigil on the card and envelope, I imagined him calling to let me know he had won and how weird it all was. I gave him the card and made no mention of the sigils and told him to remember his dream. Today is one drawing, tomorrow another. I am not a big lotto fan, but find it funny we're discussing it. Ill letcha all know how it plays out. I've got no expectations, but hell, it'd be pretty cool.
Maybe... you are all powerful... all knowing... forever present in all ways... you've chosen to forget... remember?
VersionTwo

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06/18/2013 04:17 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You want to win the lottery. Do you 1) make a Genius for the winning numbers or; 2) make a Genius for a total stranger giving you millions? (In this example, it is more logical that you would meet a total stranger who gives you millions than it would to discover the winning numbers ahead of time)

We should always think the way our Genius thinks. What is the most efficient way for X experience considering the current conditions?
 Quoting: Chaol



This is awesome.

I have a dear friend who's a struggling single mom, having recently extricated herself from an abusive man. She works very hard but is still scraping by, paycheck to paycheck, as often happens after a divorce wipes you out, and you are getting back on your feet.

As I was reading this post, she was just telling me she has a $2500 emergency. I would like to do a genius on her behalf - not just that she finds the money for this current emergency, but for future emergencies too. Nobody works harder than this friend, and nobody deserves the peace that comes with financial self-sufficiency.

The most efficient way is for her to get a raise. And, she's up for one right now - not just cost of living but a merit raise. So this should be a slam-dunk, right?

So let's try this out. Anyone want to help? Interact away...
VersionTwo

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06/18/2013 04:18 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You want to win the lottery. Do you 1) make a Genius for the winning numbers or; 2) make a Genius for a total stranger giving you millions? (In this example, it is more logical that you would meet a total stranger who gives you millions than it would to discover the winning numbers ahead of time)

We should always think the way our Genius thinks. What is the most efficient way for X experience considering the current conditions?
 Quoting: Chaol



This is awesome.

I have a dear friend who's a struggling single mom, having recently extricated herself from an abusive man. She works very hard but is still scraping by, paycheck to paycheck, as often happens after a divorce wipes you out, and you are getting back on your feet.

As I was reading this post, she was just telling me she has a $2500 emergency. I would like to do a genius on her behalf - not just that she finds the money for this current emergency, but for future emergencies too. Nobody works harder than this friend, and she deserves the peace that comes with financial self-sufficiency.

The most efficient way is for her to get a raise. And, she's up for one right now - not just cost of living but a merit raise. So this should be a slam-dunk, right?

So let's try this out. Anyone want to help? Interact away...
 Quoting: VersionTwo
VersionTwo

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06/18/2013 04:18 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suck at editing. :-P
U3

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06/18/2013 04:44 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thank you for sharing your experience, NeoChaol. How exciting.

I would like to know why we separate this reality with the dream world? Some of us spend almost as much time there as here, anyway. Let's say 8 hours of sleep at night and 2 hours of meditation during the day....plus an hour a day in these threads....it adds up. And if you take a nap during the day or chill out listening to music, there's another hour or two.

So, when we do a Genius, what is the difference in deciding what's relative and the logical path to something in the Dream World?
tuuuuur

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06/18/2013 05:12 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well I held in mind to do things I would not normally do.

So a few nights before I dreamt I took up getting a Phd degree (which hypothetically I could, having a masters degree, which I got some 20 years ago). The night after that I dreamt living in my student's apartment again, fully aware that I am a lot older now.

That's when it struck me I never did anything with my study again since graduating; now I have started teaching myself again. I don't know how long I will keep being motivated, but it's a start.

Tensions at home are very high, no fun.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

Would you prefer a different experience?

Perhaps I can be of service.
 Quoting: Chaol


Very much!
I am curious as to how you could be of service.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

by influencing your reality.

The wheels are already in motion, simply by your previous response.

It's not something that I 'start' to do, just something that happens and I see happen.

The only way to not participate is, unfortunately, to not respond in this thread.

But of course I encourage you to continue exploring your perspective.

I hope to find a better way in future, but for now that is what it is.

Do you prefer your drink mixed, shaken, stirred, refilled, sipped, or replaced?
 Quoting: Chaol


Thanks Chaol, enjoying your posts a lot!

Funny you mention drinks by the way, as my wife recently found out she does tolerate alcohol (for 10 years or so she thought she didn't). She kinda loosens up a bit which is cool.

So tonight we went shopping and I bought a 6pack of a drink I never heard of before earlier today, when I saw a friend mentioning it. It's a rum cola mix...

We came back and then I read this post of yours...

So my answer would be that I like my drinks mixed! ;)
tuuuuur

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06/18/2013 05:13 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Astronomically june 19th until 21at seem pretty interesting:
Thread: What is happening? 21st of JUNE - Summer S o l s t i c e and impending cataclysm.
panoukos

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06/18/2013 05:15 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
What if the "conceptions" of "all the people at all times" is nonsense? What if it is a construct from your current viewpoint as a logical convenience (that which takes the least energy) to support the structure of your "personal" perspective?
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


What if one person (You personally) IS "conceiving" everything at all times? The appearance of "other people" and their "conceptions" allows for an easy narrative for you to attain the perspective you've queued up for yourself. Just as your computer you use to post here, research there and entertain yourself is an extension of yourself, other "people" and their "conceptions" provide a similar function within perspective.
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Oh Jesse!! You "sound" upset.
I didn't expect my fun posts to be upsetting to you.

Anyway, I said it was a long shot. I take your post to be an invitation (rather than, say, bollocking :) to connect the dots )
I hope I' ll be able to do that soon.
"that which takes the least energy"'s willing, of course.

In the meantime, if you could tell me the "then that" to the "what if"s of yours above, would be genuinely helpful and appreciable.
know thy word
Ambra
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06/18/2013 07:58 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Discovering the Most Efficient Way to Shape your Reality: Part 1

Let's think about how you can make anything you want more relative to your experience by following the below example.

Imagine there is a tree in front of your house that you want gone because you're planning to build a pond somewhere and its location is ideal.

We might think that we can use the Genius to move the tree for us. Some of us might be quick to think that if a Genius model is made then the tree would simply disappear one morning.

A disappearing tree would be magic. However, the Genius uses logic.

So instead of wanting the tree to disappear (using visualization or whatever), Chaol has taught us to not focus on the disappearing tree but on the reality surrounding the tree no longer being there.

By itself the tree has no value. It is only there (or not there) in relation to its reality. So in order for the tree to disappear in our reality we must illustrate, logically, how this condition manifests. The surrounding relationships must also change.

Using the Genius we may find a piece of rubber to represent the tree and think of some random logic for it, following all of the steps of the Genius.

We need not be obvious with the intention (to make the tree disappear) because the reality of the tree is not obvious to us. The disappearing tree is more than just the tree. It is the ground, the neighbors, the street, even the birds. The Genius is the common denominator between all of these values and shapes reality to our intention.

.. and it also unveils the way for the most perspective-efficient way to make the tree disappear.

But if we're only looking at the tree it will not be obvious to us. We must "close our eyes" and sense the common denominator that we our subconscious is aware of.

The rubber, for example, that we thought had nothing to do with a tree may actually represent the process by which a city bulldozer comes to take it down. The random logic that we made up might be perfect for a storm where lightning strikes the tree. The possibility element we chose may relate well with the tree's roots.

It is not so much that we are sensing what these elements are (for example, that we are psychic enough to pick up on the logic of lightning) but that we are shaping perspective when we use the Genius.

I used to think that the statement that we are re-creating the universe at every moment was pure nonsense. But now I see and understand that it is the most energy efficient way for existence to illustrate itself. Not to use what has been done before but to make everything anew and give it the illusion of history and future potentiality.

It would be like a writer having a choice between writing a story that she was once told and creating a new story. Although we may think that the first choice is easiest because the writer knows the story, it is actually the second choice that the flow of nature can take its course.

And so the Genius makes us authors of our perspective. With it we can do anything that we can imagine, experience anything, and feel anything because we are experiencing our imagination.

"Perspective" is then misleading if confused with perception, or of sense. We are not perceiving anything. We are experiencing the geometry of the relationships of everything in our imagination (the values).

With the Genius we are changing the relationships of the things in our imagination (and thus perspective). And, by this, our reality changes.

But I believe Chaol did not want to use "imagination" because of how little it is valued and because it is not thought of as being real. So I will continue to use "perspective", but define it as 'sensing the reality of our imagination' in this way.

By the time we imagine the relationship the reality already exists. We have only to navigate the relationship in a way that makes it as relative as we need it to be in our reality.

So in our tree-moving example, we have two choices (for simplicity):

1) Imagine that the tree disappears

2) Enable a value in our perspective to move it

When we consider the logic of the second option we realize that the first option would actually require more perspective-energy because it is not logical to our perspective.

This is the key.

Which of the following is more perspective-efficient?

You want to win the lottery. Do you 1) make a Genius for the winning numbers or; 2) make a Genius for a total stranger giving you millions? (In this example, it is more logical that you would meet a total stranger who gives you millions than it would to discover the winning numbers ahead of time)

You want a new car. Do you 1) make a Genius for finding a lost loot of cash or; 2) make a Genius for getting an amazing financial deal?

You want to find a long-lost friend. Do you 1) make a Genius to find that person or; 2) make a Genius to run into their best friend?

You are hungry for chocolate ice cream. Do you 1) make a Genius for ice cream to appear in your freezer or; 2) make a Genius for a neighbor to give you a gift of ice cream

We should always think the way our Genius thinks. What is the most efficient way for X experience considering the current conditions?

Sometimes the most efficient way is not to make things "materialize" but to leverage something in your reality to make it happen. Your reality is there to be utilized, not just perceived, because it is you. You would, in essence, be helping yourself.

Hope this helps some.
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you Neo-Chaol, this was extremely helpful!

I have just been reading/lurking the thread lately, finding myself most of the time with too many pages to catch up with. Even tried to read the thread backwards, but that doesn't work for me. I guess, I'll pick up from where I am, right here.

At first I didn't know what to make of the New Chaol turn of events, and I missed the Old Chaol.
Old Chaol will always be in my heart.
But the more I read, the more I can see how valuable the Neo-perspective is. I really like your input and approach!

So, a belated "welcome back" to you, and "hi" to all in this thread. :)

Based on your concept of perspective efficiency (which reminds me of Old-Chaol's "next logical step"), I shall come up with two Genius models, and let you know how it goes.

Genius 1 is for the noisy fridge, charging most of the time. It's been a toll on my nerves. Attempts at repairs haven't worked. Instead of imagining the fridge magically fixing itself, the genius will be for the repair man finally finding the correct part. That is the most logical narrative for me right now.

The easiest and most immediate would be to go and buy a darn new fridge by myself, except that I'd like to buy the new one for my new home. Besides, it's a great way to get some training with the Genius models.

Genius 2 is for my dream home (which I tried back then, but did not give results). This time, I'll do it about finding the perfect ad I've been waiting for. Awesome deal, great house, right location.

I am just wondering when it's best to be specific vs making the Genius only about the desired result, but leaving the "how" to the workings of the values, because there could be multiple logical and perspective-efficient ways that something could become part of our reality.

For example:
a) disappearing tree - bulldozer, lightning, you name it
b) dream home - online ad, local friend telling me, driving around and seeing a sign for sale
etc.

For the time being, I am once again busy changing the geometry of relationships at home, and doing space clearing.

:)
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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06/18/2013 09:14 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
What if the "conceptions" of "all the people at all times" is nonsense? What if it is a construct from your current viewpoint as a logical convenience (that which takes the least energy) to support the structure of your "personal" perspective?
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


What if one person (You personally) IS "conceiving" everything at all times? The appearance of "other people" and their "conceptions" allows for an easy narrative for you to attain the perspective you've queued up for yourself. Just as your computer you use to post here, research there and entertain yourself is an extension of yourself, other "people" and their "conceptions" provide a similar function within perspective.
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Oh Jesse!! You "sound" upset.
I didn't expect my fun posts to be upsetting to you.
 Quoting: panoukos


Was it the word "nonsense" that made me appear upset? I'm sorry I came-off or sounded "upset", that wasn't my intention. I do think your posts are fun and I am happy to meet your expectations, thank you.

Anyway, I said it was a long shot. I take your post to be an invitation (rather than, say, bollocking :) to connect the dots )
I hope I' ll be able to do that soon.
"that which takes the least energy"'s willing, of course.
 Quoting: panoukos


I had to google "bollocking". It's a new word for me, thanks (lol). My questions were meant to be sincere. You seem like you get it, and I'd like your input on the implications of the questions. I was really just looking to express my perspective while adding to what you had noted and get your feedback.

In the meantime, if you could tell me the "then that" to the "what if"s of yours above, would be genuinely helpful and appreciable.
 Quoting: panoukos


What if the "conceptions" of "all the people at all times" is nonsense?

You had said:

"My long shot would be that, if you add all the conceptions of all the people at all times (that is, since the invention of the tool that allows this process to take place, and this is the "word"), you will get the (one) perception (the "I know everything")."


I probably should have used "doesn't exist" or "is irrelevant" instead of "is nonsense"(knowing now that it came of catty).

As I see it, the "then that" would be: If the conceptions of "all people at all times" is nonsense, then it's beyond perception.

(I hope it's not coming off as if I am upset)

We can muse about possibilities we will never experience, but they're only relevant from this point of view (because once we experience them, the musings will be irrelevant). We're looking at something and assuming it's not us, as if it's more than us, us plus something else. I think we are already the sum total of all conceptions of all the people at all times. You personally, at every moment, are already "that". We consider being more than we are, as if there is more.

What if it is a construct from your current viewpoint as a logical convenience (that which takes the least energy) to support the structure of your "personal" perspective?

Then that would mean that everyone "else" is just there as structure to support your perspective. We assume there are gears grinding behind their eyes, as if they're conceiving for themselves. It seems to me that, their gears are grinding in you, for you.


What if one person (You personally) IS "conceiving" everything at all times?

I was putting out my "then that" in the next bit:

The appearance of "other people" and their "conceptions" allows for an easy narrative for you to attain the perspective you've queued up for yourself. Just as your computer you use to post here, research there and entertain yourself is an extension of yourself, other "people" and their "conceptions" provide a similar function within perspective.

I'd still like to get your take on it all. (Again, I've no idea what I am talking about. So I am most certainly not in a place to be "bollocking" anyonetomato)
hf
(Oh, and Hello Ambra!)

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 06/18/2013 09:23 PM
Maybe... you are all powerful... all knowing... forever present in all ways... you've chosen to forget... remember?
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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06/18/2013 09:57 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Sorry, saw this trailer and instantly thought of Chaol.


Maybe... you are all powerful... all knowing... forever present in all ways... you've chosen to forget... remember?
Chaol

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06/18/2013 11:25 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The only "meaning" being a Logic that is free of meaning and exists because its a way to relate to something, and make new relationships [quoting Chaol].


Could a logic that is free of meaning relate to perspective by something like choice? If the logic is inherently meaningless, then we choose how we relate to it in order to make new relationships. Would these new relationships then be more of what we chose to relate to the logic?
 Quoting: Lok 39964291


If "choice" is how you interpret the process, then I suppose it works to help understand it.

But it my be more accurate to say that we automatically experience what is most relative to our perspective. In this way, it is not something we choose.

But, like Chaol, I do not wish to speak much about choice because it is one of those things we feel makes us human.

So I choose to continue to talk about choices and what we want, but just keep in mind there are other processes at work that may not be so obvious to us.

By resisting no thing, but getting what you want out of all things by how you relate to them?
 Quoting: Lok 39964291

This resistance is more of a way of existing, so to speak.

To clarify 'resistance' a bit, one person may think of non-resistance as turning the other cheek, while another person may think of it as accepting a bland meal. But really it is not about not-resisting individual things or events but more of an acceptance that everything is your perspective. You.

But to answer your question, yes. Resisting less will mean finding what you want out of how more things relate. (We can only seem to resist less, not actually resist more or less. But this illusion is what works for us.)

Let's take an example. You want a new job and take out Thursday evening to focus on that. A boy knocks at the door. You decide to ignore it because you are trying to focus on your new job. This ignoring of your reality can be thought of as resistance, as you are actively avoiding a part of your perspective. This experience could be what leads you to your new job.

So in this way we accept a more complete perspective and the illustration of ourselves. What we want is already here. We have only to perceive it.

If structure leads to relativity then by structuring the meaningless logic with meaning are we make that meaning more relative.
 Quoting: Lok 39964291

We can't help but make a Logic that is relative to what we are (or what we are experiencing). It is "meaningless" insomuch that it is inherently meaningful because it is an expression of our own Logic, so we don't need to add anything else. So whatever we "choose" will make sense for us in some way.

The meaning comes about from the relationships. It is not that the meaning is more relative but a relationship of some type is formed.

Chaol what is relative to you?

What do you relate to?
 Quoting: Lok 39964291

Can you be more specific?
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Neo...or anyone else, I still have another lingering question. Why don't we just visualize the geometery that changes our perception rather than the elements of Ec or the Genius?

Wouldn't it be less removed from reality since that's what we really see?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739

That is what we experience.

We experience the geometry of relationships.

But because it is all we have known it is deeply integrated into our sense of perception.

One geometry is your friend Bob or Carol, while another is an experience with a wagon you are having when you are 7 years old.

But it does not change your perception. It is perspective. Someone skates across the ice simultaneous with the new relationships because the two are the same thing.

We experience that geometry, those relationships, which are most relative to us. Because it is so relative, it is so familiar to us and it seems quite natural and a part of our everyday reality.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
These are all different ways to refashion the same story, over and over again.

Have you heard of archetypes?
 Quoting: VersionTwo

Yes, I've heard of them. I got the idea Chaol was speaking of something else, though. I've never heard him use the term.
 Quoting: U3


A reference, from [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Your 'spaceship' must first integrate with your mind rather than exist in your perspective as a separate tool. You can use just about anything you want if it makes sense to you. Most often, though, people choose concepts and archetypes they are comfortable with.

As long as the physical thing is a representation of the non-physical process, they will get there. But the effect of the thing will not appear to be physical. It may not even be seen with physical instruments.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I know normal languages don't apply during the application of Ec, but does anyone think the acquisition of a secondary language (French, German, whatever) to fluency, to where you're thinking in the form of concepts directly to that other language, helps with learning and using Ec? In that your brain is getting accustomed to thinking in something that's not a language you've used your whole life. Would this increase your ease of use and understanding of Ec?

Thanks.
 Quoting: Mak 40050666

The understanding of more than one spoken language would not seem to help or hinder in the understanding of Ec, as Ec is a completely different kind of language.

Natural language such as English or Swahili are expressions of relationships. Every word and phrase a representation of a relationship that the listener or speaker may understand.

Although Ec can be used in the same way, its real power is in its ability to represent the geometry of relationships of perspective itself.

With English you can say "I want a bird" in a pet store and a bird may appear because other persons understand the relationships of what is spoken.

Really, when speaking natural language you are talking with yourself. You are communicating with other values in your perspective.

From what I understand, with Ec you are communicating with other values in your perspective in a much more fundamental way. You become the bird, experience the bird, introduce the bird into your perspective in multiple ways, etc. Using Ec you are 'interfacing' directly with your perspective rather than communicating with values in your perspective (as in other languages).

I hope this helps to clarify it somewhat. I have not yet studied it but have a slight grasp of it through other methods.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:00 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I know normal languages don't apply during the application of Ec, but does anyone think the acquisition of a secondary language (French, German, whatever) to fluency, to where you're thinking in the form of concepts directly to that other language, helps with learning and using Ec? In that your brain is getting accustomed to thinking in something that's not a language you've used your whole life. Would this increase your ease of use and understanding of Ec?

Thanks.
 Quoting: Mak 40050666


No. I speak 4 languages and it has not seemed to help at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466


I agree. I studied old languages and I did not find a connection with the way generic languages are constructed.

To me it feels like normal languages are like the HTML, PHP of speech; whereas Ecsys is the assembly, the machinecode of the brain.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

I like your analogy.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:17 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Anybody heard of Glenn Beck? Most of the people in Europe haven't, I guess.
Here he is announcing an event that sounds pretty darn big. Without revealing much he suggests there are some announcements being made the next few days that 'will change your world overnight'.
Though he is very american centered I can't help but think this has to do with the Odrama (haha! Geddit?) that chaol announced some time ago.

Thread: Glen Beck UPDATE on Major Announcement Coming -June 13th 2013

Drudge is using strong words as well in describing the next days...

Thread: Drudges last 2 tweets very ominous

something's up!
 Quoting: tuuuuur

As previously mentioned before in various ways, what is happening now on the world stage is the breakdown of Western civilization and of traditional physicality.

What is happening now with NSA "leaks" (they are not leaks) are all about the old physicality trying to keep power in the dreamworld.

These interests think that if they control the narrative they control the story and how it is interpreted. This is basically how it works because language is how we relate to physicality.

What you are seeing is the unveiling of a military-industrial partnership that is unveiled by the same group of people that manage these systems. (Again, these are all values of perspective. There is no conspiracy.)

They think by doing this they will take humanity to "the next level" on their terms. Their own slice of the dreamworld that functions under the same conditions as in the old physicality.

Essentially, the goal is to:

1) Manage people more effectively
2) Take control of systems that will allow them to perform #1

Much of this has to do with the power of the internet. The internet is our gateway to the new physicality. It is no different than the churches trying to control that narrative when people started reading bibles instead of having it read to them. It is history repeating itself, and the "government" is trying to dictate the terms of the dreamworld renaissance and who gets what power.

They know a change is afoot, brought about mostly from people having access to information (greater relationships), but they simply want to control this narrative by any means necessary.

These are all elements of perspective. All of these are a part of you. It is, naturally, resistance ;)

This resistance occurs in every way imaginable, and is mostly focused on the changes that the internet has brought about. Adobe spies on your web activity to gather, categorize, analyze, and report consumer-based information to other companies, organizations, and governments. Microsoft, Facebook, and others do the same through their tools.

Akamai, Amazon, Apple, AMD, Facebook, Google, Intel, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, cloud providers, anti-virus companies, telecommunication providers, media outlets, banks, airlines, hotel groups, "smart" whatever companies, etc., are all part of this narrative of resistance to the new physicality.

This is what is being played out and you're seeing resistance to the dreamworld right now. It's perfectly natural and welcome. But it will not survive the journey.

There are loads going on right now "behind the scenes". People are literally scrambling figuring out what is happening. Chaol was right in that no one knows what is really going on. We only know that something is happening. But what?

This process will play out, particularly in 2013. It is happening in waves, and the waves are eating away at this kind of physicality. These is a huge wave August 28th, but the dates don't matter so much. Neither do the particular events. They're just references to help navigate the process of what is occurring.

The internet is our bridge to the dreamworld. But the modes of the traditional physicality have no idea what they have spawned.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:23 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Yes, interesting times.

Especially when much of the industrialized world is helping their cause of resisting the dreamworld. CIA-funded operations created and promoted Facebook, and now it is an important way to capture the definition of your physicality (photos, events, friends, etc.)

Again, all a natural resistance to the dreamworld.

But what's next? Two main things:

1) Creating systems of reporting so that instead of you reporting on yourself (like Facebook) others will report on you.

(This also entails making a population not only afraid to do anything but suspicious of others and giving them the tools and reasons they need to report on others. But reporting on others will first need to be made "cool" like Facebook was.)

2) Creating a quantum computer so that any point in "time-space" can be accessed with loads of data (realistic images in the visible spectrum as well as sounds and other data from the invisible spectrum, and a trail from the object or place through the system)

This physical world will be destroyed before they manage to finish any of it.

But they sure are trying hard with long-term strategies, and I highly respect that.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:25 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Is there any evidence suggesting that an ancient civilization upon this earth developed a language attempting to serve the same purpose as Ec?

Thanks.
 Quoting: Mak 40050666

Every language is an attempt to interface with perspective.

But some of the inventors give up too soon.

Every aspect of our perspective (some of which are interpreted as ancient civilizations) makes an effort to do the same.

It is not that any fail, but each is useful in its own way.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:26 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, how's everyone doing?
Me, I just want to leave home.
 Quoting: tuuuuur

Are you sure about that?
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:27 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Get ready for the next round. June 12-18th.

Now is the quiet period.

The waves of energy have only just begun.
 Quoting: Chaol


Any remarks on Obama visiting Berlin? He'll be there June 19th, apparently giving a speech from Brandenburg gate.
[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: tuuuuur

Well, I hope that a good time is had by all.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 12:42 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
There is nothing beyond "A", but there is also no "A". The quest for "B" is also a quest for "A" (both of which do not exist) because they define each other and are thus the same thing from 2 perspectives.
 Quoting: Chaol


This is possibly where I get confused.

Somebody who is an expert in Ec knows (and tell to us who don't) that A and B do not exist in Ec reality (with, or without " ").

This somebody, also knows that for our type of physicality (as old Chaol would have called it),"The illusion is what matters, and point "B" is illustrated for you as a logical narrative so that a relationship is formed. (The relationship is an illusion, but it is "existence" for all intents and purposes.)"

Therefore, how come this somebody who knows that A and B do not exist, promote Ec as if they do?
 Quoting: panoukos

You've already answered it.

The importance is in the relationships, not the illusion. It does not matter if A and B are real. But the relationship is what matters.

But to further answer your question, illustrating A and B are useful to the understanding of what is happening.

Even this understanding is a type of relationship ;)

- "Ec is a way to take you from A to B"

- "Ec can make things more relative by bringing it closer to your perspective and, thus, your experience."

(the words "bringing" and "closer" imply the acknowledgement of the existence of two things that are "brought closer").

Why does this Ec expert have to be inconsistent to his reality/truth (to what he knows, sees and experience)? Is it because "the illusion, [which] is what matters", as you say, takes precedence over consistency even to the Ec expert?
 Quoting: panoukos

There are serious limitations with the English language.

Let's take the following example:

1) The sky is blue in color
2) the sky is not blue in color
3) the sky is red

Is #2 a contradiction of #1? On the surface it is an apparent contradiction. But when we understand the nature of language to simplify (represent) something else we can also say that there is no contradiction because we must first understand how/why it has been simplified.

All 3 are accurate. But perhaps only 1 is useful. And this is why language is useful, because we simplify something more complicated.

There is no contradiction because there is no simple way to represent what "blue" actually is, or what color is.

If there was a way to represent "the sky is every color except for blue, according to how human vision works" then there would be no apparent contradiction.

And, of course, the color may be different to an ant. To an ant, the sky may be red. (It is also red to you when it appears to be blue, among other colors.)

Which is true? None of them. Only the relationships matter. The relationships that allow you to understand (or not), the relationships that allow expressions, and the relationships that allow for other relationships.

As Chaol would say, truth does not matter. It cannot be expressed anyway. Only what is useful matters. (Relationships)

(because I cannot see the above for oldChaol, that is why I started my posts by saying that I am puzzled by this inconsistency-it had no reason to be there)

Please allow me the following hypothesis (because I am not an expert in Ec)
Wouldn't it be more consistent to say that

"as opposed to all other methods who promise you to make your wishes come true, mastering of Ec will render wishing irrelevant, because you will have no reason to wish (to imagine points Bs that do not exist anyway -and therefore neither do points As) for anything, simply because you could be able to experience everything that can be possibly be experienced by a human being at any "moment", rather than some-things in particular, at some times."

Would that be a legitimate claim for Ec? or am I still missing something?

Or, how else do you think one (expert) can state what Ec stands for, without implying the existence of A and B? (which is the "truth" of the other type of physicality that Chaol is talking about all these years)
 Quoting: panoukos

I hope the above helps to clarify the nature of the contradictions somewhat.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 01:05 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The actor and observer seem to be the same.

Both the actor and observer make up logic that is relative to them. You say that the observer doesn't see a reason to do anything but in this we're missing one important thing.

An observer cannot exist. It must "be" in relation with something else in order for there to be perspective. Therefore, an actor who is interacting (or relating).

The pure observer in your illustration has no relationship.
 Quoting: Chaol


I took the term "actor" from Chaol. He has termed "actors" all of us in this world.

For him to have the term actor in his mind, implying the existence of another term that is not an actor.
 Quoting: panoukos

If everyone is an actor then there are either no observers or actors are the same as observers.

But, for the sake of understanding let's follow your example.

That "not an actor", I took it from a post of his, that pretty much says

"Going from A to B.
-If you have no idea about Ec, will take you from 6 months to 4 years
-If you have a very good command of Ec, will take you 3 weeks
-If you are the guy who wrote Ec, will take you nanoseconds."

Now, in the first case we all identify ourselves-the actors.
we follow specific attitudes/processes so that we can experience stuff that we want in 6 months or 4 years.

The expert follows a different process/attitude and experiences anything in nanoseconds.

Let's see the distances.
"nanoseconds" is faster than start replying to a question you heard that you already know the answer.
More familiar though, would be that "nanoseconds" is the distance that takes one to observe

Hence the term Observer. You can of course call it "interactor" as you say, or "relator". Names do not matter.
 Quoting: panoukos

In this illustration, after how much time would one transition from actor to observer?

Would not the person experiencing it after nanoseconds also be an actor in this case?

The process is the same. What matters is how relative it is.

If knowing everything was relative to you right now, for example, then it would be experienced.

The reason I used these terms was more to depict (as I see it) the difference in the process/attitude followed. Not to invent a new point B ("i want to be an observer, because it will feel better") for me to start pursuing with the (whichever) familiar to me attitude. "Observer" is not a goal. It has been put instrumentally, so that I can understand what Chaol wants us to understand.

The difference (to me) seems to be the following:
The "actor" experiences the expectation of the arrival to or departure from As and Bs,
The "observer" experiences what he sees, because he knows how to experience what he sees. If he can see "everything", because "everything" is represented "here", then he can also experience "everything" at the speed of seeing.
 Quoting: panoukos

I think the answer would be that the same thing is occuring, just on a different 'scale' of awareness.

Are there things that you are observing now? Is there something you can experience now in a nanosecond?

Again, the process is the same. What matters is what is relative.

The only difference between a dust mite and an alien from another world is the relationships. But the process is the same for 'everyone' because it is all perspective.

The former associates experience and "event" (departure from A or arrival at B).
The latter associates experience and "process" ("seeing").
 Quoting: panoukos

We are each aware of the processes and events, but what do we use? What do we relate with this physical self? What is familiar and immediate to our physical senses?

And if one has to "focus on the process rather than events" as you rightly say, what kind of attitude does an "observer" uses that make him an "observer" and which is different to that of an "actor"?
 Quoting: panoukos

You would simply relate one event to the other.

It's all about relationships.

When we ramify, divide, or take apart something we get objects, events, parts.

When we relate things together we get other things, processes, wholes.

But even a process is a ramification of perspective ;)

The process is also an 'event' on a different scale. And the actor is the same as the observer.

By breaking things down we can relate to them in different ways, even understand them.

I would say (superficially) that an observer is one who states what he sees when asked, and talks of what he knows, consistently (because he sees no reason to do otherwise).
 Quoting: panoukos


In your example, the "observer" realizes that she does not know anything... because everything is related and cannot be wholly perceived.

It can only be "observed" by breaking it down. Thus the whole process begins again and the acting roles become more complicated in the forgetting.

An actor sometimes does the above but also states what he imagines and talks of what he believes-things that doesn't know/opinions.
 Quoting: panoukos

When we start to believe is when we start to forget.

Belief divides and focuses perspective.

Nothing is true.

Would that observer can "exist"?

Possibly not, if what I have hypothetically attributed to the "observer" in my posts could not be claimed for himself by the expert in Ec.
 Quoting: panoukos

Perhaps.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 01:13 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snippies]

Chaol does not do the latter. Therefore in the rare occasions he has been inconsistent in his statements, makes me wonder (still does) why he did it. Especially when he doesn't have any (visible) reason to be inconsistent, since he doesn't try to sell anything, because he doesn't have to and simply wants to be understood.

Unless he estimates that in order to be understood he has to be inconsistent "sometimes".

But then again that would have raised more questions that answers (anyway, that is irrelevant at the moment).[snappies]
 Quoting: panoukos

Chaol balances understanding with misunderstanding, so that you create something new in your perspective.

The idea is to give you just enough information so that you remember something is there, but allow you to figure it out for yourself.

Chaol is the monkey that crawls on the floor and shows you a magic trick. In this way you do not believe in the monkey (because you are distracted by him pretending not to be able to walk) but in your own ability to 'do better magic' and do more than monkey did.

A strange position for someone that packages the message but doesn't want you to see him deliver it.
Chaol

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06/19/2013 01:16 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I'll add my 2 cents :)


Conception is something becoming

perception always is.

As an alternate view point, it may be useful to assume time to time that Chaol's thread is a "trap." To keep one in thought.


If we "know" there is no A and B, then any thought is a "conception" but perception comes before conception.

All suffering, lack of joy, etc. is because of expectations, and thought forms that contribute to belief systems, giving away ones power to outside "things"

For example: If you are driving down the road, and change your frame of reference for what it might be like to a cave man, you could hype yourself up so much by being astounded that you are traveling in minutes what would take hours. That you are going 70 mph, listening to amazing music. And then be so hyped you can't help but scream in excitement....DAAAAAA ;)

The only reason we aren't blissed out from this experience, is because we are holding beliefs that there are better things, that there is something outside more "worthy" of getting joyful about. That there are things at all.

But if we are truly grounded in the "now" with no thoughts, we are only tending to the presence of perception itself. You are simply being, appreciating the "is-ness".

Its like being in the Theta state of your sleep schedule, through meditation. You are not thinking thoughts, but you are consciousness in a very dream like state, you are only attending to consciousness itself. There is nothing outside of yourself, there is just beingness.

So I think the trick Chaol is trying to get us to "think" about. IS focusing our attention on not focusing. By attending to no thing. Not having thoughts that cloud and distort the more true reality of simply being.

That is why a famous practice is reapeating to oneself "I AM" to loop that in your mind so that you are only focusing on the fact that you are present at that moment and nothing else.

unfocusing, and focusing on no/thing in particular I think are what Chaol would advise us to do.
 Quoting: Lok 39964291

We are the kid at the air show focused on our own rubberband planes trying to show everyone that we can do better, all the while completely ignoring the fascination that is occurring if we just allow for the experience.

There is still something there if we "unfocus" but we seem to think the bottom will fall out of existence if we do just that.
U3

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06/19/2013 01:21 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Anybody heard of Glenn Beck? Most of the people in Europe haven't, I guess.
Here he is announcing an event that sounds pretty darn big. Without revealing much he suggests there are some announcements being made the next few days that 'will change your world overnight'.
Though he is very american centered I can't help but think this has to do with the Odrama (haha! Geddit?) that chaol announced some time ago.

Thread: Glen Beck UPDATE on Major Announcement Coming -June 13th 2013

Drudge is using strong words as well in describing the next days...

Thread: Drudges last 2 tweets very ominous

something's up!
 Quoting: tuuuuur

As previously mentioned before in various ways, what is happening now on the world stage is the breakdown of Western civilization and of traditional physicality.

What is happening now with NSA "leaks" (they are not leaks) are all about the old physicality trying to keep power in the dreamworld.

These interests think that if they control the narrative they control the story and how it is interpreted. This is basically how it works because language is how we relate to physicality.

What you are seeing is the unveiling of a military-industrial partnership that is unveiled by the same group of people that manage these systems. (Again, these are all values of perspective. There is no conspiracy.)

They think by doing this they will take humanity to "the next level" on their terms. Their own slice of the dreamworld that functions under the same conditions as in the old physicality.

Essentially, the goal is to:

1) Manage people more effectively
2) Take control of systems that will allow them to perform #1

Much of this has to do with the power of the internet. The internet is our gateway to the new physicality. It is no different than the churches trying to control that narrative when people started reading bibles instead of having it read to them. It is history repeating itself, and the "government" is trying to dictate the terms of the dreamworld renaissance and who gets what power.

They know a change is afoot, brought about mostly from people having access to information (greater relationships), but they simply want to control this narrative by any means necessary.

These are all elements of perspective. All of these are a part of you. It is, naturally, resistance ;)

This resistance occurs in every way imaginable, and is mostly focused on the changes that the internet has brought about. Adobe spies on your web activity to gather, categorize, analyze, and report consumer-based information to other companies, organizations, and governments. Microsoft, Facebook, and others do the same through their tools.

Akamai, Amazon, Apple, AMD, Facebook, Google, Intel, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, cloud providers, anti-virus companies, telecommunication providers, media outlets, banks, airlines, hotel groups, "smart" whatever companies, etc., are all part of this narrative of resistance to the new physicality.

This is what is being played out and you're seeing resistance to the dreamworld right now. It's perfectly natural and welcome. But it will not survive the journey.

There are loads going on right now "behind the scenes". People are literally scrambling figuring out what is happening. Chaol was right in that no one knows what is really going on. We only know that something is happening. But what?

This process will play out, particularly in 2013. It is happening in waves, and the waves are eating away at this kind of physicality. These is a huge wave August 28th, but the dates don't matter so much. Neither do the particular events. They're just references to help navigate the process of what is occurring.

The internet is our bridge to the dreamworld. But the modes of the traditional physicality have no idea what they have spawned.
 Quoting: Chaol




So, I read this that we are already...all of us...in the Dream World. If this is so, why do we still of dream of it? Or, I suppose, there are different stages of perceiving the dream world, so we still dream of it...until it is perceived?