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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
chaol (OP)
User ID: 183770
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09/03/2009 02:16 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I would like to know about the fifth element.

Since there is a fifth element it must exist and if it exists even if it's only in one's perspective there must be a purpose for it.

Can you please discus the fifth element and it's relation to the other four elements?

Thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488035


Hello!

The fifth element is a movie starring Bruce Willis.

(Just kidding)

It is a kind of placeholder for something that does not exist.

I could say that the fifth element is the element that causes the other elements to exist. Something that cannot be perceived.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:20 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
what do you think about love?

is this also a perspective of relationships between things?

and what´s about the unconditional love?

what role does it play in changing a perspective?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWERS!

have a nice stay in our reality my friend! hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762145


Hello!

Love is, perhaps, a convenient name we give to relationships when they're experience them in a certain way (under certain conditions, it could be said).

You may have two different names (perhaps opposite) for two kinds of emotions where we just have one (so to speak).

But really it's the same thing.

I'm not sure about "unconditional love". The concept doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 02:27 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I do think that there is something special in prime numbers, although my thoughts on it are incomplete and might not sound coherent to others, however I will try.

As unlikely as it may sound, the OP's answer was along the lines of my own work. Symmetry of numbers goes a lot deeper than one might at first imagine, on exploration, numbers and "components" of numbers exhibit symmetry of different types, not just reflection symmetry. The number nine is important in this concept, and the multiples of nine, e.g. 36. 36 would "interact" with another number creating symmetry at a different scale to that of 9. Fibonacci is manifest in the numbers in extraordinary ways and while it is true that the "mechanism" is simple the manifestation of the Fibonacci patterns is very, very deep, a kind of attractor, so to speak. I am over time, through effort "internalising" the Fibonacci numbers and their patterns.

I asked of the OP's perspective, so that I my experience my own ideas in relation to his.


Hello!

We can make the mistake and think that numbers are the absolute truth. Or we can think that numbers are simply representations.

The apparent "absolution" of the numbers to us (and the beauty of the relationships, the symmetry) is because it is most relative to our perspective.

You could say that it is a cognitive bias.

Everything has symmetry and what would be called "prime numbers" (or prime relationships). It is just that the concept of numbers is so ingrained in our reality that we can see this more readily.

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770

Hello OP,
yes agreed, the exploration of prime numbers is a way amongst ways to understand relationships. The numbers are abstract concepts and not absolute, and we may experience meaning with the relationship between these abstractions leading to a greater understanding.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:28 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
well, someone made it over, but here is the other place, if it is not a kind of crime here, I guess.

[snip]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 505190


Hello!

The relationships that I am referring to are not the human drama kind of relationships. They're the relationships between representations.

It could be three of your fingers, or your white t-shirt with a bowl of cereal, or anything at all.

Human drama includes many kinds of relationships, not just 1. If there are two people there could be an untold amount of representations for them, each having its own kind of relationship.

Again, the relationships are not about human drama so terms like "control", "wrecking the relationship", "avoid", "step on my consciousness", "slaves", etc., do not apply.

When you consider that pretty much everything is a matter of perspective, those concepts are not really thought about.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
And also if you want to - explain two corrupt political parties who think that them passing more laws is their act of going to college, only to have more corruption out of criminal mismanagement and weasel discrimination from the first people who started up drugs in this Country - we were there but not involved being in college until we were and can prove that we were attacked and fed more lies out of their faces.
(snip)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 655001


Hello!

Again, it's all a matter of perspective.

I ask you one question.

If you committ a crime, what part of you has committed a crime?

Is it your heart? Your fingernails? The heel of your toe? Or your brain?

When we will think of these dramas in a different light, then the result will be a bit unrecognizable in the current one.

Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 02:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
That example helps but still hard to grasp for an earthling.


Hello!

I've thought about your response more.

Let me ask you a question. Can you tell me one thing that you are aware of?

Thanks :)
 Quoting: chaol 183770


I am aware that I am aware. This is what consciousness is to me.

I understand what you are talking about as far as relationships go, but what you are delving into is trying to interpret extra-dimensional concepts with the limitation of 3rd dimensional human language. We automatically attach labels to everything in order to give it meaning.

The human part of my current incarnation tells me that consciousness is the awareness of being aware and that all external occurrences are a result of my own awareness and thus my own intepretation.

"God", in my opinion, is collective consciousness. Which could also be interpreted by "relationships" as you put it.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:33 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
OH, they don't have "time" because actually to them I suggest they think that there is too many people in this world, and they only can be selfish, help theirselves, their lies and more of their deception, while blaming anyone else for what they do.

They are Correct. There are too many people in this World, according to them. The problem is that they are the too many people, and not the people, of this world. (snip..)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 655001


Perspective!

Thanks.
User 225527

User ID: 760291
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09/03/2009 02:34 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thread: The Federal Reserve Will Be Removed From The Finances Of The United States

OP: "hahahahah"

Thread: Uggghhhh.... my husband thinks I am NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP: "Like the other poster said: "QUIT NAGGING HIM."
Focus your attention on other things. If you are going to sit and worry over some germs on a shopping cart, imagining a 'worst case scenario' then perhaps you need to seek some counselling.
And maybe it's best that you stay off of conspiracy-type fear mongering sites...
Seriously... don't worry so much: It's not healthy!!!!"

Thread: Second Sun new video from Padova (ITALY) (Page 2)

OP: "An amazing video! Does not look like a lens flare or a sundog!"

Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat August 29 (Page 7)

OP: "Hardy-har-har cracker-jack. Go to another thread, Nancy and Zetatalk are here to stay baby!!!"

Should I continue?

Next, please...
 Quoting: User 225527


whatever
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:36 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
the most interesting thread here for months....but my english is too poor to understand everything....
chaol....do you speak german also?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762411


Hallo!

I speak no German.

But remember that English is too poor to express everything, and you'll be fine.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:37 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
me again, the german guy
what you are saying reminds me of the seth books published by jane roberts.
is there a connection?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762411


Hallo!

Those are certainly interesting books.

No direct connection.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 02:43 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
(snip) But then perhaps you won't be talking to really stupid people here on this forum. Well, that is what I think that they really may be, because if you find fault with them, they always will find fault with the other person first. (snip)

Well, back to the current discussion on relationships and perspective - I hope someday my computer can do that also. That would really be something, luckily they are not the ones who are going to program a computer any time soon.

They will state that they have a brain and a perception and a consciousness and will continue to do so, even if you continue to tell them or any of us perhaps - differently.

Well, continue on with the website, hope it is up soon.

Continue on!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 477310


Hello!

From one perspective we could say "humans are getting more stupid". From another we could say "humans are becoming more intelligent".

What we're seeing now, generally, is a massive shift of what intelligence means.

For example, a teacher could say that her students are becoming more illiterate because they text on their mobiles so much.

Another teacher could say that his students are actually becoming more literate, just not in the same way that the old measuring rod can attest.

Humans are actually becoming *more* intelligent, though not in a way that is immediately obvious.

By the way, the website is already up. Just search for "ecsys"

Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 02:59 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, if I can grasp what you are saying, there are no Universal laws, just perspectives?


How could one learn to exercise more control over his own perception?
Anonymous Coward
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Guatemala
09/03/2009 03:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thanks OP

[link to www.ecsys.org]

abduct
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 03:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I am aware that I am aware. This is what consciousness is to me.

I understand what you are talking about as far as relationships go, but what you are delving into is trying to interpret extra-dimensional concepts with the limitation of 3rd dimensional human language. We automatically attach labels to everything in order to give it meaning.

The human part of my current incarnation tells me that consciousness is the awareness of being aware and that all external occurrences are a result of my own awareness and thus my own intepretation.

"God", in my opinion, is collective consciousness. Which could also be interpreted by "relationships" as you put it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 166024


Hello!

Yes, this is where use of the language is difficult.

Besides being "aware of being aware", are you aware of anything else?

And, if so, are you completely aware of it?

(Yes, consciousness = relationships. An example of this would be two sounds together creating a third. The result of the two representations interacting, the third sound, is consciousness.)

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 03:19 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, if I can grasp what you are saying, there are no Universal laws, just perspectives?

How could one learn to exercise more control over his own perception?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757588


Hello!

There may be universal laws but I am not aware of any, nor aware of others who are aware.

I suppose if there were any 'laws' then they may be the following:

1) Everything is represented somehow
2) Representations naturally interact

Of course these would not be considered real laws here. But one can extrapolate laws from its vagueness. The resultant 'laws' would seem useful in the current system but would not really be useful in another system where there is a different cognitive framework.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 03:31 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
How could one learn to exercise more control over his own perception?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757588


Following up!

It might not be said that one controls or does not control perception. The concept of control is not really compatible with it.

The key here is, again, relationships. Practically-speaking, this means that if you are looking at an apple and want to see an orange there is more to changing the perception than averting your gaze.

You must change the relationships.

There are other relationships you may not see. Like the relationship of the apple to the table on which it rests. A table that has certain meaning to you. Or the meaning of the apple, bound with a certain aspect of your personality.

Some people intepret the relationships that they can't see as "it was meant to happen" or " it was not meant to happen".

There is no fate, in that respect. There are just relationships that you're not paying attention to.

You may be bound to perceive the apple for years because the other relationships in your life dictate it. It is not that they have control over what you experience. It is just that you are probably not aware of the myraid of connections it has with other things.

It could be as small of a thing as the necklace you've been wearing for 13 years enables every car you buy to have mechanical problems. Or it could be that you don't like men who remind you of your father because of obvious reasons. Or that the name "Gertrude" causes your daughter to have certain experiences.

Change the representations and you change your experience.

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 03:51 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
So, if I can grasp what you are saying, there are no Universal laws, just perspectives?

How could one learn to exercise more control over his own perception?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757588


Following on!

"Universal laws" must be as simple as possible in order to actually be universal.

The moment we invent a law for something we have made things more complex and inapplicable to most of the actual universe.

We could say there are universal laws in our own world, but these change through time and have no basis in reality.

Thanks.
SecretMan
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09/03/2009 04:01 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
what is our future hold?? and by the way i guess you don't know what our future hold...what is going to happen.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 06:12 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hello!

It is something we each do quite often. I wouldn't describe it with the same concepts, of course, but I suppose the idea is the same.

In our world, many of us have learned how to do it intentionally.

It can be thought of as "focus".

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770




I was just going to say the same thing. I am practising hermetics at the moment. "most relative" sounded to me like "most focused upon".

I believe hermetics to be on the correct path. You are just a hermetic (coupled with a couple of ideas from theoretical physics) who is pretending to be a time traveler.

Good effort. I'm fairly impressed. I don't have your complete knowledge.

Hermetics practise intentional focus too. This includes much later multidimensional consciousness.

I am only at the beginning of the practise but I experienced my first split of consciousness and it is quite freaky and cool at the same time. It only lasted 30 seconds or so.

Apparently one is able to experience not just 2 lives simultaneously, but thousands and more.

When practising Franz Bardon's work, I have already noticed things that would seem like hallucinations, such as when paying for a train ticket I was 100% certain the price said 9.90 Euro on the machine. I mean 100%. I looked at for several seconds and was cursing how expensive it was (short journey). Then I cursed and went out the paying screen. I went back in straight away and the price was 7.10 Euro. I'm not joking. It kind of freaks you out. There was zero ambiguity in this. I was 110% certain.

There have been a few instances like this.

This sounds like what the last poster described as "emotion with vision".

my little
rant
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 06:34 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
what is our future hold?? and by the way i guess you don't know what our future hold...what is going to happen.
 Quoting: SecretMan 762488


Hello!

That depends.

What would you like to know?

Thanks.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 06:47 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...
I believe hermetics to be on the correct path. You are just a hermetic (coupled with a couple of ideas from theoretical physics) who is pretending to be a time traveler...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570


Hello!

Any path could be said to be just as 'correct' as any other. This is because there is no 'final desination'.

I'm not sure what a hermetic is. I'll have to learn about it more.

...
I am only at the beginning of the practise but I experienced my first split of consciousness and it is quite freaky and cool at the same time. It only lasted 30 seconds or so.

Apparently one is able to experience not just 2 lives simultaneously, but thousands and more...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570


Perhaps it is more an an inclusiveness.

For example, your left hand could say that it was momentarily aware of "an alternate hand" (your right hand, from your perspective). The experience would, indeed, be quite strange to it. "How is this possible?", it may think.

The hand did not create this consciousness, it was already there. The hand just became aware of a relationship that exists.

There are many kinds of consciousness 'within' our own bodily consciousness. Hundreds of trillions of cells, for example, each with its own.

If one very intuitive cell were to become much more aware of the nature of its existence then it could feel that it is part of a brain, for example. If it expanded farther it could experience what it would be like to be you. At that time you could say there would be no difference between your experience and its expanded experience.

Thanks.
Maxim

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09/03/2009 07:17 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
bump for coolness...
SecretMan
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09/03/2009 07:19 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.


what is our future hold?? and by the way i guess you don't know what our future hold...what is going to happen.


Hello!

That depends.

What would you like to know?

Thanks.


what happen in 2012?? and will the planet X coming or will this the end of the world? write back thank you.
chaol (OP)
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09/03/2009 07:43 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
what happen in 2012?? and will the planet X coming or will this the end of the world? write back thank you.
 Quoting: SecretMan 762608


Hello!

Pretty much the same as always happens. The same patterns seem to repeat throughout history. (Symmetry)

The shift that you seem to be referring to is mostly a shift in consciousness. The same kind of shift happens every few years. For example, 2000, 1991, 1982, 1973, etc., and so on every 9 years. Larger shifts occur in larger amounts of "time". Again, symmetry.

We interpret these internal shifts as external shifts in our environment. There's not really much difference.

It's a way for us to understand what is going on with ourselves. If you were in the year 0 and were telling someone about the future you would have to use the terms appropriate to the time. There would be much information you would need to leave out because they would not have the conceptual framework to understand what it is you are saying.

For example, instead of telling them about how many people are on the planet in 2,000 years you would just say that the village has expanded greatly and the lights they are so familiar with have diminished and moved the the top of the world.

The sky is a lot different during the time of the Maya. But we usually interpret ancient artifacts using current vision and miss the point.

Thanks.
Joyce Junior

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09/03/2009 07:48 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I like op, he makes my brain smiiile herethere


+1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 675128


First sense I've had the pleasure of reading in a long time.
chaol (OP)
User ID: 183770
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09/03/2009 08:08 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
For example, instead of telling them about how many people are on the planet in 2,000 years you would just say that the village has expanded greatly and the lights they are so familiar with have diminished and moved the the top of the world.

The sky is a lot different during the time of the Maya. But we usually interpret ancient artifacts using current vision and miss the point.

Thanks.
 Quoting: chaol 183770


Following on!

To clarify on the above, the things that are felt that are happening physically in ~2012 are more things that happen in a way that is not physically-oriented.

It's just that it's much easier and more relative to our experience to think of it in physical terms. Even describing emotional or psychological changes we recently experienced is difficult.

But if I say that I had an "explosion of creativity" yesterday then you can better grasp what I am saying.

The planet is no more in danger over the next 4 years than our sun is.

Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 08:26 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I like this thread. Here's some thoughts on the nature of matter, from "Seth Speaks":

"The nature of matter itself is not understood. You perceive it at a certain "stage." Using your terms now and speaking as simply as possible, there are other forms of matter beyond those you see. These forms are quite real and vivid, quite "physical," to those who react to that particular sphere of activity. In terms of probabilities, therefore, you choose certain acts, unconsciously transform these into physical events or objects, and then perceive them.

But those unchosen events also go out from you and are projected into these other forms. Now the behavior of atoms and molecules is involved here, for again these are only present within your universe during certain stages. Their activity is perceived only during the range of particular vibratory rhythms.

When your scientists examine them for example, they do not examine the nature, say, of an atom. They only explore the characteristics of an atom as it acts or shows itself within your system. Its greater reality completely escapes them.

You understand that there are spectrums of light. So are there spectrums of matter.

Your system of physical reality is not dense in comparison with some others. The dimensions that you give to physical matter barely begin to hint at the varieties of dimensions possible."

herethere
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2009 09:07 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Even though I have done the same as another poster and checked the op's user id..
There is something here that intrigues me to know ends.
The way Op writes is different from the past posts so, im going to give credit where credit is due.
First off I would like to thank you on a monumentus thread, you are courteous, you do not seem in any way a loony and the way you explain everything seems...well...sort of right.

It takes me back to when I was in uni and tried magic mushrooms for the first time. Its hard to explain because like you said my whole perspective shifted. I saw us not as physical beings, but has light all drawn together. Each light is drawn to another light at certain times in its life span, to help, hinder or whatever. The way I saw it though I have never been able to experience again, im just wondering if the shrooms managed to shift the way I saw this world at that point in time. The earth was also not a physical entity but it seemed to be a collection or consciousness, Im probably babbling but what you have said here has seriously sparked a memory.

Thanks again and even if you arnt legit, I think people could very much so learn from you.
Joyce Junior

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09/03/2009 09:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hello Marco,

I have not finished reading the thread as of yet, but if the question has not been asked and you would be so kind.

How does one consciously alter perspectives? That is when you are not in the dream state.

Edit...

I may have worded this incorrectly. I will continue reading and see if I can answer my own question.

Last Edited by C.C. Corry on 09/03/2009 09:43 PM
Joyce Junior

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09/03/2009 10:11 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Marco,

Have you developed any videos or do you plan to do so? I have visited your website and am very interested in your work.

If you truly wish to push your theories, you could accomplish your task a lot quicker if you posted videos on YouTube and then, using the video as a basis, conduct interviews.

If your ultimate desire is to have people relearn the world they live, you could serve that purpose to a higher degree outside of this particular medium.

News