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# Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

U3

User ID: 9834739
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07/03/2013 01:59 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I'll leave the blog up but there won't be any new additions, starting in about a week.

Neo said August 28th for the nexus coming up, correct?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 07/03/2013 10:50 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
MutantMessiah

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07/03/2013 06:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Interesting eh?

many people think that dimensions are achieved or spawned or realized through extension, or movement in a new direction
this is incorrect
dimensional phenomena is the result of relationships, and specifically feedbackloop relationships. or in other words, something in relation to itself
this is similar to math theory or philosophy wherein nothing, or the empty set, or zero, when considered, becomes something, altogether, in itself. Thus there is something, and it is nothing. Likewise, there is necessarily a set which could be said to contain the empty set, also known as zero. Thus the set of the empty set is actually the concept of the number 1. And 2 is merely the set of the set of the empty set known as one, and so forth goes all mathematical phenomena.
Applying this to dimensional theory we see that what is said to be the zero-th dimension is but a point
Another point, in whatever direction actually necessistates a dimension, and it is known as a line. Thus, it could be said, merely understanding a point's relationship to a point results in the concept of a line, which is the first dimension.
Likewise, a line's relationship to another line, even if parallel necessitates the second dimension which is known as a plane.
Contort the plane however you want in the third, and you will never necessitate the third dimension. Rather once you consider another plane, well then you have your third dimension. It is called a space.

And this is where the buck stops for most people before they begin to postulate what persists beyond this point. Three dimensions and no more, say some. Others come up with irrational or illogical shapes and call it a dimension. This is due to the fact that they think in terms of extension, which is working backwards, which you will see.

Space is everywhere, so one cannot extend in the traditional sense. So when you relate a space to another space, what you now have is a concept which can best be described by the following: a partition, a density, a shape, an amount, but the best way to describe this is an object. Seems simple right? So let's continue. Thus the fourth dimension is spacial density, or better known as an object.

When an object is related to another object we have a new concept known as something very much like time. If only one object exists in space, it cannot be said to be moving, nor can it be said to be anywhere at all. It is completely static. However, relate that object to another object, and a relative position can be drawn, and so can it be said that anything is "occurring" since a change in relationship is said to be a progression of time. Thus the fifth dimension is time, or better: a relationship between objects.

When a relationship between objects is related to a relationship between objects, what we now have is a complexity, or better known as a system. Just one more object, in fact, necesitates two different relationships between all parties. Our bodies are not merely objects, for instance, but systems. Indeed, our solar system, which is a relationship between all the local celestial bodies is exactly that: a system. Thus the sixth dimension is system.

When a system is related to another system, we have a grand system, or an organization, or in other words an abstract concept, or better known as a metaphysical entity. These are varied and are referred to daily in common tongue. A baseball game is a metaphysical entity because it requires the interworking of players which themselves are systems. In fact, elements of a grand system are not referred to as systems, but rather they are known as "subsystems" or "organs". Consciousness and the abstract concept of the self are described, not as objects which "exist" (so to speak) in the "real world", but are said to be abstract notions. Thus the seventh dimension is known as an organization or metaphysical or abstraction.

When a system is related to another system, we get relationships which consist of subsystems relating to their own systems, and grand systems relating to another grand system's subsystems, and so forth. This is known as attribution, category, subsystemization, property possession, employ, or patronage. This is not unknown or difficult to conceive. For instance, a baseball game is a system, but it is a relationship (known as a struggle) between two subsystems known as baseball teams which possess different properties. The baseball game is said to be won by whatever team wins, and thus there is a relationship between the subsystems and the system itself. But this can be extrapolated upon thusly: a player might be paid off to sabotage and throw the game for the other team. Thus that player is not actually a member of the team he is dressed for, but is actually a member of the other team by virtue of his relationship to the intended outcome of the game, or, in other words, his relationship to the grand system via possession of attributes possessed by the other team. Likewise, attributes are similarly described as relationships to grand systems. If I have the property of red hair, then I am a subsystem within the abstract concept of red hair. If I dye my hair I am a subsystem of the category of red haired people who dyed their hair, and on and on. A subsystem is essentially a property. An entire person can be a subsystem, and thus an entire person can be a property, like that of a property of a team of persons being a memeber of said team. In fact any random person, is actually a member of many different abstract concepts (or grand systems) since they contain many different properties. Indeed, the conept of identity is for any two things to be said to possess all the same properties. Thus it is said not to be two, but one. This relationships between properties and subsystems is best related to the concepts presented in polytheism. For instance, using red hair again, redheads born in ancient egypt were once burned alive because they were said to possess the attribute which was possessed by the Egyptian god of foreigners: Set. Thus the system of red hair is a patron of those subsystem who possess that property. Thus the eighth dimension is property or patronage.

The ninth dimension is relationships between all properties and all patrons. It is, essentially, a relationship between everything scaled up and down in scope. This results in the ultimate system. This results something similar to conceptions of perfection, necessity, and existence. The ninth dimension is known as the funciton of everything.

The tenth relationship is a relationship between everything and not everything. It is known as something similar to morality, or behavior, or virtue, or wisdom.
Quoting: Thomas Brinkley 42549205

Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
U3

User ID: 9834739
United States
07/04/2013 10:28 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
TPTB=Where I hide that I cling to physicality

"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
tuuuuur

User ID: 23635979
Netherlands
07/05/2013 07:42 AM

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
TPTB=Where I hide that I cling to physicality

Quoting: U3

"Yes, we scan" lol
Tuuur
Ambra
User ID: 42930639
Italy
07/06/2013 07:15 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Again, I didn't install on a MacBook right now. But my advice would be to stay with the 32 bit versions, especially if you have older hardware. Good luck!
Quoting: tuuuuur

Yes, I will try the 32 bit. It may take a little while longer, before I attempt going crazy again, trying to install it.

I understand that you did not install it on a Mac, I was just wondering if you are using 13.04 or a prior more stable version.
Ambra
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Italy
07/06/2013 07:23 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I believe you can use the following exercise for a more advanced illustration of Ecsys.

[snips]
Quoting: Chaol

Could I be possibly be pointed out to where Chaol mentioned it?
Quoting: Ambra 42662642

Is this what you were referring to, Ambra?

I find this exercise very inspiring, still. Although I did some work on it, I don't fully understand it. Anyone fancy trying it again? Chaol makes it sound so promising!
Quoting: Marshwiggle

Thank you, Marshwiggle.
Sorry, I was away and sidetracked for a couple of days.

I do recall that exercise, though I don't fully grasp it either. I remember that I moved a beeswax owl from the shelf on the fireplace to the bathroom, but nothing notable emerged and after a long while it went back to the original place. I was trying to keep the symbol and change the possibility/interaction, though I don't think I did anything with a different logic.

This exercise, though, doesn't seem to apply to what was being said about making changes when a Genius delivers something.

Incidentally, I found myself skipping the logic for my two Geniuses lately, forgetting about it... Maybe it's time for two new symbols...
Ambra
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07/06/2013 07:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Interesting eh?

Quoting: MutantMessiah

Wow, extremely interesting!
Mak
User ID: 43012509
United States
07/08/2013 03:31 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Adding to the tooth post!!!

Can we use these models to change any other health related problems?

Or even aging?

Thanks
Quoting: Vegatech

It would be quite difficult to maintain the same frame of mind as one had in much younger years.

If you could open your mind instead of closing it as you get older, make stress irrelevant, and minimize the stress of your cells, ageing would not be much of an issue.

Observe youth (or children) and try to figure out how they see the world. Becoming older we make continuous conscious decisions to abandon our youth and make "getting older" more relative to us. What things do we adopt into our lives that represent ageing? Where did our child-like wonder and imagination go? Knowing becomes more important than not-knowing. We often exercise to resist the ageing process, which actually makes us age faster. Ultimately we, not nature, end up ageing ourselves.

Some questions to ask yourself:

How are you interacting or associating with the ageing process? How do you see yourself?

How are you representing being older? (Sending signals of maturity to your peers, covering up your grey hair, exercising often, etc)

What rules on ageing have you adopted? (Thinking about retirement, what you're not supposed to do after a certain age, etc)

Again, we often create the very things we resist.

Thanks.
Quoting: Chaol 1117976

"In recent years, David Seidler, writer of “The King’s Speech,” claimed to have eliminated his cancer through meditation and imagination. After battling bladder cancer for years and only two weeks away from surgery, Seidler decided to see if he could get rid of the cancer through his imagination. He admittedly thought the idea was a little “woo-woo,” but by that point he figured he had nothing to lose. So, he spent the two weeks leading up to his surgery envisioning a clean, cream-colored, healthy bladder. When Seidler went in for his pre-surgery biopsy, the doctor was stunned to find a distinct lack of cancer – he even sent the biopsy to four different labs for testing. While Seidler believes his visualization were behind the cancer’s disappearance, his doctor labeled it a “spontaneous remission.”"
U3

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07/08/2013 06:33 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

The End Of The World started December 21, 2012 - The End Of The World will Be August 2013.
The End Of The Kuiper Belt

The electromagnetic particles that will be flowing & interchanging between the planets during the 12.21.12 alignment will be highly magnified and highly supercharged when they reach Earth. They will penetrate the crust, through the Earth and down into its core. At the actual moment of alignment it will cause the Earth to pause, for only a moment, and this process will completely transform the core of our planet to a completely new kind of energy form & source. This new energy form, in the language spoken on the Andromeda Council biospheres, the language of the Mirach star system in the Andromeda constellation, by the Andromeda Council scientists, is called: "sar".

This will be the first time cosmic transformational event of this type ever... for a planet. Time will begin to go away throughout all of 2013. And Earth will continue her evolution & transformation process into becoming a higher dimensional world in January 2014.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 07/08/2013 06:46 AM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
MutantMessiah

User ID: 11481360
United States
07/08/2013 09:50 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

The End Of The World started December 21, 2012 - The End Of The World will Be August 2013.
The End Of The Kuiper Belt

The electromagnetic particles that will be flowing & interchanging between the planets during the 12.21.12 alignment will be highly magnified and highly supercharged when they reach Earth. They will penetrate the crust, through the Earth and down into its core. At the actual moment of alignment it will cause the Earth to pause, for only a moment, and this process will completely transform the core of our planet to a completely new kind of energy form & source. This new energy form, in the language spoken on the Andromeda Council biospheres, the language of the Mirach star system in the Andromeda constellation, by the Andromeda Council scientists, is called: "sar".

This will be the first time cosmic transformational event of this type ever... for a planet. Time will begin to go away throughout all of 2013. And Earth will continue her evolution & transformation process into becoming a higher dimensional world in January 2014.
Quoting: U3

I found this video to be indigestible from my perspective. Because of this I thought "how might I be wrong" and decided that they must be speaking in metaphor. Since reality is perspective based and the "change" that is seemingly occurring is deeply personal, it will be rationally proposed in all different ways from all different people. Like an ancient race believing a plane is a bird or like us seeing a glowing orb and assuming it's an alien. We're using the symbols that we're already familiar with to describe something we've forgotten.

Transition to 4d
Rapture into Heaven
Ascension
Singularity
Unplugging from the matrix
Waking to the dreamworld
Etc...

All different ways to see the same thing.

For me, I see it all as a further deterioration of the systems that can no longer support themselves. As these systems fall apart and people feel "change" is upon us, we will see a lot of people looking to take advantage of the change with the goal of helping "other" people (but mainly themselves) get through it.

Others will look to troubleshoot the systems and keep them in working order until their support systems give way. Beyond peace of mind, it's useless to repair cracks in the walls if they're as a result of the foundation slowly deteriorating beneath them.

From my perspective, movements, mythology and ideology (like the Andromeda council, etc...) are like the plaster and paint we use to cover the cracks. The house is coming down.

We can work on the foundation (as Chaol has proposed) or we can find a new house. It could be interesting to find that the foundation was irrelevant and that we've been repairing a doll-house we had assumed was our home.
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Anonymous Coward
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07/08/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I didn't see this council saying the old systems won't come down but rather, they will try to help, so it's not so hard on us.

I didn't care for their handling of the "controllers" since that's something I can change in my perspective on my own.

But, they are also a part of my perspective!

I agree with trying to include everyone, they have August as a nexus and they say we will have a blue hue, so there is a lot of similarities.

Chaol has told us to examine our culture of endless profits. Neo shared with us some ways to change our perspective by re-defining labels. But, what else are we doing to change our perspective to another culture?

The Code of Ecsys says to make our thoughts and desires physical in a small way every day. I did a bunch of meme's and now I'm looking for additional ways to cultivate a new culture

And to be truthful, I'm not too excited about Chaol's world. Obviously, he isn't either! And, when he was asked why he doesn't go to a more enlightened place, he said it's too hard to understand them. So, I am trying to create the perspective that suits me.

One way is, I'll do a meme for this theme of someone to save us that I find throughout my perspective but I'd love to hear what others are doing if anyone wants to share. A day makes a huge difference with the tools Chaol has taught us!

I'm sure my new perspective includes classes and training since so much of my dreamtime is exactly that.
U3

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07/08/2013 01:51 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I wasn't logged in. That's me up above!
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
MutantMessiah

User ID: 11481360
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07/08/2013 05:54 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I didn't see this council saying the old systems won't come down but rather, they will try to help, so it's not so hard on us.

I didn't care for their handling of the "controllers" since that's something I can change in my perspective on my own.

But, they are also a part of my perspective!

I agree with trying to include everyone, they have August as a nexus and they say we will have a blue hue, so there is a lot of similarities.

Chaol has told us to examine our culture of endless profits. Neo shared with us some ways to change our perspective by re-defining labels. But, what else are we doing to change our perspective to another culture?

The Code of Ecsys says to make our thoughts and desires physical in a small way every day. I did a bunch of meme's and now I'm looking for additional ways to cultivate a new culture

And to be truthful, I'm not too excited about Chaol's world. Obviously, he isn't either! And, when he was asked why he doesn't go to a more enlightened place, he said it's too hard to understand them. So, I am trying to create the perspective that suits me.

One way is, I'll do a meme for this theme of someone to save us that I find throughout my perspective but I'd love to hear what others are doing if anyone wants to share. A day makes a huge difference with the tools Chaol has taught us!

I'm sure my new perspective includes classes and training since so much of my dreamtime is exactly that.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739

I know little of the "Andromeda Council" and I suppose I may be speaking out of ignorance. It seems to me, though, that they're a social parasite playing on the Messianic programing our cultures have installed.

No one can help you, but you. If it's all you, then pointing fingers at something and saying it's bad, etc.. Cannot change it, and will only incorporate more of that into your perspective. The idea of Jesus, an alien Co-operative or anything else coming to save us, is useless. It implies that we "need" saving (imo, we do not).

Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Lok
User ID: 39964291
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07/08/2013 07:42 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Jesse, I always enjoy your feedback and perspective... keep it coming.

As Jesse pointed out, there is no one that can save you but yourself.

While Chaol has left me with only that: I cannot really know anything truly and truthfully, and thus can really never be sure of anything.

Though I feel this, and thus only half believe what follows, I feel the following points have some thing to them.

1. I think there is something to be said about faith and value, that one should value something. A feeling, ideal, or concept and live life as if trying their best to actualize that ideal. Maybe that ideal is freedom, peace, love, passion, joy? Find whatever it is that you most think you are the matching frequency of (you/ who you feel you are or most wish to be) and then have faith that the universe is that thing, or will shift to match that. But having faith of something beyond your thoughts and what they can conceptualize.

in my opinion, since the universe is either negative, neutral, or positive. Since I view neutrality..../equality/unconditional compassion, love, etc. as "positive" that the universe is inherently slightly falling towards positive.

2. You get what you focus on, this seems pretty clear, and extra impactfull depending on how much one believes the environment is in direct relationships with one's very own choices. Since all you can know is your own perspective and that your perspective seems to change all the time and especially when you actively focus on specific things. Almost as if anything one brings attention to gets mirrored back even more relative.

It seems to me, that we should try to positivize all of our personal relationships with all symbols in order to better influence the overall scale of our perspectives towards positivety.

Which is why 4. I think there is something to the "New Age" saying of "raising frequency". it better puts it that it is not towards one pole or another but going up. Not focusing on the illusory relationships between good and bad.

5. I think not thinking or "thinking with the heart and feelings with the mind" is a way of raising that "frequency." start focusing the mind on things like how it feels breathing fresh air, or the smell of the coffee in the morning. Start focusing on these senses by not skipping the following video. ;)

6.
legit probably just some computer simulation game of love vs. fear.

Maybe Jesus was a carpenter because we are all going to be building bridges forever. ;)

If Love is the Answer Your Home
MutantMessiah

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07/08/2013 10:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Jesse, I always enjoy your feedback and perspective... keep it coming.

As Jesse pointed out, there is no one that can save you but yourself.

While Chaol has left me with only that: I cannot really know anything truly and truthfully, and thus can really never be sure of anything.

Though I feel this, and thus only half believe what follows, I feel the following points have some thing to them.

1. I think there is something to be said about faith and value, that one should value something. A feeling, ideal, or concept and live life as if trying their best to actualize that ideal. Maybe that ideal is freedom, peace, love, passion, joy? Find whatever it is that you most think you are the matching frequency of (you/ who you feel you are or most wish to be) and then have faith that the universe is that thing, or will shift to match that. But having faith of something beyond your thoughts and what they can conceptualize.

in my opinion, since the universe is either negative, neutral, or positive. Since I view neutrality..../equality/unconditional compassion, love, etc. as "positive" that the universe is inherently slightly falling towards positive.

2. You get what you focus on, this seems pretty clear, and extra impactfull depending on how much one believes the environment is in direct relationships with one's very own choices. Since all you can know is your own perspective and that your perspective seems to change all the time and especially when you actively focus on specific things. Almost as if anything one brings attention to gets mirrored back even more relative.

It seems to me, that we should try to positivize all of our personal relationships with all symbols in order to better influence the overall scale of our perspectives towards positivety.

Which is why 4. I think there is something to the "New Age" saying of "raising frequency". it better puts it that it is not towards one pole or another but going up. Not focusing on the illusory relationships between good and bad.

5. I think not thinking or "thinking with the heart and feelings with the mind" is a way of raising that "frequency." start focusing the mind on things like how it feels breathing fresh air, or the smell of the coffee in the morning. Start focusing on these senses by not skipping the following video. ;)

6.
legit probably just some computer simulation game of love vs. fear.

Maybe Jesus was a carpenter because we are all going to be building bridges forever. ;)

If Love is the Answer Your Home
Quoting: Lok 39964291

Well put Lok, and thanks.

Love is the answer if you want to experience it. It may be possible that the whole "reason"(lol) there is all of this "suffering" and "bad vibes" is because without them "Love" is irrelevant.

Love is a construct within the geometry of relationships that allows it to occur. If all is love, then the lesser forms of it would become the "suffering" equivalent.

With that said, maybe we should discuss what this "Love" thing is all about.

If we use Thomas Campbell's line of thought, there is fear and there is love. Fear is a repulsive or noninclusive force and love is an attractive or inclusive force. We see that in the micro and macro. This is where the idea of "positive" and "negative" social interaction stems from. If we have a positive experience we feel included, a part of it and if we have a negative experience we are repulsed and feel a part from it.

If we continue this line of thought, maybe we would come to the understanding that "love" is a creative, nurturing force and "fear" is a destructive force.

I hope you see where I am going with this. Even "fear" is love. In order for "Unconditional Love" or "All-inclusiveness" to occur, we have to LOVE not LOVING. Lol... This is hard for a lot of us to accept.

As an atheist teenager I had often preached that suffering people in desperate areas of the globe were a good thing to point at when pointing out that God (and his unconditional love for us) couldn't exist. As I aged and suffered a bit myself, I came to the understanding that it's the suffering that made me truly appreciate (love) the good times, leading to an appreciation of the bad ones as well.

Sure, there is no consciousness, only relationships.
Sure, there is no destination, only a journey.
Sure, there is no unconditional love, only the goal of obtaining it.

What we have here, is a subjective experience that's kinda like a sphere of clay that's to be molded into a sculpture. Bad experiences are like tools scraped across our surface or random chunks of clay slapped onto the form. Our good experiences may be like a steady hand adjusting, editing or adding more clay to the form. We were a sphere, someday a sculpture. We focus on what we had as if it matters and look toward a future we cannot relate to. We can fear the future and find that our focus on fear was justified in hindsight or we can choose to see things differently. It's all you. Love you with all your heart, I mean really appreciate you... all your scrapings and misshapen splotches. You are the clay, the mistakes, the genius and the artist.

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/08/2013 10:13 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
U3

User ID: 9834739
United States
07/09/2013 01:38 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I didn't see this council saying the old systems won't come down but rather, they will try to help, so it's not so hard on us.

I didn't care for their handling of the "controllers" since that's something I can change in my perspective on my own.

But, they are also a part of my perspective!

I agree with trying to include everyone, they have August as a nexus and they say we will have a blue hue, so there is a lot of similarities.

Chaol has told us to examine our culture of endless profits. Neo shared with us some ways to change our perspective by re-defining labels. But, what else are we doing to change our perspective to another culture?

The Code of Ecsys says to make our thoughts and desires physical in a small way every day. I did a bunch of meme's and now I'm looking for additional ways to cultivate a new culture

And to be truthful, I'm not too excited about Chaol's world. Obviously, he isn't either! And, when he was asked why he doesn't go to a more enlightened place, he said it's too hard to understand them. So, I am trying to create the perspective that suits me.

One way is, I'll do a meme for this theme of someone to save us that I find throughout my perspective but I'd love to hear what others are doing if anyone wants to share. A day makes a huge difference with the tools Chaol has taught us!

I'm sure my new perspective includes classes and training since so much of my dreamtime is exactly that.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739

I know little of the "Andromeda Council" and I suppose I may be speaking out of ignorance. It seems to me, though, that they're a social parasite playing on the Messianic programing our cultures have installed.

No one can help you, but you. If it's all you, then pointing fingers at something and saying it's bad, etc.. Cannot change it, and will only incorporate more of that into your perspectivet want to. The idea of Jesus, an alien Co-operative or anything else coming to save us, is useless. It implies that we "need" saving (imo, we do not).

Quoting: MutantMessiah

You may not feel anyone needs saving but it's in your perspective. I've been contemplating the savior complex today. Our culture is rampant it with it.

I see it as dissociation from the projections we don't want to own but need to be saved from since things are so screwed up. I'm just not sure how to put it into a meme, yet.

It's interesting to me that quite a few religions have a savior or avenging angel...so do movies and fairy tales! I sort of see Chaol as a "savior" so I'm still thinking about all of this and how I want to redefine it.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
U3

User ID: 9834739
United States
07/09/2013 01:50 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Jesse, I always enjoy your feedback and perspective... keep it coming.

As Jesse pointed out, there is no one that can save you but yourself.

While Chaol has left me with only that: I cannot really know anything truly and truthfully, and thus can really never be sure of anything.

Though I feel this, and thus only half believe what follows, I feel the following points have some thing to them.

1. I think there is something to be said about faith and value, that one should value something. A feeling, ideal, or concept and live life as if trying their best to actualize that ideal. Maybe that ideal is freedom, peace, love, passion, joy? Find whatever it is that you most think you are the matching frequency of (you/ who you feel you are or most wish to be) and then have faith that the universe is that thing, or will shift to match that. But having faith of something beyond your thoughts and what they can conceptualize.

in my opinion, since the universe is either negative, neutral, or positive. Since I view neutrality..../equality/unconditional compassion, love, etc. as "positive" that the universe is inherently slightly falling towards positive.

2. You get what you focus on, this seems pretty clear, and extra impactfull depending on how much one believes the environment is in direct relationships with one's very own choices. Since all you can know is your own perspective and that your perspective seems to change all the time and especially when you actively focus on specific things. Almost as if anything one brings attention to gets mirrored back even more relative.

It seems to me, that we should try to positivize all of our personal relationships with all symbols in order to better influence the overall scale of our perspectives towards positivety.

Which is why 4. I think there is something to the "New Age" saying of "raising frequency". it better puts it that it is not towards one pole or another but going up. Not focusing on the illusory relationships between good and bad.

5. I think not thinking or "thinking with the heart and feelings with the mind" is a way of raising that "frequency." start focusing the mind on things like how it feels breathing fresh air, or the smell of the coffee in the morning. Start focusing on these senses by not skipping the following video. ;)

6.
legit probably just some computer simulation game of love vs. fear.

Maybe Jesus was a carpenter because we are all going to be building bridges forever. ;)

If Love is the Answer Your Home
Quoting: Lok 39964291

I agree that without love, I don't think I would enjoy experiencing. I also know I have to experience the opposite to know what love is.

Before I found these threads, I thought my journey was to go beyond duality. Now, I see duality is consciousness and existence.....so love and fear are needed.

I'm working hard learning the tools Chaol taught us so I can perceive the reality of my choice. This would be one with higher highs and gentler lows!!!!!

The Genius is not called a genie for no reason.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 07/09/2013 01:52 AM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Is a protector an off-shoot of savior?

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe": Meeting in the new Dream reality (Page 37)

"The fire of the dream world, "Sekhmet", has a twin. It is symbolized as the protector of the physical world. You will know it as the Great Sphinx."

Chaol calls this, "secrets of the waking world."
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
More questions that pop into my head. I'm just full, full of questions sometimes.

So I get it that whatever we're looking at (or measuring/viewing/perceiving) is always in the "cheapest" possible way. But still I wonder.

Taken to its logical conclusion, the cheapest thing to render would be - nothing at all. So why is it we actually see stuff and aren't in some black void where you can't even hear your own voice? Why does anything fluctuate at all?

Take the logical conclusion further, why even have a body around at all? Wouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient to have a bodiless existence?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933

I'm not sure how you could perceive something that had absolutely no value, but yes.

When 2 things exist then they both has a presumed value (whatever value you the other ascribes to it, formed from the relationship of it to the other thing).

Even saying or imagining that you are in a 'black void' has something like 2 values ("black" and "void"). So it could be said that "non-existence" exists, as do "black voids", "vacuums", and anything else you can think of. (Existing in the way that it has value, not that it is real.)

The cheapest for the universe to "create", energy-wise, is "nothing". But then there would be no universe. (And even the absence of something is something that has a value.)

It needs to break itself down into seemingly separate parts in order to pretend to exist.

Physicality need not actually exist. The illusion is 'good enough' and uses up the least amount of energy. But in the illusion itself energy is used. So our bodies seem physical only because that's how we think of it, and we think it's real. (If you were a thought you would probably also see yourself as "most real".)

In the whole, there is no physicality, no illusion, no energy, etc. But further explanation is where the use of the English language escapes us and why I presented Ec.

(These are all terms used for lack of better terms.)
Quoting: Chaol

Ha!
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Is a protector an off-shoot of savior?

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe": Meeting in the new Dream reality (Page 37)

"The fire of the dream world, "Sekhmet", has a twin. It is symbolized as the protector of the physical world. You will know it as the Great Sphinx."

Chaol calls this, "secrets of the waking world."
Quoting: U3 9834739

"Protector of the physical world" could mean a lot of things, especially with the lack of context provided by Chaol in that post. We can infer a few things though. If there is a "Destroyer of Worlds" it seems reasonable that the world would logically produce a "Protector of Worlds" to defend against it.

If there is a "protector" then there is an implication there is something vulnerable (needing it's protection).

None of these concepts are a "bad" thing. I enjoy playing the role of protector/healer/savior and I find that my desire to play that role plays out in many ways. For a large part of my life I played the victim/vulnerable/sickly and no one was able to save me, until I "saved" myself.

I rarely have to protect/save/heal my personal body (anymore). For a while now, my personal suffering is primarily experienced through my awareness of the suffering of others. I seek to protect, heal and save them from it. In doing so, I find they remain reliant on me for that service. Sometimes they respond with what looks like "love". I like it, to an extent, but (now) I look for opportunities to provide advice, insight and understanding that will allow them to save themselves. Looking for a "protector" reinforces your personal vulnerability. By seeking a savior, you'll find one... alas, they rarely show up to save someone that isn't in need of saving. It's quite possible that in looking for a savior, you'll encounter an experience where one is necessary and in that moment you'll realize your savior was YOU all along.

I look forward to a perspective where everyone is understood and there are no misunderstandings. It's always a goal and never an experience. We can be beacons of light in the darkness, but the darkness will always lie at the fringe of the light. Take it as you will, but I hope that you come to an understanding that as long as you seek saving you will need it, as long as you look for a protector you will remain vulnerable.

True love in it's purest form is expressed in the moments where love is nowhere to be seen. In the a dark room a struck match can be blinding.

It's not all that useful (from my perspective) to see the world as suffering, vulnerable, wrong or inconsistent. If you personally did not hold the traits you're noticing in others, you would be unable to see them.

Sure, people suffer, but it's all relative.
Sure, people take "advantage" of those they can.
Sure, people fight to keep what they have.

We are all people.

Love them anyway. Love yourself, then see everything as yourself. If there must be a struggle let it be the struggle to maintain that sense of being. Light up the darkness, knowing that if you were to illuminate it all, even the light would be irrelevant(don't worry there will always be darkness). Enjoy(love) the contrast, it's all we have.

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/09/2013 08:20 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
/snips/

Chaol, a question:

I understand the concept of energy conservation in the sense that we will perceive that which takes the least amount of energy, and I read you stating that something we desire to perceive might be expressed in an other way from the particular form that we 'want' to perceive [whatever thing] we intend with, say, a Genius Model--such that, for example my new job might be expressed in an entirely different way than how I would normally perceive (or intend) for that new job to be expressed and perceived in my current perspective.

This leads me to think that we are at the mercy, so to speak, of this 'Law of Energy Conservation' and that we are as likely not to get the desired perspective (thing) as we are to get it despite our best efforts via Genius Model Creation.

How can we best accomplish a desired (as we see it in our conscious mind's eye) perspective in lieu of this? Or perhaps a better way to state this is how can we position ourselves to perceive exactly what we envision?

Scenario: Say that my new job has already been delivered to my perspective (and I know that it's there/here now, but not the way I want or recognize) in the form of some other thing...am I just spinning my wheels by continuing with the current Genius Models, or do I need to keep adding new Models until I perceive that my initial, desired intent has been satisfied?

Thanks in advance for your continued help.
Quoting: X Won 1407931

I believe you know the answer to this all ready.

Let's say that the Genius brings you closer to what you want but not in the way that you want it 'yet'.

You may think that if you wanted a box of cookies and you got a picture of a box of cookies, instead, that the Genius is not working for you and you are at the mercy of the most efficient cookie concept.

The picture of the cookie is a feature of the map and is not intended as the final destination. You are not at the mercy of this because it is you who is making it relative.

It is bringing you closer to your desired perspective by illustrating the path to the perspective in real time.

Some of us give up at the picture of the cookie and try to eat it, to no avail.

But as a real-time perspective map (journey) it works fine.

You can use the old model once you get the photocookie but really it won't be as effective as making a new model with the 'new' value of the photocookie in mind.

(That is to say, the new model you create is influenced by the result of the old model... thus illustrating the path.)

I would recommend making as many sequential models as you can for a particular desired perspective until it becomes second nature. Until it becomes a mental process.

But one model per desired perspective until you see the desired perspective symbolized in your current perspective. So it's like turning the map around to get your bearings as you continue a long the path.
Quoting: Chaol

Very cool! And I've got some work to do!!!!!

Thank you very much, Chaol and XWon!

Quoting: Unit3

Ran across this and thought of you, Ambra and Marshwiggle!
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Is a protector an off-shoot of savior?

Thread: Notes from an "alternate universe": Meeting in the new Dream reality (Page 37)

"The fire of the dream world, "Sekhmet", has a twin. It is symbolized as the protector of the physical world. You will know it as the Great Sphinx."

Chaol calls this, "secrets of the waking world."
Quoting: U3 9834739

"Protector of the physical world" could mean a lot of things, especially with the lack of context provided by Chaol in that post. We can infer a few things though. If there is a "Destroyer of Worlds" it seems reasonable that the world would logically produce a "Protector of Worlds" to defend against it.

If there is a "protector" then there is an implication there is something vulnerable (needing it's protection).

None of these concepts are a "bad" thing. I enjoy playing the role of protector/healer/savior and I find that my desire to play that role plays out in many ways. For a large part of my life I played the victim/vulnerable/sickly and no one was able to save me, until I "saved" myself.

I rarely have to protect/save/heal my personal body (anymore). For a while now, my personal suffering is primarily experienced through my awareness of the suffering of others. I seek to protect, heal and save them from it. In doing so, I find they remain reliant on me for that service. Sometimes they respond with what looks like "love". I like it, to an extent, but (now) I look for opportunities to provide advice, insight and understanding that will allow them to save themselves. Looking for a "protector" reinforces your personal vulnerability. By seeking a savior, you'll find one... alas, they rarely show up to save someone that isn't in need of saving. It's quite possible that in looking for a savior, you'll encounter an experience where one is necessary and in that moment you'll realize your savior was YOU all along.

I look forward to a perspective where everyone is understood and there are no misunderstandings. It's always a goal and never an experience. We can be beacons of light in the darkness, but the darkness will always lie at the fringe of the light. Take it as you will, but I hope that you come to an understanding that as long as you seek saving you will need it, as long as you look for a protector you will remain vulnerable.

True love in it's purest form is expressed in the moments where love is nowhere to be seen. In the a dark room a struck match can be blinding.

It's not all that useful (from my perspective) to see the world as suffering, vulnerable, wrong or inconsistent. If you personally did not hold the traits you're noticing in others, you would be unable to see them.

Sure, people suffer, but it's all relative.
Sure, people take "advantage" of those they can.
Sure, people fight to keep what they have.

We are all people.

Love them anyway. Love yourself, then see everything as yourself. If there must be a struggle let it be the struggle to maintain that sense of being. Light up the darkness, knowing that if you were to illuminate it all, even the light would be irrelevant(don't worry there will always be darkness). Enjoy(love) the contrast, it's all we have.

[/quote

Very cool......"love the contrast, it's all we have."

I think Chaol's statement shows how strong the savior archetype is in physicality. It's all ok but my first choice is to be aware of my beliefs. I do an archaeological dig to see where they are coming from.

I feel it's useful to see your whole perspective as it is.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As we move to slightly more advanced Ecsys there will be a number of things that I will discuss more.

However, this means that more of us may become uncomfortable with the discussion. It goes with the new territory, I suppose.

Disbelief in something is, indeed, belief in it.

If you truly disbelieved you would not think about it or interact with it.

What you believe in you interact with.

So anything you interact with you believe in. Otherwise you would not set up the framework to interact with it. It would simply be irrelevant.
Quoting: Chaol

I should also add, what you disbelieve you also interact with.

(There is no disbelief. Only belief or irrelevance.)
Quoting: Chaol

What I am saying is the savior is in my perspective. I'm interested in re-defining it.
MutantMessiah

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As we move to slightly more advanced Ecsys there will be a number of things that I will discuss more.

However, this means that more of us may become uncomfortable with the discussion. It goes with the new territory, I suppose.

Disbelief in something is, indeed, belief in it.

If you truly disbelieved you would not think about it or interact with it.

What you believe in you interact with.

So anything you interact with you believe in. Otherwise you would not set up the framework to interact with it. It would simply be irrelevant.
Quoting: Chaol

I should also add, what you disbelieve you also interact with.

(There is no disbelief. Only belief or irrelevance.)
Quoting: Chaol

What I am saying is the savior is in my perspective. I'm interested in re-defining it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739

How is it that you plan on doing that? If that's hard to answer, you may consider the following question:
"Why is the concept of a savior so relative to you?"

"Redefining" (as Chaol puts it) is not necessarily assigning a new definition (as it would be if taken literally in the traditional sense) as much as it's changing the logic that the representation uses to interact with your perspective (or the logic you use to interact with it).

I have no idea if this will be useful to you but.. When I am "redefining"(reassigning relationships to) a symbol I find it useful to imagine the symbol represented as a point with lines of light coming from it going out in all directions each line representing something it interacts with. Thicker lines of light imply high relevance and thinner lines less relevance. I like to imagine (pretend/play) that this is a mental map for the way things relate. If you have the patience and desire to do so, you might also find it useful to imagine what other symbols (nodes) the lines connect to and consider what other aspects of your perspective may be altered if you alter the way the node you're desiring to change interacts within perspective.

Most of the time I find the existing structure is useful as is and it just needed a few lines to intersect with other representations that allowed it to function in a way more relative to my desired perspective.

There is a similar "library" method as well. If you're awesome at keeping out distractions, you can do this in a "daydream" and if not you may want to meditate for focus. Imagine yourself in a library, imagine the texture of the bound books, the smell of their ancient pages, the vivid colors and detail in their bindings. Each book represents a concept that holds meaning to you and within each book is all the information you are aware of that is relative to that concept. Each book is unfinished, there are several blank pages at the end of each book. Still, each book houses the entirety of your understanding on each concept. Pick up one of the books that you'd like to add to, flip to the blank pages and write in some new relevant information to the concept. It doesn't matter if the information you write in is contradictory, these books have a tendency of editing inconsistencies out in a way most relative.

Hope these are a benefit to you.

Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
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07/10/2013 12:46 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
As we move to slightly more advanced Ecsys there will be a number of things that I will discuss more.

However, this means that more of us may become uncomfortable with the discussion. It goes with the new territory, I suppose.

Disbelief in something is, indeed, belief in it.

If you truly disbelieved you would not think about it or interact with it.

What you believe in you interact with.

So anything you interact with you believe in. Otherwise you would not set up the framework to interact with it. It would simply be irrelevant.
Quoting: Chaol

I should also add, what you disbelieve you also interact with.

(There is no disbelief. Only belief or irrelevance.)
Quoting: Chaol

What I am saying is the savior is in my perspective. I'm interested in re-defining it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739

How is it that you plan on doing that? If that's hard to answer, you may consider the following question:
"Why is the concept of a savior so relative to you?"

"Redefining" (as Chaol puts it) is not necessarily assigning a new definition (as it would be if taken literally in the traditional sense) as much as it's changing the logic that the representation uses to interact with your perspective (or the logic you use to interact with it).

I have no idea if this will be useful to you but.. When I am "redefining"(reassigning relationships to) a symbol I find it useful to imagine the symbol represented as a point with lines of light coming from it going out in all directions each line representing something it interacts with. Thicker lines of light imply high relevance and thinner lines less relevance. I like to imagine (pretend/play) that this is a mental map for the way things relate. If you have the patience and desire to do so, you might also find it useful to imagine what other symbols (nodes) the lines connect to and consider what other aspects of your perspective may be altered if you alter the way the node you're desiring to change interacts within perspective.

Most of the time I find the existing structure is useful as is and it just needed a few lines to intersect with other representations that allowed it to function in a way more relative to my desired perspective.

There is a similar "library" method as well. If you're awesome at keeping out distractions, you can do this in a "daydream" and if not you may want to meditate for focus. Imagine yourself in a library, imagine the texture of the bound books, the smell of their ancient pages, the vivid colors and detail in their bindings. Each book represents a concept that holds meaning to you and within each book is all the information you are aware of that is relative to that concept. Each book is unfinished, there are several blank pages at the end of each book. Still, each book houses the entirety of your understanding on each concept. Pick up one of the books that you'd like to add to, flip to the blank pages and write in some new relevant information to the concept. It doesn't matter if the information you write in is contradictory, these books have a tendency of editing inconsistencies out in a way most relative.

Hope these are a benefit to you.

Quoting: MutantMessiah

Very cool! I like writing in the library books!

I don't know if I could see how the perspective would be altered with re-defining a symbol. I'll have to think on that.

So by "seeing" more lines intersecting with a symbol, it's changed your perspective? Could you give an example on the bold paragraph? Thanks!

Right now, I'm following Neo's idea of re-defining values in perspective, to awaken the subconscious....I guess it's kinda like shock value. So, I found a meme I like and blogged about it with a subject title of abdication. When I have a little more time, I'll make my own meme.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
snip...
Mutant Messiah:
Most of the time I find the existing structure is useful as is and it just needed a few lines to intersect with other representations that allowed it to function in a way more relative to my desired perspective.
snip...
U3:
Snip...
So by "seeing" more lines intersecting with a symbol, it's changed your perspective? Could you give an example on the bold paragraph? Thanks!
Snip...
Quoting: U3

When we hear a word, like Dog, we instantly queue up other related words for possible use that are related to "Dog". So, for instance, if someone says "walk", "food", "bite", etc.. in the sentence following the word Dog, then you'll associate the two by default. You'll think "walk the dog" "dog food" "the dog bites" etc.. You're constantly trying to make sense of all the information you're provided at all times and your perspective is adjusted to accommodate the most likely narrative.

Ok, so, let's use headache as an example.

Headache as the point(Node)
It relates to pain (thick line)
It relates to heads (thick line)
It relates to salt (medium line)
It relates to high blood pressure (thin line)
It relates to aneurism (thin line)
It relates to brain parasite (thin line)
It relates to too much sun (thin line)
It relates to alcohol (medium line)
It relates to dehydration (medium line)
(there are many more I could list but I am sure you get the point, they're "negative" for the most part but it's also an identifier that a change in behavior or assistance may be needed)

SO, let's say Headaches are prevalent in perspective and we see them as inhibiting other opportunities or experiences. Let's say that because of continuous bad headaches, I am unable to focus and do my job. So I think what relationships would "Headache" need to be useful to me instead of an obstacle. I could add:

It relates to "potential medical issue" (like a check engine light in the car)so(thick line)
It relates to "cured by consuming foods that feel good" (in a healthy kind of way, not in a I'm sad lemme' eat a bag a chips kinda way) so (thick line)
It relates to "cured by consuming liquids" (thick line)

This way a headache is not experienced as a nagging persistent pain keeping me from work and instead as a guideline to good health in general. I wouldn't want to stop experiencing headaches all-together because it does perform as a kind of alert to other underlying potential issues that may need attention.

Hope that helps.

For a little further detail, if you hadn't already interpreted it this way, the lines represent the logic by which the symbols (points, nodes) interact (where they intersect) and the possibility is brought about within the realm of thought (just by allowing them to interact). So this is a "Genius" friendly process.

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/10/2013 09:50 AM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
That's just brilliant, MM.

I blogged it! TY.

I wonder, have you done anything with this advice from Chaol?
(No link, sorry. I wrote it down to contemplate it.)

"So in order to expand your perspective through thinking, get rid of your thoughts, rely on them less, and make them interact with what no longer matters to you."

"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
MutantMessiah

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
That's just brilliant, MM.

I blogged it! TY.

I wonder, have you done anything with this advice from Chaol?
(No link, sorry. I wrote it down to contemplate it.)

"So in order to expand your perspective through thinking, get rid of your thoughts, rely on them less, and make them interact with what no longer matters to you."

Quoting: U3

Not necessarily because of Chaol's advice, but I do take advantage of that tool of perspective every time I meditate. Thomas Campbell calls it the "Point Consciousness" in the "Void" (nothing to relate to). It's the jumping point for OOB, where you are just aware of your awareness and nothing else until you decide to think and thoughts/experiences do occur spontaneously on occasion lol.

Interesting (recent and not necessarily related) question and answer panel:

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 07/10/2013 03:00 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
U3

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