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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Things are getting weirder, aren't they? Lots of surprises in this new land.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


It has only just begun :)
 Quoting: Chaol





Heh! rockon
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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12/21/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Thank you. Something I realized as I read this is I also have a reverse thing going on too. There are things I don't want to change.

I have several relatives, all in their late 80's and early 90's. I enjoy them very much. I have often thought that something I am doing is keeping them here. Because really, they probably should have left by now, or at least some of them. Their trials are difficult, yet somehow, each of them makes it through to a brighter day, at least in some way.

They inspire me as I watch them and they have a tenderness that brings tears to my eyes. I have even felt guilty for keeping them here even though I can't say I know how I am doing so, if in fact that is the case. Since it's my perspective, I guess it is.

I know Chaol says this:

"If some of your perceptions are good while others are bad, then it is difficult to see your reality as a single perspective."

This is the challenge for me.
 Quoting: Unit3


It is not necessary to see your reality as a single perspective.

But if you really want to, then it would probably be difficult when some values have meaningless designations (because you would then be assigning your own values that have no useful meaning).

For illustration only, in what perspective might a bad monster be good? It's own.

Which perspective is correct? Neither. They're both illusions.

Considering one thing is good while an other is bad is a waste of energy because neither exist. Both are a part of your perspective.
 Quoting: Chaol




Aha! Thank you for that thought. They are in my perspective and I assign values.

Now tell me how perspective is illusion? Because I can manipulate it?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/21/2012 08:42 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Dodec
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12/21/2012 09:03 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Step 1, Step 2, Step 3...

you make the order above through your perspective and you transition through it.

But it's arbitrary and meaningless. The order does not matter, only the relationship. (The same relationship is still there even without the order than you perceive.)

Why not make it Step 2, Step 3, Step 1?

"Win the lottery" first and then see your numbers match. Make up your own logic for the perspective.

Has someone ever told you to taste "milk" that was actually water? But you could swear that it was milk for the first couple of seconds?

The details are not important. Only the perspective.

But if we focus on the details then we miss the importance of perspective and forget that it takes precedence.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol


Conceptually I get that perspective of relationships is all that matters and that the rest is illusory and subject to the logic we "believe" for our current perspective.

But, how can i shift through a current representation in my "real" perspective in order to arrive at winning the lottery first?

It makes sense that it is possible, I'm just not sure how to practically achieve it.

I could create relationships around the way I would act, see, etc. as if I had won the lottery and then let my perspective shift filling in a past where I had winning numbers. Just not sure how it is feasible

Any help is appreciated,
DODEC
Jesse Sovoda

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12/21/2012 09:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


I imagine it "happened" something like this...

In the beginning (yes the very beginning) there was nothing. This nothing is not nothing, it's something. It is impossible to define as it lies outside of anything we can or will ever perceive (it is perception). This "ability to perceive" required additional things be generated at the same time. It "presupposed" a random soup of pure "true" randomness. Within that "perspective", patterns emerged and not necessarily in a physical sense. Could have been the most simple of concepts at first, but in "true" randomness (without time) you can have complex patterns emerge (including time and the observer). Some could just have initial conditions where minute changes over time are allowed. Include continued existence for a concept that can grow in meaning and adjust itself based on what it is currently experiencing.

You see, I don't know that nothing exists, because nothing is as random as possible. Nothing is ever provable. You can only collect evidence of experience and work to predict and understand the probability for it to happen. This evidence allows you to judge how the future can behave.

As I see it, this is how you(we) got here. Or if nothing else, it is how we formed within the framework of these "physical bodies" and their perceived environment. All of your past could have been generated (in whole) at this moment with you as complex as you are.

Edit- Not only did we come into being capable of experience like this, I believe it is this possibility space that we abuse by using the Genius. We provide perspective a possibility for something previously not logical. Once we allow it to interact it is queued into experience. The more irrelevant the symbol the more possibility for that beautiful "true" random to be abused(utilized).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



I totally agree with the bolded statement.

I couldn't say about the rest but thank you for sharing it. Gives me a lot to think about.

When I consider that I am at this very moment, perceiving a body, a computer in a room, sitting in a chair, a past, a future, family, etc:, etc:, etc;, without knowing how, then it must be that there is a mind or intelligent design. Something that is providing "material" for me to arrange into perspective.

How could it be otherwise? I don't know what I'm doing but there is some kind of GENIUS involved, LOL!


What is your definition of the subconscious? (Let's not assume any of us knows what anyone else is basing logic on.) I am thinking, at this point, the subconscious is the universal mind that I tap into and re-arrange for perspective of endless possibilities.
 Quoting: Unit3


Subconscious, from a hypnotherapy standpoint is the part of you that you're unaware of. I'd argue that's true.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Why is everyone's subconscious the same?
 Quoting: Unit3


If we are one perspective, then that part of you that you're not aware of is the same for everything.
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Unit3

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12/21/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...



I totally agree with the bolded statement.

I couldn't say about the rest but thank you for sharing it. Gives me a lot to think about.

When I consider that I am at this very moment, perceiving a body, a computer in a room, sitting in a chair, a past, a future, family, etc:, etc:, etc;, without knowing how, then it must be that there is a mind or intelligent design. Something that is providing "material" for me to arrange into perspective.

How could it be otherwise? I don't know what I'm doing but there is some kind of GENIUS involved, LOL!


What is your definition of the subconscious? (Let's not assume any of us knows what anyone else is basing logic on.) I am thinking, at this point, the subconscious is the universal mind that I tap into and re-arrange for perspective of endless possibilities.
 Quoting: Unit3


Subconscious, from a hypnotherapy standpoint is the part of you that you're unaware of. I'd argue that's true.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Why is everyone's subconscious the same?
 Quoting: Unit3


If we are one perspective, then that part of you that you're not aware of is the same for everything.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




I do feel there is a part of me I"m not aware of, just wondering how I got there.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:12 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You seem to be implying that the symbol is independent of your perception.

The interaction is your perception, as is the symbol, the potential, and the law.

The laws that you make are as flexible as your perspective. As are the symbols.

There is only perspective. Nothing else need be.

And for perspective there is only one "law"
 Quoting: Chaol


I can buy that.

So the one law is there is only perception?

And can you explain how I know use my perception even though I don't know HOW I use it?
 Quoting: Unit3


The 'law', if ever there was one, is that no energy is independent of your perspective.

So, accordingly there is nothing beyond your perspective. Your perspective is all there is.

You know how to use something because you represent it in an other way.

You don't have to know how computers work in one way -through on/off states - because you know how to use how the process is represented - through icons and gestures. (Though the on/off states are also representations of something else.)

In this way we can breathe without direct knowledge of respiration, walk and jump without a direct understanding of calculus, see without a direct understanding of optics, etc.

Because everything is represented. And we work with the representations that we are familiar with (i.e., that are most relative to what we consider ourselves to be).

We make use of the Genius for everything because we are able to represent everything.

I hope this clarifies it a bit.

"A true genius is not someone that knows about things but is someone or something that has the ability to figure it out"
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:14 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just want to say thank you chaol for providing the genius. It is true. It has worked for me finally today, I started around 1-2 weeks ago.

The steps to making a Genius map follow the basic principles of Ecsys Prime.

1-Create symbol: Represent your desired thought, object, or experience physically.
(My symbol was a hand image drawn of a va jay jay, that I did)
2-Find possibility: Create or use space for your symbol or the interactions.
(I drew the va jay jay on a small peice of lined white hand notebook paper and placed it inside my coat jacket pocket)
3-Interact: Allow the symbol or representation to interact with the various elements of your reaity
Placed the folded symbol into my inside coat jacket
5-Structure: For added bonus, develop structure around the interactions.

(open and folded it multiple times in a certain way, and reopened it the same way every 2-3 days)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23462202


It's useful is properly used. I'm glad you made use of it :)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
He, he! I still don't fully understand how we do this, yet it keeps happening more and more in my life. And, one day, it was so much, I changed a Genius plan a little, and it slowed things down. Yet, I still don't know what I'm really doing. 1dunno1

I will say this Jesse, I too have a witness to some of this stuff which makes me realize in some way, my perspective is overlapping to theirs. Sounds like you are experiencing the same. What is your wife's response to all this?
 Quoting: Unit3


Some of us are quite frightened of this power and the ability to do anything.

The ability of the Genius, the subconscious is only as limited as our perceptions.

What could be more frightening to these few than what can be perceived?

Once you've seen it, you cannot unsee it!

To those that are a bit scared by the power of the subconscious or what it's capable of I can say that the only thing to fear is wanting to unsee it.

Being "okay" with whatever is of your Genius is probably the best thing you could do for your total perspective.

Yes, there are some frightening things there. But it is only frightening because you have learned how to avoid it.

There is nothing actually scary in and of your subconscious.

Once you stop resisting you'll find that you are okay with that part of yourself.

You'll feel better, too ;)
 Quoting: Chaol



It was funny because I thought I was ready for new stuff and found out I wasn't quite as ready as I thought!

How does one deal with resistance? And, who is resisting?
 Quoting: Unit3


Because we are entering the next level of Ecsys I will respond a bit differently (with the assumption that some of us are all ready comfortable with the basics).

There is no need to deal with resistance. It is impossible to not resist.

You could say that we are beings resisting a state of nothingness, so we create illusions to seem like we exist.

(Non-existence is so.. boring and is the most-resisted idea there is because it implies no relationship with anything.)

We are doing the resisting, despite our best efforts to create something outside of ourselves and withhold responsibility for our universe ;)

We are even resisting our own eyeballs because we are still saying that this Nothing must be our eyeball. Really, we don't know anything else.

But there are different levels of resistance, I suppose. When we look at an other aspect of our self (an other value of our perspective) and say, "That person is not us. They are different," then we are resisting further. That's beyond resisting nothing. That's resisting even the illusion.

When we resist even the illusion we create yet more illusions.

The more we resist what we are the more our experience may not make sense. Or it may seem that the universe is acting against us or not giving us what we want.

What else can be expected when we try to sever the relationships in our own perspective?
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Now tell me how perspective is illusion? Because I can manipulate it?
 Quoting: Unit3


Moving a bit beyond the limits of English, allow me to alter Ecsys Prime a bit in an illustration.

"We perceive that which takes the least amount of energy to perceive" becomes,

"We perceive that which takes no energy to perceive" (as no-energy is the least amount)

Meaning, we do not actually perceive of anything because we pretend to perceive Nothing.

We create an illusion of two things and the relationship between the two illusions seem like a real something. We perceive the relationships of illusions that do not exist.

In reality we experience only different kinds of nothingness.

Perspective is an illusion because we are perceiving nothing.

(Someone else could say, for simplicity, that we create simultaneous with the perception.)

The perspective was not there before itself.

Perspective is not independent of anything. It is dependent only on illusion. (Two illusions form a relationship that is the perspective.)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Conceptually I get that perspective of relationships is all that matters and that the rest is illusory and subject to the logic we "believe" for our current perspective.

But, how can i shift through a current representation in my "real" perspective in order to arrive at winning the lottery first?

It makes sense that it is possible, I'm just not sure how to practically achieve it.

 Quoting: Dodec 20177375


Let's take a look at how you do this all ready.

When you fall asleep you start to imagine things. You are not really 'asleep' at this time but you are pretending to be. You are creating an illusion that you are in order to create the relationship that "results". Your mind does not care if something is real to you or not because everything is equally real.

So you start to hear a sound in your room that is not there to your waking mind and your dreaming mind says "Now I am creating a relationship, a bridge between the two minds. I created an illusion of a sound and you created a real relationship with the dream world. Now you are asleep because that sound formed other relationships. The sound became a bird became a park became an entire story."

You start with a single symbol, a representation. It interacts with other representations, forming a relationship. The symbol is an illusion (whether in your Genius model or not) that creates a "real" relationship.

I could create relationships around the way I would act, see, etc. as if I had won the lottery and then let my perspective shift filling in a past where I had winning numbers. Just not sure how it is feasible

Any help is appreciated,
DODEC
 Quoting: Dodec 20177375


That's about it. The "sound" was never there but it does not matter. It effects a relationship that is more relative to you (more real, as it were).

Create the 'sound' of you being as rich as you want to be. Don't just imagine. (Imagination creates an entire world.. in your imagination. It's real to itself but you'd want to make it relative to your physical experience if you want to experience it in this world.)

So don't just imagine it. Allow it to have an effect on your physical reality.

That's how you're pulled into the world of your dreams, becoming reality.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:46 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I do feel there is a part of me I"m not aware of, just wondering how I got there.
 Quoting: Unit3


The part of you you're not aware of is all ready represented in that which you are aware of.

That is to say, those parts of you that you don't know about are those parts that aren't immediately relative to you but exist entirely in your current perspective in an other way. (If they did not you would not be able to experience anything that you did not know.)

That is to say, the bug in the corner is a perfect representation of the trip you will take in 5 years to South America.

What matters is the geometry of relationships. So the relationship your current perspective has with the bug in the corner is the same as the trip you will take in 5 years. (This is how everything exists now and here, and nothing else need to.)

Every possibility is a perspective. And it is all now and here.
TSWB21

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12/21/2012 10:47 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
There is not alternate universe!!! ... damn you people are stupid
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:50 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Gespenst, here's the NASA announcement we've been waiting on...magnetic highway at the end of the Solar System....


[link to www.rawstory.com]
 Quoting: Unit3


The biggest "intergalactic news" should be released shortly.

I don't know if the world is ready for it but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




1) When you got off the escalator at the mall and saw the popcorn, was the popcorn to your right?

2) What areas would you say your expertise is in? I ask this so I know what questions to ask you. I have many, heh!
 Quoting: Unit3


The popcorn was in front of me because I actually did a 360 to stop and laugh.

My specialty is in the Genius model and ecsys language.
 Quoting: Not-Chaol 1466035




Did you turn left or right when you did the 360?


How do you connect a Genius to a nexus point?

And how do you ascertain a nexus point? If we create our perspective, don't we also create the nexus point?
 Quoting: Unit3

I turned left.

The nexus point is a built in portion of the genius. All possibility (anything used for space, energy or capacity) is a nexus point. The size of the nexus point can vary. New York City on 9/11 = huge nexus. Your bathroom at 2:36 am yesterday = small nexus point.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1484132


Every relationship is a nexus point.

The more something has a relationship with other things the 'bigger' the nexus point.

I use the Sun because it represents physicality and has a greater interaction with our world than, say, Coca-Cola. (Although that could be used, too, strangely enough.)
Chaol

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12/21/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
There is not alternate universe!!! ... damn you people are stupid
 Quoting: TSWB21


You're actually right about that there is no alternate universe.

That's why I put it in quotes ;)

3 Cookies for you!!!

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/21/2012 11:35 PM
Love&Peace2012

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12/21/2012 11:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Gespenst, here's the NASA announcement we've been waiting on...magnetic highway at the end of the Solar System....


[link to www.rawstory.com]
 Quoting: Unit3


The biggest "intergalactic news" should be released shortly.

I don't know if the world is ready for it but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
 Quoting: Chaol



I'm ready been waiting so long. Love your thread by the way. :)
hearts
Love&Peace2012
Chaol

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12/21/2012 11:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Gespenst, here's the NASA announcement we've been waiting on...magnetic highway at the end of the Solar System....


[link to www.rawstory.com]
 Quoting: Unit3

Even though we have learned that space is not physical, this article about reaching the very edges of our solar system still excites my neurons. Look at what we have here with the Voyagers I and II: symbols, logic, interaction and possibilty. All of the gods are involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


But isn't everything physical?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1484132


Everything physically-perceived is physical and has physical properties.

However, physical objects and space are not inherently physical.

Sounds, light, thoughts, ideas, etc., are physical when interacting with physicality. When not interacting with physicality we do not perceive of them (as our perspective is physically-oriented).
Chaol

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12/21/2012 11:49 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Gespenst, here's the NASA announcement we've been waiting on...magnetic highway at the end of the Solar System....

[link to www.rawstory.com]
 Quoting: Unit3

Even though we have learned that space is not physical, this article about reaching the very edges of our solar system still excites my neurons. Look at what we have here with the Voyagers I and II: symbols, logic, interaction and possibilty. All of the gods are involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


I still don't understand why the website says:

"Your physical body is mostly non-human.

Emotions like happiness and loneliness, diseases like cancer and schizophrenia, and abilities like cognition and communication are actually infections we get from animals, food, the environment, outer space, and other people."


Sounds to me like there is physicality (but we are evolving away from it) and also there is something outside of a single perspective. Otherwise, why would one create an infection from outer space?
 Quoting: Unit3


It should be, "What you consider your physical body is mostly non-human."

Other values in your perspective influence ('infect', though infect as not used in a negative, parasitical sense) one-another. This isn't just a sort of hundreth-monkey effect but entails everything in your perspective.

This is obvious when we smell something (that invokes a memory or emotion, for example) but less obvious when we think or see something, feel heat and pressure, get sleepy, etc.

We may get an ability (or illness) from outer space but outer space is still a part of our perspective. It's simply a way for one to interact with an other.

Could Chaol possibly believe in a Higher Power but not call it that or not recognize it? Has anyone ever asked Chaol who created him? (I have a question waiting on him in another post earlier in this thread. I believe he does believe in some kind of outer influence....after all, he says it just happened that he met his girlfriend....what made it "just happen?:)
 Quoting: Unit3


Irrelevant.

An 'outer influence' is a less-relative part of perspective, not something independent of it.

Regarding my meeting my girlfriend someone asked if I had known that I was going to. I basically implied that there are some things that I don't want to know about and that I did not know who she would be.

Perspective, nothing more. Nothing outside of it, despite our best efforts to make there be something there.

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/22/2012 12:00 AM
Chaol

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12/21/2012 11:58 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Has anyone ever asked Chaol who created him?
 Quoting: Unit3

Okay, okay. Look. There is something that is, like, on the tip of my tongue.

Consciousness is the result of at least two things interacting, right? Consciousness is the geometry formed when two things relate.

You are conscious, right? I am, too, I guess. I mean, here I am! Here you are!

This means that at least two things are interacting, forming a consciousness which we are calling "me".

When Chaol is in our world, he is conscious (or appears to be! lol). That means that something is interacting with something else in order to form a geometry that results in a consciousness that we are calling "Chaol".

So, what is Chaol when he is NOT intersecting this world? What are WE when we are NOT intersecting this world?

Could it be that we are also what Chaol is? Could THAT be the "other you" that is waiting for us?

Chaol has asked very plainly, "If I am you, then what am I?"

Well...
Well...
Aaargh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


Clever, but the obvious question knocks on the door.

Where is your dream self right now? Could that be the 'other you' that awaits?
Chaol

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12/22/2012 12:02 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Gespenst, here's the NASA announcement we've been waiting on...magnetic highway at the end of the Solar System....


[link to www.rawstory.com]
 Quoting: Unit3

Even though we have learned that space is not physical, this article about reaching the very edges of our solar system still excites my neurons. Look at what we have here with the Voyagers I and II: symbols, logic, interaction and possibilty. All of the gods are involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


I still don't understand why the website says:

"Your physical body is mostly non-human.

Emotions like happiness and loneliness, diseases like cancer and schizophrenia, and abilities like cognition and communication are actually infections we get from animals, food, the environment, outer space, and other people."


Sounds to me like there is physicality (but we are evolving away from it) and also there is something outside of a single perspective. Otherwise, why would one create an infection from outer space?

Could Chaol possibly believe in a Higher Power but not call it that or not recognize it? Has anyone ever asked Chaol who created him? (I have a question waiting on him in another post earlier in this thread. I believe he does believe in some kind of outer influence....after all, he says it just happened that he met his girlfriend....what made it "just happen?:)
 Quoting: Unit3


I think he likes to use language that he believes we will understand. Chaol's "infected" is a funny word. The way I see Chaol use it, there is an implication of an almost symbiotic relationship with that which "infects" or has a relationship to us.

If you "have" cancer, you're exploring the relationships around "cancer". Chaol had noted previously that to drink alcohol is to merge your perspective with the "alcohol" perspective. We experience these as "infections", but they're an exploration of what we perceive to be alternate perspectives or even ways of perceiving (if we consider more "intense" drugs etc..).

[snips]
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


Well-put :)
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Has anyone ever asked Chaol who created him?
 Quoting: Unit3

Okay, okay. Look. There is something that is, like, on the tip of my tongue.

Consciousness is the result of at least two things interacting, right? Consciousness is the geometry formed when two things relate.

You are conscious, right? I am, too, I guess. I mean, here I am! Here you are!

This means that at least two things are interacting, forming a consciousness which we are calling "me".

When Chaol is in our world, he is conscious (or appears to be! lol). That means that something is interacting with something else in order to form a geometry that results in a consciousness that we are calling "Chaol".

So, what is Chaol when he is NOT intersecting this world? What are WE when we are NOT intersecting this world?

Could it be that we are also what Chaol is? Could THAT be the "other you" that is waiting for us?

Chaol has asked very plainly, "If I am you, then what am I?"

Well...
Well...
Aaargh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853315


This is my predicament too.

What am I without my perceptions? If Chaol is so aware that he is creating his perceptions, then doesn't he have some kind of awareness as to what his beingness is as well? Or, is he only aware of how he creates them and that's it.

And, why did he say there would be a split where each would go its own way in infinity. If this is true, who decides this? To me, Chaol is stating there is some kind of power beyond him or else he is capable of making that split happen.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9834739


It is easy to miss the universal importance of perspective but that is the answer for all of the above.

There is no decision or being independent of your perspective. Your perspective 'creates' these things (if you're looking for creation).

Asking if there is a higher power is like taking a trip through space. You are certainly welcome to think one direction is up and the other down if that makes it easy for you. But there is no up or down in space. Up and down are the same and, therefore, irrelevant.

The question is, again, "What is outside of my perspective?"

We look for something that does not exist and, more importantly, does not need to.

That is the higher power you seek. But, unfortunately, it cannot be perceived, is beyond perception, is irrelevant, is beyond perspective, is without consideration, etc.

It does not exist and does not need to.

Of this I can really say nothing at all ;)

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/22/2012 12:11 AM
Ambra
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]

Expanded Perspective Exercise

[snips]

To expand your perspective, change the values of the elements. When you change the values you are not only changing your relationship with that thing but seeing how expansive your perspective really is.

[snips]

Let me know if something can be clarified.
 Quoting: Chaol


As I am catching up with the thread, I started this exercise last night.
I hope I am doing this right.

I have a small owl-shaped beeswax candle that used to sit on top of the fireplace. I like the little owl, so I never burnt it, and used it as decoration.

I decided to keep the symbol and change the other values, so I moved it to the bathroom shelf.

Before:
symbol - wax owl candle
interaction - all elements in the living room
possibility/space - shelf above fireplace
logic - lifting up to dust off shelf every now and then

Now:
symbol - wax owl candle
interaction - all elements in the bathroom
possibility/space - shelf above bathroom sink
logic - placing it on sink every time I brush my teeth

Is this correct?
Am I supposed to give the candle another function other than decoration?

Also, because at the same time I am naturally moving things around and cleaning up clutter (though without intentional new rules/logic), how can I specifically keep track of the effects of having moved the owl? Right now, it feels as if I simply moved the owl, except for the added new rules which keep my attention to it in a different way.

Thank you for any clarifications.
Chaol

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]

Expanded Perspective Exercise

[snips]

To expand your perspective, change the values of the elements. When you change the values you are not only changing your relationship with that thing but seeing how expansive your perspective really is.

[snips]

Let me know if something can be clarified.
 Quoting: Chaol


As I am catching up with the thread, I started this exercise last night.
I hope I am doing this right.

I have a small owl-shaped beeswax candle that used to sit on top of the fireplace. I like the little owl, so I never burnt it, and used it as decoration.

I decided to keep the symbol and change the other values, so I moved it to the bathroom shelf.

Before:
symbol - wax owl candle
interaction - all elements in the living room
possibility/space - shelf above fireplace
logic - lifting up to dust off shelf every now and then

Now:
symbol - wax owl candle
interaction - all elements in the bathroom
possibility/space - shelf above bathroom sink
logic - placing it on sink every time I brush my teeth

Is this correct?
Am I supposed to give the candle another function other than decoration?

Also, because at the same time I am naturally moving things around and cleaning up clutter (though without intentional new rules/logic), how can I specifically keep track of the effects of having moved the owl? Right now, it feels as if I simply moved the owl, except for the added new rules which keep my attention to it in a different way.

Thank you for any clarifications.
 Quoting: Ambra 30625431


Hi.

Did you create the wax owl candle?
Ambra
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Hi.

Did you create the wax owl candle?
 Quoting: Chaol


No. I bought it a couple of years ago at a fair market.
My understanding was that we should use any object/symbol already around us (toothbrush, coin, etc.). A different exercise than creating a Genius symbol. Is this correct?
Ambra
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
On another note, I recall Chaol saying at the beginning of the thread, to create new words for experiences we intend to perceive.

My neighbors got a white kitten, very cute (and the clone of my white cat Leonardo when he was a baby cat). The kitten of course likes to play and explore, and she has been a pest getting in and stealing the food on all occasions. My main activity has been chasing away the cat for a while now, lol. Basically, I am under siege at all times.

When she gets bigger, my poor Leo may get mistakenly chased instead of her...

Today, as I was exercising with the open door, I thought of Chaol's words, and came up with the word "kabuchu" to express the experience of an open door in complete relaxation. Within the concept of "kabuchu", my cats are free to move around and get in and out. it's not a limit to them, only a border where the unwanted stays out.

Kabuchu represents all entrances, including the gate to the garden, a peaceful territory.

Since I implemented it a few hours ago, I've seen the kitten only once (vs. all the time), and I chased her saying the word out loud to her. The door is open as I am typing this!

I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I am assuming there will be some bleed-through as the new experience adjusts itself.
Unit3

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12/22/2012 11:39 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

As part of the more advanced uses of Ecsys and neuronics we will learn to make use of the understanding that every experience is one of unique symbols.

The doorknob you touched yesterday is entirely unique from the one today. (One that has of course interacted with other aspects of our perspective that would be called "past" and, thus, seems like the same from yesterday.)

You use the Genius at every moment.

It is what 'creates' the illusion of physically-oriented existence.
 Quoting: Chaol







I can see this already. What overwhelms is the dialogue that must go along with each of these experiences. I almost think I almost prefer not knowing how I use symbols as I do now.

It seems your life would be non-stop chattering of Ec so as to perceive: a body, feeling the chair you are sitting on while at the computer, listening to the heater and tv from the other room, which you are also 'creating' along with sunlight shining through the window and the smell of lunch wafting by. And at the same time remembering what all you want to experience. Whew!!!

Sounds very busy to me. tounge

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/22/2012 11:41 AM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I set my electronics free and now they have a mind of their own. They won't post if they don't want to! My Kindle is still cooperating so far.
 Quoting: 6853315 1298031

I can see there is a definite space thing going on, LOL! Would love to hear more about it but it might be difficult for you right now. I am looking forward to the day when I can interface with electronics organically. Lucky you!

Edit: Btw, did you use a GENIUS to set them free? Also, I think you could use a GENIUS to get them to co-operate with you a little better.
 Quoting: Unit3


Some may have success is modeling an electronic component in their mind (i.e., in a more relative perspective) and working with it there.

In this way you could, for example, turn on a device from 20 feet away or (as I tend to do) fix something that is broken.

If someone was talking with herself during this process the exchange could go something like this way:

"My laptop is broken. I will make a Genius model of the laptop in my mind because the laptop exists in my perspective. Although it is not as relative as is my hand it is entirely in my perspective and it can be fixed if I change ("fix") my perspective of it. So now I imagine a black box with pictures and other information on it, which will serve as my symbol of it. I need not know how a laptop works but only how perspective works because it exists entirely in my perspective. I imagine it in the palm of my hand. My fingers interact with the pictures and manipulate the information. But wait.. it's breaking. My fingers have much more difficulty in moving the pictures around. I will put my mental laptop down on the floor and crack my fingers and exercise them. I will also blow into the laptop to clear away any defects within the perception. Now I will pick up the laptop and close it and open it again. I will now power on the other aspect of my mental laptop (the more physical laptop that was broken). It works, so now I can use it."
 Quoting: Chaol




So you don't really need remote control, do you? Heh! afro

I imagine the inner dialogue is what we are heading to if we are to learn how you function. To me, your results are very similar to what we do here through meditation.

The main difference I see is that 'your' way is more aware of how things work resulting in a completely different experience compared to living life in the astral body.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

You'll often be surprised about how ingenious the path to your desired perspective may be.


You can also make use of multiple representations simultaneously.

The illusion and the real thing are both representations of the same thing. You just call one illusion real because it's a sibling and the other one not-Real because it's a cousin.

Hope this helps.
 Quoting: Chaol 20177375




Your first statement brings a thought to me. If we are taking symbols to arrange patterns (in our mind) and then letting the Genius do the work, what is the Genius exactly?

Here's what you say on the website:

"Using the Genius you can create a map from one perception to the next. If you can imagine it then you can show yourself how to get there from where you are. The best part about the Genius maps is that we're working with locations in your mind, not physical locations. The steps above should provide the necessary intent to your "subconscious" to make that shift happen"

What do you call the subconscious?

And I can see that I make use of multiple representations simultaneously because look at all that's going on at any time. What I wonder about is how you get any rest knowing how you do this? It seems you would be always conscious of what you are thinking. It doesn't sound restful to me at this point in my understanding.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
Now tell me how perspective is illusion? Because I can manipulate it?
 Quoting: Unit3


Moving a bit beyond the limits of English, allow me to alter Ecsys Prime a bit in an illustration.

"We perceive that which takes the least amount of energy to perceive" becomes,

"We perceive that which takes no energy to perceive" (as no-energy is the least amount)

Meaning, we do not actually perceive of anything because we pretend to perceive Nothing.

We create an illusion of two things and the relationship between the two illusions seem like a real something. We perceive the relationships of illusions that do not exist.

In reality we experience only different kinds of nothingness.

Perspective is an illusion because we are perceiving nothing.

(Someone else could say, for simplicity, that we create simultaneous with the perception.)

The perspective was not there before itself.

Perspective is not independent of anything. It is dependent only on illusion. (Two illusions form a relationship that is the perspective.)
 Quoting: Chaol



This is nice. Thanks.

I can believe we perceive that which takes no energy because otherwise, how could I have so much going on at any time?

So something is only real if it is independent? That would comply with the idea I don't exist because I am dependent on illusions. (But I'm still hung up on this....can't believe I don't exist and the things I see, smell, do, etc: are nothing.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I do feel there is a part of me I"m not aware of, just wondering how I got there.
 Quoting: Unit3


The part of you you're not aware of is all ready represented in that which you are aware of.

That is to say, those parts of you that you don't know about are those parts that aren't immediately relative to you but exist entirely in your current perspective in an other way. (If they did not you would not be able to experience anything that you did not know.)

That is to say, the bug in the corner is a perfect representation of the trip you will take in 5 years to South America.

What matters is the geometry of relationships. So the relationship your current perspective has with the bug in the corner is the same as the trip you will take in 5 years. (This is how everything exists now and here, and nothing else need to.)

Every possibility is a perspective. And it is all now and here.
 Quoting: Chaol





Verrrrrrry interesting. Makes me go hmmmmmmmmmm. So I see why I bring brochures of the trip I want to take, home. And leave symbols in spaces I want to interact with more. I'm just trying to figure out how I do this already.

Currently, (except for Genius experiments) I don't leave symbols around where I want new or expanded experiences.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka





GLP