Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

About as much fun as pretending that we're alive, I guess.

Thoughts are actually relationships. Is this what you are implying?

Edit: Where do thoughts come from?

I have entertained some thoughts recently that were so foreign to me that they slipped from my grasp. I was unable to back up and look at them more closely. They evaporate the moment I try to focus on them.

Where do those come from? Who is it that is unable to get a hold of them for further examination?

This might be a good spot for a bit of trivia.

There is a claim that Hermes wrote 10,000 books. "Hermes" is the Greek term for "Thoth", which is an Egyptian name for a Neter; a god. When the Egyptians wrote, they attributed all their writing to Thoth.

One comment I can make is that your equations will not work using a placeholder (4). It would be like using an apostrophe to figure 2 + ' = ?

Edit:

Logic structures Possibility.

Chaos is the goddess of Interaction. Chaos is an order we do not yet understand.

In utilizing a Genius, when one begins to interact with the physical representation, you never know where it is going to take you before reaching your goal. You can't really predict the map of the Genius. I think this is the disorder. After reaching your desired situation, you can look back and see how you got to where you are now. That would be impressing order on disorder.

Interesting to ponder isn't it?

Not-Chaol

If we say that bob holds a value of 1 and bill holds a value of 3, then I say ralph is bob and bill. That'd mean that ralph logically holds a value of 4. This isn't to say that ralph, bob or bill exist.. only that given the assigned values, they hold a certain relationship to one another. As a logic (1) applied to an Interaction (3) would be a 4.



Yes, logic structures possibility (the measure of chaos within an order).

Yes, chaos is an order we do not yet understand. This isn't to mean that it's ordered in a given perspective. There will always be chaos dancing around at the fringe of perspective beyond that which you know you don't know. This chaos is everything always in all-ways, but it is channeled by the consistency of the system (your perspective).

(just looking to share my perspective, hoping it may be useful to others)

@U3
Neutral would be between High and Low. :)

If you are able to use it, that is all that matters really.

Or pretending to ponder it, I suppose.

And where the heck is that part of me that makes all these millions of calculations, at breath-taking speed, outside of time? I assume this is where the big bangs take place...Noch?

@MM, neutrality seems similar to chaos...isn't it that which high and low spring from?

Is what you call space outside of time?

Not-Chaol

It all springs from chaos/no-thing/every-thing. Something neutral would be neither high nor low and could only be termed neutral in relation to them. Neutrality presumes duality and not the other way around. Duality presumes order and order presumes chaos. Chaos presumes only itself.

/Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos\
Chaos>>Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder<<Chaos
Chaos>>Disorder>Order Order Order Order Order<Disorder<<Chaos
Chaos>>Disorder>Order>>(Perspective)<<<Order<<Disorder<<C​haos
Chaos>>Disorder>Order Order Order Order Order<Disorder<<Chaos
Chaos>>Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder Disorder<<Chaos
\Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos Chaos/

Come to think of it, yes!

OK, got that part (the bold part except for your bold part-the word order) and still thinking about the rest!

Why do you say chaos>disorder? Isn't chaos disorder already?

"Ordinarily, desire moves toward objects and objective achievements, in some sense. It is necessary that this desire should be given another polarization so that, instead of objects and achievements in the world-field being sought, an eternal and all-encompassing consciousness should be desired."



Integrating Chaos then could be said to be "bringing together of that which is improperly separated"


Chaos not yet understood, would be self not yet understood.

Perhaps Chaos is an order (consciousness) outside of our perspective.


I think the idea is to create a bridge / connection to the divine / higher self / chaos / non linear consciousness.....

"The more common mystical resolution is a sense of Union with God, wherein a companionship with a transcendent otherness is attained"

"at the end there remains that which is never an object and yet is the foundation upon which all relative consciousness is strung like beads upon a string"

"The self is no longer a pole or focal point, but it sweeps outward, everywhere, in a sort of unpolarized consciousness, which is at once self-identity and the objective content of consciousness"

perhaps better organized as...

Self > Chaos > disorder > order > Self < order < disorder < Chaos < Self

Chaos still has to fall within the permanent and unchanging, the bare power to be aware.

Bridging the selves to a state where "a state of consciousness wherein the disjunction between the subject to consciousness and the object of consciousness is destroyed. It is a state wherein self-identity and the field of consciousness are blended in one indissoluble whole"

Or as Chaol would say, no longer being divorced from your perspective.

The one foot in two rooms I suppose would sort of be like that, existing as outside of all things / all things arising from within you. But also maintaining the former subject-object or relative consciousness that perceives things outside of itself.

Chaos is disorder, yes. But Disorder implies order where chaos is more chaotic(lol) and does not. They're varying degrees of similar concepts.

Ok, look at it this way, if reality was just based on vocal patterns of a human:

Chaos would be all or no sounds the person can make.

Disorder would be random words or parts of words or parts of parts of words from any language.

Order would be words from the languages you understand.

Perspective would be your interpretation of the sounds.

@triscuit

Isn't chaos changing and impermanent?

What if there is no self?

What if there is only your perspective propped up by an order pushing back chaos/nothing/irrelevance?

There is nothing to push back, because there is nothing outside of perspective. Nothing outside of awareness. Only irrelevance.

"When everything is submitted to critical examination, it still remains impossible to doubt one's own being, however little one may be able to understand the nature of that being"

"the essential timelessness of the subject, or self, in its purity, unmixed with any objective element, can never truly be an object of consciousness."

"If pure subjectivity, or the bare power to be aware, is a permanent or unchanging element, therefore must, as a consequence, stand outside time and be unaffected by any history, then it must be ,of necessity immortal. I saw that this kind of immortality is wholly impersonal and does not, by itself, imply the unlimited persistence of the quality of individuality that distinguishes one man from another."

"I knew that I sustained the whole phenomenal universe, and that time, space, and law are simply the self-imposed forms whereby I am enabled to apprehend in the relative sense.* I, thus, am not dependent upon the space-time manifold, but, on the contrary, that manifold is dependent upon the Self with which I am identical"

* (Surely no one will be so clumsy as to suppose this "universal-sustaining I" is any more the personal "I" than the reflection of the sun in water is the real sun itself.)


So if your reference is to the relative self, I agree, it is Maya, Reflection, incomplete, a story. But the transcendental self stands outside all things. To it's reference point, nothing has ever happened, and nothing will ever changed.

It is Bliss, Knowledge, being-not-being.

So Triscuit, because everything is impermanent and changing. In 1000000 years, every aspect of Triscuit will have changed, my beliefs, my understanding. This triscuit will have died and will have been replaced. But the awareness will remain.

To me it is the Separation, which then allows for connection... that makes anything worthwhile.

The lack of control, the spontaneity, the surprise, the awe, the beauty, the unfolding of yourself.

Awesome post. Thanks.

It seems to me that we disagree from a language based perspective but are describing the same "thing".

"It" cannot be "Bliss, Knowledge, being-not-being." "It" is irrelevant to definition. My take on it is that "it" has no reference point and is irrelevant beyond the chaotic soup "it" allows perspective to play in but may simply be as a result of primal chaos itself. Most likely, "it" is chaos.

Even the transcendental self is (experienced as/via) the relative self (perspective, "geometry of relationships" or "symbolic consistency").

What if:

I am not sure that there is a fundamental "awareness". The "awareness" seems to me as separated from fundamental reality by an order pushing back chaos, irrelevance or non-existence. It seems to me that "awareness" is a construct of the chaos and not the other way around.

Maybe:

Nice Jesse, always stimulating conversation with you...

You are right in that it is beyond any sort of language definition, but If one had to put that state into language it would be "Knowledge, bliss, being-not-being"
And as such is beyond thought, it can only be understood through the recognition of nothingness, or identification with nothingness.

However you may mostly be right that the transcendental self is experienced through the relative self. But in a sense I feel it also is not. The relative self can't comprehend it, so outside of the attachment to the awareness of the relative self is a concurrent attachment to an awareness beyond the relative self. There is an absolute knowingness in that attachment, because you are it. a feeling of everything being contained within yourself. But there is also a distinct feeling of lack of individuality from that reference point as well as a high indifference. But there is still perspective.

Maybe you are talking about something outside of perspective. But if one can imagine it then it eventually can be perceived. It may be irrelevant for a period, but it will always be but just around the river's bend.

"The first discernible effect in consciousness was something that I may call a shift in the base of consciousness. From the relative point of view, the final step may be likened to a leap into Nothing. At once, that Nothing was resolved into utter fullness, which in turn gave the relative world a dreamlike quality of unreality. I felt and knew myself to have arrived, at last, at the Real. I was not dissipated in a sort of spacial emptiness, but on the contrary was spread out in a Fullness beyond measure. The roots of my consciousness, which prior to this moment had been (seemingly) more or less deeply implanted in the field of relative consciousness, now were forcibly removed and instantaneously transplanted into a supernal region. This sense of being thus transplanted has continued to the present day, and it seems to be a much more normal state of emplacement than ever the old rooting had been."

It seems like there will be always something outside of perspective, but it is already now and just waiting to be discover beyond the shore. The transcendental association was almost like a beginning, like this is all just orientation. Certain things and thoughts could only be had in that awareness. Like chaos is swirling outside of perspective waiting to be integrated. I would still say perspective/awareness is the fundamental reality, and that though one as reached the fundamental, that does not imply an end. There are infinities within the mind. "nothing/chaos" will always be just out of grasp there is no end.

I agree, chaos dances just beyond that which I know I don't know.

Since we seem to agree and are negotiating subjective subtleties, maybe we could move the conversation in a different direction?

My personal experience has led me to accept that perspective resists being overtaken by chaos to prevent it's own irrelevance. The thing is, this chaotic synchronicity plays close to home as well as "over there". That's why I see it as pervasive. It's possible that perspective and the ego are in cahoots and they may even be the same structure.

Our ego seeks consistency, relevance and protection from irrelevance. Even after letting go, it does so for it's own protection against irrelevance. If we are our perspective, we are our ego/relative self. If we let go and accept we're all-of-it/none-of-it we still experience it from the perspective of the ego/relative self.

It may be that we do not actually "have" a perspective/ego/relative self and that our sense of "self", "presence" or "awareness" is a simple side-effect of perspective and not the other way around. Awareness for an information collecting/sorting/storing sensory suite may be as a center of gravity on a planetary body.

Good stuff.

So to me, the logical next step is to start mapping the limits to the genius. We have pretty much reached the end of what we can talk about from this level of consciousness. (Not that there isn't plenty still to learn)

I think this is a viable method of getting people to connect with their perspective, and thus help to bridge all of humanity. I want humanity without physicality, not just people on alternate universe thread without physicality. I would like to see it's advancement into things like disease treatment and potentially even an app.

If Chaol isn't coming back, he has likely already predicted the integration of the genius into global consciousness.

Whether he has passed the torch remains to be seen, but this is the next step that most intrigues me.



Instead of lottery or a job, using easy things that would already be quite relative. (e.x. a license plate that reads "sxy")


-How are things being made more relative
-How is possibility being structured
-Do certain forms of interaction increase relativity
-how is intuition guiding to new possibility
-how are entropy and randomness contributing
-how long does manifestation take
-how long does it take to get manifestation rates to increase
-how far can one take the law of energy conservation


I'm putting together a crew to begin making more scientific recorded observations. You interested Jesse? You'd have to drive to A^2

I'm thinking concurrent geniuses all with similar intentions, and then comparing how the unfoldment occurs for each individual. Maybe weekly or bi-weekly meetings.



Also, Chaol once mentioned something about making a red top hat appear. And making it relevant to experience, over and above just interaction. (Ex. friend in town for party, go shopping, lady brings red top hat). Did you have any thoughts or clarifications on means of creating intentions that are logical to experience?

Hot damn! What a great conversation!

It seems to me, that if we take the genius seriously and understand that we must allow for the desire to logically fall into place, that there is no effective limit.

The genius requires a kind of sincerity to it's use in order to broadcast an accurate intent. This makes it hard hard to "test" or map "objectively". (this may be a limiting belief on my part but I am yet to see evidence to override the belief)



What is a humanity without physicality? Can you define it? Most of our interactions are moving "on-line" does that qualify? Can you elaborate on what you'd like to see in an app?



Could you please elaborate on what you see the next step to be?



It's been hard to tell the difference between what may be a simple mind scan for something we believe is possible and calling into perspective something we doubt is possible.



1-Like a vending machine arm selecting a candy bar and dropping it into the door.
2-By the logic of what is most relative to experience.
3-Yes, it seems to me that sincerity without doubt and patience without expectation leads to more fruitful interactions or at least the tendency to forget an intent (lol).
4-If used with Chaol's laws, we find it functions as a wet finger to the wind or an ear to the ground.
5-Entropy would be the logic that breaks down structure allowing for new possibility in it's place, randomness would be about the same.
6-Whatever is most logical in the context.
7-I am thinking the answer is the same as "6".
8-I don't (personally) see a limit to it.



Not sure where "A^2" is, but I am in Detroit. I am down to meet up in the area here or on line in the various ways available to us.



It's hard to say because for me it plays out like a paradox. It seems that where there is HIGH possibility(uncertainty) we find opportunity for strange occurrences. This high uncertainty seems to be guided by a combination of intent/sincerity/patience.

But wtf do I know?



Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 09/14/2013 08:03 AM

Hmmmmmm! Found this on a Seth website:

[link to www.nirvikalpa.com]


"The idea of a meaningless universe, however, is in itself a highly creative imaginative act. Animals, for example, could not imagine such an idiocy, so that the theory shows the incredible accomplishment of an obviously ordered mind and intellect that can imagine itself to be the result of nonorder, or chaos – [you have] a creature who is capable of mapping its own brain, imagining that the brain’s fantastic regulated order could emerge from a reality that itself has no meaning. Indeed, then, the theory actually says that the ordered universe magically emerged – and evolutionists must certainly believe in a God of Chance somewhere, or in Coincidence with a capital C, for their theories would make no sense at all otherwise."

The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events, pg 141-142

[link to vimeo.com]

Fine line between predator and prey

12th House tried to post some information here and GLP wouldn't let her post the links. So, I blogged it.

It's about the Chauvent Cave in France. And someone at another forum took some of the photos from it and saw things in them. Some pretty interesting conclusions came from this, one of which is the drawings have a hidden map of earth in them.

Anyway, if you're interested in ancient history, here's the blog post with the links:

[link to rememberingantiquity.wordpress.com]

Gates of Horn dream exercise from Seth. It's an ancient Egyptian practice.