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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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06/29/2013 11:43 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Some reminders relative to Neo.Chaol's "current" direction with the thread.:
Hello Chaol, just want to thank you for one of the most interesting threads I've ever read. However, when you say:


You could convert sound, gamma rays, and other as-yet-undiscovered waves all you want but if you don't find a new way to cultivate a culture that does not care so much about endless profits then it will be all for naught.
How can we get rid of the parasitic oligarchy that rules this planet and refuses to allow advanced energy technologies?

How do you deal with a murderous kleptocracy (international banksters, oil companies, big pharma, military/industrial complex, etc.) that controls everything from medicine to the media?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1090656


Greetings!

Perhaps I should have typed, "if YOU don't find a new way to cultivate a culture that does not care so much about endless profits then it will be all for naught"

Here's where I go into a longged discussion about "who's perceiving these things you mention" and "how can we change what is perceived?"

The real question may be, "Why do we resist our perceptions?"

What do you think?
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


I think you're trying to say we create our own reality.

Well, after living for 5 decades on this messed-up planet, I'm ready for another experience. But it seems easier said than done.

What am I missing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1090656


Hmmm!

It's probably much more simple than is thought.

As I suggested above, we may often resist our perceptions. It sounds as though you may be doing a bit of that.

The more something is resisted the greater the likelihood that it would be further experienced.

Resistance is a type of focus.

I wouldn't really say that we create our own reality. I don't believe that would be accurate if we're talking about such things. However, it's easy enough to say and it conveys the general direction of the idea, I think.

The interesting thing is that out of 100 people that say it, no one can tell you how

Thanks!
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


I think you're trying to say we create our own reality.

Well, after living for 5 decades on this messed-up planet, I'm ready for another experience. But it seems easier said than done.

What am I missing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1090656


Again!

Like most of us, you probably do things routinely. Every day you walk, talk, chew, look, drive, sleep, etc., the same way.

And thus, think, dream, perceive, and have pretty much the same kinds of experiences. And the world seems the same.

What would happen if, over the period of 1 week, you did things in a way you could not have predicted?

How much do you think your perspective (and world) would change?
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


What would happen if, over the period of 1 week, you did things in a way you could not have predicted?

Not trying to be obtuse, but give me an example.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1090656


For example!

Getting dressed for no reason and going outside with no particular goal in mind. When a thought occurs to you, carry it out (if you can safely).

Introduce randomness into your life for a short period of time. This will seem completely crazy, of course, but it will have the effect of causing you to dramatically shift perspective.

When your immediate environment interacts in the same way every day, you end up with pretty much the same representations.

Everything today is fairly similar to yesterday because that's how you have it set up.

Replace the structure you've built up over the years with a new set of rules in order to experience a different result.

Introducing the randomness weakens the structure you have already. Just be sure to introduce a new structure. Often, the structure is the routine that we go through at each moment.

Some examples: sleep next to the refrigerator for a night, skip to work, wrap speaker wire around your legs, call someone randomly, imitate the next animal you see, cook up a pot of sugar, wear crazy clothes or a fake mustache... all for no reason whatsoever.

Yes, it's crazy. But you need some crazy sauce in order to bring out the flavor of the new perspective.
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


Even though it feels difficult to embrace the government industrial complex's wars, lies, and corruption along with their poisoning the air, water and food, as a thought experiment, I'll give it a try.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1090656


There will always be drama.

Attraction and repulsion is the nature of consciousness.

The problem arises when we think attraction and repulsion are two separate forces.

We may think that we're not attracted to the things we seem to hate, for example.

I'm suggesting that at times it may better suit us to know the extent of our own perceptions.

If we see lies, for example, we could think, "why do I feel that way?"

It is easy to get confused and think the we are our own focal point.

Our body is most relative to what we are, and it is us. But we often fail to see that what we are includes the entirety of our perceptions not just the most relative area (our body).

To embrace everything that we perceive is the difficult part. But parting our perceptions into good and bad creates an illusion quite difficult to embrace.
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


and to push the point further:

Hi Choal,

In these posts you have made several references to how relative we are to our own bodies, Well in the ecsys model can we make little subtle changes to our bodies.

I was attacked by a Brazil nut which was eventually consumed but broke one of my teeth in the process.


I was wondering if i could change my perspective of the broken tooth to a good tooth?

Which leads me to wonder if this is possible, as to if we can make other changes, pimples, sunspots,skin color, hair color or are we locked in to our physical perspective?

Thanks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1129345


Greetings!

There are two ways of looking at this.

The usual way would be to focus on the broken tooth (or illness, or whatever you don't want in your experience). This actually makes the broken tooth more relative to your experience, as you are interacting with it more. It will probably weaken the integrity of the other teeth, as well, as you are "exploring" the possibilities of broken-toothiness.

As a side note, I think one thing that may surprise most people (from my experience) is how attracted we are to the things we say we don't want. When we choose to interact with something more, it becomes a part of our experience, expectation, and perspective. What would happen when doctors focused more on health instead of illness, preachers on good things rather than about evil or 'the devil', society focusing on education or well-being rather than conflict, wars, violence, etc. We have only to turn on a television to see the kinds of the things that many of us are attracted to, even if we think we don't want those things. What is more interesting to most people? To hear about someone's health or illness?

The other way would be to interact more with the teeth that are not broken. In this way, we evolve the perspective of healthy teeth. We allow the healthy state of teeth to interact.

Similar to focusing on where a "problem" student is doing well instead of on the problem itself, we can explore those things that we want to see more of.

But the real question is, how relative is the broken tooth to your reality? A broken tooth is more than a broken tooth, of course. It is (yes! here comes that word again) a representation of something else.

What else has changed in your life within 2-3 weeks before or after the tooth broke? Does any pain or other effects of the tooth coincide with other events or conditions in your life? (For example)

Also, if a healthy tooth suddenly appearing in your mouth is part of your logical narrative in your current perspective (e.g., would that make sense to you if it happened?) then it could happen.

More probable (if you're like the rest of us) is a gradual return to health that makes sense to you.

How to influence this with Ecsys?

Basically: represent your 'desire', make the experience real (set up rules for it), and interact with it.

For example, if you didn't have the broken tooth (or illness) what would you do? Perhaps the following scenario: using a camera (potential energy) take a hundred photos of your beautiful smile (representation), sharing and/or looking at those photos (interaction), picking out 13 and framing them (structure).

(It can be the same with illness or anything else. A simple question to ask yourself is, "what would I do if...?" Could be a small detail or something larger.)

In this scenario the tooth does not change (there is no tooth) but the perspective changes. Depending on your elements (particularly with how you represent what you want, and the interaction), the broken tooth or illness will become irrelevant.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


Adding to the tooth post!!!


Can we use these models to change any other health related problems?

Or even aging?

Thanks
 Quoting: Vegatech


To add!

It would be quite difficult to maintain the same frame of mind as one had in much younger years.

If you could open your mind instead of closing it as you get older, make stress irrelevant, and minimize the stress of your cells, ageing would not be much of an issue.

Observe youth (or children) and try to figure out how they see the world. Becoming older we make continuous conscious decisions to abandon our youth and make "getting older" more relative to us. What things do we adopt into our lives that represent ageing? Where did our child-like wonder and imagination go? Knowing becomes more important than not-knowing. We often exercise to resist the ageing process, which actually makes us age faster. Ultimately we, not nature, end up ageing ourselves.

Some questions to ask yourself:

How are you interacting or associating with the ageing process? How do you see yourself?

How are you representing being older? (Sending signals of maturity to your peers, covering up your grey hair, exercising often, etc)

What rules on ageing have you adopted? (Thinking about retirement, what you're not supposed to do after a certain age, etc)

Again, we often create the very things we resist.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


[snip]
Similar to focusing on where a "problem" student is doing well instead of on the problem itself, we can explore those things that we want to see more of.
[snip]

 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


To add!

This isn't "positive thinking" per se.

True "positive thinking" is coincidental, not intentional. Oftentimes what people think is "positive thinking" is actually resisting certain behaviors, thoughts, actions, conditions, etc, which is likely to create the conditions you are resisting.

When you want something to disappear make it irrelevant to your perspective. This is different from ignoring something.

When you want something to appear make it highly relevant to your perspective. This is the same as perceiving it.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Chaol 1117976


Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 06/29/2013 12:11 PM
Nothing is irrelevant.
girlie45

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06/29/2013 12:06 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
saving
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06/29/2013 03:02 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Hehehe..i dunno whether i should go crazy but I guess you're part of my perspective as well.

Just curious with your nickname me (yea you) afro

If I may ask you so..is there any particular reason why you pick your nickname?

Will definetely take a look at the material as soon as I get rid of this one particular perspective that's been bothering me.

Well..its's really irrelevant to me (procrastinate for just another day).
 Quoting: Pip Squeak




I'd say I am part of your perspective, heh!!!!

I started out with a nickname of Unit3. I pretended I was an ET unit sent to Earth. It also sounds like Unity.

Then after several months, I shortened to U3....can't really remember why other than I like to change things up every so often. What surprises me is how often I get asked about my nickname and how 'others' have so many ideas about it.

So, wanna tell me about yours? ;o)

Getting rid of a perspective that bothers you? How are you planning on doing that, if you don't mind me asking. I have several options I use, with varying degrees of success.

I think you will like looking at the Ec charts, the 4 forces chart and the Code of Ecsys on the archived websites...among other goodies to be found there.

In fact, once you learn how to use the Ec language, it won't take you a day to make an element of your perspective irrelevant.
 Quoting: U3


The number 3 holds a special place in my heart. It's because I was born on the 3rd day of the month. It's the number of mystics and also the eldest of odds. I always felt being heavens dearest ;)(dunno if this makes sense). Lucky perhaps?

Please do share any short cut mind exercises which I can practice immediately to change my perspective. As of now, I am just making anything which needs my dire attention (important urgent matters) irrelevant up to the last minute. I'm a last minute kinda guy. I don't think or worry too much of my problems up to the last minute. Kinda carefree with life. It's nothing to be proud of. Infact, I feel certain things needs planning so Sdoesn'tHTF later on. But once I've mastered the genius, I believe great things are destine for me. Just need to procrastinate a couple of days more till I finally get to sit down and absorbed all that I've plan to read and practice.

Thank you my dear perspective for the kind gesture..I wish your life transcends immediately into the dreamworld you've always dream of ;)
 Quoting: Pip Squeak




hf

Just start learning the language of perception, known as Ec.
[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


...


Hehehe..i dunno whether i should go crazy but I guess you're part of my perspective as well.

Just curious with your nickname me (yea you) afro

If I may ask you so..is there any particular reason why you pick your nickname?

Will definetely take a look at the material as soon as I get rid of this one particular perspective that's been bothering me.

Well..its's really irrelevant to me (procrastinate for just another day).
 Quoting: Pip Squeak




I'd say I am part of your perspective, heh!!!!

I started out with a nickname of Unit3. I pretended I was an ET unit sent to Earth. It also sounds like Unity.

Then after several months, I shortened to U3....can't really remember why other than I like to change things up every so often. What surprises me is how often I get asked about my nickname and how 'others' have so many ideas about it.

So, wanna tell me about yours? ;o)

Getting rid of a perspective that bothers you? How are you planning on doing that, if you don't mind me asking. I have several options I use, with varying degrees of success.

I think you will like looking at the Ec charts, the 4 forces chart and the Code of Ecsys on the archived websites...among other goodies to be found there.

In fact, once you learn how to use the Ec language, it won't take you a day to make an element of your perspective irrelevant.
 Quoting: U3


The number 3 holds a special place in my heart. It's because I was born on the 3rd day of the month. It's the number of mystics and also the eldest of odds. I always felt being heavens dearest ;)(dunno if this makes sense). Lucky perhaps?

Please do share any short cut mind exercises which I can practice immediately to change my perspective. As of now, I am just making anything which needs my dire attention (important urgent matters) irrelevant up to the last minute. I'm a last minute kinda guy. I don't think or worry too much of my problems up to the last minute. Kinda carefree with life. It's nothing to be proud of. Infact, I feel certain things needs planning so Sdoesn'tHTF later on. But once I've mastered the genius, I believe great things are destine for me. Just need to procrastinate a couple of days more till I finally get to sit down and absorbed all that I've plan to read and practice.

Thank you my dear perspective for the kind gesture..I wish your life transcends immediately into the dreamworld you've always dream of ;)
 Quoting: Pip Squeak




hf

Just start learning the language of perception, known as Ec.
[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


I noticed a few files are missing in the web archives site. Such as the pdf for the pronunciations. You happen to have a copy?
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
hf

Just start learning the language of perception, known as Ec.
[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


I noticed a few files are missing in the web archives site. Such as the pdf for the pronunciations. You happen to have a copy?
 Quoting: Pip Squeak



Enlarge this image and you will see the pronunciations. They are underlined. (Sometimes just staring at the chart is enough to get things rolling.)



[link to 4.bp.blogspot.com]
U3

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06/29/2013 03:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
hf

Just start learning the language of perception, known as Ec.
[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


I noticed a few files are missing in the web archives site. Such as the pdf for the pronunciations. You happen to have a copy?
 Quoting: Pip Squeak




I wish I did have that pdf. The site went offline about 2 mos. after I got here. ;(

Enlarge this image and you will see the pronunciations. They are underlined. (Sometimes just staring at the chart is enough to get things rolling.)



[link to 4.bp.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3




Here are some posts, from Chaol's threads, on Ec
[link to ecworksheet.blogspot.com]





Thank you, MM! hf

Last Edited by U3 on 06/29/2013 03:42 PM
Chaol
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06/29/2013 03:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Last night, some of you have already joined me in my country partook in our first sex magik, astral journey. It was wonderful to become one body with you and guide you to the alternate universe.

Soon the women with father my star children.
Ambra
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06/29/2013 06:37 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
I notice the relationship of things around me become more clearer. Like they actually know they're part of my perspective.
[snips]

Pip Squeak
peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42303481


I really like this!
Tomorrow I'll interact keeping this in mind. Thanks.

[still up, awfully late at night... downloading Ubuntu...]
 Quoting: Ambra 42438075




Good luck. Let me know what you think.
 Quoting: U3


Losing my mind trying to figure out how to install Ubuntu. Not mac friendly, been up two nights in a row until dawn. Will figure it out eventually.

In the meantime, the fridge is again on the right path of working properly, after the set back. Great moments of silence. When I think back of past Geniuses (the hand made symbols) and the newly created words, I realize that I have to give it a little time to see results, sometimes as short as a week.

Regarding the home Genius, a friend of mine owns what I refer to as "the" house, the one I set my standards up against. A wonderful place I have interacted with for years. Today, I was given my own set of keys to that house, since I live nearby and he lives in the city, for emergencies and such. I take it as a great tangible symbol and a step forward in getting the keys to my new dream home! It's getting closer.

Still doing daily the logic of both Geniuses. :)
Ambra
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06/29/2013 06:48 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
OK, since I'm changing everything, in how I relate to the internet, I'm going to delete Gumpy (and all my blogs)) in the coming days. (I've had my email account since I got on the internet, 10-11 years ago, sigh! It's going too.)

So, if anyone wants any of the links to Ecsys materials, now is the time to grab them. As far as I know, I have all the links to the various Ecsys materials found on the net. And Pip Squeak, you might want to take a look at the archived Ecsys websites linked there. I think you will go nuts over them!

[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


Wow, nice blog and so much to go through! Do you have a time frame for when you'll delete it? :(
U3

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06/29/2013 07:57 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
OK, since I'm changing everything, in how I relate to the internet, I'm going to delete Gumpy (and all my blogs)) in the coming days. (I've had my email account since I got on the internet, 10-11 years ago, sigh! It's going too.)

So, if anyone wants any of the links to Ecsys materials, now is the time to grab them. As far as I know, I have all the links to the various Ecsys materials found on the net. And Pip Squeak, you might want to take a look at the archived Ecsys websites linked there. I think you will go nuts over them!

[link to gumpylife.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: U3


Wow, nice blog and so much to go through! Do you have a time frame for when you'll delete it? :(
 Quoting: Ambra 42545924





I may not delete it after all. (I actually have 9 blogs and 8 of them are dedicated to Ecsys, in some way. It's how I learned so much so fast.) Anyway, I'm considering some other changes. I just want to interact with the internet in a new way and there are lots of choices for that.

It seems like all of a sudden I have so much to do....change how I relate to the internet and re-define quite a bit of my reality with meme's. But, it's kinda exciting, too!

I'm sorry getting your new os is taking so much but I am sure it will be worth it, in the end! Thanks for the update. It confirms to me that's probably not the route I needed to take.

I love you were given the keys to your friend's house. I agree, it's right in line with your Genius. Did you remember that whenever this happens with a Genius, to make a new symbol?

Btw, I healed my toilet (rolling eyes) by moving my hands around the outside of it until I found a "spot" that seemed to react......and put my hands on it and saw the gaskets as brand new. That was almost a month ago, and so far so good. Maybe you could try that with your refrigerator.
U3

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06/29/2013 08:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Some reminders relative to Neo.Chaol's "current" direction with the thread.:
 Quoting: MutantMessiah

Replace the structure you've built up over the years with a new set of rules in order to experience a different result.

The problem arises when we think attraction and repulsion are two separate forces.

We may think that we're not attracted to the things we seem to hate, for example.

I'm suggesting that at times it may better suit us to know the extent of our own perceptions.

If we see lies, for example, we could think, "why do I feel that way?"

It is easy to get confused and think the we are our own focal point.

Our body is most relative to what we are, and it is us. But we often fail to see that what we are includes the entirety of our perceptions not just the most relative area (our body).


To embrace everything that we perceive is the difficult part. But parting our perceptions into good and bad creates an illusion quite difficult to embrace.
 Quoting: Chaol


As a side note, I think one thing that may surprise most people (from my experience) is how attracted we are to the things we say we don't want. When we choose to interact with something more, it becomes a part of our experience, expectation, and perspective. What would happen when doctors focused more on health instead of illness, preachers on good things rather than about evil or 'the devil', society focusing on education or well-being rather than conflict, wars, violence, etc. We have only to turn on a television to see the kinds of the things that many of us are attracted to, even if we think we don't want those things. What is more interesting to most people? To hear about someone's health or illness?

 Quoting: Chaol



What a wonderful compilation of posts, MM. Thank you. hf

This last post, re: interacting with things we focus on, is something I'd like to discuss. It sort of concerned me to do meme's that were more direct, such as GMO is now OMG! However, I decided the shock value is good so as to awaken the mind.

I posted a couple of meme's here for Neo's response. One was TPTB=TWUW (those who united the world). There are so many ways to look at our perspective, I finally started making meme's for many different levels of understanding because that's what I see (and feel, actually.)

What I have enjoyed about the meme's is I am actually doing something with many parts of my perspective I've just kind of ignored. What I really liked is how Chaol talked about consciousness has to have attraction/repulsion and to see them as the same. One cannot exist without the other.
tuuuuur

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Couldn't resist to take the chance to make the 11,111th reply!
tuuuuur

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
I notice the relationship of things around me become more clearer. Like they actually know they're part of my perspective.
[snips]

Pip Squeak
peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42303481


I really like this!
Tomorrow I'll interact keeping this in mind. Thanks.

[still up, awfully late at night... downloading Ubuntu...]
 Quoting: Ambra 42438075




Good luck. Let me know what you think.
 Quoting: U3


Losing my mind trying to figure out how to install Ubuntu. Not mac friendly, been up two nights in a row until dawn. Will figure it out eventually.

In the meantime, the fridge is again on the right path of working properly, after the set back. Great moments of silence. When I think back of past Geniuses (the hand made symbols) and the newly created words, I realize that I have to give it a little time to see results, sometimes as short as a week.

Regarding the home Genius, a friend of mine owns what I refer to as "the" house, the one I set my standards up against. A wonderful place I have interacted with for years. Today, I was given my own set of keys to that house, since I live nearby and he lives in the city, for emergencies and such. I take it as a great tangible symbol and a step forward in getting the keys to my new dream home! It's getting closer.

Still doing daily the logic of both Geniuses. :)
 Quoting: Ambra 42545924


If you need help, feel free to ask me any time. Have Ubuntu up and running right now. As I was using all those open source apps already (Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Filezilla), the switch doesn't feel that hard.

Had a tough time with the default so called Window manager though; switched to Cinnamon and now I can actually use it a lot better.

Here is a how to on Cinnamon (with the exact commands that you can copy/paste into the Terminal to install)
[link to www.ubuntugeek.com]
panoukos

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06/30/2013 09:26 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
All that can be said at this time has been said.

It has been a pleasure communicating with all of you and discussing these things.

My awareness of practically everything under the sun has increased exponentially since day 1, and you all have something to do with that.

That you for being a part of my journey, and I am glad to be a part of yours and know that deep down it is our single journey.

Some things will not make sense just yet, but it is there to be understood if we relate to it. And so time marches on, and new worlds are conveyed. We will always have perspective, so let us use it wisely.

With great hope and happiness, I will see some of you in a few months.

Take care :)
 Quoting: Chaol


It has been an amazing mental journey all these years.

I accidentally came across with chaol's website, and then accidentally came to this thread (there were no links of the thread to the web site).

I cannot remember what I was searching back then (i think it was about biometrics), when the "ecsys.org" came as a link. Now, "ecsys" in my mother tongue sounds like "eksis", which means 'addiction' and I was curious to read what "greek" was that ecsys about.

Four years later, I came up with the following, which to me (that is, "it fits my personal perspective", as Jesse would have said) encapsulates chaol's teachings and can be used as a (good or bad) compass for further understanding.

Thanks to your last reply ("it is not a contradiction"), I came up (for me to understand it) with this Ec "definition", which is consistent and not self-contradictory. So, after all:

Ecsys: It takes you from A to B, so that ...you won't have to. (go on your own, that is)

Does one want to have to, or does one want to not have to?
If one takes the "going from A to B" as an act of will, the question becomes "does one want to have to will, or does one want not to have to will?"

But this is tricky, because you cannot will to not have to will and that is why (I think) it is so difficult for all of us to adopt and think in Ec.

As a greek had put it: "To not want the nothing, to want the nothing, to not wanting. These are the three climaxes of the will".

By the way, if it serves any purpose, the fact that we cannot know the thing in itself (and only as a relation to something else) is known since Plato. But Chaol brought it to its last consequence.

"Enjoy the Silence" everybody!
[link to www.youtube.com]
hf
know thy word
U3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Ecsys: It takes you from A to B, so that ...you won't have to. (go on your own, that is)

Does one want to have to, or does one want to not have to?

If one takes the "going from A to B" as an act of will, the question becomes "does one want to have to will, or does one want not to have to will?"

But this is tricky, because you cannot will to not have to will and that is why (I think) it is so difficult for all of us to adopt and think in Ec.

As a greek had put it: "To not want the nothing, to want the nothing, to not wanting. These are the three climaxes of the will".

By the way, if it serves any purpose, the fact that we cannot know the thing in itself (and only as a relation to something else) is known since Plato. But Chaol brought it to its last consequence.

"Enjoy the Silence" everybody!
[link to www.youtube.com]
hf
 Quoting: panoukos




Lovely, Panoukous! hf

And here's a link to the same song, live, that our country has not blocked.

Ambra
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07/01/2013 06:23 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I may not delete it after all. (I actually have 9 blogs and 8 of them are dedicated to Ecsys, in some way. It's how I learned so much so fast.) Anyway, I'm considering some other changes. I just want to interact with the internet in a new way and there are lots of choices for that.

It seems like all of a sudden I have so much to do....change how I relate to the internet and re-define quite a bit of my reality with meme's. But, it's kinda exciting, too!

I'm sorry getting your new os is taking so much but I am sure it will be worth it, in the end! Thanks for the update. It confirms to me that's probably not the route I needed to take.

I love you were given the keys to your friend's house. I agree, it's right in line with your Genius. Did you remember that whenever this happens with a Genius, to make a new symbol?

Btw, I healed my toilet (rolling eyes) by moving my hands around the outside of it until I found a "spot" that seemed to react......and put my hands on it and saw the gaskets as brand new. That was almost a month ago, and so far so good. Maybe you could try that with your refrigerator.
 Quoting: U3


I am glad you will not be deleting your blog!

Taking a couple of days break from trying to install Ubuntu. I will also do some cleaning up of the hard drive first, too crowded with old files.

So I should make a new symbol each time there is a step forward? I am confused about that, could you tell me more? The symbol I am currently using is so that my new home would make itself known to me (through ads or other)... Wouldn't that still be current?

Right, I remember you mentioned moving your hands around the broken item. My fridge is enclosed in a cabinet, but I will try. Maybe to regulate the thermostat better. It's very quiet right now, it's definitely improving each day!
Ambra
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07/01/2013 06:38 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
If you need help, feel free to ask me any time. Have Ubuntu up and running right now. As I was using all those open source apps already (Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Filezilla), the switch doesn't feel that hard.

Had a tough time with the default so called Window manager though; switched to Cinnamon and now I can actually use it a lot better.

Here is a how to on Cinnamon (with the exact commands that you can copy/paste into the Terminal to install)
[link to www.ubuntugeek.com]
 Quoting: tuuuuur


Thank you tuuuuur!
What I was trying to do, is create a bootable USB drive and run it from there, without deleting my OS first. To try it out. Still have to back up a lot of stuff.

Apparently, this is not easy when on a mac due to the new .iso file, and all instructions using the terminal do not work with Ubuntu 13.04. Other users have the same problems, reading from the forums and help sections. They are having problems even creating the live DVD to launch it.

I've been up hours on end, using the terminal, to no avail.

The only cool program that helps with that, is not good for my OS (requires Lion). I can use either Tiger or Snow Leopard.

Is Cinnamon a "flavor" of Ubuntu? It's a new world and still have to learn all the differences.

If you are using a mac, how did you install it? Using a bootable CD? Which version of Ubuntu? (13.04 is too large for a regular CD) The one from the main download page, or a version with the .iso that says "+mac"?
tuuuuur

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07/01/2013 06:50 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
For Ubuntu 13.04 you need to make a bootable DVD.
I'd stay away from making a bootable USB stick,tried to do that once but with mixed results; plus, I never got that to work on a mac.

Right now I got a PC-laptop I got for free (because the screen has got a big black line running through it). I have got to read around the line but for the rest it runs all modern OS'es (including Mac OS X... ;-) ).

Cinnamon is a window manager. A window manager is just a way to interact graphically with the operating system and is actually just a piece of software.

Here is a great starting point for installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro:
[link to help.ubuntu.com (secure)]
U3

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07/01/2013 08:19 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I may not delete it after all. (I actually have 9 blogs and 8 of them are dedicated to Ecsys, in some way. It's how I learned so much so fast.) Anyway, I'm considering some other changes. I just want to interact with the internet in a new way and there are lots of choices for that.

It seems like all of a sudden I have so much to do....change how I relate to the internet and re-define quite a bit of my reality with meme's. But, it's kinda exciting, too!

I'm sorry getting your new os is taking so much but I am sure it will be worth it, in the end! Thanks for the update. It confirms to me that's probably not the route I needed to take.

I love you were given the keys to your friend's house. I agree, it's right in line with your Genius. Did you remember that whenever this happens with a Genius, to make a new symbol?

Btw, I healed my toilet (rolling eyes) by moving my hands around the outside of it until I found a "spot" that seemed to react......and put my hands on it and saw the gaskets as brand new. That was almost a month ago, and so far so good. Maybe you could try that with your refrigerator.
 Quoting: U3


I am glad you will not be deleting your blog!

Taking a couple of days break from trying to install Ubuntu. I will also do some cleaning up of the hard drive first, too crowded with old files.

So I should make a new symbol each time there is a step forward? I am confused about that, could you tell me more? The symbol I am currently using is so that my new home would make itself known to me (through ads or other)... Wouldn't that still be current?

Right, I remember you mentioned moving your hands around the broken item. My fridge is enclosed in a cabinet, but I will try. Maybe to regulate the thermostat better. It's very quiet right now, it's definitely improving each day!
 Quoting: Ambra 42629097




I only got a few details, on the follow-up symbol, before Chaol left. But, my understanding is, once you get a symbol that means your Genius delivered. So, you devise another symbol and put it in another space. (I'm not clear if it needs to be a different space. Chaol always said a new symbol needs a new space so I go with that.) Personally, I put the follow-up symbol in a new space.


Also, it shakes your Genius up to refresh it. In fact, Marshqiggle introduced me to something she learned from Chaol, called an "expanded perspective." When you change anything in your Genius, it seems to awaken the mind. You can just change the logic, which is illustrated in our re-defining our reality and changing how we interact with the internet.
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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07/01/2013 08:58 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Imagine for a moment, that what you're reading now, you have experienced before...

The moment you began to consider the words before you, you came to a realization you were "here" reading these words and somehow also "somewhere" else.

In this "somewhere" else, you understood that you may only maintain one perspective at once and that "there" is not so "relevant" to "here" and that when you "return" to "here" you will not recall what was simultaneously "occurring" there. Yet "there", you had a deep and thorough understanding of what was occurring "here" before you. The experience you had, are having, and will have is occurring both "here" and "there" simultaneously and not at all.

"There" you can see that nothing is actually occurring at all, here you can not see that anything other than the consideration of this text before you is actually occurring. If you find that it's your first time reading this text, it makes sense that you feel that it's the first time you've considered this. It's not.

"There" you've made an agreement with yourself "here". This agreement allows you to maintain "this" perspective in it's entirety as you'd prefer it to be. In order for the integrity of "here", you've chosen to forget and distance yourself from the unbounded understanding you hold so easily "there".

"There" you are the "Genie" and "here" you get to allow your wishes to play out beyond the understanding that you had even wished in the first place. This is why this information you're perceiving before you is both "alien" and "familiar".

You talk as if you want to "control" your reality. As if you're interested in taking the reins and moving perspective in the way you want it to be. You have, are and will always hold the "reins". You've made a purposeful decision to forget so that you can participate in an ever richer illusion of "reality" with ever deeper meaning embedded within the cascading chaos of nothing.

"There" you have no "fear" of dis-integrating, because you're not limited in any way. This sense of fear is a tool you use to sustain the integrity of "here".

You've returned "here" and "there" has faded again for the first time as a dream fades by shutting off your alarm. All of your experience here, the text on the screen, your memories of your child hood, your good times and your bad returning to you as you believe you recall them.

Here you are (again)... are you starting to re-member?

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/01/2013 01:33 PM
Nothing is irrelevant.
U3

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07/01/2013 12:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To: MM

hf

Last Edited by U3 on 07/01/2013 03:03 PM
LOK
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07/01/2013 05:19 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
lulz, now what?
Ambra
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07/01/2013 07:15 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
For Ubuntu 13.04 you need to make a bootable DVD.
I'd stay away from making a bootable USB stick,tried to do that once but with mixed results; plus, I never got that to work on a mac.

Right now I got a PC-laptop I got for free (because the screen has got a big black line running through it). I have got to read around the line but for the rest it runs all modern OS'es (including Mac OS X... ;-) ).

Cinnamon is a window manager. A window manager is just a way to interact graphically with the operating system and is actually just a piece of software.

Here is a great starting point for installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro:
[link to help.ubuntu.com (secure)]
 Quoting: tuuuuur


Right. I think my optical drive has dust, it gives me an error. Will have to get a cleaner or another blank DVD.

My MBP is now considered "vintage" :( Though still very sleek and running perfectly. Unfortunately, there is no data available for my model on the MacBookPro help page. Some say it's 32 bit, but having an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, it should be 64 bit.

I will try with the bootable DVD (though some have tried it and it still doesn't work, they say). For now, I am cleaning up the hard drive from old junk, which may very well be related to the ever-recreating clutter at home.

Soon, I will try both the 32 and 64 versions of Ubuntu on a DVD and let you know of any success with it.

Which version of Ubuntu did you install?
Ambra
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07/01/2013 07:30 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I only got a few details, on the follow-up symbol, before Chaol left. But, my understanding is, once you get a symbol that means your Genius delivered. So, you devise another symbol and put it in another space. (I'm not clear if it needs to be a different space. Chaol always said a new symbol needs a new space so I go with that.) Personally, I put the follow-up symbol in a new space.


Also, it shakes your Genius up to refresh it. In fact, Marshqiggle introduced me to something she learned from Chaol, called an "expanded perspective." When you change anything in your Genius, it seems to awaken the mind. You can just change the logic, which is illustrated in our re-defining our reality and changing how we interact with the internet.
 Quoting: U3



This is interesting, and new to me.

Is the follow-up symbol in addition to the original Genius? Does that mean I have to work with both?
What I am not clear about is how to handle the follow up with the intent, as compared to the original Genius. Even if it delivered a symbol, still it's not the complete picture yet. So the original Genius is not obsolete... what is the role and goal one has to set with the follow up one? Unless it's a replacement.

Regarding changing the logic of the current Genius, I'd like to know more. I thought that one had to create a new Genius all together, rather than making changes to it. The concept is interesting, though, and it seems related to re-defining.

I just want to make sure I am not side tracking or interrupting the process, with the logic I set up, which may be in the works, and close to delivery.

Could I be possibly be pointed out to where Chaol mentioned it?
Ambra
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07/01/2013 07:43 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Very nicely put, MM!

Allow me to play on the paradox:
Since we agreed to forget in order to experience the "here", there is no way we can truly ever remember the "there". We can pretend we remember, we can think we remember. But when one remembers, one goes instantly "there" [the alarm clock bell went off, interrupting the dream], the forgetting is shattered, and so is the "here".

Upon remembering, "here" becomes "there", and "there" is finally "here".
panoukos

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07/01/2013 07:44 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
"There" you've made an agreement with yourself "here"....In order for the integrity of "here", you've chosen to forget...
...

...Here you are (again)... are you starting to re-member?
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Why would one break the agreement with...oneself?

Or, how would you know when the agreement has ended?

What will happen to the integrity of "here" when you will re-member?...
know thy word
MutantMessiah
Jesse

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07/01/2013 09:28 PM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Lol, Came across that idea in meditation. It was inspired in response to a discussion U3 and I were having regarding Panoukos's:
Does one want to have to, or does one want to not have to?
If one takes the "going from A to B" as an act of will, the question becomes "does one want to have to will, or does one want not to have to will?"


I had hesitated to even post it as it seems kinda presumptuous. It's best to remind everyone that I don't know what I am talking about.

Very nicely put, MM!

Allow me to play on the paradox:
Since we agreed to forget in order to experience the "here", there is no way we can truly ever remember the "there". We can pretend we remember, we can think we remember. But when one remembers, one goes instantly "there" [the alarm clock bell went off, interrupting the dream], the forgetting is shattered, and so is the "here".

Upon remembering, "here" becomes "there", and "there" is finally "here".
 Quoting: Ambra 42662642

herethere
I guess you're always "here" because where ever you go, "there" you are (lol). Even when we are able to successfully re-member "there" it's in random conversations with strangers, sung to us in songs on the radio, a memo at work, on a billboard on the side of the highway, or maybe sketched into the clouds. It's always wrapped in the cascading chaos nothing at the fringe of perspective. Made up of the stuff you didn't want to do but thought you'd take a chance.
rockon

"There" you've made an agreement with yourself "here"....In order for the integrity of "here", you've chosen to forget...
...

...Here you are (again)... are you starting to re-member?
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Why would one break the agreement with...oneself?

Or, how would you know when the agreement has ended?

What will happen to the integrity of "here" when you will re-member?...
 Quoting: panoukos


I know many reasons I'd break an agreement with myself. Would you ever break an agreement with yourself?

Since it's an agreement with yourself, I'd imagine it would end when you make the decision to end it.

The integrity will remain. You are all-ways here and there is always there. You're always putting limitations on yourself imposed upon you "here" from "there" and forgetting that you just did that.

That's what Chaol's Genie err Genius is all about.
hf

If there is nothing Neuronics can not do, why not take death out of one's perspective? And old age? Disease, deformity etc:.
 Quoting: Unit3


If those things did not have some benefit then it would not be experienced.

There once was a boy who met a genie. The genie gave him 3 wishes.

"I wish for and endless supply of wishes" the boy commanded.

"Very well" said the genie. "You have an endless supply, and two more wishes after that."

The first wish that the boy wished for was a spaceship to take him far from Earth. He traveled far, and along the way he wished for things like air, food, water, friends to play with, and more.

Although the journey to other worlds was fun, after a while he grew tired and wished for an endless amount of physical energy so that he'll never have to rest.

He still had an unlimited supply of wishes left, which comforted him. Yet, he was still quite lonely because he continued to realize that his friends were not real. They only came to be and came to play because he wished it.

It was all an illusion, really.

He eventually came back to Earth because he grew lonely and missed the things he could not control. He missed fighting with his brother because it also meant that he liked making up with him. He missed his homework because it gave him something to do and meant that he would have a sense of accomplishment. He missed his parents because even though he had problems and it wasn't a perfect family, they have been there since the beginning.

After considering all of this for quite some time he decided that life is better left to its own elements.

His second wish was to 'undo' his first wish, and return the endless supply of wishes back to the genie.

He lived a happy life for a number of years. But still, in the back of his mind was the lingering thought that it was all an illusion. That somehow his life, which he was now quite happy with, is something that he wished for. He wanted to feel more secure and that. He wanted life to be itself and to be as real as it could possibly be.

What an awful thought! To think that even he is not real and does not exist. "What could be worse that having absolutely no value?", he would think. This troubled him too much, and one day he came to a decision.

Finally used his third wish.

"I wish I never met the genie"

And in a puff of smoke the genie vanished.
 Quoting: Chaol

As an addendum to the above, the enterprising mind may want to think about how I work with the Genius.

Of course I will not tell you how exactly (figuring it out is half of the fun!) but I will tell you a story.

There once was a boy named Peter,
who wanted to teleport far far away.
His dog had died and his mother cursed,
and he just wanted to escape that day.

"Oh how! How can I get the fudge out of my fridge?", said he
When his eyes had cleared from the heart that teared,
magically there appeared a genie.

"Aren't you the genie from the last story?", said Peter.

"Indeed, but you're not to remember that anymore!", the genie said, surprised.
"What else do you remember from before?"

"I remember that if I symbolize a place I wish to be,
and make sure not to forget the other three,
then my world will change", spoke Peter.

"Is that all? And then you're free?" asked the genie.

Peter remembered, "No. Not just yet. I must narrow my range!"
The genie raised his eyebrow.
Peter continued, "Instead of visualizing it in time space I must relate here with there.
I can think of any random thing, from a rolling meadow to a stray hair.
..and make it weird!"

"You are correct. Well done!" said the genie, twisting his beard.
"It is when we see where we wish to go here and now that we see the portal to it. And by making up a logic for that thing we pull ourselves there as our mind relates the there-logic to the here-logic. Indeed, the logic is our path."

"Of course!" exclaimed Peter.
"The logic is our path.
"I need not know how. I need not do the maths.
"I need only think of something-anything-and my mind will start to make sense of it, at the same time taking me to where I wish to go!"

And in a satisfied puff of smoke, the genie disappeared.

Peter was soon to follow.
 Quoting: Chaol


Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/01/2013 09:54 PM
Nothing is irrelevant.
U3

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07/01/2013 09:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I only got a few details, on the follow-up symbol, before Chaol left. But, my understanding is, once you get a symbol that means your Genius delivered. So, you devise another symbol and put it in another space. (I'm not clear if it needs to be a different space. Chaol always said a new symbol needs a new space so I go with that.) Personally, I put the follow-up symbol in a new space.


Also, it shakes your Genius up to refresh it. In fact, Marshqiggle introduced me to something she learned from Chaol, called an "expanded perspective." When you change anything in your Genius, it seems to awaken the mind. You can just change the logic, which is illustrated in our re-defining our reality and changing how we interact with the internet.
 Quoting: U3



This is interesting, and new to me.

Is the follow-up symbol in addition to the original Genius? Does that mean I have to work with both?
What I am not clear about is how to handle the follow up with the intent, as compared to the original Genius. Even if it delivered a symbol, still it's not the complete picture yet. So the original Genius is not obsolete... what is the role and goal one has to set with the follow up one? Unless it's a replacement.

Regarding changing the logic of the current Genius, I'd like to know more. I thought that one had to create a new Genius all together, rather than making changes to it. The concept is interesting, though, and it seems related to re-defining.

I just want to make sure I am not side tracking or interrupting the process, with the logic I set up, which may be in the works, and close to delivery.

Could I be possibly be pointed out to where Chaol mentioned it?
 Quoting: Ambra 42662642



I have it on my blog....somewhere, lol! And it might be on the Genius blog. I'll check and make sure I have a link to the Genius blog on the main blog (Gumpy)

I'm not real clear on it myself. I found out just before Chaol left, last time. But, basically, you have options:

1) new symbol, old Genius
2)new symbol, new logic, old Genius
3)old symbol, new logic, old Genius
4)everything new but in line with old Genius. IE: instead of new home, the Genius could be receipt for den furniture. (assuming you don't have a den in current home.)

We use a Genius 24/7, so don't be concerned about the old Genius (imo) They are still out there but your new one will be the most current.

I've experimented around with the different choices but can't say as I am good enough to really mention which works best. But, when a symbol comes in for me, I start at least with a new symbol. Remember, Chaol wanted us to get to the point of creating a Genius, on-the-fly. When you really get them to popping for you, this is a valuable skill.
U3

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07/01/2013 10:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
"There" you've made an agreement with yourself "here"....In order for the integrity of "here", you've chosen to forget...
...

...Here you are (again)... are you starting to re-member?
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Why would one break the agreement with...oneself?

Or, how would you know when the agreement has ended?

What will happen to the integrity of "here" when you will re-member?...
 Quoting: panoukos




How would you know there is an agreement?

If it is an agreement, where would it be made and when? Here or there......since everything is here. We spend almost as much of our experience in the Dream World as we do here, if not more.

Maybe all of this experience is a blink of an eye, a thought returning to Itself.

Last Edited by U3 on 07/01/2013 11:09 PM
tuuuuur

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07/02/2013 04:04 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
For Ubuntu 13.04 you need to make a bootable DVD.
I'd stay away from making a bootable USB stick,tried to do that once but with mixed results; plus, I never got that to work on a mac.

Right now I got a PC-laptop I got for free (because the screen has got a big black line running through it). I have got to read around the line but for the rest it runs all modern OS'es (including Mac OS X... ;-) ).

Cinnamon is a window manager. A window manager is just a way to interact graphically with the operating system and is actually just a piece of software.

Here is a great starting point for installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro:
[link to help.ubuntu.com (secure)]
 Quoting: tuuuuur


Right. I think my optical drive has dust, it gives me an error. Will have to get a cleaner or another blank DVD.

My MBP is now considered "vintage" :( Though still very sleek and running perfectly. Unfortunately, there is no data available for my model on the MacBookPro help page. Some say it's 32 bit, but having an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, it should be 64 bit.

I will try with the bootable DVD (though some have tried it and it still doesn't work, they say). For now, I am cleaning up the hard drive from old junk, which may very well be related to the ever-recreating clutter at home.

Soon, I will try both the 32 and 64 versions of Ubuntu on a DVD and let you know of any success with it.

Which version of Ubuntu did you install?
 Quoting: Ambra 42662642


Again, I didn't install on a MacBook right now. But my advice would be to stay with the 32 bit versions, especially if you have older hardware. Good luck!
Marshwiggle

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07/02/2013 11:01 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I believe you can use the following exercise for a more advanced illustration of Ecsys.

But first, a synopsis of the elements.

Symbol - a representation of anything else

Interaction - when a symbol (including yourself) relates with an other symbol

Possibility - the potential energy of a symbol (without interaction of any kind)

Logic - structure or order of any kind

(for your reference, see [link to ecsys.org] )

Expanded Perspective Exercise

As an exercise we will take one of the above elements (as it seems in our perspective) and remove the other elements that enable it to form your reality.

Let's say that I have a symbol; an old coin that my grandfather gave me. (A symbol can be anything. Everything that you can sense is a symbol. It need not have a special meaning.)

For us to expand our perspective in this exercise means that you are realizing how it is a value of your perspective, not a separate thing outside of who you are. We can do this exercise with one thing, move on to other things, and then eventually feel more at ease with expanding our perspective to include more of what we are (everything in it, and without it).

As we reconnect we first get an idea for how the other elements work with the symbol. This means identifying, from your perspective, how it Interacts, where its Possibilities converge, and what its Logic is.

We may realize that no one else interacts with it. However, keep in mind that interaction is about perspective rather than people. If it's kept in the closet then it is also interacting with the other items in the closet and its environment, because it has developed a relationship with those things. It also interacts with other similar coins because that may be how you value it, even if those coins are nowhere near its physical space. Farther, we keep it in the closet in a small plastic envelope (possibility and potential energy; or its "space" if that suits you better). For logic, every year around Christmas (when grandpa gave it to us) we take it out and polish it.

To expand your perspective, change the values of the elements. When you change the values you are not only changing your relationship with that thing but seeing how expansive your perspective really is.

Interaction - change its relationships with other things.

Possibility - change the space in which it rests. Take it out of its plastic envelope and find a new home for it.

Logic - Change or create a new structure for it.

The above exercise is actually quite simple. You take an element (any element of the 4), define the other 3 elements around it, and change the values of those elements.

If your chosen thing is of the logic element then edit its symbol, possibilities, and interaction. If it's of the potential energy (possibility) element then play around with its logic, interaction, and symbol. Et cetera.

By doing this exercise you are expanding your own interpretation of the elements. When you do it for one thing in your reality you are learning how to do it for all, as there is no real difference between the two.

Eventually, you may be comfortable enough to do this automatically throughout the day. For example, you may find that when you look at your sun and realize its elements you can actually become it.

Time and space will then be just references for you. You'll perceive less separation between you and 'anything else'. There will be much less limit to what you can perceive (and do) because you will have more conscious influence about your perspective.

Hope this helps. This is still 'basic' (though not very basic) but it may prove valuable to many of you, if done.

Let me know if something can be clarified.
 Quoting: Chaol


Could I be possibly be pointed out to where Chaol mentioned it?
 Quoting: Ambra 42662642


Is this what you were referring to, Ambra?

I find this exercise very inspiring, still. Although I did some work on it, I don't fully understand it. Anyone fancy trying it again? Chaol makes it sound so promising!

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