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Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

 
Unit3

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12/24/2012 01:41 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


Thank you. ;o)
 Quoting: Unit3


Nothing you can't do yourself through the power of dream influence.
 Quoting: Chaol



I see this but don't totally know how to do it. I'm still learning. afro
 Quoting: Unit3


Several of us have all ready done it here and on the Dream thread.

But the value of their accomplishment is not fully realized.

It's not so hard. It just takes a bit of practice. One of the best ways to practice something while dreaming is to practice something similar while awake. If your intention is to be able to communicate with someone else in their sleep then try to whisper through the space of physicality to their ears when awake (as one example).
 Quoting: Chaol





AWESOME!!!!!! This is cool. Okay, so I'd also like to pick up a pen and write when I read stuff during dream time, so that I might have a better change of remembering it when awake. Hmmmmmm, so my taking notes from what we chat about here is an example of that, maybe?

Also, are you talking about the dream where 3 of us in separate locations, in a 24 hour period experienced a similar type dream? And we haven't realized the value of that accomplishment? It was one event, right?

See, I want to have that happen again and again until it's my reality!!!!
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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12/24/2012 01:45 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Do you have any suggestions as to how to be more aware in dreams? We call it lucid dreaming and there are all kinds of software and devices to help us achieve it.

[snips]
 Quoting: Unit3


Possibly. But first may I ask why you would want to do that?
 Quoting: Chaol


You told a poster to write down what they read, in a dream, the next time. To me, this is lucid dreaming.

I rarely am able to do something like read something in a dream and decide to write it down.
 Quoting: Unit3


All dreams are lucid and fully-involved.

The question is, "How is my dream related to my waking life?"

Part of you is dreaming as you read this. The human mind is all ways dreaming. When we sleep more of our mind does it.

Oftentimes we don't remember the life of our dreams because it is not relative to our physical brand of being.

For practical purposes, I'm sure someone in this forum can point you to lucid dreaming exercises that may help (if that's what you'd like to do).
 Quoting: Chaol




Wow! (the bold statement)

What I'd really like to do is make the dreamtime experiences, my reality in waking time. That's why I was experimenting with symbols from dreamtime when I found your threads, and started incorporating what I'm learning here with what I was doing.

Edit: I need to clarify this. I am trying to integrate people like who are in this thread into my dreamtime and make my dreamtime my waking time. Iow, I think I'm trying to perceive the 2 worlds merged.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/24/2012 01:49 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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12/24/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

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This is more a Western-world thing. There are plenty of places left with blue skies, though it's interesting how many of us don't notice the change.

It's an illustration of the resistance to physical change, with depopulation of weaker (generally older) persons thrown in.
 Quoting: Chaol




Actually, that perspective, from what I can tell, is only among a certain number of 20 somethings. Twenty something's always hate older generations as far as I can tell. (from studying 60's-current twenty somethings.)

Which brings up a good question, what constitutes what manifests in the world?

For example, the chemtrail idea is not a reality to generally older people. In fact, the ones I know are kickin' it! Other examples would be the things you describe about X, such as: hot water has a certain tone, cold water another, etc:.
 Quoting: CatCarel


Everything that 'exists' has a value in your current perspective.

That's the only manifestation.
 Quoting: Unit3



So I perceive "my" world as generations that differ? And I perceive you saying that in your world hot and cold water have different tones?

It's all my perspective? And I can change it to one where "my" world is one of abundance for all, with crazy, awesome technology and abilities to travel the universe with friends?
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Ambra
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12/24/2012 01:58 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
A small revision, which may have less resistance.

Mahlvallah = "I enjoy the freedom of my living space"

I like it better. This may even help me in finding the dream home to buy (I am renting now). I stopped searching, but I will resume thinking of the Mahlvallah concept.

The thing is, that when one is defining a concept to "get rid of a problem" will always have resistance in it. One should define a new desired experience instead. :-)
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611




Well, the desired experience implies the undesired, LOL! However, I don't want to be completely flat about everything. I think it's all about acceptance, what do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


While I'll ponder on your other post, it seems to me that not all desired experiences imply the undesired, if that is already not relevant.

[New perspective]
Let's say I want to go to Spain for a holiday, as an example. It is a desired experience, and it would be fun to get the Genius working, but not going is not undesired, just irrelevant. Content either way.

[Change of current perspective]
In the case of the kitten, I really want to create a change, as I am tired of chasing after it, so the desired experience does imply the undesired (resistance), if perception stays focused on the problem (even indirectly), which is relevant.

This, to me is the trickier part.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How can you desire something if you don't un-desire something? If you are content if your desires aren't met, (if you don't get to go to Spain) then I think it's all irrelevant, but not so sure otherwise.

Yes, it is tricky to have a problem and change it without resistance. I know Chaol has said to relate to it differently to change perspective. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with a certain body function that slows down if I don't eat enough fiber! ;o(
 Quoting: Unit3


Another example.
If I desire a dog, I am not un-desiring my cat.

If the desire is opposite of the un-desired, than there is resistance about the un-desired. If the desire is just something new, I think it's different.
Unit3

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12/24/2012 02:01 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
It's interesting that you mention that, because I was pondering on the qualities of my new soon to be perceived companion, and thought something quite similar! :)
 Quoting: Ambra 30733622


Perhaps the only thing to ponder is to think of how you feel when you look into his eyes. It may sound corny, but the point is to get away from doing things that your Genius could do far better. Just give it an idea and it will take care of the rest.
 Quoting: Chaol





For my Genius, I put the desire is to receive flowers from my true love. I didn't put anything else but I would like someone close to my age. I didn't know how to insert that and figured it would mess things up anyway.
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




Well, the desired experience implies the undesired, LOL! However, I don't want to be completely flat about everything. I think it's all about acceptance, what do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


While I'll ponder on your other post, it seems to me that not all desired experiences imply the undesired, if that is already not relevant.

[New perspective]
Let's say I want to go to Spain for a holiday, as an example. It is a desired experience, and it would be fun to get the Genius working, but not going is not undesired, just irrelevant. Content either way.

[Change of current perspective]
In the case of the kitten, I really want to create a change, as I am tired of chasing after it, so the desired experience does imply the undesired (resistance), if perception stays focused on the problem (even indirectly), which is relevant.

This, to me is the trickier part.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How can you desire something if you don't un-desire something? If you are content if your desires aren't met, (if you don't get to go to Spain) then I think it's all irrelevant, but not so sure otherwise.

Yes, it is tricky to have a problem and change it without resistance. I know Chaol has said to relate to it differently to change perspective. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with a certain body function that slows down if I don't eat enough fiber! ;o(
 Quoting: Unit3


Another example.
If I desire a dog, I am not un-desiring my cat.

If the desire is opposite of the un-desired, than there is resistance about the un-desired. If the desire is just something new, I think it's different.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611




Good point.

Edit: But, doesn't the desire to have something, a desire not to not have it? Iow, what brings the desire in the first place?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/24/2012 02:10 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Jesse Sovoda

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12/24/2012 02:06 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...




Well, the desired experience implies the undesired, LOL! However, I don't want to be completely flat about everything. I think it's all about acceptance, what do you think?
 Quoting: Unit3


While I'll ponder on your other post, it seems to me that not all desired experiences imply the undesired, if that is already not relevant.

[New perspective]
Let's say I want to go to Spain for a holiday, as an example. It is a desired experience, and it would be fun to get the Genius working, but not going is not undesired, just irrelevant. Content either way.

[Change of current perspective]
In the case of the kitten, I really want to create a change, as I am tired of chasing after it, so the desired experience does imply the undesired (resistance), if perception stays focused on the problem (even indirectly), which is relevant.

This, to me is the trickier part.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How can you desire something if you don't un-desire something? If you are content if your desires aren't met, (if you don't get to go to Spain) then I think it's all irrelevant, but not so sure otherwise.

Yes, it is tricky to have a problem and change it without resistance. I know Chaol has said to relate to it differently to change perspective. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with a certain body function that slows down if I don't eat enough fiber! ;o(
 Quoting: Unit3


Another example.
If I desire a dog, I am not un-desiring my cat.

If the desire is opposite of the un-desired, than there is resistance about the un-desired. If the desire is just something new, I think it's different.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


The dog and the cat could be the same symbol, if you perceive them that way ("I only ever wanted one pet" or some other limiting belief). They certainly explore a lot of the same relationships. Same could be said for your "computer" (or anything else) though. If you desire a dog and a cat in tandem, then that would explore a different set of relationships than the dog or cat alone. Maybe this is where our concept of death comes from. Sometimes we need to move "something" out of the way to see the sun.

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 12/24/2012 02:07 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Unit3

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12/24/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
...


While I'll ponder on your other post, it seems to me that not all desired experiences imply the undesired, if that is already not relevant.

[New perspective]
Let's say I want to go to Spain for a holiday, as an example. It is a desired experience, and it would be fun to get the Genius working, but not going is not undesired, just irrelevant. Content either way.

[Change of current perspective]
In the case of the kitten, I really want to create a change, as I am tired of chasing after it, so the desired experience does imply the undesired (resistance), if perception stays focused on the problem (even indirectly), which is relevant.

This, to me is the trickier part.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


How can you desire something if you don't un-desire something? If you are content if your desires aren't met, (if you don't get to go to Spain) then I think it's all irrelevant, but not so sure otherwise.

Yes, it is tricky to have a problem and change it without resistance. I know Chaol has said to relate to it differently to change perspective. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with a certain body function that slows down if I don't eat enough fiber! ;o(
 Quoting: Unit3


Another example.
If I desire a dog, I am not un-desiring my cat.

If the desire is opposite of the un-desired, than there is resistance about the un-desired. If the desire is just something new, I think it's different.
 Quoting: Ambra 30767611


The dog and the cat could be the same symbol, if you perceive them that way ("I only ever wanted one pet" or some other limiting belief). They certainly explore a lot of the same relationships. Same could be said for your "computer" (or anything else) though. If you desire a dog and a cat in tandem, then that would explore a different set of relationships than the dog or cat alone. Maybe this is where our concept of death comes from. Sometimes we need to move "something" out of the way to see the sun.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda




Wow!

hf
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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12/24/2012 04:21 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
[snips]
@ Chaol,
once the word is created, do we have to stick with it, or can it be changed?
 Quoting: Ambra 30733622


You can change it all you like, as long as you use it properly.
 Quoting: Chaol




And by properly, you mean how we set it up to use it?

BAkegh means my experience of estatic wonder and I will use it every time I feel it? That kind of thing?
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Chaol

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12/24/2012 10:24 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
Jesse Sovoda

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12/24/2012 11:28 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you, and a very wonderful Christmas to you Chaol.
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
X Won
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12/24/2012 11:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
Unit3

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12/25/2012 12:18 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol




Thank you and the very same to you. blwkss


Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in this coming year.


xmas

:CHRISTM:
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Jesse Sovoda

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol




Thank you and the very same to you. blwkss


Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in this coming year.


xmas

:CHRISTM:
 Quoting: Unit3


hf

rockon
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Chaol

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12/25/2012 01:14 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!

Last Edited by Chaol on 12/25/2012 01:16 AM
6851335
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Merry Xmas all you X-humans
Ambra
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12/25/2012 03:04 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
xmas
6853315
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12/25/2012 10:34 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!
 Quoting: Chaol


Search for and download at archive.org. under "Texts"
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Chaol, is this the Book of Hermes (Emerald Tablets of Thoth) you were referring to as missing from an other user's perspective?

[link to www.crystalinks.com]

Also, I'm having some trouble with my Genius...I'll get around to asking for your help some day.

Merry Christmas to every one here!
 Quoting: X Won 30813586


No. The "Thrice Greatest Hermes" series by George Robert Mead, first published over 100 years ago. The last volume was just republished a few days ago ;)

.. but you can also find it via Google if you search for "Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3 by G.R.S. Mead [1906]"

Keep in mind that Hermes speaks only in metaphor (and here, translated metaphor).

I'll help you with your Genius when you ask. See you!
 Quoting: Chaol


Search for and download at archive.org. under "Texts"
 Quoting: 6853315 2154047





What do you mean Chaol, in the bold statement above?


I just tried twice to post the actual link of the 1906 edition and it wouldn't post. Strange, eh?

Anyway, it's........sacred-texts (dot) com/

gno/ th1/ index.htm



Edit: I'm reading this today and found this that caught my attention:

"... for when the knowing of existing things and being wise is taken from it, freedom from death is Time—not Life."

Wonder if you want to start a discussion thread on this text, XWon?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 09:07 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
You're too sweet. I know from talking with you that you are very patient, with all of us, and always try to clarify.

It's appreciated and you do very well with the language confusion. I should do so well!
 Quoting: Unit3


Thank you for the kind words =)

It's a pleasure to be here.
 Quoting: Chaol





hf
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
1-2/(sq(infinity))
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12/25/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The answer is a triangle.
Unit3

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12/25/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
The answer is a triangle.
 Quoting: 1-2/(sq(infinity)) 981274




pyramid

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 12:40 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
Unit3

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol




Thank you and the very same to you. blwkss


Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in this coming year.



 Quoting: Unit3


hf

rockon
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda





gwdance

blair chorus xmas

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 01:06 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
panoukos

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12/25/2012 01:52 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you Chaol for your clarifications.
Apologies for the long post, which is because I seemed as if I was trying to discredit you on something with my posts, whereas I was trying to elaborate on what you have said, through my own perspective and trying to make obvious, something that apparently isn't so.

It is expectable that somebody who lives in a world like yours, may have only to think of your question above. But in this world we have to deal with the primal question first and that is, "what is the point B?" (which is a question by the way, that wouldn't exist if none has ever told us that there are "points" out there)

Maybe you take it for granted that point B can always be available and handy to anyone of us.

I do understand that once you have articulated (or defined, or even better represented) what point B is, then the subconscious takes over and guide you through to it, making it relative to your experience. You show it the dot to connect it for you. You do that by representing it with a "crazy" symbol and by following some "crazy" rules (the craziest the better) you will eventually see/experience the dot you asked your Genius to show you.
That is understandable (simple) and makes sense to me.

I also understand that I dont have to enter into any game of Q&As afterwards, as to how am i going to experience it, what else i have to do to "help" it etc, etc. No, none of this.

Nevertheless, all my posts about the Q&As refer to the very very basics and even before you appear with the Ec and the Genius.
In this world we are used in questions "what do you desire", "what do you want", "make a wish" and follow "rational", "spiritual", "illegal", or all sorts of methods and ways to achieve it, with hit and miss results.

When you come and say "I will show you a way to experience what you want" with a solid rationale behind it, which comes down to "what you ask is what you (can) get, precisely", you create "confusion" to us, maybe because we are not used in asking precisely ourselves what we want to experience, or because we never thought we had to (like none of us has 3 questions handy to ask the alien tourist who will meet in a bar).

So, your method has revealed to us (or at least to me) that the most important bit each of us has to solve for himself before seeing any value or benefit from what you are saying, is to know "what is it that I ask".

It also seems to be easy for at least 20 recorded successes with the Genius, that is they knew what they asked for. But I risk to say that this is not the rule.

So I do understand you clearly, when you say
"When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious."
Meaning that when we have a "point B" ready, we pass it to the subconscious to do its job.

"We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there."
Sure! all we need is just to name it: "this is the point B, take me there"

"The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective."
Again to the point! Before you represent it, you must know what exactly you are representing.

Therefore, where i see you are helping me (and others) more, is to articulate the point B, which is a waking mind exercise, that is language, that is Q&A, that is words.

And if it is the point B, that will necessarily determine the perspective that we will experience, then the perspective will be subject to the Q&As we chose to ask ourselves before, in order to find it.

If not mistaken, I see you confirming it when you say:
"The way we define things surely affects our experience and the way we see things (and react to them)."
How else do we try to define things if not by (specific to us) Q&As?

or...
"...What if our perspective is shaped from the languages we use?"
if the language we use is made by concepts that we arrived at through Q&A about (our) life and death then how ...
..."we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind."?

or even better when you used an example:
"this is a symbol of my wealth" is less specific than, say, "this is the key that opens the door to my estate in Monaco". With the former, the map is confused because there is no specific perspective.(emphasis mine)

Once we're able to define what it means then we can begin to experience it. But without a picture of what it means it is fairly meaningless."

What you've stated there is exactly as you said to me here:
"...it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious (I never claimed it was, or that I ask questions my subconscious) but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model."
For the model to be effective therefore, it requires a clear definition of "point B".

"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
know thy word
Jesse Sovoda

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12/25/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Chaol


Thank you Chaol for your clarifications.
Apologies for the long post, which is because I seemed as if I was trying to discredit you on something with my posts, whereas I was trying to elaborate on what you have said, through my own perspective and trying to make obvious, something that apparently isn't so.

It is expectable that somebody who lives in a world like yours, may have only to think of your question above. But in this world we have to deal with the primal question first and that is, "what is the point B?" (which is a question by the way, that wouldn't exist if none has ever told us that there are "points" out there)

Maybe you take it for granted that point B can always be available and handy to anyone of us.

I do understand that once you have articulated (or defined, or even better represented) what point B is, then the subconscious takes over and guide you through to it, making it relative to your experience. You show it the dot to connect it for you. You do that by representing it with a "crazy" symbol and by following some "crazy" rules (the craziest the better) you will eventually see/experience the dot you asked your Genius to show you.
That is understandable (simple) and makes sense to me.

I also understand that I dont have to enter into any game of Q&As afterwards, as to how am i going to experience it, what else i have to do to "help" it etc, etc. No, none of this.

Nevertheless, all my posts about the Q&As refer to the very very basics and even before you appear with the Ec and the Genius.
In this world we are used in questions "what do you desire", "what do you want", "make a wish" and follow "rational", "spiritual", "illegal", or all sorts of methods and ways to achieve it, with hit and miss results.

When you come and say "I will show you a way to experience what you want" with a solid rationale behind it, which comes down to "what you ask is what you (can) get, precisely", you create "confusion" to us, maybe because we are not used in asking precisely ourselves what we want to experience, or because we never thought we had to (like none of us has 3 questions handy to ask the alien tourist who will meet in a bar).

So, your method has revealed to us (or at least to me) that the most important bit each of us has to solve for himself before seeing any value or benefit from what you are saying, is to know "what is it that I ask".

It also seems to be easy for at least 20 recorded successes with the Genius, that is they knew what they asked for. But I risk to say that this is not the rule.

So I do understand you clearly, when you say
"When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious."
Meaning that when we have a "point B" ready, we pass it to the subconscious to do its job.

"We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there."
Sure! all we need is just to name it: "this is the point B, take me there"

"The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective."
Again to the point! Before you represent it, you must know what exactly you are representing.

Therefore, where i see you are helping me (and others) more, is to articulate the point B, which is a waking mind exercise, that is language, that is Q&A, that is words.

And if it is the point B, that will necessarily determine the perspective that we will experience, then the perspective will be subject to the Q&As we chose to ask ourselves before, in order to find it.

If not mistaken, I see you confirming it when you say:
"The way we define things surely affects our experience and the way we see things (and react to them)."
How else do we try to define things if not by (specific to us) Q&As?

or...
"...What if our perspective is shaped from the languages we use?"
if the language we use is made by concepts that we arrived at through Q&A about (our) life and death then how ...
..."we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind."?

or even better when you used an example:
"this is a symbol of my wealth" is less specific than, say, "this is the key that opens the door to my estate in Monaco". With the former, the map is confused because there is no specific perspective.(emphasis mine)

Once we're able to define what it means then we can begin to experience it. But without a picture of what it means it is fairly meaningless."

What you've stated there is exactly as you said to me here:
"...it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious (I never claimed it was, or that I ask questions my subconscious) but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model."
For the model to be effective therefore, it requires a clear definition of "point B".

"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos


Thank you. We can know this intellectually, but how is it possible to bridge that belief gap between executing it properly and absolute failure? Acceptance?

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 12/25/2012 02:10 PM
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
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12/25/2012 02:28 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda



"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos


Thank you. We can know this intellectually, but how is it possible to bridge that belief gap between executing it properly and absolute failure? Acceptance?
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda


I think acceptance is huge. When we execute a Genius, there is no way we can know all the variables that need to take place to make what we want to happen. And probably, if we did, we would never want to use one.

That's why I think it's better to make Point B as simple as possible and also make it the side issue...such as the keys to my house on the Riviera rather than a house on the Riviera.


Edit: Btw, what do you mean by failure?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 12/25/2012 02:49 PM
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
:)
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12/25/2012 02:32 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To get from point a to point b you need to travel first to point c in the future, so to be able to create the conditions for point b to be able to happen :)
Unit3

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12/25/2012 02:38 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
To get from point a to point b you need to travel first to point c in the future, so to be able to create the conditions for point b to be able to happen :)
 Quoting: :) 981274




Every perception influences past/present/future, NOW!
"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka
LeKing

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12/25/2012 06:59 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Just a note to extend a warm Happy Christmas message to all of us here on this thread =D

and best new year 2013!
 Quoting: Chaol


Same to you, and everyone else :)

Last Edited by LeKing on 12/25/2012 07:00 PM
Not-Chaol
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12/25/2012 10:27 PM
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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Merry X-mas all. I am here to answer your questions, fire away.

Not-Chaol.





GLP