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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/16/2011 06:54 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Please rate this forum at the top of this page, if you haven't already.

Anything from "Absolute BS" to "Amazing" is appreciated!
 Quoting: Chaol


See you later, everyone!

Time for me to go again.

I'll be back about the time this thread has 143 ratings.
 Quoting: Chaol


This thread now has 145 ratings.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 08:53 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Please rate this forum at the top of this page, if you haven't already.

Anything from "Absolute BS" to "Amazing" is appreciated!
 Quoting: Chaol


See you later, everyone!

Time for me to go again.

I'll be back about the time this thread has 143 ratings.
 Quoting: Chaol


This must be one of the "rules" that Chaol has made in order to find his way back to this forum in this world.

So, folks, we'll need to get the vote count up to 143 so as to entice Chaol to come back. For what it's worth, I link to this thread often when replying to posts where the information in this thread is pertinent. We need to get more people involved in studying and then rating this thread.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1435940


Something like that.

But thanks to everyone who voted (including those who voted more than once).
Patricia

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07/16/2011 08:56 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, where is the differentiating point between your verse and ours? You realize of course that all you said may be incorrect as it applies to our verse?
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." ~God
Chaol

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07/16/2011 08:58 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Anybody try this? It causes a little bit of wooziness and, when you look up, everything around you continues to strobe. But, there are some revelations to be had in performing this exercise. Recall that Ecsys teaches that everything is made in the moment; that every moment is brand new and different from the prior moment ("prior" would be a misnomer. Everything is present now, right?)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1435940


You got it!

For my Verizon Droid, I found a free app by searching "strobe light" in the market place. The app is called "Strobe Light". By pressing the menu button on the phone, the colors and the speed will change.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1435940


Play around with the frequency. There's no need to look at it that close. 0.5 meter is fine.

What you're experiencing is a representation of you creating "now". (The representation standing in for something that cannot be perceived.)
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Oh, and I voted "nice", which you certainly are, and it also seems somewhere between "reasonable" and "amazing". Time will tell I guess.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1395875


Thank you.

Yes, time will tell :)
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Based on everything you've said so far, where you live matters a LOT? Depending on what you want to do, it could make sense to move?

I wonder if you can dowse directions for places to move to. I should try that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


Where you are would be called a "perfect reflection" of all of the relationships in your perspective.

It doesn't matter where you live. The process works the same.

It doesn't matter how far you travel for work. The process is the same.

It doesn't matter how far you travel for pleasure. It's all a "perfect reflection" of your current relationship values.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Tru, dat. But it's going to take a while for me to build enough connections to make EC active for me. In the meantime, maybe moving might make building more connections easier, no? Sorta like building a coffer dam, so you can build the big one?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


Ecsys is already active for you.

You need only realize one small connection.

Never mind about the big ones.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:09 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[link to www.nationaldreamcenter.com]

If we're moving into the dreamworld, things are going to get weird.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


The funny thing is that people don't realize how weird things are now.

This world would be alien to someone taking a peek from 10-15 years ago.

Grandma would say, "People have gone crazy!"

And... boom goes the dynamite.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:12 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, I wonder - why does time always seem to move in one direction only? There's nothing in the math that would prevent time from moving back and forth, but you never do see anything moving in reverse, like a barroom tidy (instead of a barroom brawl). Or you never see anyone rising from the grave, get progressively younger and then jumping into their mother's womb?

So, if we're in "control" of all of this (we are keeping track of everything), there must be some sort of "diode" somewhere in the structure that filters out things going in reverse?

If you wanted to turn the weird up to 11, how do you go about removing that diode? Where are these filter circuits? I want to cut the traces...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


You could call the diode "logic", although you could say that it prevents you from perceiving things that aren't logical.

All of your scenarios are interesting to think about, but you really only experience that which makes the most sense (all things in your experience considered).
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:17 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well, I can't turn a pencil into a pen by putting it in a box, but somehow a third wildflower appeared in the backyard, when I spared two others from the weekly yardwork.

I keep studying the symbols. I need more information it looks like, if I want to turn a pencil into a pen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


You could if it made sense to you.

Is there a logical map to the question of, "How do I get there from here?"

If there is, then you can experience it.

Try the easy question of, "How do I get a pen into my pocket?" and think of the many ways that it could happen.

All of the ones that are logical from your current perspective can be experienced.

Your logic sense can, and does, change at every moment.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:20 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well, I can't turn a pencil into a pen by putting it in a box, but somehow a third wildflower appeared in the backyard, when I spared two others from the weekly yardwork.

I keep studying the symbols. I need more information it looks like, if I want to turn a pencil into a pen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


Chaol is going to tell you that there is a connection there. :).

Of course, in using the neuroicon symbols, you would see neither a pen nor a pencil. You would see a geometrical figure that could be "dressed up" as anything: pen, pencil, cat, rabbit, wildflower, weed, etc.

This is the goal, as I understand it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1435940


The geometrical symbols and the pen is the same thing.

You just see a particular geometry and give it a name and other attributes. It all seems perfectly normal to you.

What you perceive it as is entirely dependent on its relationship (to you) with the other things around it.

It would 'become' something different not by changing it directly, but by changing the relationships.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Considering that I still cannot see how those particular symbols can be turned into the word "constitution", I am amazed at anybody who would even try to translate the neuroicons into a dictionary. This is why I am so interested to see what you've come up with. Any hints at all would be helpful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1435940


This would be quite a task, but it will be interesting to see how it comes out.

Keep in mind that the Ec language is completely useless without an understanding of Ecsys (and neuronics), however. I would definitely recommend having a good working understanding of the Genius first before even thinking about Ec.

(Ec seems not to be grasped by anyone here, unfortunately, which is why I suggest that.)

Though for the enterprising mind, following is something that may help:

1) Each word in the dictionary should be one of four popularity types.

You will need to determine the popularity of each word in the dictionary. You can accomplish this by performing a search query to Google to determine word popularity. (e.g., [word] has x number of results)

Further, as the purpose of the dictionary is to translate English into EC and vice-versa, each EC word will have between 1 to 4 characters.

The more popular a word is in the English language, the fewer the number of characters it needs in EC.

-popular: the top 30 most popular words in the English language – 1 character
-common: the top 1,000 most popular words in the English language – 2 characters
-unusual: the next 1,001-50,000 most popular words – 3 characters
-technical: all other words (50,001-1,000,000) – 4 characters

2) Your first step would probably be to determine the relevant categories of each word. (As in, "to which of the 4 categories does the word belong?" And should each be assigned "low", "neutral", or "high" weight?)

3) Your next step would probably be to determine the order of categories for a word. (As in, "Which category should come first, second, etc.? Keep in mind that, for example, the "common" words as noted above have 2 character and, thus, would be assigned to only 2 categories.)

4) Your next step would probably be to filter invalid combinations. (Against a list of valid combinations, of which there are 66. See the Ec chart)

5) Your last step would probably be to determine the final value for a word. You would take the 1-4 highest-ranking, valid combinations, along with the weight.

In the dictionary, each word’s final value could possibly be stored in 8 columns. (As each word can be up to 4 characters and there are 2 components per character (input and output)).

For example:

Word: Example
Final Value of Character 1 input: S
Final Value of Character 1 output: I
Final Value of Character 2 input: negI
Final Value of Character 2 output: posL
Final Value of Character 3 input: [null]
Final Value of Character 3 output: [null]
Final Value of Character 4 input: [null]
Final Value of Character 4 output: [null]

So, "example" would have 2 characters in Ec: "SI" and "-I+L"

Also:

-No two words should have the same final value. Each final value in the dictionary should be unique.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol,

Can you show me how to create something using the square of a prime numbers?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466


Numbers are just a game in the mind.

You don't create something with numbers*

Something creates with perception.

*even when you are perceiving the relationship between 2 numbers the result is influenced by all things in your perception, including the dust mites by your feet.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I would like to know about the fifth element.

Since there is a fifth element it must exist and if it exists even if it's only in one's perspective there must be a purpose for it.

Can you please discus the fifth element and it's relation to the other four elements?

Thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488035


Hello!

The fifth element is a movie starring Bruce Willis.

(Just kidding)

It is a kind of placeholder for something that does not exist.

I could say that the fifth element is the element that causes the other elements to exist. Something that cannot be perceived.

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770


I/We are that fifth element correct?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288466


The fifth element does not exist.

(And the other 4 are better are pretending that they do, because someone is paying attention to them.)
Chaol

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07/16/2011 09:59 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hey dude really interesting stuff, props for thinking of a new way to communicate. I agree that words don't do any justice for what we are experiencing but I have one problem.

I've been to your website and spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how you get entire words from simple lines and curves. Im sure that I just havnt looked at the scenarios in the right way, but its still frustrating none the less.

Any chance you can help me to better understand? I bet i've heard this same question many times and apologize in advance, and I understand if you don't want to take the time to reply

Thanks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454828


Sure, I can help.

But first, have you gotten the Genius to work for you?

The values of the Ec language are dependent on the 4 values of the Genius.

Understand how it works, use it, and you can understand how Ec works.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 10:02 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
At the dawn of the universe we existed without physical form. We lived exclusively in a dream-like state, free of physical constraints. Every thought became real, instantly. There were no limitations on what we could do.

While in this state, some of our ancestors created a new way to perceive things. This new model, physicality, slowed down the process of perception so that there appeared to be a great distance between our thoughts and our perceptions. Although useful in some ways it made it appear that we were divorced from our perceptions. It took hold anyway, and a new universe was born.

[link to ecsys.org]

well that`s odd, you are reworking the concept of big bang

why
 Quoting: aether


If there is no Big Bang, how could it be re-worked?

The Big Bang is now. The "bang" is the present moment, not something that already happened.

We are always banging.

[I typed in past tense for clarification. It's all happening now (but we perceive certain things as distant in time and space the less relevant they are to our current perspective).]
Chaol

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07/16/2011 10:05 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
At the dawn of the universe we existed without physical form. We lived exclusively in a dream-like state, free of physical constraints. Every thought became real, instantly. There were no limitations on what we could do.

While in this state, some of our ancestors created a new way to perceive things. This new model, physicality, slowed down the process of perception so that there appeared to be a great distance between our thoughts and our perceptions. Although useful in some ways it made it appear that we were divorced from our perceptions. It took hold anyway, and a new universe was born.

[link to ecsys.org]

well that`s odd, you are reworking the concept of big bang

why
 Quoting: aether


because the big bang never happened. what you are has no beginning or end. the big bang is a fiction required to pretend there is a start and an end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1228157


I would add that it is actually a reality that seems logical from the current maths perspective.

There are no real illusions. There are only an "infinite" number of realities, as there is nothing beyond the illusion (i.e., reality does not exist).

The Big Bang is a fact until it isn't anymore.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 10:13 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
For those following this thread and are struggling to learn neuronics, read the above. It's proven to be a gem for me. In fact it opened my eyes to something, perhaps something even Chaol is not aware of: it's really not necessary to learn neuronics.

Think about it. Chaol states that by learning neuronics merely thinking with the neuroicons will change your perspective (reality). But they're just thoughts. That means your normal thoughts (now) must be doing the same thing - shifting your perspective too.

Probably in ways you don't really want.

So, how about figuring out how your "normal" thoughts map to perspective shifts? That is, try figuring out how your normal thoughts shift your perspective, even small ones.

I think you'll find a "map" already exists in your mind, in your own personal mental language, that doesn't require learning to think in neuronics. Later on, going back to study the formalism of neuronics may help clarify it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1103475


Yes. It's just something you already do.

If you're trying to figure out how your reality works, don't start with Ec.

You can reference the Genius to find out how you already do what you're doing.

If you didn't know about neuronics or Ecsys and figured it out independently it would probably end up looking like the Genius but with your own names, symbols, etc.

When you understand that you do the following at every moment without thinking about it, then you've got it:

1-Create symbol: Represent things physically.

2-Find possibility: Create or use space for your symbols

3-Interact: Allow the symbol or representation to interact with the various elements of your reality in #2

5-Structure: Develop structure around the interactions.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 10:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, my IP block has been banned. Are there any other forums you check?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1459296


No.

I previously posted an introduction on the David dIcke forums but there was no response.

Last Edited by Chaol on 07/16/2011 10:37 PM
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Another constraint I think I also missed - when you create a string of EC symbols, does it need to be pronounceable? I notice that some of them are vowels and some are consonants, which would lead me to think that two consonants can't really mesh too well without having a vowel between them?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1461083


If you're working from the pronunciations here: [link to ecsys.org] can you give me an example?

You wouldn't add anything additional to make it sound "better". The pronunciations are what they are for a particular reason and would only expect embellishment in the concepts that dictate what symbol is to be used, not in the symbol itself.
Chaol

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07/16/2011 10:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, where is the differentiating point between your verse and ours?
 Quoting: Patricia


What do you mean?

I'm already in your world, and functioning therein.

There is no objective difference between my world and yours.

You realize of course that all you said may be incorrect as it applies to our verse?
 Quoting: Patricia


Why do you say that?

There is only one way perception works, and that's mostly what this thread is about (no matter what "world" we think we're in).
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2011 12:42 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Another constraint I think I also missed - when you create a string of EC symbols, does it need to be pronounceable? I notice that some of them are vowels and some are consonants, which would lead me to think that two consonants can't really mesh too well without having a vowel between them?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1461083


If you're working from the pronunciations here: [link to ecsys.org] can you give me an example?

You wouldn't add anything additional to make it sound "better". The pronunciations are what they are for a particular reason and would only expect embellishment in the concepts that dictate what symbol is to be used, not in the symbol itself.
 Quoting: Chaol


[link to i.imgur.com]

That was what I was working on when I quit :P

So, more questions. So the icon set allows you to go from a higher value element to a lower value element, but not the other way around. To do that you do what? Take the outputs and add them together? That's what I've been doing. And try to arrange the outputs so you can add them to get what you want?

Can you add elements of different strengths to each other? L + -P = what? It's obvious that +L + +P = +I, but not sure about the other ones.
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2011 01:07 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Well, I can't turn a pencil into a pen by putting it in a box, but somehow a third wildflower appeared in the backyard, when I spared two others from the weekly yardwork.

I keep studying the symbols. I need more information it looks like, if I want to turn a pencil into a pen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1414933


You could if it made sense to you.

Is there a logical map to the question of, "How do I get there from here?"

If there is, then you can experience it.

Try the easy question of, "How do I get a pen into my pocket?" and think of the many ways that it could happen.

All of the ones that are logical from your current perspective can be experienced.

Your logic sense can, and does, change at every moment.
 Quoting: Chaol


Well, the closest thing I can see of how you would get there from here involves jumping timelines, where in one timeline you have a pencil in the box and the other, you have a pen. Somehow you have to sync them up to each other and then you exchange places on the tracks.

Well, I can't jump timelines yet that I'm aware of, but I just lost two hours going from the fridge back to the computer to get a drink.

You're not really living until you're saying WTF at least once a day.
Chaol

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07/17/2011 02:02 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[link to i.imgur.com]

That was what I was working on when I quit :P

So, more questions. So the icon set allows you to go from a higher value element to a lower value element, but not the other way around. To do that you do what? Take the outputs and add them together? That's what I've been doing. And try to arrange the outputs so you can add them to get what you want?

Can you add elements of different strengths to each other? L + -P = what? It's obvious that +L + +P = +I, but not sure about the other ones.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1385274


L + -P = L-P

+L + +P does not = +I

+a + +b = +a+b

You seem to be bringing your knowledge of maths when thinking about Ec.

No need.
OverTheRainbow

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07/17/2011 05:08 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Welcome back Chaol!

Good timing from my perspective (which is funny). Although in the meantime, I've found something that made some things click which makes me feel "further" from your method, although it all abosultely correlates with your methods and I'll be keeping my toe in the thread as it may come in useful once I've gotten used to the "Oh crapola!" of my recent learnings.

I do think I accidently used your method though...

I've been wanting my front room to get organised, look more modern etc. I figured I needed money to do that and have been fretting about it.

I then decided to do what I could with what I had. I made a shelf unit with cardboard boxes, used wallpaper I had been given but which is too dark to use on our walls to cover it, and knitted a border to tidy up the rough edges. I was so proud of it I showed it to everyone who came in.

Within a week of making it, my OH found my dream sofa downstairs! (someone was moving from my flats and chucked it out - it's a perfectly good black leather corner sofa, perfect for my family - and matches the wall paper unit!). I had been wanting one for forever but had given up on it. Not only that, but a lady who had promised me proper storage boxes, again I had given up on, turned up with a load of boxes meaning I could move all the kids toys out of the front room and inculded some that again match the sofa to further tidy up the front room!

Actually, if you agree that the above was unconcious use of "your" system, could you answer a couple of questions?

1) Is there a "more wise" part of me that knows what relationships exist in my perspective and will (if I'm in the "right" frame of mind) lead me to rearranging symbols as needed to bring in the perspective I'd ideally like at this time?

2) As the box shelving unit was the catalyst to all this and I now think I know this, would finishing it be likely to bring more of that into it? Would throwing it away be going backwards? What should I *do* with it now?

3) Do "feelings" have any place in your system?

Last Edited by OverTheRainbow on 07/17/2011 05:10 AM
Anonymous Coward
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07/18/2011 02:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol

can you help me refine the use of the genius. I created the pendulum with orange flagging tape and a nut and bolt and put it on my key chain as a physical representation of winning $5 million a year for 10 years on the PGA Tour. So far my golf is getting worse since I did this. Any advice? Thanks.
wattsup

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07/18/2011 05:33 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
OUffff....

Been reading your two threads here on GLP and All I can say is thank you, you have a lot of patience...

I want to start using the Genius as you said for a startup. Let's say I want a very particular sailboat.

Step 1 would be to have a picture of the boat I want or I can draw one just like that with the model number and the company name on it.

Let's say that for step 2 I would kiss it every night and morning.

For step 3 I don't know what to do (as I'm french and find your instructions on: [link to ecsys.org] not clear enough for me

And finally for step 4, I was to put on the picture some of my old sailboat piece of ropes


Chaol, could you please help me to see if my procedures are ok and please guide me for the #3 step.


All the best,
hf
Chaol

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07/19/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Are you ready for the next round of "OMG!"?

Coming soon to a theater near you on September 9th.

Buy your tickets now.
 Quoting: Chaol


Are you prepared to enter the world of dreams?
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 03:16 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Are you ready for the next round of "OMG!"?

Coming soon to a theater near you on September 9th.

Buy your tickets now.
 Quoting: Chaol


Are you prepared to enter the world of dreams?
 Quoting: Chaol


what exactly does that mean Chaol? Will physical world cease to be? Will I not be able to feel anything physically? I've been waiting for an aha moment with ecsys, neuronics and genius but so far nada, nothing.
OverTheRainbow

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07/19/2011 06:06 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Are you ready for the next round of "OMG!"?

Coming soon to a theater near you on September 9th.

Buy your tickets now.
 Quoting: Chaol


Are you prepared to enter the world of dreams?
 Quoting: Chaol


It's not really so different from this one, is it?

hf





GLP